[Discussion] Manga Fact Black Zetsu lied

davidou

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Oh because she knew who ashura was right? @bold You're just grasping straws with these statements. Minato a senju, really? something like that would've been mentioned in the story already.
Statements?Funny young boy , I'm talking about possibilities , I'm disproving , not proving.

You implied that Kushina said that their common ancestor was a Senju.
I just answered that she didn't , and your argument has no more value.

Find the proof that Minato isn't a Senju , nothing else is relevant , I would be happy if you find that proof , until you do that (I can't) , you are forced to agree that Uzumaki may not come from Senju.

Okay, She's a yin user so? That doesn't mean she can manipulate it.
OK , you are in deny , so be it.
 
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Honord Sage

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What is there to argue? The Senju predated the Uzumaki. The Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju. This means the Uzumaki have Senju blood in them. The Uzumaki coming from the Senju is not incorrect to say the least.
Wrong Kushina said distant cousins not close plus Kushina said the Uzumaki mediated between the Senju and the Uchiha that lead to the village creation.When Kushina helped Her son Naruto tame Kurama She told Naruto the Uzumaki story of the clan unlike the Village that lied to Naruto telling Him He was a nobody and that He had no Clan.
 

Seventh Sama

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Bro it is because he is Ashura transmigrant.
Ik but the uzumaki are said to have powerful lifeforces like the senju does.

Statements?Funny young boy , I'm talking about possibilities , I'm disproving , not proving.

You implied that Kushina said that their common ancestor was a Senju.
I just answered that she didn't , and your argument has no more value.

Find the proof that Minato isn't a Senju , nothing else is relevant , I would be happy if you find that proof , until you do that (I can't) , you are forced to agree that Uzumaki may not come from Senju.



OK , you are in deny , so be it.
Your possibilities are nothing but speculation. I was implying that ashura was the common ancestor and okay. His last name is "namikaze". Your argument on minato being a senju has no water similarities in fighting styles doesn't equate being related.
 

Amaterasu

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Ik but the uzumaki are said to have powerful lifeforces like the senju does.
They are said to be strong physically, they could seal beasts in them (Kyuubi in Mito, Kushina and Naruto), but they don't have powerful lifeforces like the senju does, majority of senjus couldn't seal bijuus in their body that's why Hashirama sealed Kyuubi in his wife Mito.
 

davidou

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Your possibilities are nothing but speculation.
Yes , but possible ones.

I was implying that ashura was the common ancestor and okay.
You agree that the scan you brought is not a proof that Uzumaki come from Senju.

His last name is "namikaze". Your argument on minato being a senju has no water similarities in fighting styles doesn't equate being related.
You could agree , deny or prove that it is impossible.You choose to deny the possibility.Worst choice.
 

Seventh Sama

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They are said to be strong physically, they could seal beasts in them (Kyuubi in Mito, Kushina and Naruto), but they don't have powerful lifeforces like the senju does, majority of senjus couldn't seal bijuus in their body that's why Hashirama sealed Kyuubi in his wife Mito.
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This scan says otherwise.
 

Floydical

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Wrong Kushina said distant cousins not close plus Kushina said the Uzumaki mediated between the Senju and the Uchiha that lead to the village creation.When Kushina helped Her son Naruto tame Kurama She told Naruto the Uzumaki story of the clan unlike the Village that lied to Naruto telling Him He was a nobody and that He had no Clan.
When did I say close cousins? I specifically said distantly related. Whether they are distantly related or not, they share DNA. Are you denying this fact? I don't believe the Uzumaki are direct decendants of Ashura, but I do believe Uzumaki do share some heritage with Senju, meaning they share DNA and thus are related, distantly of course.

*sigh*
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(plural )

  1. A person who is to another through a , and not merely by or .

Please tell me how it makes sense to you that naruto & nagato are considered to be from the senju lineage but other uzumaki aren't?
Its time to squash the bug. Distantly related and direct descendants are two completely different animals. You likely don't get this because direct bloodlines [descendants] don't really exist in the real world. Direct bloodline basically means you are the offspring of 2 parents that are part of the same lineage. This would be likened to both your father and mother being related, like cousins for instance. Obviously mankind has learned over time that marrying your cousin can cause mutations in your DNA, and this is why these practices don't regularly exist.

In the world of Naruto, clans are of the same bloodline. This means that all adults in the Uchiha clan were some form of cousin, be it distant or not, so they were all directly related. Considering the fact that Uzumaki and Senju do not share a clan name, that means they are not directly related. What it means is that the Uzumaki clan was an offshoot of a Senju marrying outside the clan.

Its like this, a Senju marries outside the clan and has children. These children also marry outside the clan, beginning to separate their own heritage from the Senju. Over time, this new family unit breaks off but then grows large enough that their immediate relations begin interbreeding. At that point they have created their own clan. That clan was the Uzumaki. At this point, they are related to the Senju but are not 100% Senju. Neither are they directly descended from Ashura, while the Senju are.
 
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We have no idea were the Uzumaki originate from.

The distant cousin remark actually would have made more sense if they were offsprings from Hamura's line like the Hyuuga. Both brothers fathering two strong clans, one with eyes the other one with a body kekkai genkai, a nice symmetry.

They are related so there are only three possible solutions:
The lines separated before Kaguya, at the two brothers or later from the Senju.

Another big problem is that we don't have any real idea about the Senju Kekkai Genkai. The whole body of the Sage thing is rather vague and was never explained in detail.
 

Seventh Sama

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When did I say close cousins? I specifically said distantly related. Whether they are distantly related or not, they share DNA. Are you denying this fact? I don't believe the Uzumaki are direct decendants of Ashura, but I do believe Uzumaki do share some heritage with Senju, meaning they share DNA and thus are related, distantly of course.



Its time to squash the bug. Distantly related and direct descendants are two completely different animals. You likely don't get this because direct bloodlines [descendants] don't really exist in the real world. Direct bloodline basically means you are the offspring of 2 parents that are part of the same lineage. This would be likened to both your father and mother being related, like cousins for instance. Obviously mankind has learned over time that marrying your cousin can cause mutations in your DNA, and this is why these practices don't regularly exist.

In the world of Naruto, clans are of the same bloodline. This means that all adults in the Uchiha clan were some form of cousin, be it distant or not, so they were all directly related. Considering the fact that Uzumaki and Senju do not share a clan name, that means they are not directly related. What it means is that the Uzumaki clan was an offshoot of a Senju marrying outside the clan.

Its like this, a Senju marries outside the clan and has children. These children also marry outside the clan, beginning to separate their own heritage from the Senju. Over time, this new family unit breaks off but then grows large enough that their immediate relations begin interbreeding. At that point they have created their own clan. That clan was the Uzumaki. At this point, they are related to the Senju but are not 100% Senju. Neither are they directly descended from Ashura, while the Senju are.
Tl;dr

Deny.
That's their solution when they are in a corner , poor young boy.
You still haven't "debunked" my points on the uzumaki having a powerful life force like the senju. What other clans in the naruto world share a trait like that besides the senju?
 

Floydical

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Ahh that's too bad. Bottom line is that clans like the Senju are more closely related than cousins. It would be on the order of aunts and uncles marrying and having kids. Considering the Uzumaki is a different clan means they are a branch of Senju that married into other families. Once this new offshoot of Senju grew large enough, they began interbreeding and formed a new clan, the Uzumaki. Technically the Uzumaki and Senju are distant cousins, but they are not the same bloodline. This means Uzumaki are not direct descendants of Ashura.

One place you could read up on the matter:



In reality, the post of mine you quoted is not exactly right. Instead, as I've modified here, members of a clan are more closely related than cousins would be. It would be likened to royal bloodlines of the past. Being cousins implies an aunt or uncle marrying outside the family. In a Narutoverse clan, they are marrying someone of the same family.
 

Seventh Sama

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Ahh that's too bad. Bottom line is that clans like the Senju are more closely related than cousins. It would be on the order of aunts and uncles marrying and having kids. Considering the Uzumaki is a different clan means they are a branch of Senju that married into other families. Once this new offshoot of Senju grew large enough, they began interbreeding and formed a new clan, the Uzumaki. Technically the Uzumaki and Senju are distant cousins, but they are not the same bloodline. This means Uzumaki are not direct descendants of Ashura.

One place you could read up on the matter:



In reality, the post of mine you quoted is not exactly right. Instead, as I've modified here, members of a clan are more closely related than cousins would be. It would be likened to royal bloodlines of the past. Being cousins implies an aunt or uncle marrying outside the family. In a Narutoverse clan, they are marrying someone of the same family.
Alright then, I can agree that the uzumaki are an offshoot.
 

davidou

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You still haven't "debunked" my points on the uzumaki having a powerful life force like the senju. What other clans in the naruto world share a trait like that besides the senju?
You think an exemple is an argument , funny young boy in deny.
It's like saying Ronaldo has a white shirt , I have a white shirt , so I am Ronaldo.
It's just stupid thinking.
I did it 2 times , here is a third time just for you : Lifeforce doesn't mean Senju , exemple easily debunked , will you understand this time or deny?.


Here is a scenario , a speculation (that I'm not able to disprove , so the solution does exist until you disprove it) , where Uzumaki are not descendants of Ashura and still distant cousins of every Senju:

-Goddess Kaguya had her 2 childs with a human with red hair.
-The human with red hair , had at least one brother with red hair , that has at least one child with red hair , and this child became very close to Hagoromo , they are direct cousins and friends , one is a human , one is a god.
-Later this human got the ability to use ninshuu , Hagoromo created a chakra network in his body.
-He later got at least one child that he called Uzumaki , this child is a distant cousin of Hagoromo's children Ashura and Indra.

Uzumaki would be a distant cousin of Ashura , and every Uzumaki would be distant blood related to every Senju.
 
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Seventh Sama

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You think an exemple is an argument , funny young boy in deny.
It's like saying Ronaldo has a white shirt , I have a white shirt , so I am Ronaldo.
It's just stupid thinking.
I did it 2 times , here is a third time just for you : Lifeforce doesn't mean Senju , exemple easily debunked , will you understand this time or deny?.


Here is a scenario were Uzumaki are not descendants of Ashura and still cousins of the Senju:

-Goddess Kaguya had her 2 childs with a human with red hair.
-The human with red hair had at least one brother with red hair that has at least one child with red hair , and this child became very close to Hagoromo (the son of the brother of his father , his cousin) , they are cousins and friends , one is a human , one is a god.
-Later this human got the ability to use ninshuu , Hagoromo created a chakra network in his body.
-He later got at least one child that he called Uzumaki , this child is a distant cousin of Hagoromo's children.
Uzumaki would be a distant cousin of Ashura , and every Uzumaki would be distant blood related to every Senju
.
Nice fanfic. Ashura can only transmigrant in his descendants or do you think ashura can transmigrant in anybody?
 

davidou

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Nice fanfic. Ashura can only transmigrant in his descendants or do you think ashura can transmigrant in anybody?
It wasn't said in the manga , should you reread it?
Yes , cause you state something that wasn't stated in the manga. That's enough to bring your point down , but I want to do it a 2nd time:
Even if Ashura has to transmigrate into his descendance , Minato CAN BE a Senju , so...
 
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Seventh Sama

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It wasn't said in the manga , should you reread it?
Yes , cause you state something that wasn't stated in the manga. That's enough to bring your point down , but I want to do it a 2nd time:
Even if Ashura has to transmigrate into his descendance , Minato CAN BE a Senju , so...
Well, According to the databook that uzumaki came from hagoromo.
達…
The Konoha Senju Clan and the Uzushio Vortex Clan are ninjas of distant blood relation…
千手一族の遠縁(とうえん)にあたるう ずまき一族も、六道仙人の一跡(いっ� �� ��き)にあたるとい えるだろう。
The Vortex Clan, a distant relative of the Senju Clan, could also be said to be a lineage of the Rikudou Hermit

I wonder which one of his sons they came from. :rolleyes:
 
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