A question about Sasuke

[maniaoqan]

they're made of chakra that has always been apart of NV and can never cease to exist, they either be one (Juubi) or the nine different entities Hagoromo made them.

and "sealing" is NOT destroying that is if Sasuke can alone preform such a seal.

"Reverse what Hagoromo did" ?? elaborate please.

Just like his fight against Naruto. Kurama said Sasuke was doing same thing Hagoromo doing in reverse, only this time he'll go all the way. Remember he said he was taking first step into the shadows when he took a portion of their chakras. Its not hard to understand what the other steps entail.

 

[lndra]

Not so easy pal

Just because you have a scan with saying 'summoning technique' it doesnt end it yet.
He could yell w/e however, in this scan and in madara's summoning, blood which is a must in traditional summoning technique has not been used.

Lets take pein bodies and specifically that one with summons.
Blood hasnt been used, markings visually the same, yet dead bodies of humans and animals been summoned all over via simple chakra presence of same user in all of them.

What we practically got is FTG but with markings of a regular summoning technique

Yes, it does.

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There are 3 other examples in the manga if you want me to find them U_U

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Not so easy pal

Just because you have a scan with saying 'summoning technique' it doesnt end it yet.
He could yell w/e however, in this scan and in madara's summoning, blood which is a must in traditional summoning technique has not been used.

Lets take pein bodies and specifically that one with summons.
Blood hasnt been used, markings visually the same, yet dead bodies of humans and animals been summoned all over via simple chakra presence of same users in all of them.

What we practically got is FTG but with markings of a regular summoning technique

Usage of blood is NOT a must in traditional summoning techniques. We have more than one instance where the user used a summon without blood (Edo Hiruzen) even the living characters were inconsistent in using blood before summoning (not really a reliable sign).

 

[lndra]

Just like his fight against Naruto. Kurama said Sasuke was doing same thing Hagoromo doing in reverse, only this time he'll go all the way. Remember he said he was taking first step into the shadows when he took a portion of their chakras. Its not hard to understand what the other steps entail.

Kurama was talking about Sasuke merging the separated chakra into one. The "reverse thing" was Kurama comparing how Sasuke performed the act in a way Hagoromo would not, but aside that. That has nothing to do with killing a Bijuu, nor explaining how Hagoromo could split/reform them, nor how Sasuke could perform such act when Hagoromo had both Rinnegan and Six Path Senjutsu.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Just like his fight against Naruto. Kurama said Sasuke was doing same thing Hagoromo doing in reverse, only this time he'll go all the way. Remember he said he was taking first step into the shadows when he took a portion of their chakras. Its not hard to understand what the other steps entail.

scans please, because i don't remember Kurama mentioning anything that could back up your claim.

 

[lndra]

scans please, because i don't remember Kurama mentioning anything that could back up your claim.

I have a Viz Scan of the scene, he was mentioning the converting of the Bijuu chakra into a separate link inside of the Gedo:

Spoiler

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[maniaoqan]

Kurama was talking about Sasuke merging the separated chakra into one. The "reverse thing" was Kurama comparing how Sasuke performed the act in a way Hagoromo would not, but aside that. That has nothing to do with killing a Bijuu, nor explaining how Hagoromo could split/reform them, nor how Sasuke could perform such act when Hagoromo had both Rinnegan and Six Path Senjutsu.

What Hagoromo did created the Bijuus. Kurama says Sasuke is capable of doing the opposite of it. Meaning Sasuke has the same ability as Hagoromo about manipulating the Bijuu's chakra. You can discuss their skill and experience, but Sasuke has the ability to perform such task as stated in the manga. I don't have a Viz Scan and if someone shares it would be great.

Spoiler

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Bijuus are simply a result of Hagoromo's jutsu. If Sasuke uses exact opposite of that jutsu it would kill them but their chakras remains, he probably planned to use that chakra to become immortal.

Edit:

I have a Viz Scan of the scene, he was mentioning the converting of the Bijuu chakra into a separate link inside of the Gedo:

Spoiler

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Sasuke showed in the manga that he has other means to use than the Gedo Mazou such as his PS. And Viz Scan verifies about Sasuke is capable of reversing the process. I don't see whats there to discuss.

 

[riley freeman]

He'll be to op, actually anyone with the sharingan would be too op if that were possible so I doubt it

 

[Narutohokage324]

What Hagoromo did created the Bijuus. Kurama says Sasuke is capable of doing the opposite of it. Meaning Sasuke has the same ability as Hagoromo about manipulating the Bijuu's chakra. You can discuss their skill and experience, but Sasuke has the ability to perform such task as stated in the manga. I don't have a Viz Scan and if someone shares it would be great.

Spoiler

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Bijuus are simply a result of Hagoromo's jutsu. If Sasuke uses exact opposite of that jutsu it would kill them but their chakras remains, he probably planned to use that chakra to become immortal.

What the hell...
Viz:

Spoiler

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You are interpreting it completely wrong. Kurama is explaining how Sasuke is pulling the chakra of each tailed beasts and merging the power into the Susano'o to use a vessel, similar to a Gedo Manzou. Except he is doing the quite opposite of how Hagoromo would perform such-said ability.

That has nothing to do with splitting the Juubi at all:

Spoiler

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Gathering chakra =/= What Hagoromo did. They are two entirely different concepts here. That's like implying JJ Madara could do the same too, when in fact, he could not. Only Hagoromo can use COAT.

 

[lndra]

snip.

No, no. You are completely wrong here, it's actually pretty weird how you even came to such a dumbfounded conclusion. Sasuke is pulling chakra from the tailed beasts, and merging it into the Susano'o. That has nothing to do with Hagoromo splitting the Juubi into nine equal parts, noting at all.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Yes, it does.

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There are 3 other examples in the manga if you want me to find them U_U

You're missing the point.
Which is as long as as intended summoned object be it live or dead will unconditionally be summoned via s/t technique one of which is traditional summoning technique.

The reason i denote traditional technique because in such summoned gamabunta for example may refuse to be summoned while in s/t that relies on marking via chakra such as FTG and practically that of nagato it doesnt seem to have this option.

Usage of blood is NOT a must in traditional summoning techniques. We have more than one instance where the user used a summon without blood (Edo Hiruzen) even the living characters were inconsistent in using blood before summoning (not really a reliable sign).

This said inconsistency only been found in Edo's and kurama's summoning.
I dont know how edo tensei bypasses need for blood but it gets over lots of stuff so its logical to me to make an exeption here.
At the same time as edo zombies summoned this or that w/o blood, team seven did require the blood for their proved traditional contracts.

The case with kurama seems to be different to me in that kurama cannot refuse the summoner therefore i suspect of different type of contract on FTG functional basis that only requires user's chakra presence which is achieved by genjutsu = YIN release which is chakra inside the poor bijuu.

Its only the hypothesis but makes most sense to me

 

[lndra]

sni[

People have been using the Summoning Jutsu without blood countless times in the manga:

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That has nothing to do with assumptions because the manga shows us that it is possible to summon without blood

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[maniaoqan]

What the hell...

You are interpreting it completely wrong. Kurama is explaining how Sasuke is pulling the chakra of each tailed beasts and merging the power into the Susano'o to use a vessel, similar to a Gedo Manzou. Except he is doing the quite opposite of how Hagoromo would perform such-said ability.

No I'm not. Kurama literally says Sasuke is doing the opposite of what Hagoromo did. Hagoromo created Bijuu so Sasuke can destroy them by combining all 9 into 1. He even has a vessel for it, his PS.

Gathering chakra =/= What Hagoromo did. They are two entirely different concepts here. That's like implying JJ Madara could do the same too, when in fact, he could not. Only Hagoromo can use COAT.

Well Bijuus are made of chakra. Sasuke only gathered a portion of them to fight against Naruto, he can kill them by simply gathering all of their chakra thus erasing them from existence the opposite way Hagoromo created them out of nothing.

And let me ask you a question, Sasuke showed to ability to absorb chakra, and deva path. Do you think he took a quick course from Hagoromo ? No those abilities came with the Rinnegan instinctively, same as the COAT he used in reverse.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

What Hagoromo did created the Bijuus. Kurama says Sasuke is capable of doing the opposite of it. Meaning Sasuke has the same ability as Hagoromo about manipulating the Bijuu's chakra. You can discuss their skill and experience, but Sasuke has the ability to perform such task as stated in the manga. I don't have a Viz Scan and if someone shares it would be great.

Spoiler

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Bijuus are simply a result of Hagoromo's jutsu. If Sasuke uses exact opposite of that jutsu it would kill them but their chakras remains, he probably planned to use that chakra to become immortal.

and that's somehow related to what the Sage did (creation of all things) .........

 

[Aznkidd]

If i remember correctly somewhere stated that Madara promise to Kuybi something in return he get summon contact. Or maybe just some fanfic that i remember, or filler...

 

[lndra]

No I'm not. Kurama literally says Sasuke is doing the opposite of what Hagoromo did. Hagoromo created Bijuu so Sasuke can destroy them by combining all 9 into 1. He even has a vessel for it, his PS.

Yes, you are completely wrong here. It's actually confusing to how you even came to such a conclusion, especially since the manga already tells you how it happened. Hagoromo did not split the Juubi with a Gedo Manzou. How do I know this? Because it was never explained how. Wanna know how I destroy your theory for it?

Hagoromo had to split the Juubi, the half inside of him which then turned into the 9 tailed beasts. After he split it, what became left of the Juubi was the Gedo Manzou which became the shell of the Juubi.

No

Well Bijuus are made of chakra. Sasuke only gathered a portion of them to fight against Naruto, he can kill them by simply gathering all of their chakra thus erasing them from existence the opposite way Hagoromo created them out of nothing.

And let me ask you a question, Sasuke showed to ability to absorb chakra, and deva path. Do you think he took a quick course from Hagoromo ? No those abilities came with the Rinnegan instinctively, same as the COAT he used in reverse.

The Bijuu's are created from the Juubi, which mind you was not chakra. It is Senjutsu aka Natural energy.

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It's Kaguya who ate the fruit from the Shinju who then became the first to acquire it's powers, later Hagoromo/Hamura and their Ninshuu legacy, and then today which is now called Ninjutsu.

Sasuke showed the ability to absorb chakra which is a Rinnegan ability, Madara/Nagato/Kaguya all have that power. What are you trying to explain here? It's basic fundamentals here. Not to mention COAT is something only Hagoromo and Naruto performed at all, which mind you Naruto only performed with the Yang Seal:

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u_u

 

[AlphaScythian]

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People have been using the Summoning Jutsu without blood countless times in the manga:

Edo's have no blood to begin with, way to bypass the need of it unknown just like for everything else it bybasses.

Spoiler

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That has nothing to do with assumptions because the manga shows us that it is possible to summon without blood

Off panel performance of seals, the marking and everything yet you claim it was w/o blood?
Biased to the finest.
Not only that, but your arrogance is over burnt while your comprehension is the only thing half baked here.
I did not say summoning w/o blood is not achievable, i said those are different contracts like FTG or the ones used for tools U_U

Spoiler

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Madara used the blood for gedo. Fail U_U

Rest is edo again and you need to grow few more brain cells to be an adequate person able of comprehension of others

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

This said inconsistency only been found in Edo's and kurama's summoning.
I dont know how edo tensei bypasses need for blood but it gets over lots of stuff so its logical to me to make an exeption here.
At the same time as edo zombies summoned this or that w/o blood, team seven did require the blood for their proved traditional contracts.

The case with kurama seems to be different to me in that kurama cannot refuse the summoner therefore i suspect of different type of contract on FTG functional basis that only requires user's chakra presence which is achieved by genjutsu = YIN release which is chakra inside the poor bijuu.

Its only the hypothesis but makes most sense to me

nope.
oh how logical of you :yeah:

 

[Narutohokage324]

snip

It was already explained that both Madara/Obito had a summoning contract with the Kyuubi. You can only summon animals (or in this case Bijuu) when they have placed a seal on them, even Kurama reacted when Madara tried to pull him out with a summoning technique.

Next, Obito had summoned Kurama without pulling an ounce of chakra from his mask. Lastly, there have been instances in the manga where the Summoning Jutsu had been displayed without using a drop of blood. Even in the air, even in the water, and hell even in a parallel dimension (Sasuke).

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I understand what you are saying, but it's probably due to Kurama being totally different from normal summoning animals. They can actually die and bleed, but the Tailed Beasts have never shown that kind of trait. No one should even put Summonings on the same level of Bijuu anyway.

 

[maniaoqan]

Yes, you are completely wrong here. It's actually confusing to how you even came to such a conclusion, especially since the manga already tells you how it happened. Hagoromo did not split the Juubi with a Gedo Manzou. How do I know this? Because it was never explained how. Wanna know how I destroy your theory for it?

Spoiler

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Manga(Kurama) tells me Sasuke did the exact opposite of what Hagoromo did. What Hagoromo did ? He seperated Juubi's chakra and body. He sealed the body into moon and chakra into himself. And just like in the scan he explains, he seperated the Juubi chakra within him into 9 parts which came to known as the Bijuus.

Hagoromo had to split the Juubi, the half inside of him which then turned into the 9 tailed beasts. After he split it, what became left of the Juubi was the Gedo Manzou which became the shell of the Juubi.

No, he didn't created the Bijuus until later on. He already sealed the Shell into moon and its chakra to himself. He decided to creat the Bijuus after seeing Ashura's 'cooperation' stuff.

The Bijuu's are created from the Juubi, which are not chakra. It is Senjutsu aka Natural energy.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Juubi possess chakra. And also possess Natural energy, the chakra of the 9 bijuus are core of the Juubi. If you have more chakra, than you draw natural energy more and quickly. Senjutsu isn't natural energy, its the form of chakra which is combined with natural energy.

It's Kaguya who ate the fruit from the Shinju who then became the first to acquire it's powers, later Hagoromo/Hamura and their Ninshuu legacy, and then today which is now called Ninjutsu.

Thanks for the history lesson, I'm not arguing how ninjutsu came to be.

Sasuke showed the ability the absorb chakra which is a Rinnegan ability, Madara/Nagato/Kaguya all have that power. What are you trying to explain here? It's basic fundamentals here. Not to mention COAT is something only Hagoromo and Naruto performed at all, which mind you Naruto only performed with the Yang Seal:

Spoiler

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u_u

Well in the manga it is stated you can have Rinnegan only if you have both Indra and Ashura's chakras together. With your logic he shouldn't have the Rinnegan in the first place. Sasuke literally showed the ability to use COAT while he created fake Juubi with his PS.

You're just sugar coating your words.

''He's merging all of the disseminated chakra into one.''
''It's like Six Paths Geezer's level. Well, Except that he's doing the reverse thing.''

I mean how much more clear this can get for you people to understand ?
Were you expecting Kurama to give a detailed analysis of how RS's jutsu works and Sasuke's works than compare them in a couple chapters ?