Zabuza and Hokage Kakashi vs 3T Madara

ATD

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Location : Zabuza vs Kakashi (Part 1)
Distance : 100 meters
Intel: Team 1 only knows that they are going to fight madara uchiha.
Conditions: Zabuza wields the Kubikiribōchō, Madara is alive and wields his scythe
Restrictions : Kyubi, Gunbai

i know, i favored team 1 , but i am still not sure whether they are able to take him down or not.
I want to hear your opinions.
 
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MadaraReturns

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not sure whether they are able to take him down or not?

you should ask if they would be able to launch their brutal deaths on tv
 

ATD

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not sure whether they are able to take him down or not?

you should ask if they would be able to launch their brutal deaths on tv

come on, hidden mist and two clone feint users would give 3T Madara a good fight.
Genjutsu is useless, Katon is countered with suiton.
Madara is superior in taijutsu and speed, but he has to face 2 opponents.
Get the wank out of here and make an argument.
 

KidGamer65

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Madara obliterates them with very little difficulty.

-Shunshin they can't react to.

-Katon they can't evade.

-Can't beat him in close combat due to superior speed, strength and skill.

If Zabuza tries silent killing, Madara intercepts him, and obliterates him. Or he just evaporates the whole mist and kills the users with his Gouka Mekkyaku.
 

Xlad

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Madara shits. Zabuza is honestly a non-factor, since Madara used Body Flicker and surprised SM Naruto, who is tiers faster than him. He isn't reacting to Madara's blitz. Kakashi then gets kicked down badly as well since he doesn't have feats to keep up with Madara.

Kakashi's Raikiri Variants gets evaded with ease and I cannot see him escape getting incinerated with Fire Style: Great Annihilation.
 

ATD

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Madara obliterates them with very little difficulty.

-Shunshin they can't react to.

-Katon they can't evade.

-Can't beat him in close combat due to superior speed, strength and skill.

If Zabuza tries silent killing, Madara intercepts him, and obliterates him. Or he just evaporates the whole mist and kills the users with his Gouka Mekkyaku.

i think i overrated team 1, but it won't be low diff
They are clone feint users, after the mist is set up Zabuzas shields himself with water clones and Kakashi goes underground sending raiton clones outside, they may can't react to madaras shun shin, but he would just hit a clone, in worst case a raiton clone, which would even led to an opening for team 1.

Katons are countered with suitons like Suiton: Daibakufu no Jutsu or Suiton: Suiryuudan no Jutsu.
Katon Gouka Mekkyaku is dodged by hiding like a mole (Kakashi) and Zabuza can hide himself under water.

In close combat the team sucks, but like i said above, there is the possibility that madara falls for a raiton clone feint, which would even give the team an opening of killing him with the Kubikiri Bouchou.

It won't be a low diff for madara, the team has its chances.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Ehh we really don't know much about madara b4 he gained his ms.
 

Lariatoo

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Yeah...
Madara definitly wins.
It needed up to ten water users to match Madara's katon.
Plus he blitzed SM Naruto and Sai while blind. Even whitout his gunbai he is winning.
 

KidGamer65

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i think i overrated team 1, but it won't be low diff
They are clone feint users, after the mist is set up Zabuzas shields himself with water clones and Kakashi goes underground sending raiton clones outside, they may can't react to madaras shun shin, but he would just hit a clone, in worst case a raiton clone, which would even led to an opening for team 1.

Madara's Dojutsu lets him see through clones, as shown when he saw through Naruto's clone, and when he stated that his Dojutsu lets him see through clones.

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Not to mention this whole strategy fails because of the mist. Madara can't see them to go attack them, so he'll just use an attack that'll cover and clear the whole battlefield, like Gouka Mekkyaku or Gouka Messitsu, meaning all the clones are killed.


Katons are countered with suitons like Suiton: Daibakufu no Jutsu or Suiton: Suiryuudan no Jutsu.
They needed a platoon to counter Madara's second smallest Katon shown in the manga. None of these guys have the power to do it on their own.

Katon Gouka Mekkyaku is dodged by hiding like a mole (Kakashi) and Zabuza can hide himself under water.

Then the mist is evaporated and when they come up, Madara obliterates.

In close combat the team sucks, but like i said above, there is the possibility that madara falls for a raiton clone feint, which would even give the team an opening of killing him with the Kubikiri Bouchou.
Considering he can see through clones, the chances of him falling to a clone feint are zero.

It won't be a low diff for madara, the team has its chances.

Nah, they don't stand a chance really.
 

ATD

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Most of the people here only are thinking by hype.
Kakashi tricked dojutsu users like Pain (rinnegan) and Itachi with his clone feints, a raiton clone fooled deva path and asura path.
Covered in the hidden mist it will be harder for madara to see through the clone feints.

The possibility that madara falls for a raiton clone feint isn't that high, but what if he gets fooled by one ?
 

ATD

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Madara's Dojutsu lets him see through clones, as shown when he saw through Naruto's clone, and when he stated that his Dojutsu lets him see through clones.

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Are you sure its because of his dojutsu the rinnegan ?
Madara may have just sensed Narutos chakra on multiples battlefields and comes to the conclusion that he is a shadow clone user.
Even Kaguya wasn't able to differ between clones, so i doubt Madara has this special gift.
Not to mention this whole strategy fails because of the mist. Madara can't see them to go attack them, so he'll just use an attack that'll cover and clear the whole battlefield, like Gouka Mekkyaku or Gouka Messitsu, meaning all the clones are killed.
Madaras Katons have a huge range, but hidden mist jutsu covered a entire battlefield even though there were big explosions and shockwaves



In addition to that the Katons of Madara can be countered when the clones would use water wall or water dragon.
Or two of this one should be enough to counter the Katon


They needed a platoon to counter Madara's second smallest Katon shown in the manga. None of these guys have the power to do it on their own.
Gouka Mekkyaku is Madaras biggest katon when i remember correctly and Kakashis clones+Zabuzas clones are able to build a little platoon, which will use stronger water attacks than suiton sujinheki.

Then the mist is evaporated and when they come up, Madara obliterates.
Not when the clones defend themselves with their suitons and the mist showed to bear up against explosions and shockwaves.
Considering he can see through clones, the chances of him falling to a clone feint are zero.
There is no prove that his eyes can see through clones, btw even if the scan you posted showed madara with the rinnegan active, rinnegan differs from 3T.
He will sense multiple enemys for sure, but he can't tell whether its a raiton clone a water clone or a shadow clone. He has no intel on raiton clones so there is a small possibility he falls for one clone feint.

Nah, they don't stand a chance really.
they do , but they won't win many times against him.
Maybe they can win 2/10 times due to the raiton clone feint.
 

KidGamer65

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Are you sure its because of his dojutsu the rinnegan ?
He didn't have Rinnegan back when he was alive.


Madara may have just sensed Narutos chakra on multiples battlefields and comes to the conclusion that he is a shadow clone user.
Knowing he's a shadow clone user=/=Knowing which one is a clone.

Which should be obvious.

Even Kaguya wasn't able to differ between clones, so i doubt Madara has this special gift.

That's Kaguya. This is Madara. Lol. Kaguya being stronger doesn't mean that her not having an ability invalidates Madara's chances of having it.

Madaras Katons have a huge range, but hidden mist jutsu covered a entire battlefield even though there were big explosions and shockwaves

The size of that battlefield is nowhere near the size of this battlefield nor is it near the size of the Juubi, which is how big Madara's Katon was, or at least close to that size.

In addition to that the Katons of Madara can be countered when the clones would use water wall or water dragon.
Or two of this one should be enough to counter the Katon
Clones? Not sure who you think we are debating with here, but Zabuza only has his fodder Water Clones, and there is zero proof that they can all replicate water wall and water dragon if he makes the amount needed to counter , which is dwarfed by his Juubi Sized Katon. There is no amount of clones they can make that'd let them counter that one.

Not sure if we are looking at the same panels here, but that Suiton is nowhere near the level of his basic Gouka Mekkyaku let alone his Juubi Sized Katons. 1 or 2 are plowed through with ease.

Gouka Mekkyaku is Madaras biggest katon when i remember correctly and Kakashis clones+Zabuzas clones are able to build a little platoon, which will use stronger water attacks than suiton sujinheki.

Lol, once again, who do you think we are debating with? Zabuza only has clones that are 10% of his power, meaning he's not replicating things on the scale of his Water Dragon, and Kakashi can't spam shadow clones and use jutsu like that. They'd be lucky to counter Gouka Mekkyaku in it's smallest form let alone his Juubi Sized Katon.


Not when the clones defend themselves with their suitons and the mist showed to bear up against explosions and shockwaves.
Clones don't have the power to defend against Madara's Katon. They'd struggle to make a platoon of clones equal to the amount of people that countered Gouka Mekkyaku let alone each clone having enough power to use a Suiton large enough to counter..

And that's not even the Juubi Sized Katon I'm talking about.

There is no prove that his eyes can see through clones, btw even if the scan you posted showed madara with the rinnegan active, rinnegan differs from 3T.
There is proof. Read above. Unless somehow Madara got Rinnegan before he fought Hashirama.

He will sense multiple enemys for sure, but he can't tell whether its a raiton clone a water clone or a shadow clone. He has no intel on raiton clones so there is a small possibility he falls for one clone feint.
He'll be able to tell it's a clone.

they do , but they won't win many times against him.
Maybe they can win 2/10 times due to the raiton clone feint.

Yeah, if he couldn't see through clones....but he can. So they win 0/10.
 

ATD

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He didn't have Rinnegan back when he was alive.

okay i didnt remember that panel, can't deny manga facts.
The rest doesn't matter, the only chance of the team was to get him with raiton clone, since he is the only one who can see through clones he is the worst match up i could have give to the team.

Few months ago i made a similar match up instead of 3T Madara i put Itachi with no restrictions.
A few members went with the team, so i thought 3T Madara against them would be also interesting, but i didnt remember that Madara can see through clones damn, he is the only one who is able to do so, not even the byakugan was able to differ between clones lol.
 

MadaraReturns

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come on, hidden mist and two clone feint users would give 3T Madara a good fight.
Genjutsu is useless, Katon is countered with suiton.
Madara is superior in taijutsu and speed, but he has to face 2 opponents.
Get the wank out of here and make an argument.

sorry im too late for an argument, i didnt get a notice that you replied.. anyways read kidgamers comments
 

ATD

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sorry im too late for an argument, i didnt get a notice that you replied.. anyways read kidgamers comments

no problem, i already admitted that i overrated team 1.
Madara somehow is able to see through clones which i forgot.
 

EZQ

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Team 1 can win. Zabuza is seriously underrrated. It was already showed that his v2 mist blocks almost completely a 3t sharingan. If there is a near watersource, his vortex jutsu can make some damage.

Not to mention his clone feints were good enough to outsmart Kakashi (who is smarter than madara)

Team 1 high diff
 

EZQ

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Team 1 can win. Zabuza is seriously underrrated. It was already showed that his v2 mist blocks almost completely a 3t sharingan. If there is a near watersource, his vortex jutsu can make some damage.

Not to mention his clone feints were good enough to outsmart Kakashi (who is smarter than madara)

Team 1 high diff
 

EZQ

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Dont fotget madara's taijutsu and speed would be handicaped because of the mist.
 
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