[Discussion] Conflict with ninshuu

[Fire Goddess]

I started to ponder about the sage of the six paths, he created ninshuu to connect everyone's heart in the assumption it would bring everyone closer together. Seeing that Ashura saw things similarly and was connecting people already, he chose him as successor.

However there is a flaw in his plan to end conflict. If everyone could read everyone's hearts, that doesn't mean that everyone would use this for good. Some might use it for bad, or to get something for themselves. If one person knew another one cared deeply for their friend, he might kill the other's friend out of vengeance or control. While ninshuu connects people it doesn't stop them from doing what they choose, they could use this for selfish intentions. Plus some may judge or look down upon others hearts, because not everyone is understanding to others, causing conflict and people to treat others differently and not necessarily for the better. Example is some may love their pet deeply, while another feels that makes them an inadequate person, while another may be so selfish they only love their material possessions, or think only of themselves there for their heart will only invest in themselves making them turn on other's hearts.

Indra probably knew this, which could be why he saw force and power as a means to stop conflict, but that is war in itself and Kaguya had already tried it, it didn't stop the wars or any hidden conflict, it only temporarily stopped the wars between people, but their was still conflict against Kaguya as people feared her, they would probably hide any other conflicts they had amongst themselves knowing that her intent is to end the conflicts. Because of the fear she would do something to them, people would try to hide all conflict they had with each other, but it would still be there. Basically without her, people don't fear something happening and they stop hiding the conflicts and bring war, just the conflicts and war were always there, just hidden for awhile.

As much they wanted to end war, it just won't happen as history will always repeat it's self

What do you think? What's your take on this subject?

 

[lndra]

Good theory but you are thinking way too hard on the subject. It is Kishimoto, and his projects are not that logical, especially Ninshuu. Apparently lndra only turned evil when Hagoromo chose Ashura as a successor, so it is unclear if Indra practiced Ninshuu too. Though, Hagoromo did state that he taught them both Ninshuu at a young age. So yeah.

 

[awesomeseimei]

Like I said elsewhere, it's just a moral lesson that Kishi wanted to deliver, about bonds. Of course it's not realistic. There's always an idea in any fiction, which the author sticks to, in this case, it's that.

 

[Six Paths]

Ninshu was not supposed to be used for war. The invention of the Hagoromo was supposed to connect everyone to one another, and have them understand one another's pain. His Ninshu was a way to connect them spiritually. But if you consider how people missed it with their own physical energy, chakra started being used for other means, that being making the wars bloodier. Ninshu was supposed not only to look in someone's heart, but to learn how each and everyone feels, really deep in their heart. The love and commitment to their family, would make every killer stop and question his actions. Hagoromo thought that if someone would understand the pain ad sorrow of someone else, they would stop hating that person, they would actually start supporting him. It was like this for his son. Ashura, no matter how untalented, with his commitment, he made other people trust him, unlocking his true power. This is what happened with Naruto too. Naruto's strength comes from being able to make people understand him. Sasuke was the ultimate goal here.

Indra himself was not against his brother being chosen, he was not gonna attack him no matter what. What made him do it ultimately, was one and only one, it was Black Zetsu. So I have to say that Indra was never the evil brother, he was jealous but not to that degree to attack his own breather. With the generations which followed, this conflict grew so strong. Naruto gave an ultimate end to this sorrow, by gaining Sasuke's trust. It was the ultimate frontier of hate he had to beat ultimately. Making Sasuke understand him, Naruto fulfilled his goal and destiny.

 

[Fire Goddess]

Good theory but you are thinking way too hard on the subject. It is Kishimoto, and his projects are not that logical, especially Ninshuu. Apparently lndra only turned evil when Hagoromo chose Ashura as a successor, so it is unclear if Indra practiced Ninshuu too. Though, Hagoromo did state that he taught them both Ninshuu at a young age. So yeah.

Some how I wonder if this lead Indra to create ninjutsu out of ninshuu... but I see your point, I just wish Kishimoto would give us more details.

For the longest time we were lead to believe Madara stole his brother's eyes and killed his best friend for power, then we suddenly get his back story and find out different.

 

[NineSNS]

BZ probably used ninshuu to see into Indra's heart so that he could manipulate him more effectively

 

[Joon]

Well, the conflict with Ninshuu was that people did not believe in the philosophy so the severed their "connection" and turn it into a weapon: Ninjutsu.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Ninshuu only works upon contact anyway, its vastly useless otherwise.

Therefore for contrast reasons it can be achieved with hugs and fists.

With hugs - both are already OK somewhat, could get better.
With fists - Now you know why they hate you, could be worked out or not.

Verdict: Has its beneficent uses but not a solution for peace, more like side tool.

 

[Fire Goddess]

BZ probably used ninshuu to see into Indra's heart so that he could manipulate him more effectively

This is possible, because then Black zetsu would know exactly how to tempt Indra, instead of trying to find out what would bring the darkness into his heart.