Sage Mode > Fully Realized Kyuubi

[Rogue Pit]

The Reasons I make my claim are because

-Sage Mode like any technique is only as good as the user. Naruto was just learning Sage mode against pain and we can see his progression of mastering it increases as the war continues as evidence from the size of his rasengans.
Kyuubi's Chakra has a limit. Naruto can get as much sage energy as he can hold. I'm sure he can handle more than 2 clones.

-Against a Yin & Yang complete Kyuubi AND Madara, the first hokage was able to subdue the duo with solely his sage techniques.

-Naruto even resorts to Sage Chakra to counteract Sasuke's Ultimate force from his Indra's Arrow technique.

-With Kyuubi's Chakra, Naruto is able to detect evil intent. With the Senjutsu of the So6P, he is able to sense entities from other dimensions. (Madara's Limbo)

-Lastly, it is harnessing the power of nature itself which is what every being on that plain of existence extents from..


Getting a bit off topic.
Kaguya and the Tree/fruit/juubi contained the powers of hyuga(eyes), Uzumaki(chakra), Uchiha(eyes), and Senju(chakra).
I think these 4 methods shape our reality. Hyuga our physical existence and shape. Uzumaki energy of life/death connection to souls. Uchiha reality, and fantasy, genjutsu origin. and Senju our natural order of the world.

Senjutsu is the energy of mother nature.. a single tailed beast is frail in comparison.

Discuss.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Make me. :scorps:

 

[lndra]

This is a really great thread dude. Especially the last part about the four clans and their dimensions.

Good shit

 

[BenjerminGaye]

If the tech is only as good as the user how does that make it superior to kurama?


Thread over.

 

[Phoenix110]

Might have a point then maybe not

 

[Umari Senju]

I like where this is going :scorps:

 

[Seventh Sama]

I disagree. But good explanation.

 

[Sir Blades]

Nope, but good explanation.

 

[Styles]

Hashirama was a special case his mokuton had the ability to suppress Bijuu chakra and Bijuu's

 

[KidGamer65]

If the tech is only as good as the user how does that make it superior to kurama?


Thread over.

This is what it boils down to in the end.

 

[Amaterasu]

I disagree but great explanation tho'

Kurama is limitless chakra

 

[KingHashirama]

Nature energy in general is better than Kurama's chakra. However, the amount of Nature energy is dependent on the user.

Senjutsu chakra the size of Kurama's chakra > Kurama's chakra

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I disagree but great explanation tho'

Kurama is limitless chakra

no limits fallacy disproven a looong time ago

 

[Venomous Cobra]

original way of thinking......

 

[Rikodou Mode]

If the tech is only as good as the user how does that make it superior to kurama?


Thread over.

Because Ashura is obviously superior to Kurama there's no denying it. Prime SM Naruto without Kurama is as strong as 9 bijuu.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Uzumaki = Hagoromo's body -- Senju = Juubi's body

Hyuuga = Kaguya's eyes -- Uchiha = Juubi's eyes + Hagormo's chakra

And btw, RSM is Hagoromo's Sage Mode

 

[Sage konohamaru]

I may agree only if sage mode could last like 30 min or so

 

[Rogue Pit]

This is what it boils down to in the end.

I disagree but great explanation tho'

[Kurama is limitless chakra]


What it eventually boils down to is the vessel the energy is stored.
KURAMA HAS ON Multiple occurrences ran out of a chakra. Even had to hibernate during fight with sasuke.
Not Limitless.

The facts of the manga remain Naruto is a single body which can only hold a certain amount of energy. That energy has vastly increased over the series but it still runs out and he has to charge back up. What we learn is that Sage Jutsu is the most effective way of recuperating lost chakra, technically naruto is limitless. Naruto is like a vessel for the spirit bomb.

Sage Jutsu even provides more Chakra control and it may not be raw speed but his reaction time is at his peak. When fighting in the War against the 3rd Raikage naruto's Kyuubi RasenShuriken had no effect against him despite having elemental advantages. It takes Naruto to realize he could only damage himself and reaction with pinpoint timing to disrupt the Raikage.

Note that the Peak of Naruto's Kyuubi Power is solely against Juubito which needed the combine effort of EMS Sasuke.
Once Madara shows up.... well, were there right now in the anime but SPOILER!
---They are nowhere near a match for single-Rinnegan Madara... let alone JuubiDara!!!
They both needed Senjutsu upgrades that unlocked their unique potentials.


KYUUBI CAN'T Defeat Juubi, Juubito, Juuidara, and definitely not Kaguya.
It was all the Sage training.

Sage konohamaru - "I may agree only if sage mode could last like 30 min or so"
Let's look at all the sages we know..
The first hokage we're not sure of, and because of his special mokuton could vary the effect.

Jiraya theoretically had limitless time of Sage power when combined with the 2 old frog geezers.

We do not know how long Minato could sustain it, he also says he doesnt use it often.

The Sage of 6 paths i guess should be excluded.. Also no info on Ashura's powers.

Lastly Naruto he indeed could only hold Sage mode for a short time, he also uses up most of the chakra in his rasengans.
- Pre Pain Arc he was able to summon 2 clones and have them gather chakra, then send it back to him.

I'm sure at the very least, Post-War Naruto could have 3-4 clones holding Sage Chakra for him. I believe it just differs his attention.
All in all Kyuubi rarely has saved naruto from any hazards, he mainly causes them.. but naruto's sage mode has proved even more versatile than his Rasengan variations.

 

[ShiroT]

Hashirama was a special case his mokuton had the ability to suppress Bijuu chakra and Bijuu's

seems people forgot he had that ability . .

 

[Rogue Pit]

seems people forgot he had that ability . .

Being that as it may, it's still a testament to the potential of Sage jutsu. Him combining it with his kekkei genkai is very similar to naruto combining sage chakra with his wind variation of chakra rotation.

The Potential is Limitless, The Sages are referred to as Gods.