A question about Sasuke

[lndra]

Manga(Kurama) tells me Sasuke did the exact opposite of what Hagoromo did. What Hagoromo did ? He seperated Juubi's chakra and body. He sealed the body into moon and chakra into himself. And just like in the scan he explains, he seperated the Juubi chakra within him into 9 parts which came to known as the Bijuus.

That has nothing to do with splitting the Juubi. In case you missed my words: "Yes, you are completely wrong here. It's actually confusing to how you even came to such a conclusion, especially since the manga already tells you how it happened. Hagoromo did not split the Juubi with a Gedo Manzou. How do I know this? Because it was never explained how. Wanna know how I destroy your theory for it?

Hagoromo had to split the Juubi, the half inside of him which then turned into the 9 tailed beasts. After he split it, what became left of the Juubi was the Gedo Manzou which became the shell of the Juubi."

Databook states how Hagoromo split the Juubi:

Spoiler

Yin-Yang Release

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Translation:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

No, he didn't created the Bijuus until later on. He already sealed the Shell into moon and its chakra to himself. He decided to creat the Bijuus after seeing Ashura's 'cooperation' stuff.

Already destroyed that. The shell was after the Juubi had been split, or do you want scans of that too?

Juubi possess chakra. And also possess Natural energy, the chakra of the 9 bijuus are core of the Juubi. If you have more chakra, than you draw natural energy more and quickly. Senjutsu isn't natural energy, its the form of chakra which is combined with natural energy.

I already told you that the Juubi is a manifestation of Natural energy:

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Well in the manga it is stated you can have Rinnegan only if you have both Indra and Ashura's chakras together. With your logic he shouldn't have the Rinnegan in the first place. Sasuke literally showed the ability to use COAT while he created fake Juubi with his PS.

No no. The Rinnegan is activated by having both Indra/Ashura's chakra together, but that does not equal Sasuke having the COAT ability. The databook already lists only Naruto/Hagoromo as the only users of COAT. I won't stress on this because you are pretending to be stupid and/or trolling:
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

''He's merging all of the disseminated chakra into one.''
''It's like Six Paths Geezer's level. Well, Except that he's doing the reverse thing.''

That has nothing to do with the COAT ability at all. Sasuke is pulling chakra into the Susano'o, that is not a YIN/YANG ability, it's a Rinnegan ability.

 

[AlphaScythian]

nope.
oh how logical of you :yeah:

Oh well

It was already explained that both Madara/Obito had a summoning contract with the Kyuubi. You can only summon animals (or in this case Bijuu) when they have placed a seal on them, even Kurama reacted when Madara tried to pull him out with a summoning technique.

Next, Obito had summoned Kurama without pulling an ounce of chakra from his mask. Lastly, there have been instances in the manga where the Summoning Jutsu had been displayed without using a drop of blood. Even in the air, even in the water, and hell even in a parallel dimension (Sasuke).

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Summoning does require the blood, w/o Kabuto would not be able to summon the manda.
Suigetsu wouldnt be able to summon sasuke too.

I view edo as separate case because users have no blood and w/e the magic makes it work is beyond me.

While i do believe of possibility to find some scan where user forms the seals and doesnt care about the blood, purely just kishi forgot to draw it, im still willing to bet you on finding that.

But beware that scan like that early one of minato and this of sasuke where we have end result only does not help us to determine whether blood was used.

If you however will be lucky enough to find such scan, do you think this small case of inconsistency overrules manga rule of need for blood in all other cases?

Also in case you havent noticed lack of blood is not only difference that hints me of another type of contract - chakra based such as those of pein or the one hagoromo used on FTG basis so to say, but the fact that in blood contract summoned may refuse the call, kurama never could just like one cant in chakra based one because no real contract was ever signed.

 

[lndra]

SNIp

Irrelevent since the discussion is about how Kyuubi was summoned:

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Kurama is the only Tailed Beast that was shown to have been summoned, therefore, we must come to the conclusion that does not need a blood because much like Bijuu, they don't bleed like normal summoning animal's do.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Irrelevent since the discussion is about how Kyuubi was summoned:

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Kurama is the only Tailed Beast that was shown to have been summoned, therefore, we must come to the conclusion that does not need a blood because much like Bijuu, they don't bleed like normal summoning animal's do.

Except that kurama does bleed and somehow you completely IGNORE the existence of other contracts Pein/hagoromo that do spread same markings on the ground, are based on chakra at both ends basis and dont care if summoned is busy like that case with gamabunta cuz i bet kurama would not show up if he so could.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Irrelevent since the discussion is about how Kyuubi was summoned:

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Kurama is the only Tailed Beast that was shown to have been summoned, therefore, we must come to the conclusion that does not need a blood because much like Bijuu, they don't bleed like normal summoning animal's do.

Summoning Kurama did require blood.

Spoiler

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OT: It's never really been stated whether or not Kurama was put under some form of special summoning contract by Madara and Obito after placing him genjutsu, or if it was solely due to a chakra connection due to the genjutsu. I would think that a connection like that would wear off after Madara's natural death just like the Alliance's connection with Naruto's chakra was broken after Kurama's extraction. We've also seen Edo-Tensei retain their summoning contracts after death (Hanzo, Gengetsu Hozuki).

 

[lndra]

Summoning Kurama did require blood.

Spoiler

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OT: It's never really been stated whether or not Kurama was put under some form of special summoning contract by Madara and Obito after placing him genjutsu, or if it was solely due to a chakra connection due to the genjutsu. I would think that a connection like that would wear off after Madara's natural death just like the Alliance's connection with Naruto's chakra was broken after Kurama's extraction. We've also seen Edo-Tensei retain their summoning contracts after death (Hanzo, Gengetsu Hozuki).

Except that kurama does bleed and somehow you completely IGNORE the existence of other contracts Pein/hagoromo that do spread same markings on the ground, are based on chakra at both ends basis and dont care if summoned is busy like that case with gamabunta cuz i bet kurama would not show up if he so could.

And there rests my case. I guess Kurama was indeed under a normal summoning contract then, because more than one person summoned Kurama with the same exact Summoning Jutsu. If it was more than that Kishimoto would of put it into more detail.

 

[maniaoqan]

That has nothing to do with splitting the Juubi. In case you missed my words: "Yes, you are completely wrong here. It's actually confusing to how you even came to such a conclusion, especially since the manga already tells you how it happened. Hagoromo did not split the Juubi with a Gedo Manzou. How do I know this? Because it was never explained how. Wanna know how I destroy your theory for it?

OK. I remembered Kurama saying Hagoromo survived the Bijuu extracting because he had the Statue in himself.

Hagoromo had to split the Juubi, the half inside of him which then turned into the 9 tailed beasts. After he split it, what became left of the Juubi was the Gedo Manzou which became the shell of the Juubi."

Databook states how Hagoromo split the Juubi:

Spoiler

Yin-Yang Release

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Translation:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

Spoiler

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Here he says he divided Juubi's power into 9 and named them which are The bijuus. Combining with what Kurama said about Hagoromo surviving their extraction, Mazou probably remained in him and he sealed it away right before he died.
And while all this is great, you're completly disregarding Kurama's words about how Sasuke did the opposite of what RS did. And instead of Mazou he can use his PS, which will kill the Bijuus.

And regarding the databook. You do know that it published before Naruto and Sasuke fight right ? So Sasuke didn't showed the ability to use COAT when it published, he used it in their last fight which is why Databook is outdated in this

I already told you that the Juubi is a manifestation of Natural energy:

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Juubi isn't merely a construct of Natural energy alone. He posses normal chakra which is so massive and it also absorbes ridiculous amount of natural energy. Juubi needs his body and chakra together to absorb natural energy. Which is why when bijuus created they didn't possessed natural energy. Other wise Naruto's regular BM mode would be no different than BSM.

No no. The Rinnegan is activated by having both Indra/Ashura's chakra together, but that does not equal Sasuke having the COAT ability. The databook already lists only Naruto/Hagoromo as the only users of COAT. I won't stress on this because you are pretending to be stupid and/or trolling:
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

Like I said, DB published before the final fight and it is outdated in this subject.

That has nothing to do with the COAT ability at all. Sasuke is pulling chakra into the Susano'o, that is not a YIN/YANG ability, it's a Rinnegan ability.

Sasuke doesn't posses Yin/Yang just as much as Naruto doesn't possess Kage Bunshin.

 

[lndra]

snip

Listen bro. I don't have time for these needless arguments.

Databook explains how Hagoromo split the Juubi:

Spoiler

Yin-Yang Release

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Translation:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

I. Sasuke did not use COAT to get chakra from the Bijuu and ampify his Susano'o with it.
II. Hagoromo is the only known user of COAT, and Naruto only gained the ability from the Yang Seal, hence why Naruto could not restore his and Sasuke's arm because the seal's chakra left with the Chibaku Tensei.

 

[V h o]

He didn't make a summoning with them though...

 

[AlphaScythian]

Summoning Kurama did require blood.

Spoiler

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OT: It's never really been stated whether or not Kurama was put under some form of special summoning contract by Madara and Obito after placing him genjutsu, or if it was solely due to a chakra connection due to the genjutsu. I would think that a connection like that would wear off after Madara's natural death just like the Alliance's connection with Naruto's chakra was broken after Kurama's extraction. We've also seen Edo-Tensei retain their summoning contracts after death (Hanzo, Gengetsu Hozuki).

And there rests my case. I guess Kurama was indeed under a normal summoning contract then, because more than one person summoned Kurama with the same exact Summoning Jutsu. If it was more than that Kishimoto would of put it into more detail.

Are you kidding me? :|

This is madara summoning the gedo and has no connection to Obito's case /facepalm

 

[lndra]

He didn't make a summoning with them though...

You would have to make a summoning contract with them to perform the summoning jutsu, no?

 

[V h o]

You would have to make a summoning contract with them to perform the summoning jutsu, no?

For practically everything, besides the gedo mazo I believe. That's usually the only way to summon anything.

 

[lndra]

For practically everything, besides the gedo mazo I believe. That's usually the only way to summon anything.

Exactly because the Gedo Manzou because available when one unlocks the Rinnegan/Or gains the Rinnegan. Dunno what that other guy was stating but it was ... weird.

 

[maniaoqan]

Listen bro. I don't have time for these needless arguments.

I. Sasuke did not use COAT to get chakra from the Bijuu and ampify his Susano'o with it.
II. Hagoromo is the only known user of COAT, and Naruto only gained the ability from the Yang Seal, hence why Naruto could not restore his and Sasuke's arm because the seal's chakra left with the Chibaku Tensei.

Spoiler

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Yin-Yang release created the Bijuus.

Spoiler

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Sasuke did the reverse thing which means he also possess Yin-Yang ability into some extent.

I really don't get how hard this could get to understand, but nevermind it is pointless to argue considering neither of us backing out from our claims.

 

[lndra]

snip

Pulling the chakra from the Tailed Beasts is not a Creation Of All Things Ability. Kurama explains that Sasuke is taking the disorganization chakra from the Tailed Beasts, and is placing it onto the Susanano'o converting it almost like a Gedo Manzou, which Madara/Obito and even the Akatsuki have done after taking in Bijuu's.


You're the only one who has no proof to Sasuke using COAT because that is not a COAT ability.

Yin-Yang Release

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Translation:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

COAT in action:

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You are literally reading the chapter overall wrong, and then you are basing assumptions from nothing at all.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Are you kidding me? :|

This is madara summoning the gedo and has no connection to Obito's case /facepalm

Kurama equates Madara using blood to summon the Gedou Mazou to the sensation of Madara summoning him in the past, meaning that Madara used blood to summon Kurama; Obito would have had to use the same method. In both cases, Kurama was put under genjutsu and then summoned later. It remains to be seen if that was due to a contract that the two created or just via the genjutsu.

 

[maniaoqan]

Pulling the chakra from the Tailed Beasts is not a Creation Of All Things Ability. Kurama explains that Sasuke is taking the disorganization chakra from the Tailed Beasts, and is placing it onto the Susanano'o converting it almost like a Gedo Manzou, which Madara/Obito and even the Akatsuki have done after taking in Bijuu's.


You're the only one who has no proof to Sasuke using COAT because that is not a COAT ability.

Yin-Yang Release

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Translation:
Shinobi Well-Informed Record
Yin-Yang Release Techniques The "origin's" properties are filled with great mysteries. The Yin-Yang Release techniques are analyzed here.
Six Paths The secret technique forming all creation out of nothingness and giving it life.
↓ Spiritual and physical energy. That is Yin-Yang Release.
"Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form. The one with the skill to manipulate those two attributes, the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo Otsutsuki, developed the "Creation of All Things Technique". He also created the nine bodies of the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten-Tails chakra, making them gifts of Yin-Yang Release. After this, the Uchiha Clan inherited Yin Release and the Senju Clan inherited Yang Release.
↑ Naruto, who acquired Hagoromo's power, demonstrates perfect [use?] of the Yin-Yang Release power.
← In Hiden Ninjutsu, there are remains of Yin-Yang Release...!!

COAT in action:

Spoiler

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You are literally reading the chapter overall wrong, and then you are basing assumptions from nothing at all. It's sadly pathetic.

OK so creating the Bijuus requires COAT.
Doing exact opposite doesnt ? You're not making sense. He even creates a Humanoid creature, I mean C'mon.
You're just posting outdated DB which is published before Sasuke vs Naruto all over again.

Then when i ask what Sasuke done you say he gathered bijuus chakras. Than was that Humanoid creature was just a random occurrence?

I'm trying to have a level headed discussion with you yet all you try is insulting me.
No need to get agitated, if you don't like what i think about this matter, you can always ignore.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

You can't summon without summoning contract

 

[AlphaScythian]

Kurama equates Madara using blood to summon the Gedou Mazou to the sensation of Madara summoning him in the past, meaning that Madara used blood to summon Kurama; Obito would have had to use the same method. In both cases, Kurama was put under genjutsu and then summoned later. It remains to be seen if that was due to a contract that the two created or just via the genjutsu.

In the existence of other forms of summoning techniques that dont use blood and rely on chakra to chakra at peers it cant be passed off as a fact.

While one can speculate that madara had the time to make some scroll write some rights and obligations text, sign it, force kurama via genjutsu to put it's bloody paw and all, Obito simply had no window for that.

@Bold Kurama inside naruto was not in genjutsu, seemingly the seal was only thing that held it off

Since your open mind and honesty allows you to see the possibility of other way via genjutsu/chakra based summon the answer to the topic still a potential yes in Sasuke's favor.

OK so creating the Bijuus requires COAT.
Doing exact opposite doesnt ? You're not making sense. He even creates a Humanoid creature, I mean C'mon.
You're just posting outdated DB which is published before Sasuke vs Naruto all over again.

Then when i ask what Sasuke done you say he gathered bijuus chakras. Than was that Humanoid creature was just a random occurrence?

I'm trying to have a level headed discussion with you yet all you try is insulting me.
No need to get agitated, if you don't like what i think about this matter, you can always ignore.

The answer is here LOL

 

[lndra]

OK so creating the Bijuus requires COAT.
Doing exact opposite doesnt ? You're not making sense. He even creates a Humanoid creature, I mean C'mon.
You're just posting outdated DB which is published before Sasuke vs Naruto all over again.

Then when i ask what Sasuke done you say he gathered bijuus chakras. Than was that Humanoid creature was just a random occurrence?

I'm trying to have a level headed discussion with you yet all you try is insulting me.
No need to get agitated, if you don't like what i think about this matter, you can always ignore.

Read please: "Yin Release", which creates form out of nothingness and "Yang Release", which breathes life into form"

Sasuke pulled chakra. What is that? Petra Path
After Sasuke asborbed the chakra, what did he do? He placed the chakra into his Susano'o, similar to a Gedo Manzou. The same technique that Madara/Obito and even the Akatsuki did to try to revive the Juubi. Unless you are now stating your claims that Madara/Obito have Creation of All Things too.

What Sasuke/Madara/Obito did putting the chakra into the Gendo Manzou, or in this case, Susano'o is essentially a reverse by putting 9 different chakra's into one, opposed to splitting the Juubi into the Nine Tailed Beasts. Understand? Mind you, every Rinnegan user in the manga has shown to do so. Sasuke performed it a a high skill level, that's all.

I don't really understand how that is hard to comprehend ...