Naruto Uzumaki!

[Michael]

You said he was the only one....

Having genes, a dojustu and being someone of a prophecy doesn't automatically make you not an underdog.

Exactly this, Most people are to dimwitted to realize this. +Rep

 

[Stxluciferr]

What?

What?

What?

Why is there so much wrong in one thread?

He didn't have kurama sealed inside of him?

He didn't have a large chakra pool and life force that comes with being an Uzumaki?

The bijuu didn't refer to him as the second coming of the old man?

Still failed the exams numerous times because he couldn't learn kagebunshin technique which through hard work became his trademark technique.

Yes he had some struggle early on, but how far he was going to go was while I don't want to say set in stone or guaranteed, his chances were pretty good. And a lot of his so called training was only possible because of the large chakra pool and life force that got passed on to him

 

[Shruikan]

You said he was the only one....

He is the only one who matches many of the users with dojutsu and natural abilites despite him not having any with just hard work not clan techniques or kekkae genkai

Having genes, a dojustu and being someone of a prophecy doesn't automatically make you not an underdog.

The OP was calling him a failure and a underdog at the same time when the two are different terms.But I gave the answer in the context of both combined anyway.He had all the natural abilities and skill that he needed to win all fights and destrory the competiton easily.Heck he mastered jutsus and even created new astounding ones in a pretty short time span.
You could say he was the underdog right till the Haku fight.After that though not really.

And he was a guy destined from the start to save the world and destined to control Kurama too

 

[To Whatever]

He didn't have kurama sealed inside of him?

He didn't have a large chakra pool and life force that comes with being an Uzumaki?

The bijuu didn't refer to him as the second coming of the old man?

Being a Jinchuriki host doesn't = powerful. You're more of a danger to yourself than you anyone else.

Large Chakra pools mean nothing if you're terrible.

If Phil Jackson calls Lebron the 2nd coming of MJ, does that make it true?

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[Wabbit]

Nardo is like banished prince who redeems himself

 

[Stxluciferr]

Being a Jinchuriki host doesn't = powerful. You're more of a danger to yourself than you anyone else.

Large Chakra pools mean nothing if you're terrible.

If Phil Jackson calls Lebron the 2nd coming of MJ, does that make it true?

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Being a jinn doesn't always guarantee success but in Naruto case from moment he began interacting Kurama they had the relationship that if Naruto was in real danger or needed power he would supply it. And before Naruto starting using the chakra cloak which deteriorated his cells, there was no danger to him just accepting chakra

And Naruto wasn't at all terrible, Kurama disrupted his ability to control chakra perfectly but Naruto was still able to use kneed and use chakra like everyone else. And Kurama's disrupting of his chakra didn't hold him back much. In terms how he controlled chakra before and during the CE he did just as well as Sasuke in the tree climbing exercise and could mass produce shadow clones like no one else could. So not only is his chakra controlling not holding him back much but he also has kurama to give him an extra boost or push whenever he needs it.

Naruto may not have inherited Minato's intellectual genius but he did inherit the full of Minato's and Kushina's large chakra. And your right with the analogy

Edit: In fact before Orochimaru hit Naruto with the seal was Kurama even holding Naruto back?

 

[Ansatsuken]

Naruto is not underdog but underfox

 

[Dantee]

Child of prophecy? Lol

 

[To Whatever]

He is the only one who matches many of the users with dojutsu and natural abilities despite him not having any with just hard work not clan techniques or kekkae genkai

You seem to be under the impression that those with KKG and Dojustu don't work hard themselves or that it's easier for them. It isn't. Those clan techniques happen to be the hardest things to learn in the series.


-If Shino had it easy, he wouldn't have to worry about his insects killing him.

-If Hinata had it easy, she wouldn't have had to train so hard.

-If Shikamaru had it easy, he wouldn't have to rely on his intelligence in most fights.

-If Chouji had it easy, he wouldn't have had to use lethal solider pills back in Part 1.



Lee isn't the only one who's an underdog. Not to mention the people above who I listed didn't have someone like Gai on their team to train them.

The only person who was never an underdog was Sasuke. Because he was literally gifted in almost all aspects.

The OP was calling him a failure and a underdog at the same time when the two are different terms.But I gave the answer in the context of both combined anyway.He had all the natural abilities and skill that he needed to win all fights and destrory the competiton easily.Heck he mastered jutsus and even created new astounding ones in a pretty short time span.
You could say he was the underdog right till the Haku fight.After that though not really.

And he was a guy destined from the start to save the world and destined to control Kurama too

Naruto was a failure, labeled by his own peers. He didn't consider himself one. So he worked hard. Eventually he became an underrated underdog by the chuunin arc.

Naruto lacked what others had and due to it he very rarely had shortcuts or something he could rely on.
(You can say Kurama but each time, the seal weakened and it's influence grew stronger to the point it was endangering his life and the people he wanted to protect)

-He isn't a bright as others
-He lacks patience at times
-He can be read like a book when he's being brash
-He's forgetful
-He learns from trial and error (more so than anyone I've seen in the series)

He doesn't have all the natural ability and skill to win all fights. That would only be true if he actually knew his clan's Fūinjutsu

I shouldn't even have to bring up how he won against Kiba and Neji.

The only reason he learned Tajuu Kage Bunshin was because it was a one seal justu. It was just due to the fact that not many people who actually use it effectively because of what it did to your chakra.

Naruto is the most tenacious person in the series. He plays into his large reserves in order to catch up. Using 1,000 shadow clones just to slice a leaf isn't easy. Especially when people his age are already shooting fire out of their mouths and air out of their palms.

Also, He often never gets things right until when it matters the most in which he really proves how he's and underdog in that regard:



He used rasengan to protect tsunade

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He mastered his summoning to protect sasuke and sakura

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He successfully used rasenshuriken because he went berserk with kurama. And went over his max to protect everyone from kakazu

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He trained for Sage Mode which was harder since his reserves are larger than most:

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He nailed KCM and BM to protect the world

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He nailed Tailed Beast Bomb so his comrades wouldn't fall

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But at the end of the day Jiriaya said it best:

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​

Being a jinn doesn't always guarantee success but in Naruto case from moment he began interacting Kurama they had the relationship that if Naruto was in real danger or needed power he would supply it. And before Naruto starting using the chakra cloak which deteriorated his cells, there was no danger to him just accepting chakra

And Naruto wasn't at all terrible, Kurama disrupted his ability to control chakra perfectly but Naruto was still able to use kneed and use chakra like everyone else. And Kurama's disrupting of his chakra didn't hold him back much. In terms how he controlled chakra before and during the CE he did just as well as Sasuke in the tree climbing exercise and could mass produce shadow clones like no one else could. So not only is his chakra controlling not holding him back much but he also has kurama to give him an extra boost or push whenever he needs it.

Naruto may not have inherited Minato's intellectual genius but he did inherit the full of Minato's and Kushina's large chakra. And your right with the analogy

Edit: In fact before Orochimaru hit Naruto with the seal was Kurama even holding Naruto back?

Every jinchuriki has a relationship with their host whether they like it or not.

Mito had it.
Gaara had it.
Bee had it.
Roshi had it.

There was danger in accepting the chakra. You must not know what the purpose of a seal is. The more times he accepted it, the seal became that much weaker. Even Minato knew his seal on Kurama wouldn't last and start deteriorating which was why he left the Key for Naruto and had a one time reinforcement seal.

It did hold him back. He couldn't even water walk. due to what Oro did to him. Also, The Kage bunshins in part one were from Naruto's reserves, not Kurama's.


When he's using Kurama's chakra it becomes red and his clones take influence of the Kyuubi.

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Large Chakra reserves doesn't = Power or skill by the way.​

 

[Ansatsuken]

You seem to be under the impression that those with KKG and Dojustu don't work hard themselves or that it's easier for them. It isn't. Those clan techniques happen to be the hardest things to learn in the series.


-If Shino had it easy, he wouldn't have to worry about his insects killing him.

-If Hinata had it easy, she wouldn't have had to train so hard.

-If Shikamaru had it easy, he wouldn't have to rely on his intelligence in most fights.

-If Chouji had it easy, he wouldn't have had to use lethal solider pills back in Part 1.



Lee isn't the only one who's an underdog. Not to mention the people above who I listed didn't have someone like Gai on their team to train them.

The only person who was never an underdog was Sasuke. Because he was literally gifted in almost all aspects.




Naruto was a failure, labeled by his own peers. He didn't consider himself one. So he worked hard. Eventually he became an underrated underdog by the chuunin arc.

Naruto lacked what others had and due to it he very rarely had shortcuts or something he could rely on.
(You can say Kurama but each time, the seal weakened and it's influence grew stronger to the point it was endangering his life and the people he wanted to protect)

-He isn't a bright as others
-He lacks patience at times
-He can be read like a book when he's being brash
-He's forgetful
-He learns from trial and error (more so than anyone I've seen in the series)

He doesn't have all the natural ability and skill to win all fights. That would only be true if he actually knew his clan's Fūinjutsu

I shouldn't even have to bring up how he won against Kiba and Neji.

The only reason he learned Tajuu Kage Bunshin was because it was a one seal justu. It was just due to the fact that not many people who actually use it effectively because of what it did to your chakra.

Naruto is the most tenacious person in the series. He plays into his large reserves in order to catch up. Using 1,000 shadow clones just to slice a leaf isn't easy. Especially when people his age are already shooting fire out of their mouths and air out of their palms.

Also, He often never gets things right until when it matters the most in which he really proves how he's and underdog in that regard:



He used rasengan to protect tsunade

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He mastered his summoning to protect sasuke and sakura

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He successfully used rasenshuriken because he went berserk with kurama. And went over his max to protect everyone from kakazu

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He trained for Sage Mode which was harder since his reserves are larger than most:

Spoiler

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He nailed KCM and BM to protect the world

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He nailed Tailed Beast Bomb so his comrades wouldn't fall

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

But at the end of the day Jiriaya said it best:

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​

Every jinchuriki has a relationship with their host whether they like it or not.

Mito had it.
Gaara had it.
Bee had it.
Roshi had it.

There was danger in accepting the chakra. You must not know what the purpose of a seal is. The more times he accepted it, the seal became that much weaker. Even Minato knew his seal on Kurama wouldn't last and start deteriorating which was why he left the Key for Naruto and had a one time reinforcement seal.

It did hold him back. He couldn't even water walk. due to what Oro did to him. Also, The Kage bunshins in part one were from Naruto's reserves, not Kurama's.


When he's using Kurama's chakra it becomes red and his clones take influence of the Kyuubi.

Spoiler

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Large Chakra reserves doesn't = Power or skill by the way.​

Yeah even Goku work harder than everyone even though he is Saiyan

Just saiyin.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

There's no such thing as being an underdog when your genes allow you to be god

He only gained the 'underdog' status because his rival also happened to be a god

 

[Ansatsuken]

There's no such thing as being an underdog when your destiny is to surpass a god.

Part 2 crapped on everything Part 1 stood for, Neji would have been disappointed.

Because that he choose to die than live, because he know something not right.XD

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

There's no such thing as being an underdog when your destiny is to surpass a god.

Part 2 crapped on everything Part 1 stood for, Neji would have been disappointed.

Why did you guys never think of destiny before he was called the child of prophecy? Did you think he was a underdog then to? Considering he was the main character of the series.

 

[Zlatán]

He was the Child of prophecy, he was destined to succeed and reunite the bijuus while obtaining their power, he also had powerful connections (being Uzumaki and Ashuras reincarnate) he never was the underdog, that title belongs to someone else, most likely Lee....

 

[Stxluciferr]

Every jinchuriki has a relationship with their host whether they like it or not.

Mito had it.
Gaara had it.
Bee had it.
Roshi had it.

There was danger in accepting the chakra. You must not know what the purpose of a seal is. The more times he accepted it, the seal became that much weaker. Even Minato knew his seal on Kurama wouldn't last and start deteriorating which was why he left the Key for Naruto and had a one time reinforcement seal.

It did hold him back. He couldn't even water walk. due to what Oro did to him. Also, The Kage bunshins in part one were from Naruto's reserves, not Kurama's.


When he's using Kurama's chakra it becomes red and his clones take influence of the Kyuubi.
​

​

That's completely irrelevant, you were speaking on the dangers of being a jinn and how it held Naruto back. I agreed that being a jinn doesn't always guarantee success because of compatibility issues. But because of Naruto's large life force that's not something he had to deal with it. And the seal weakening over time didn't play any role in how well Naruto was or wasn't doing at that period, so accepting chakra had no consequences that had the effect of stalling Naruto's progress at the time.

Exactly Kurama didn't get into Naruto's way in till after Orochimaru hit him with he Eight Trigram Seal, which prevented him from learning how to do things like walk on water. After the seal was undone Kurama didn't stop Naruto from learning how to do so. And this next part is again not relevant; my initial points that you tried to shoot down was that Naruto having a large chakra pool due to his genes and Kurama helped him. Regardless of if he's able to do so because of Kurama or because of his uzumaki descent it still played a role in furthering him​

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[Natsu Shazneel]

He was the Child of prophecy, he was destined to succeed and reunite the bijuus while obtaining their power, he also had powerful connections (being Uzumaki and Ashuras reincarnate) he never was the underdog, that title belongs to someone else, most likely Lee....

If a old toad told you that you are destined to be in a band. Would you believe it?

 

[Shruikan]

Uh yeah I am typing this from my iPad so the next argument may be delayed a little lol

You seem to be under the impression that those with KKG and Dojustu don't work hard themselves or that it's easier for them. It isn't. Those clan techniques happen to be the hardest things to learn in the series.​

Except that is to master a gamechanging ability which they already possess thanks to their backgrounds.Lee was able to match some of these characters dspite not having ANY of these natural abilities.He was able to fight on par with them from nothing.They are able to fight on par with him after mastering a clan/natural ability.Theres a difference to start from nothing and to get to where you are rather than being told "Yeah you possess ABC natural quality now you just gotta have to master it"

Lee isn't the only one who's an underdog.

He is the only one who isnt naturally gifted with any ability yet fights on par starting from zero

Not to mention the people above who I listed didn't have someone like Gai on their team to train them.

And many people dont have Legendary teachers as their god fathers

The only person who was never an underdog was Sasuke.

Sasuke was a underdog in the Itachi fight but from a bigger picture to me both Naruto and Sasuke are not under dogs

Naruto was a failure, labeled by his own peers. He didn't consider himself one. So he worked hard. Eventually he became an underrated underdog by the chuunin arc.

First in the forest of death he faced Orochimaru who he again turned Kurama mode on in.Then later on he beat Kiba fairly.After that he was taught how to somewhat control Kurama's chakra by Jiraiaya.Note,there arent many people who can get access to training by one of the Legendary Sannin yet Naruto got access to it.And he beat Neji using Kurama's chakra which the moment he used made him stop being the under dog as he became just like the others who rely on natural gifted strengths to win.And yes he still has to train to master that chakra I agree
And IIRC the one tailed form and above is dangerous to his body.Just using the Kurama chakra like in the Neji fight isnt dangerous to him

Naruto lacked what others had and due to it he very rarely had shortcuts or something he could rely on.

Since he had massive chakra reserves he was able to shortcut his way in the Rasen Shuriken training and quickly near catch up to Sasuke just using clones.Kakashi said Naruto was the only one who could learn moves that way and he himself couldnt because of low chakra reserves.He caught up to Sasuke who had trained for 3 years (i dont recall the exact timeskip) in just 2-3 days(dont kno the duration of the training) because of his new jutsu and training.

Using shadow clones is a "Cheat" way of training.And he also has naturally gifted staminas to maintain them for a long period

He isn't a bright as others

Yet he demonstrates himself as cut from a different cloth when it comes to actual battles.He isnt as smart in exams,yes but his fights are an entirely different story

This is straight from the wiki

While headstrong and often acting without thinking to ultimately come off as somewhat dense, Naruto's years as a prankster acquired a cunning imagination that is useful in battle. He is a remarkable tactile learner, able to learn better through executing a task rather than theorising about it. Once they see him in action, even the likes of the Second Hokage revise their thoughts about his intellect. Although Naruto instinctively knows the mechanics behind techniques he uses, he still gets easily confused if someone verbally explains the mechanics.

Naruto can formulate multi-step plans and even backup plans in the thick of battle. His strategies typically involve shadow clones: he may direct his opponent's attentions towards one of his clones to disguise his own movements; he may transform them into objects or other individuals for surprise attacks; he may make himself seem predictable by creating a pattern, just to throw them off by breaking it. Naruto is rather observant, able to notice details others may overlook and subsequently take advantage of it. Even when given new information, he can act quickly

^^That aint how underdogs are

He lacks patience at times

Some of the jutsus he masters arent possible if you are not patient

-He can be read like a book when he's being brash

No one can tell what he is thinking when he is serious

-He's forgetful

Yeah

-He learns from trial and error (more so than anyone I've seen in the series)

He mostly experiments with clones which he can use such a huge number of because of his chakra reserves and stamina.

He doesn't have all the natural ability and skill to win all fights.

He has an exceptional life force and naturally great chakra reserves which help him in fights as he is a Uzumaki.In the Pain fight the moment he transformed back from kyuubi mode,even Deva Path was exhausted yet Naruto was completely fine and summoned a whole field of clones to beat him and Katsuyu concluded he was "only slightly fatigued"
He is able to survive grievious injuries too

That would only be true if he actually knew his clan's Fūinjutsu

Okay But he knew how to use the seal's key after receiving Gerotora, and later resealed Kurama after he separated a majority of chakra from the fox.When accessing Shukaku's power, Naruto can use its natural cursed seal markings to bind targets

The only reason he learned Tajuu Kage Bunshin was because it was a one seal justu. It was just due to the fact that not many people who actually use it effectively because of what it did to your chakra.

Many just cant use it in the first place because of low chakra.Part 1 Kakashi admitted to Naruto at the bridge that Naruto could summon clones and he himself couldnt as he doesnt have the chakra to do it

Naruto is the most tenacious person in the series. He plays into his large reserves in order to catch up.

And will a normal underdog be so naturally gifted in the first place as to have

1)Chakra Prowess and Life Force as well as exceptional stamina
2)An living entity whose chakra he easily can rely on although he has to master it
3)Being told that he holds the key to the world's solutions
4)Being a descendant of "Jesus" of NV to speak

A true underdog does not have so many natural talents

Using 1,000 shadow clones just to slice a leaf isn't easy. Especially when people his age are already shooting fire out of their mouths and air out of their palms.

He can use those clones in the first place because of his lineage so it doesnt make him much different than those people who master the natural abilities they already have

He used rasengan to protect tsunade

Rasengan was a more complex jutsu than Chidori to learn.I cant find the scan but Jiriaya tells Naruto that learning the jutsu makes the chidori look like nothing therefore its not surpirsing that he took a few more tries to learn it.

He mastered his summoning to protect sasuke and sakura

A real underdog or a failure generally never finds access to high profile teachers to teach something like that in the first place

He successfully used rasenshuriken because he went berserk with kurama.

Okay

He trained for Sage Mode which was harder since his reserves are larger than most

He was able to master a technique which Jiraiya(in imperfect mode) and Orochimaru despite having lower reserves than him couldnt master in an entire life time in just one week.That ways a lot of how skilled he is in tha trespect

He nailed KCM and BM to protect the world

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He nailed Tailed Beast Bomb so his comrades wouldn't fall

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But at the end of the day Jiriaya said it best:

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​

[/B]

The basic foundation of all these things proves he aint a underdog as people dont have that many talents to master to begin with.They start from zero and work their way up based just on their own merit not god abilities they needed to master

 

[To Whatever]

That's completely irrelevant, you were speaking on the dangers of being a jinn and how it held Naruto back. I agreed that being a jinn doesn't always guarantee success because of compatibility issues. But because of Naruto's large life force that's not something he had to deal with it. And the seal weakening over time didn't play any role in how well Naruto was or wasn't doing at that period, so accepting chakra had no consequences that had the effect of stalling Naruto's progress at the time.

Exactly Kurama didn't get into Naruto's way in till after Orochimaru hit him with he Eight Trigram Seal, which prevented him from learning how to do things like walk on water. After the seal was undone Kurama didn't stop Naruto from learning how to do so. And this next part is again not relevant; my initial points that you tried to shoot down was that Naruto having a large chakra pool due to his genes and Kurama helped him. Regardless of if he's able to do so because of Kurama or because of his uzumaki descent it still played a role in furthering him

So Naruto's large life force made it okay that Kurama was shortening it and slowly gaining control over his pysche.

It's only after Orochimaru used the seal, because Kurama didn't start actually damaging him until VOTE. Before then it was slow creep. Each time he used Kurama's chakra it weakened th e seal further increasing the danger of it becoming undone. Which is why Yamato was assigned to Team 7 in part 2. Had the seal been weakened too much due to Naruto he would have never had the arsenal or ability to become an perfect jin.

The seal weakening did play a role in how he was progressing. Did you not read when Jiriaya was training him on summoning? Did you not read the Rasenshuriken training or the Sage Mode training?

 

[Zlatán]

If a old toad told you that you are destined to be in a band. Would you believe it?

The child of prophecy theory was mentioned twice, once by the old toad theorising the child of prophecy would achieve peace and greatness while the other by Hagoromo who onced dreamed a blond kid would eventually reunite the bijuus

At the end both prophecies became true

 

[Stxluciferr]

So Naruto's large life force made it okay that Kurama was shortening it and slowly gaining control over his pysche.

It's only after Orochimaru used the seal, because Kurama didn't start actually damaging him until VOTE. Before then it was slow creep. The seal weakening did play a role in how he was progressing. Did you not read when Jiriaya was training him on summoning?

No, the point is it eating his life force didn't hamper his success at the time

The slow creep is answered in the above. And he was still able to summon bunta during the training, so with so much in his favor short term, and longterm prophecy's of destiny being proclaimed of him, how when looking back can we call him an underdog