A question about Sasuke

[AlphaScythian]

The problem is, is that one, Kurama did not confirm it as COAT. Kurama confirmed that the process was the reverse of COAT, in how it would take the chakra of all 9 and mash the chakra into one being, whilst COAT took one thing and created something from it that breathed life.

Are you basically trying to say that its possible to split juubi w/o COAT by mere preta path or w/e. Because i cant understand how dividing of juubi into 9 distinct chakras is COAT and 9 distinct into 1 single is not.

Be that humanoid sapient, breading is irrelevant for COAT power, one can turn frog into stone or vice verse with COAT.

Second, the ability Sasuke performed was not COAT at all, all he did was take the chakra of nine different beings, and upgraded his Susano'o.

Therefore its impossible for COAT to mix 9 chakras into 1 humanoid and then clad it into existing susanoo as been done before?

 

[Narutohokage324]

Are you basically trying to say that its possible to split juubi w/o COAT by mere preta path or w/e. Because i cant understand how dividing of juubi into 9 distinct chakras is COAT and 9 distinct into 1 single is not.

The only thing that Sasuke did, was he took their chakra, pulling out and placing it on the Susano'o. Which seems highly possibly considering the Rinnegan's abilities. Not to mention he was the first Uchiha to use Rinnegan abilities in his Susano'o. Plus, he performed it with a seal, I'm assuming that was relevant in a way.

Be that humanoid sapient, breading is irrelevant for COAT power, one cant turn frog into stone or vice verse with COAT.

Therefore its impossible for COAT to mix 9 chakras into 1 humanoid and then clad it into existing susanoo as been done before?

It was only humanoid shaped, but it was not human. Theortically Perfect Susano'o is also humanoid because it has two legs, stands up straight, and has two hands. Despite the long Tengu shaped nose and the wings, it looks far more human than a Bijuu.

Yes. COAT does not take the chakra of different beings to create a single thing, or upgrade. COAT takes something, or a piece of something, and replicates it or creates a new entirely different object from its original composition.

 

[LeSauce]

I think he can summon them willingly. Regular summons can't feel the chakra of the summoner, seen when Gumabunta thought Jiraiya had summoned him when it was actually Naruto. Regular summons can't be summoned without blood as well, and they can deny the summoner, as AlphaSythian posted.

We also don't have anything suggesting that Bijuu have summoning contracts.

 

[AlphaScythian]

The only thing that Sasuke did, was he took their chakra, pulling out and placing it on the Susano'o. Which seems highly possibly considering the Rinnegan's abilities. Not to mention he was the first Uchiha to use Rinnegan abilities in his Susano'o. Plus, he performed it with a seal, I'm assuming that was relevant in a way.

I did not say sasuke split anything here.
Rest tells me nothing significant to change my mind:

Assumption of relevance of the seal. OK
Rinnegan absorbing chakras from bijuus on distance, supposedly (logically only) preta path, to later find out he's rather pathetic with it and not on hagoromo level? Seems like COAT even more now.
Then all other rinnegan users have COAT, sasuke doesnt despite original user blessed by hagoromo himself, very odd.

It was only humanoid shaped, but it was not human. Theortically Perfect Susano'o is also humanoid because it has two legs, stands up straight, and has two hands. Despite the long Tengu shaped nose and the wings, it looks far more human than a Bijuu.

How many times do i have to repeat that there isnt any set rule for a living entity to validate COAT.
If you want to create a stone, you shape it with yin power, yang power would actually be a physical material that the stone is made of, it would not create a breathing one.

Yes. COAT does not mix the chakras and create it into one thing. COAT takes something, and creates something from it.

Creating something from multiple yin/yang sources with COAT is not COAT then?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It's getting hot in here. Lol

 

[Narutohokage324]

I did not say sasuke split anything here.
Rest tells me nothing significant to change my mind:
Assumption of relevance of the seal. OK
Rinnegan absorbing chakras from bijuus on distance, supposedly (logically only) preta path, to later find out he's rather pathetic with it and not on hagoromo level? Seems like COAT even more now.
Then all other rinnegan users have COAT, sasuke doesnt despite original user blessed by hagoromo himself, very odd.

Hey. I'm not the one assuming Sasuke used COAT when he never performed an indication of using the ability itself. Kurama explained that Sasuke took their chakra. I'm assuming you are going to say COAT now revolves around taking the chakra from the Bijuu when it was never implied to do so. The fact is. The whole Akatsuki, Madara, and Obito all have performed the ability to remove the chakra from a Jinchuriki. I see no plausible excuse you can make for him not being able to have the necessary requirements to do so.

How many times do i have to repeat that there isnt any set rule for a living entity to validate COAT.
If you want to create a stone, you shape it with yin power, yang power would actually be a physical material that the stone is made of, it would not create a breathing one.

Creating something from multiple yin/yang sources with COAT is not COAT then?

Based on what exactly? More assumptions to add to the table? The fact is, COAT's abilities have only dealt with life force, and creating a substance of life. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sasuke did not create anything that was sentient with the chakra, what he did was use PS to store chakra much like a Gedo Manzou. How exactly is that different from him and Juugo amplifying it with Senjutsu? Or him wrapping Susano'o around the Kyuubi? The fact is, Susano'o itself is very versatile.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Hey. I'm not the one assuming Sasuke used COAT when he never performed an indication of using the ability itself. Kurama explained that Sasuke took their chakra. I'm assuming you are going to say COAT now revolves around taking the chakra from the Bijuu when it was never implied to do so. The fact is. The whole Akatsuki, Madara, and Obito all have performed the ability to remove the chakra from a Jinchuriki. I see no plausible excuse you can make for him not being able to have the necessary requirements to do so.

LOL indication? Did you expect sasuke to shout out 'COAT' while performing it, did others?
Madara and nagato had rinnegan and have COAT.
Obito did not have rinnegan whether he had COAT back then is unknown, but he had gedo he could control w/o, sasuke didnt.
Akatsuki in general were but boosters of w/e was directing the sealing jutsu and gedo.

Based on what exactly? More assumptions to add to the table? The fact is, COAT's abilities have only dealt with life force, and creating a substance of life. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sasuke did not create anything that was sentient with the chakra, what he did was use PS to store the it as a Gedo Manzou.

So tell me what were the first words Kakashi's eye spoke to him?

Then we might talk, still i enjoyed our debate good sir

 

[Transcendence]

Why is this argument perpetuated so much? Anyone who has a brain doesn't need to argue about it this much.

Sasuke possesses the Rin'negan which allows access to Yin and Yang and the ability to use them in conjunction. So with that known, yes Sasuke should be able to use some kind of variant of CoAT, but it would worthless in the long run for Sasuke, since the use of CoAT is always proportional to the amount of chakra one user possesses, hence why Naruto is and always will be a better user of it because Full Kurama and Hagoromo's Yang > Hagoromo's Yin, and the rest of the Bijuu chakra play a part.

 

[Narutohokage324]

LOL indication? Did you expect sasuke to shout out 'COAT' while performing it, did others?
Madara and nagato had rinnegan and have COAT.
Obito did not have rinnegan whether he had COAT back then is unknown, but he had gedo he could control w/o, sasuke didnt.
Akatsuki in general were but boosters of w/e was directing the sealing jutsu and gedo.

Madara/Obito with Rinnegan only, did not have COAT. Show me manga scans to fuel your hypocrisy.

So tell me what were the first words Kakashi's eye spoke to him?
Then we might talk, still i enjoyed our debate good sir

Looks like you haven't read it clear enough
The fact is, COAT's abilities have only dealt with life force, and creating a substance of life. Nothing more, nothing less.

Kakashi's eye is a part of him, much like an arm, and leg. It's an extension of himself. Though by all means go ahead and run, because you probably figured out how dumb this conversation was on your side

You must be registered for see images

Why is this argument perpetuated so much? Anyone who has a brain doesn't need to argue about it this much.

Sasuke possesses the Rin'negan which allows access to Yin and Yang and the ability to use them in conjunction. So with that known, yes Sasuke should be able to use some kind of variant of CoAT, but it would worthless in the long run for Sasuke, since the use of CoAT is always proportional to the amount of chakra one user possesses, hence why Naruto is and always will be a better user of it because Full Kurama and Hagoromo's Yang > Hagoromo's Yin, and the rest of the Bijuu chakra play a part.

Exactly. I was telling him he had to be some sort of variant or psuedo-form of COAT.

 

[Transcendence]

Also, for the record, what Sasuke did with the Bijuu wasn't actually CoAT related, if you want to use that argument. Kurama related it to what Hagoromo did with the Juubi, but he only compared the splitting/merging of the chakra, not the actual use of Yin-Yang Release. Sasuke used the Outer Path to take in the chakra to his Susano'o. Much like Madara used the Outer Path chains to re-absorb the Bijuu into the Gedo Mazou, but in this case, Sasuke used his Susano'o as a proxy Gedo here.

 

[Narutohokage324]

Also, for the record, what Sasuke did with the Bijuu wasn't actually CoAT related, if you want to use that argument. Kurama related it to what Hagoromo did with the Juubi, but he only compared the splitting/merging of the chakra, not the actual use of Yin-Yang Release. Sasuke used the Outer Path to take in the chakra to his Susano'o. Much like Madara used the Outer Path chains to re-absorb the Bijuu into the Gedo Mazou, but in this case, Sasuke used his Susano'o as a proxy Gedo here.

I see my logic was flawed because I was comparing it to the PP. Not the OPath, thanks for the clear up.

 

[Transcendence]

I see my logic was flawed because I was comparing it to the PP. Not the OPath, thanks for the clear up.

That's what a lot of people thought, but it wouldn't make sense if it was Preta Path. Preta Path applies a barrier around the user. There was no such barrier around Sasuke and we know Outer Path is the path most related to Bijuu chakra. Instead of chains here from the Outer Path, since Sasuke had the Bijuu under his control with Genjutsu, it's like a pseudo form of control like the chains, and he just channeled through the path and absorbed the chakra into his Susano'o.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Madara/Obito with Rinnegan only, did not have COAT. Show me manga scans to fuel your hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy implies double standards, show me using them. I dont have manga scans for their COAT.
Manga doesnt even state naruto has it, DB does, but dont they have yin/yang, doesnt rinnegan allow for mastery of all natures?
Why go against manga established facts?

Looks like you haven't read it clear enough
The fact is, COAT's abilities have only dealt with life force, and creating a substance of life. Nothing more, nothing less.

Since we're playing this game now, show me the manga statement for this claim, or better this statement itself.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Mine says 'ability to control all creation' be it atom or most complex life form it's all creation.

Kakashi's eye is a part of him, much like an arm, and leg. It's an extension of himself. Though by all means go ahead and run, because you probably figured out how dumb this conversation was on your side

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And this suppose to prove what? The eye by itself cannot exist, we all know that it has no life of its own nor force of such.

And its leads no where to imply things, we practically parted ways, but you did request an honest answer from me that i did grant you, your pursue of changing it is not my problem.

Exactly. I was telling him he had to be some sort of variant or psuedo-form of COAT.

It was a bold concept

 

[Conspirator.]

Also, for the record, what Sasuke did with the Bijuu wasn't actually CoAT related, if you want to use that argument. Kurama related it to what Hagoromo did with the Juubi, but he only compared the splitting/merging of the chakra, not the actual use of Yin-Yang Release. Sasuke used the Outer Path to take in the chakra to his Susano'o. Much like Madara used the Outer Path chains to re-absorb the Bijuu into the Gedo Mazou, but in this case, Sasuke used his Susano'o as a proxy Gedo here.

Great post as usual. I was thinking he used the Outer Path as well, but you explained it perfectly.

 

[Endles Waltz]

OP: He is perfectly capable of doing so if he really wanted, even if a contract is required, just like how Madara and Obito forcefully did it with Kyuubi, Sasuke can do it with all the Bijuu.

It would be pretty badass and OP, summoning all the Bijuu whenever he wants before absorbing their chakra.

The Bijuu PS is within his grasp whenever he wants. =D

 

[AlphaScythian]

That's what a lot of people thought, but it wouldn't make sense if it was Preta Path. Preta Path applies a barrier around the user. There was no such barrier around Sasuke and we know Outer Path is the path most related to Bijuu chakra. Instead of chains here from the Outer Path, since Sasuke had the Bijuu under his control with Genjutsu, it's like a pseudo form of control like the chains, and he just channeled through the path and absorbed the chakra into his Susano'o.

Just because outer is another form of control, i find it somewhat of a shot to claim it can be channelled via genjutsu.

Outel has always relied on chakra receiving rods which are special for it's unique purpose or raw projection of chakra chains which were augmented by gedo.

While its also good theory practically it doesnt have enough backbone imho, wouldnt you think?

 

[Transcendence]

Just because outer is another form of control, i find it somewhat of a shot to claim it can be channelled via genjutsu.

Outel has always relied on chakra receiving rods which are special for it's unique purpose or raw projection of chakra chains which were augmented by gedo.

While its also good theory practically it doesnt have enough backbone imho, wouldnt you think?

The backbone is simple.

The control from the Gedou are the chains which bind the Bijuu and pull them in. In Sasuke's case, it's different. The Genjutsu is the binding (along with the CT but the Genjutsu allows for the control) and through that (Outer Path), it's channeled into the Gedou (his Susano'o) to form what came right after. Same mechanics, just a different way of using it because of what was available at the time.

 

[AlphaScythian]

The backbone is simple.

The control from the Gedou are the chains which bind the Bijuu and pull them in. In Sasuke's case, it's different. The Genjutsu is the binding (along with the CT but the Genjutsu allows for the control) and through that (Outer Path), it's channeled into the Gedou (his Susano'o) to form what came right after. Same mechanics, just a different way of using it because of what was available at the time.

No i got the theory. What im saying is there is nothing to validate ability to cast outer via genjutsu.
Outer relies on direct touch, or direct touch via receivers or direct touch via extended chakra formation such as chains.

If i then would agree that oh well genjutsu means some chakra of sasuke acting as receiver, but this wouldnt explain different visual behaviour of chakra transfer.

For example when Obito was powering edo jins up to full bijuu mode we didnt see lasers of chakra connecting from mazou to jins forth and back.

 

[King Of Pop]

=lndra;18534957]
Sasuke pulled chakra. What is that? Petra Path
After Sasuke asborbed the chakra, what did he do? He placed the chakra into his Susano'o, similar to a Gedo Manzou. The same technique that Madara/Obito and even the Akatsuki did to try to revive the Juubi. Unless you are now stating your claims that Madara/Obito have Creation of All Things too.

urrm no. he didnt merely pull chakra out, he combined/merged the separate chakras of all the bijjus into one, a process similar to hagoromo except the latter split them while sasuke merged them which is why kurama stated he did the opposite of the sage. after doing that, while doing that, sasuke at same time was putting them into ps similar to gedo mazo. he did 2 things at once.
1 merge the different chakras
2. put them in his ps

What Sasuke/Madara/Obito did putting the chakra into the Gendo Manzou, or in this case, Susano'o is essentially a reverse by putting 9 different chakra's into one, opposed to splitting the Juubi into the Nine Tailed Beasts. Understand? Mind you, every Rinnegan user in the manga has shown to do so. Sasuke performed it a a high skill level, that's all.

except akatsuki never combined any chakra. they used gedo to merely absorb the bijjus into it while sasuke combined them and absorbed them in ps. pretty sure kurama. and no sasuke and hagoromo are the only ones to do something like that with sasuke doing the opposite.

and no, i dont believe its COAT if thats what you think am implying