[THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't have...

Awkward Linguist

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
24,034
Reaction score
1,958
[THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't have...

After reading UchiGod Itachi's post I had an idea as to why some jutsus don't have an existing counter and how that relates to whether it's a sideline character or a main character.

Because with Kotoamatsukami Itachi wrecks a majority of people in his sleep lol a genjutsu strong enough to break him out of edo tensei which madara couldn't put 4 edos in Infinite Tsukuyomi genjutsu with A Sharinnengan,rinnengan ,9 bijuu, holy tree,& Hashirama DNA ain't no countering that unless you have some Rikudou chakra at top form your done for lol.


You see had shisui been one of the main characters, that OP genjutsu would have been countered long ago. Powerful techniques used by main characters such as Tsukuyomi/Limbo/Susano/Ama/Izanagi have all been countered because as one of the main characters it could be spammed all day to defeat the villains. Side characters don't get to spam techs like main characters. For example you don't see Nagato spamming chibaku tensei or Itachi spamming amaterasu repeatedly like naruto does with rasengan, because side characters don't get that chance, therefore kishimoto gives them OP powers and doesn't need to worry about having a counter to them. Side characters with overpowered flawless techniques is for kishimoto to manipulate to get out of plot problems. I.e. Totsuka blade and Yamato mirror were invented by kishi and given to a side character, Itachi, so that he could survive Kirin and rid of the Oro residing within sasuke. Kishimoto also gave it to him because later on in the war arc he'd need it to seal Edo Nagato - Edo nagato being the plot problem. Now here's my main point. You see if Itachi was a main character kishimoto wouldn't have given Itachi these powerful weapon duo because he would destroy any villain and there will be no plot progression. Say if he did, kishimoto would have no choice but to created a counter for the weapon duo, all because of the fact that Itachi has that chance to spam it. And so with every fight naruto manga readers would be expecting Itachi to win.

To summarise my point;

> Said side line character with no overall effect on the end plot can have overpowered jutsus (such as Komoamatsukami) without any counter. This is useful for author to manipulate to neutralise a problem

> Said main character with overall effect on the end plot can have overpowered jutsus as long as there is a counter to it. This will allow villain's to remain superior for a longer time until the main character receives a power up. I.e. Naruto's overpowered Rasenshuriken can be countered by Pein's absorption doujutsu.
I.e. if Shisui was a main character his overpowered komoamtsukami would have had an existing counter that can be used against him.

> Said main character with overall effect on the plot can't have overpowered jutsu's without a counter because they said main character has that chance to spam it, thus becoming superior to any villain by default.

> So it's okay for said sideline characters to have powers that don't have an existing counter because they don't have that chance to spam it (unlike a main character), and it would be useful later on for the author to manipulate it to get out of a problem.

I.e. Shisui can have Komoamatsuki (which currently doesn't have an existing counter) because he doesn't have that chance to spam it, and later on Kishimoto could use it to get out of a problem. For example Itachi being under the control of Kabuto was a problem. Therefore kishimoto manipulated komoamatsuki by using Itachi to free himself with it.



Thanks for reading and no trolling please.


Thoughts?​
 

Amaterasu

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
4,894
Reaction score
410
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

You see if Itachi was a main character kishimoto wouldn't have given Itachi these powerful weapon duo because he would destroy any villain and there will be no plot progression

He isn't already a main character ? But otherwise, I agree with all of your points. Yes, Kishi used many asspulls etc... Everybody knows that
 

BLAZE

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
59,497
Reaction score
3,577
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

I agree
[Add Random] Linguist for Mod
 

Conspirator.

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
19,435
Reaction score
3,378
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

He isn't already a main character ? But otherwise, I agree with all of your points. Yes, Kishi used many asspulls etc... Everybody knows that

Itachi is a side character.

OT: Yes, you're right. It's all about the plot and how the character impacts it at the end of the day.
 

Awkward Linguist

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
24,034
Reaction score
1,958
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

He isn't already a main character ? But otherwise, I agree with all of your points. Yes, Kishi used many asspulls etc... Everybody knows that

I agree
[Add Random] Linguist for Mod

Itachi is a side character.

OT: Yes, you're right. It's all about the plot and how the character impacts it at the end of the day.

thx for reading :D
 

Ansatsuken

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
27,345
Reaction score
3,810
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Yeah, I agree with you

That's how some authors used NLF power in manga, he pick not a primary characters or side characters and give them OP power but with special condition like 1 year cooldown time as example.

Actually its not an easy job to kill even a side characters especially the one that possesses No counter tech. Shisui able to be kill is because his Koto cant be spam like Tsukuyomi, if Koto is spammable no way Danzo could stole his eye.
 

awesomeseimei

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 11, 2013
Messages
6,813
Reaction score
411
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Indeed. Those techs are either plot devices or obstacles to overcome. After all, some of them (like Edo Tensei) are first hyped to have no weaknesses, but later we learn that it isn't so.
 

Awkward Linguist

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
24,034
Reaction score
1,958
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Yeah, I agree with you

That's how some authors used NLF power in manga, he pick not a primary characters or side characters and give them OP power but with special condition like 1 year cooldown time as example.

Actually its not an easy job to kill even a side characters especially the one that possesses No counter tech. Shisui able to be kill is because his Koto cant be spam like Tsukuyomi, if Koto is spammable no way Danzo could stole his eye.

I agree, thanks for reading! :D

Indeed. Those techs are either plot devices or obstacles to overcome. After all, some of them (like Edo Tensei) are first hyped to have no weaknesses, but later we learn that it isn't so.

Yeah hype always comes first to make the chapter more spicy b4 it's countered (truth seeking balls). Thx for reading also
 
Last edited:

AlphaScythian

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
1,023
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Itachi never had KA that he could use.
In his possession it has always been on cool down, until he gave it away to naruto.

Kamui shits regardless

MCs however have PnJ and TnJ, both OP that were spammed quite a lot
 

Awkward Linguist

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
24,034
Reaction score
1,958
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

MCs however have PnJ and TnJ, both OP that were spammed quite a lot

PnJ as in plot no jutsu? Well Naruto does have a storyline; it's not a free manga where anything can happen. Naruto goes according to the written plot by kishi. It's not a jutsu, so it's not actually spammed. Talking and making villains realize what they're doing is wrong is part of the story. You can't expect naruto to beat the living shit out of a villain to the point where he becomes a good guy.
 

awesomeseimei

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 11, 2013
Messages
6,813
Reaction score
411
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Plot shield is understandable but it does kill suspense sometimes. But then again, this is applicable to many works of fiction.
 

iNotorious

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
80,546
Reaction score
4,116
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

After reading UchiGod Itachi's post I had an idea as to why some jutsus don't have an existing counter and how that relates to whether it's a sideline character or a main character.




You see had shisui been one of the main characters, that OP genjutsu would have been countered long ago. Powerful techniques used by main characters such as Tsukuyomi/Limbo/Susano/Ama/Izanagi have all been countered because as one of the main characters it could be spammed all day to defeat the villains. Side characters don't get to spam techs like main characters. For example you don't see Nagato spamming chibaku tensei or Itachi spamming amaterasu repeatedly like naruto does with rasengan, because side characters don't get that chance, therefore kishimoto gives them OP powers and doesn't need to worry about having a counter to them. Side characters with overpowered flawless techniques is for kishimoto to manipulate to get out of plot problems. I.e. Totsuka blade and Yamato mirror were invented by kishi and given to a side character, Itachi, so that he could survive Kirin and rid of the Oro residing within sasuke. Kishimoto also gave it to him because later on in the war arc he'd need it to seal Edo Nagato - Edo nagato being the plot problem. Now here's my main point. You see if Itachi was a main character kishimoto wouldn't have given Itachi these powerful weapon duo because he would destroy any villain and there will be no plot progression. Say if he did, kishimoto would have no choice but to created a counter for the weapon duo, all because of the fact that Itachi has that chance to spam it. And so with every fight naruto manga readers would be expecting Itachi to win.


To summarise my point;

> Said side line character with no overall effect on the end plot can have overpowered jutsus (such as Komoamatsukami) without any counter. This is useful for author to manipulate to neutralise a problem

> Said main character with overall effect on the end plot can have overpowered jutsus as long as there is a counter to it. This will allow villain's to remain superior for a longer time until the main character receives a power up. I.e. Naruto's overpowered Rasenshuriken can be countered by Pein's absorption doujutsu.
I.e. if Shisui was a main character his overpowered komoamtsukami would have had an existing counter that can be used against him.

> Said main character with overall effect on the plot can't have overpowered jutsu's without a counter because they said main character has that chance to spam it, thus becoming superior to any villain by default.

> So it's okay for said sideline characters to have powers that don't have an existing counter because they don't have that chance to spam it (unlike a main character), and it would be useful later on for the author to manipulate it to get out of a problem.

I.e. Shisui can have Komoamatsuki (which currently doesn't have an existing counter) because he doesn't have that chance to spam it, and later on Kishimoto could use it to get out of a problem. For example Itachi being under the control of Kabuto was a problem. Therefore kishimoto manipulated komoamatsuki by using Itachi to free himself with it.



Thanks for reading and no trolling please.


Thoughts?​

I agree and I kind of see that in all mangas or animes that I have been reading or watching. Main characters get a super OP power, few chapters later or episodes, that power isn't that impressive anymore.

The counter for itachi spamming that would be the low stamina that he has.
 

BenjerminGaye

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
19,423
Reaction score
823
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

But obito and Kakashi abused the fck outta kamui yet there's no hard counter for it besides itself.

That right there is proof on what's really op(kamui by feats) and what seems to be op (yata, toteska by hype)

2 cents.
 

V h o

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
16,796
Reaction score
815
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Yeah basically. A main character's jutus/power is always correlated to plot; usually only needed to beat a certain characters and then they lose their effectiveness as the plot progresses.
 

Aznkidd

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
7,437
Reaction score
401
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Every jutsu has a weakness. Just because we are not smart and observe enough to figure out it's weakness to counter
 

Xlad

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
21,625
Reaction score
2,033
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Every jutsu has a weakness. Just because we are not smart and observe enough to figure out it's weakness to counter
Exactly this. There's always a counter against it. It doesn't necessarily have to be during a jutsu's usage. Counters can also involve stopping a character fron using a certain jutsu beforehand.

I do however, see what your points are. How counters work are usually plot-correlated.
 

LogicnoJutsu

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
3,366
Reaction score
352
Re: [THEORY] Why some Jutsus have no existing counter & why main characters can't hav

Kotoamatsukamis weakness is its unreliability. Plus you go blind eventually after use of Mangekyo techniques.

So even tho it is an OP genjutsu that no existing jutsu can break its extremely limited.

Not to mention you can use it once every 10 years unless you get some Senju dna.

Shisui did not and would never stoop so low as to get some. Its against his nature.
 
Top