Senju's missing depiction of "bad".

[Romy9]

Same thing almost. After all the shit Nagato went through, he was in a pretty dark place though.

I guess we can count him then, yeah. Although the Rinnegan part rings Uchiha's help. I wanted a Senju who strayed from the patha nd tried to do everything alone with Indra's mindset. But I guess that's too much asking.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

I guess we can count him then, yeah. Although the Rinnegan part rings Uchiha's help. I wanted a Senju who strayed from the patha nd tried to do everything alone with Indra's mindset. But I guess that's too much asking.

He couldn't really help that though since they were implanted when he was younger, as far as I know..

Idk. I think a rogue senju would get solo'd too easily since Ashura's peeps are supposed to get power via teamwork and hard training. Senju also seems to just have one type of power each, meaning they have weakness. When an Uchiha/Indra individual goes rogue, they get power ups from family and training in more areas it seems.

I didn't have time to think this through as I'm rushing and probably unintentionally rustled some jimmies there but I gotta go.

 

[Michael]

The only evil "Senju" introduced was Nagato Uzumaki, however he repented for his sins and accepted NaruJesus as his personal savior.

 

[shelke]

they were exaggerating. Specially Hashirama whose personality simply cannot decipher what he was doing.

That is not how exaggeration in dialogues works. What can we not decipher? His policies spiraled out of control and got the clan killed.

 

[KingHashirama]

If we count the Uzumakis, yeah. Although he was controlled beyond belief.

Nagato counts as Senju for Madara.

 

[Romy9]

That is not how exaggeration in dialogues works. What can we not decipher? His policies spiraled out of control and got the clan killed.

Hashirama couldn't decipher what he was doing. The man was willing to die for Madara despite him being a total douche, so to speak. Tobirama was logical and reasonable. He put it before emotions and wanted to assure the future safety for the village because he knew about "Uchiha's hatred". It was all justified.

 

[KingHashirama]

Hashirama couldn't decipher what he was doing. The man was willing to die for Madara despite him being a total douche, so to speak. Tobirama was logical and reasonable. He put it before emotions and wanted to assure the future safety for the village because he knew about "Uchiha's hatred". It was all justified.

But what Hashirama was trying to prevent was the same thing Tobirama was trying to prevent. Had Hashirama killed Madara (the man who talks about peace and etc), does it mean Uchiha still would've signed the treaty?

 

[Romy9]

But what Hashirama was trying to prevent was the same thing Tobirama was trying to prevent. Had Hashirama killed Madara (the man who talks about peace and etc), does it mean Uchiha still would've signed the treaty?

I was talking about the fact that Hashirama wanted to die in order for Madara to see how serious he was about the alliance. He was too good-hearted. He couldn't see past his emotions. That's why Tobirama was the logical and calculated one.

 

[shelke]

Hashirama couldn't decipher what he was doing. The man was willing to die for Madara despite him being a total douche, so to speak. Tobirama was logical and reasonable. He put it before emotions and wanted to assure the future safety for the village because he knew about "Uchiha's hatred". It was all justified.

Decipher what? The guy was going against the 'equality precepts' of the treaty. Madara being a douche is nothing but an opinion. He had every right to ensure the safety of his clan. Madara was always right about Tobirama and his policies. It's funny how the predictions he made more than half a century ago turned out to be correct in the future.

Tobirama being logical and reasonable is again your opinion. Ostracizing one clan and marginalizing them isn't logicality or reasonable thinking. What hatred? That was nothing but his hypothesis, proven wrong through BZ at the end of the manga. The Uchihas were following the Tablet.

As far as hatred is concerned, then Tobirama never let go of his and made sure they never had the reigns of the village in their hands. I wonder who the real douche in this entire scenario is.

 

[Romy9]

Decipher what? The guy was going against the 'equality precepts' of the treaty. Madara being a douche is nothing but an opinion. He had every right to ensure the safety of his clan. Madara was always right about Tobirama and his policies. It's funny how the predictions he made more than half a century ago turned out to be correct in the future.

Tobirama being logical and reasonable is again your opinion. Ostracizing one clan and marginalizing them isn't logicality or reasonable thinking. What hatred? That was nothing but his hypothesis, proven wrong through BZ at the end of the manga. The Uchihas were following the Tablet.

As far as hatred is concerned, then Tobirama never let go of his and made sure they never had the reigns of the village in their hands. I wonder who the real douche in this entire scenario is.

I was talking about the fact that Hashirama wanted to die in order for Madara to see how serious he was about the alliance. He was too good-hearted. He couldn't see past his emotions. That's why Tobirama was the logical and calculated one. He made those predictions exactly because he knew how Uchihas operate, as well as how Tobirama knew. What Madara truly meant that time is the fact that Senju and Uchiha would never peacefully co-exist because of their hatred. If I were Tobirama, I would be cautious of their ill-nature too.

It's an opinion of anyone who wants to ensure a peaceful living inside a village/city/nation. "Hatred" is a metaphor for Uchiha's will being prone to go unstable once they lose a loved one. Madara is the perfect example of that. And what do you need to instigate a coup, others following you? A single man whom others are willing to follow.

Tobirama never hated Uchihas. You actually have his exact quote in the chapter. He was just cautious of their nature. Which every reasonable leader would be were he in the same position.

 

[shelke]

I was talking about the fact that Hashirama wanted to die in order for Madara to see how serious he was about the alliance. He was too good-hearted. He couldn't see past his emotions. That's why Tobirama was the logical and calculated one. He made those predictions exactly because he knew how Uchihas operate, as well as how Tobirama knew. What Madara truly meant that time is the fact that Senju and Uchiha would never peacefully co-exist because of their hatred. If I were Tobirama, I would be cautious of their ill-nature too.

It's an opinion of anyone who wants to ensure a peaceful living inside a village/city/nation. "Hatred" is a metaphor for Uchiha's will being prone to go unstable once they lose a loved one. Madara is the perfect example of that. And what do you need to instigate a coup, others following you? A single man whom others are willing to follow.

Tobirama never hated Uchihas. You actually have his exact quote in the chapter. He was just cautious of their nature. Which every reasonable leader would be were he in the same position.

Tobirama faced Sasuke and without knowing where he stood, "You are an Uchiha? No wonder you are with the enemy." The rest of his flip-flopping doesn't concern me. As every individual no matter how worse his stance is, would claim otherwise.

 

[KingHashirama]

I was talking about the fact that Hashirama wanted to die in order for Madara to see how serious he was about the alliance. He was too good-hearted. He couldn't see past his emotions. That's why Tobirama was the logical and calculated one.

You can't kill yourself without seeing your emotions.

Tobirama was the one who was trying to kill Madara out of rage.

 

[Remedy]

Interesting thread as always Romy9.

If you look at the curse of hatred through a vague telescope as something that only fell on the Uchihas to obtain power, then yes, there weren't any Senju that sought after that, seeing as that Uchiha were the only clan who could decipher the tablet, which was the main subjugator for the quest of hatred in the first place.

But If you put a large enough microscope on the curse of hatred, it was much broader than presented to us. BZ fooled both clans to hate & fight each other, you had Senju in the name of hatred slaughter Uchiha to avenge a killed brother, sister, friend etc. as the same for Uchiha. The curse of hatred was a elaborate plot by BZ to prevent the Sages will of his sons achieving peace together, to have them and their lineages fight each other for ages. It would be fair to say Butsuma Senju fell in that loop of hatred. We know Ashura was objective enough to see through the hatred and try to promote peace & no quarreling with his brother, and there was Hashirama would had the same notion, and Tobirama who was emotionally detached and looked at everything from a logical point of view. By the time Tsunade was born, clan quarreling was over, and the village was so, she she didn't grow up in the loop. All in all, my point is there were Senju that fell under the curse of hatred, but it wasn't to gain power, it was through manipulation to keep the loop going and not letting it die out.

 

[Dantee]

Boring clan is boring.

 

[Narutohokage324]

I think the Senju would of been more interesting if Kishimoto actually developed them and gave them all a KKG.