Why do some people believe this was a plot hole? (Madara Uchiha)

[Rikodou Mode]

Itachi's isn't a plot hole, he just assumed it was the strongest because he had never faced anyone stronger than him until he lost to Sasuke. Same with how people thought Sarutobi was a god because they never saw Hashirama fight.

Many of the claims are made from the individual character's perspective so you shouldn't take every word literally unless it's stated in the DB

 

[Holy God]

Madara doesn't have six paths sage mode, he has six paths ten-tails coffin seal. They are two different forms

No. The Six Paths Ten-Tail Coffin Seal is just what it describes, a seal. It is seemingly essential if you want to absorb the ten-tails. After performing the sealing, then the benefits of being it's host includes the Six Paths Sage Mode. It is even a parallel to Naruto while the Rinnegan is a parallel to Sasuke.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Itachi's isn't a plot hole, he just assumed it was the strongest because he had never faced anyone stronger than him until he lost to Sasuke. Same with how people thought Sarutobi was a god because they never saw Hashirama fight.

Many of the claims are made from the individual character's perspective so you shouldn't take every word literally unless it's stated in the DB

The data book is the worst when you take it literally.

 

[iKaras]

Itachi's isn't a plot hole, he just assumed it was the strongest because he had never faced anyone stronger than him until he lost to Sasuke. Same with how people thought Sarutobi was a god because they never saw Hashirama fight.

Many of the claims are made from the individual character's perspective so you shouldn't take every word literally unless it's stated in the DB

Who is "he" @ bold? Black Zetsu?

@ 2nd bold. That's impossible. the logic in the data books rivals the old testament.

 

[Young Thug]

Nope.

look at my sig. i + repped her and look what i got. heartache.


OT: i totes uh.. agree op. no plothole.. yeah. (i just wanted to say the above)

 

[Gerkak]

No. The Six Paths Ten-Tail Coffin Seal is just what it describes, a seal. It is seemingly essential if you want to absorb the ten-tails. After performing the sealing, then the benefits of being it's host includes the Six Paths Sage Mode. It is even a parallel to Naruto while the Rinnegan is a parallel to Sasuke.

That's what I thought at first, but the data book makes it clear that the forms while similar are different.

Both grant their users six paths senjutsu, but the forms are different in acquisition and characteristics. Naruto acquired RSM through the six paths himself, while madara and obito acquired their form by becoming jinchuriki of the juubi.

Naruto having better sensing, speed and reflexes than madara despite having far less chakra can be considered further proof of the difference between the two forms.

 

[Seventh Sama]

People only say it's a deus ex machina when they think madara is stronger than kaguya.

 

[Young Thug]

update: it transformed to positive rep somehow in some witchcraft voodoo way, she is no longer the

 

[JayPaperGod]

A Deus Ex Machina (Latin, lit. "God from Machine") is a literary plot device in which a solution to a problem is given with no previous suggestions or hints that it could be solved that way previously (in less formal terms, an "asspull"). Famous examples of deus ex machina are Energybending in Avatar: The Last Airbender and the children's rescue in Lord of the Flies.

Whether this is or isn't a deus ex machina, I don't know. I personally think it is, but in these days everything can be argued. I know people will argue that it is or isn't, but I don't want to make a judgment there.

 

[Chie]

No one has ever referred to what BZ did as a plot-hole. Most just refer to it as an ass-pull and those saying so being primarily Madara fans or people who hate BZ.

At the end of the day, BZ was stated to be undetectable by everyone, even sensors. It's not problematic writing. It's just embarrassing for Madara fans. That's all. Madara bragged about everything and stated how he had been running the show all along, only for us to find out that he was just a toy for BZ just as Indra and the other vain Uchiha had been. Black Zetsu's reveal as far as his planning goes would be a retcon. Kishimoto rewrote the entire Uchiha clan story, portraying them in an even more negative, naive light than before. This opened some plot-holes, like how was BZ able to even read the tablet when he didn't have the ocular powers to do so? Why didn't anyone notice within that time? Why did Madara think BZ was his will, if BZ just popped out of nowhere one day and wasn't from him? Things of that nature.

As far as Yata and Totsuka go, I don't see the correlation. Those don't fall under the category of plot hole, deus ex machina, or ass-pull. Itachi having a technique isn't a bad thing. (By that logic, every single thing in the series is an ass-pull since people show new techs all the time.) As an audience, we know that he was very intelligent, a prodigy, and did research since he was a young boy when no one else cared or even wanted to. He'd be the most likely to have those weapons. People tend to complain when Itachi has trump cards... that holds no weight. It's just his fighting style. He's not one of those noob shinobis that uses his most powerful tech first- he starts off with kunai like a real ninja and works his way up. So, things like ending a battle with Tsukuyomi, Izanami, Susano'o, etc make perfect sense and aren't bad writing- they're actually nice additions. Plus, he's the character that has the most references to mythology via his arsenal. All his techs represented something with his character, they weren't just randomly added for power-ups like Kishimoto did with the other Uchiha and characters.

 

[Holy God]

That's what I thought at first, but the data book makes it clear that the forms while similar are different.

Both grant their users six paths senjutsu, but the forms are different in acquisition and characteristics. Naruto acquired RSM through the six paths himself, while madara and obito acquired their form by becoming jinchuriki of the juubi.

Naruto having better sensing, speed and reflexes than madara despite having far less chakra can be considered further proof of the difference between the two forms.

I can't see how they're different actually. Six Paths Sage Mode is seemingly acquired by having the power of all nine tailed beasts. This is why Obito was able to activate some of it's abilities after absorbing Madara's chakra(and that he was already familiar with the mode). I don't have the DataBook for any analysis.

Your point on Naruto being superior to Madara physically is, as you may be able to tell, moot to me because I see Madara as being better. There aren't any direct comparisons either for me to consider.

 

[Gerkak]

I can't see how they're different actually. Six Paths Sage Mode is seemingly acquired by having the power of all nine tailed beasts. This is why Obito was able to activate some of it's abilities after absorbing Madara's chakra(and that he was already familiar with the mode). I don't have the DataBook for any analysis.

Your point on Naruto being superior to Madara physically is, as you may be able to tell, moot to me because I see Madara as being better. There aren't any direct comparisons either for me to consider.

Well, I am just saying what the data book said. Granted it isn't among the best of sources.

 

[VongolaX]

Using Obito's powers he could of remained intangible to go undetected and absorb him.

 

[iKaras]

No one has ever referred to what BZ did as a plot-hole. Most just refer to it as an ass-pull and those saying so being primarily Madara fans or people who hate BZ.

At the end of the day, BZ was stated to be undetectable by everyone, even sensors. It's not problematic writing. It's just embarrassing for Madara fans. That's all. Madara bragged about everything and stated how he had been running the show all along, only for us to find out that he was just a toy for BZ just as Indra and the other vain Uchiha had been. Black Zetsu's reveal as far as his planning goes would be a retcon. Kishimoto rewrote the entire Uchiha clan story, portraying them in an even more negative, naive light than before. This opened some plot-holes, like how was BZ able to even read the tablet when he didn't have the ocular powers to do so? Why didn't anyone notice within that time? Why did Madara think BZ was his will, if BZ just popped out of nowhere one day and wasn't from him? Things of that nature.

As far as Yata and Totsuka go, I don't see the correlation. Those don't fall under the category of plot hole, deus ex machina, or ass-pull. Itachi having a technique isn't a bad thing. (By that logic, every single thing in the series is an ass-pull since people show new techs all the time.) As an audience, we know that he was very intelligent, a prodigy, and did research since he was a young boy when no one else cared or even wanted to. He'd be the most likely to have those weapons. People tend to complain when Itachi has trump cards... that holds no weight. It's just his fighting style. He's not one of those noob shinobis that uses his most powerful tech first- he starts off with kunai like a real ninja and works his way up. So, things like ending a battle with Tsukuyomi, Izanami, Susano'o, etc make perfect sense and aren't bad writing- they're actually nice additions. Plus, he's the character that has the most references to mythology via his arsenal. All his techs represented something with his character, they weren't just randomly added for power-ups like Kishimoto did with the other Uchiha and characters.

Well, yeah I guess. I just feel like weapons as ground breaking that have no physical form can be found and installed into a susanoo with no explanation. Or was it already naturally in Itachi's eyes/brain?

It remind me of the time when Orochimaru just goes to an abandon Uzumaki house and grabs a mask(For the reaper death ritual) that some guy told him to get.

 

[Lightbringer]

A deus ex machina is a plot device. It's like the author interfering directly in order to create an unexpected outcome without any foreshadowing. Almost like God coming down and changing fate.

There was no hint, no clues, no previous references to Black Zetsu being Kaguya's will. They set up Madara as the final boss. He was mentioned since part one and had direct and indirect ties with the story.

Then comes Kaguya, 20 chapters before the end of the manga, and replaces Madara. The author made Black Zetsu Kaguya's will and had him betray Madara and somehow turn him into Kaguya even though Black Zetsu was weak on his own and Madara had God's power.

That's called why it was a Deus Ex Machina.

 

[Avani]

It's a "plot-hole" because Madara was unable to predict the attack, even with his Six Paths Sage Mode and two shadows behind both him and Zetsu.

Exactly why Madara should be able to predict that? He assumed he had gotten a faithful lackey in BZ and and his own extension not an enemy. Besides that attacks was something being foreshadowed repeatedly- him being apprehensive of someone on his back.

Madara's arrogance and taking the power up for granted at that point onwards, was his downfall. He just accepted that since his master plan was a success everything he was getting from that point was a fruit of his actions. Showing it off to kages and Hashirama, talking down to Tsunade the way he did talking about Uchiha when the powers he was using was stolen from Senju. All this was a built up towards his massive failure in the end. He never bothered to think about how BZ came to be about or the possibility that there could be something more to the tree. When a voice from the tree asks for merging he takes the chance without a sec's hesitation.

It's not even something new. Ask the witchking who got done in by a hobbit and a desperate to die woman.

 

[Red Flag X Drake]

Naruto has a lot of plot holes so most fans subconsciously ignore that XD

 

[KingHashirama]

Madara doesn't have six paths sage mode, he has six paths ten-tails coffin seal. They are two different forms

Madara stated he does.

 

[Gerkak]

Madara stated he does.

Madara states they both have six paths senjutsu. Six paths senjutsu can be gained by either using the six paths ten-tails coffin seal or six paths sage mode. The two forms are different

 

[PIOLO]

Madara madara madara madara simply is the best......