Rinne-Sharingan Madara vs Adult Sasuke

[Zee U]

Madara's PS is theoretically enhanced with rikudo chakra,rikudo senjutsu ,jiubi chairs ,so it would be way stronger than sasuke's non biju PS ,on par with biju PS or even above it

Don't know what do you mean by "Juubi chairs", but the boosts coming from the Rikudou Juubi Coffin Seal are Rikudou Chakra and Nature energy, that when combined bring forth Rikudou Senjutsu. Madara's own is inferior to that of Naruto going by the databook. Sasuke has half of Hagoromo's chakra. Even if we assume that Madara's Rikudou Senjutsu gives a boost superior to that of half of Hagoromo's chakra himself, his Susanoo isn't even near the level of Sasuke's Raiton Susanoo.

 

[wael reda]

Don't know what do you mean by "Juubi chairs", but the boosts coming from the Rikudou Juubi Coffin Seal are Rikudou Chakra and Nature energy, that when combined bring forth Rikudou Senjutsu. Madara's own is inferior to that of Naruto going by the databook. Sasuke has half of Hagoromo's chakra. Even if we assume that Madara's Rikudou Senjutsu gives a boost superior to that of half of Hagoromo's chakra himself, his Susanoo isn't even near the level of Sasuke's Raiton Susanoo.

Data book says that naruto's reflexes is on par with madara's or superior ,that doesn't mean that naruto has more chakra than someone who has the whole jiubi chakra ,naruto was even surprised that there is someone whose chakra is bigger than madara's or jiubi ,kiuybi described jiubi's nature chakra as unmeasurable while he was the one who gathered for naruto the max nature energy ,madara should be able to enhance his PS with the jiubi chakra he has ,while sasuke's biju PS is just enhanced with rikudo chakra plus some of biju chakra

 

[Zee U]

Data book says that naruto's reflexes is on par with madara's or superior ,that doesn't mean that naruto has more chakra than someone who has the whole jiubi chakra ,madara should be able to enhance his PS with the jiubi chakra he has ,while sasuke's biju PS is just enhanced with rikudo chakra plus some of biju chakra

Reactions that come from the Rikudou Senjutsu he has. Not to mention that Madara had his Rinnegan, not only the Senjutsu. RS is:

Tailed beast chakra + nature energy

Madara has more of the former, but Naruto also has the Rikudou Chakra, that make up for the Shinju. And going by portrayal we have Raiton Susanoo stalemating with Ashura Kyuubi Avatar, which is made of: Naruto's chakra + Kurama's chakra + half of Hagoromo's chakra + the planet's nature chakra (which is > the Shinju). Madara can hope at best to surpass Sasuke's PS.

 

[wael reda]

Reactions that come from the Rikudou Senjutsu he has. Not to mention that Madara had his Rinnegan, not only the Senjutsu. RS is:

Tailed beast chakra + nature energy

Madara has more of the former, but Naruto also has the Rikudou Chakra, that make up for the Shinju. And going by portrayal we have Raiton Susanoo stalemating with Ashura Kyuubi Avatar, which is made of: Naruto's chakra + Kurama's chakra + half of Hagoromo's chakra + the planet's nature chakra (which is > the Shinju). Madara can hope at best to surpass Sasuke's PS.

Madara has much more tailed beasts chakra than naruto not just more (don't twist things now) ,much more nature energy(jiubi's unmeasurable nature energy ) and also has rikudo chakra comes with the jiubi and kaguya's chakra
the planet nature energy !!? Oh I see ,the wank is so strong with you here

Madara's chakra was stated to be far above naruto's when naruto and sasuke themselves couldn't believe that kaguya has more chakra than madara

The bold: naruto's chakra is irrelevant here , bro Lol

 

[Zee U]

Madara has much more tailed beasts chakra than naruto not just more (don't twist things now) ,

I know, already said that.

much more nature energy(jiubi's unmeasurable nature energy )

Which is still less than the planet's nature energy.

and also has rikudo chakra comes with the jiubi and kaguya's chakra

Rikudou senjutsu, being a Juubi Jinchuuriki doesn't grant you Rikudou chakra itself. Kaguya's chakra? Since when?

the planet nature energy !!? Oh I see ,the wank is so strong with you her

Shit talking won't bring you anywhere.

Madara's chakra was stated to be far above naruto's

It was never stated.

when naruto and sasuke themselves couldn't believe that kaguya has more chakra than madara

They never compared Kaguya's own chakra to Madara. In fact, Madara turned into a baloon when some of her chakra went into him last time i checked.

The bold: naruto's chakra is irrelevant here , bro Lol

Naruto's chakra is also composed of the other Bijuu's chakra, his senjutsu and the big reserves he has.

 

[Raykyryn]

Reactions that come from the Rikudou Senjutsu he has. Not to mention that Madara had his Rinnegan, not only the Senjutsu. RS is:

Tailed beast chakra + nature energy

Madara has more of the former, but Naruto also has the Rikudou Chakra, that make up for the Shinju. And going by portrayal we have Raiton Susanoo stalemating with Ashura Kyuubi Avatar, which is made of: Naruto's chakra + Kurama's chakra + half of Hagoromo's chakra + the planet's nature chakra (which is > the Shinju). Madara can hope at best to surpass Sasuke's PS.

Thats impossible.

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^ senjutsu chakra is a mixture of chakra, body and natural energy. Naruto at VotE was already on low chakra level ,in other words he didnt have enough chakta that could compensate such a huge amount of natural energy what the planet has.

 

[Blunt]

Considering OP said hypothetical abilities, and Madara has already performed this, the use of Wood Clones or Shadow Clones can benefit Madara greatly. Naruto himself has created multiple Kurama avatars in his Rikudo state, to say Madara, who possesses greater chakra and more potent chakra can't replicate something of this nature is wrong.

Madara can potentially make far greater CT than we've already seen, his last showcase was merely to distract Naruto and Sasuke and give him time to activate IT. He also considered them "raindrops". Naruto also dealt with the majority of the CT in their last battle.

He can potentially even pull Sasuke's PS directly into a falling CT in the same fashion he pulled the two meteors when casting Tengai Shinsei, which would obliterate Sasuke's Susano'o.

Considering those few points, Madara stands a solid chance in my opinion.

 

[wael reda]

I know, already said that.

No ,you said madara has more of the former ,while madara actually has much more of the former

Which is still less than the planet's nature energy.

Please,where was it stated to be planet's nature energy? You just talk with BS and think that would persuade anyone with a brain !!!?
If you have a scan or a proof that naruto's max nature energy is more than the jiubi 's unmeasurable nature energy then bring it to the table ,dont be miserly .
As far as I am concerned ,the kiuybi described jiubi's nature energy to be unmeasurable ,the same guy who gathered for naruto that nature energy in the vote which you call the planet's nature energy Lol

Rikudou senjutsu, being a Juubi Jinchuuriki doesn't grant you Rikudou chakra itself. Kaguya's chakra? Since when?

No ,it grants you ,you misunderstand everything here ,rikudo chakra was only that good because of his mother who is the jiubi itself ,so the jiubi chakra basically is the source of rikudo chakra ,not that only but DMS kakashi was stated to have rikudo chakra which obi to stole from madara ,which means madara has rikudo chakra

Yes ,madara has all kaguya's chakra aside from the chakra that comes from the people caught in IT since he has the jiubi and the shinju

Shit talking won't bring you anywhere.

Wow,really? Am I the one who talk with BS or you ?

It was never stated.



They never compared Kaguya's own chakra to Madara. In fact, Madara turned into a baloon when some of her chakra went into him last time i checked.

No ,naruto said ,it is even bigger than the jiubi (who madara has) [

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]

Naruto's chakra is also composed of the other Bijuu's chakra, his senjutsu and the big reserves he has.

Irrelevant ,madara has also his chakra ,some of hashirama chakra ,hashirama's senjutsu chakra ,the biju chakra naruto has is much less than that madara has

 

[KidGamer65]

Madara's PS is theoretically enhanced with rikudo chakra,rikudo senjutsu ,jiubi chairs ,so it would be way stronger than sasuke's non biju PS ,on par with biju PS or even above it

Developing bigger chidori doesn't mean his Susano would get stronger too since he made his chidori bigger by training not by a chakra boost ,it is like saying when alive EMS madara develobed his jiubi sized katon,his Susano got magically stronger Lol
But if his chidori got bigger by a chakra boost (more rikudo chakra ,senjutsu or kuarma cloak ..etc ) then ,yes his susano should theoretically be stronger ,but that isn't the case here

Developing bigger chidori means bigger chidori nothing less or more

I suggest we learn how Ninjutsu gets stronger. Ninjutsu gets stronger when your chakra or spiritual energy, can't remember which one, gets stronger. Training and other factors increase your spiritual energy. If Chidori got stronger, Sasuke's chakra got stronger, thus his Susnaoo got stronger, as the strength of Ninjutsu is determined by skill and strength of chakra.

EMS Sasuke's chakra is not on par with Rinnegan Sasuke's, so Rinnegan Sasuke has a better Susanoo. Same principle here.

 

[Dantee]

With hypothetical abilities Madara would win. Given the abilities in the manga I think Adult Sasuke wins especially after seeing how much his power has jumped from a 2 year time span with his Rinnegan. Multiplying that power into his adult hood and mastering his Rinnegan Sasuke should take this.

 

[wael reda]

I suggest we learn how Ninjutsu gets stronger. Ninjutsu gets stronger when your chakra or spiritual energy, can't remember which one, gets stronger. Training and other factors increase your spiritual energy. If Chidori got stronger, Sasuke's chakra got stronger, thus his Susnaoo got stronger, as the strength of Ninjutsu is determined by skill and strength of chakra.

EMS Sasuke's chakra is not on par with Rinnegan Sasuke's, so Rinnegan Sasuke has a better Susanoo. Same principle here.

I don't remember when it was said that you need to spiritual energy to get stronger to develop your jutsu


whatever ,there is another highly possible scenario ,that sasuke could increase his chidori's scale by training to use more chakra in the chidori which means he didn't increase or empower his chakra/spiritual energy but he just learnt to control more chakra in the chidori ,I mean you don't know how much chakra the large scale costs him ,it would need much more chakra of course ,it isnt like if obito's normal katon costs him as much chakra as the jiubi sized katon ,that doesn't mean his chakra/spiritual energy gets weakened everytime before he uses the normal sized katon ,he just uses less chakra

For example naruto learnt how to make his rasengan much stronger by using more wind chakra in it ,does it means his chakra got stronger ? No ofc


The Conclusion : the last sasuke's using bigger chidori means he learnt to put bigger amount of chakra in it to make it bigger ,it doesn't mean he made his chakra stronger or bigger ,unless you think that vote sasuke hasnt the enough chakra to use such a large scale chidori,maybe he hasn't the skill to use such an amount of chakra at his chidori but he surly has the enough chakra ,just like how maybe he hasn't the skill to use larger scaled katon but he surly has the enough chakra to do so

 

[KidGamer65]

I don't remember when it was said that you need to spiritual energy to get stronger to develop your jutsu

Don't remember where the scan is, I'll try and find it, but my argument doesn't change since more potent chakra does equal a stronger jutsu, and that's definitely a fact seeing Sasuke's power before and after Hagoromo's chakra.

whatever ,there is another highly possible scenario ,that sasuke could increase his chidori's scale by training to use more chakra in the chidori which means he didn't increase or empower his chakra/spiritual energy but he just learnt to control more chakra in the chidori ,I mean you don't know how much chakra the large scale costs him ,it would need much more chakra of course ,it isnt like if obito's normal katon costs him as much chakra as the jiubi sized katon ,that doesn't mean his chakra/spiritual energy gets weakened everytime before he uses the normal sized katon ,he just uses less chakra

It'd be bigger, much bigger if that was because of there being more chakra. When he jumped, we would have seen the silhouette of this much larger Chidori, so you are wrong on this point. His Chidori got stronger because of better chakra.

Obito's Katon isn't the same size as his Juubi Sized Katon, nor are they the same jutsu, thus your example doesn't hold.

For example naruto learnt how to make his rasengan much stronger by using more wind chakra in it ,does it means his chakra got stronger ? No ofc

Lol, I like how you decided to ignore the fact that he added a DIFFERENT TYPE OF CHAKRA TO IT. A better example would be him adding more chakra into his Rasengan to make it more powerful, but even then that makes no sense because Rasengan gets stronger when he does that.

The Conclusion : the last sasuke's using bigger chidori means he learnt to put bigger amount of chakra in it to make it bigger
,it doesn't mean he made his chakra stronger or bigger ,unless you think that vote sasuke hasnt the enough chakra to use such a large scale chidori,maybe he hasn't the skill to use such an amount of chakra at his chidori but he surly has the enough chakra ,just like how maybe he hasn't the skill to use larger scaled katon but he surly has the enough chakra to do so

Not only do you have no proof for the bold, his Chidori showed no dramatic increase in size. So that ends your little assumption. VoTE Sasuke not having enough chakra is irrelevant as chakra amount=/=power of your jutsu.

 

[wael reda]

Don't remember where the scan is, I'll try and find it, but my argument doesn't change since more potent chakra does equal a stronger jutsu, and that's definitely a fact seeing Sasuke's power before and after Hagoromo's chakra.

Okey

It'd be bigger, much bigger if that was because of there being more chakra. When he jumped, we would have seen the silhouette of this much larger Chidori, so you are wrong on this point. His Chidori got stronger because of better chakra.

Lol,basically hebi sasuke sasuke showed the ability to increase his chidori scale at particual moment which he called chidori nagashi[

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] ,so my points is still there ,he just increased his chidori scale to destroy the meteor ,we even saw chidori contain the meteor before destroying it ,that means his chidori was bigger at that moment

Obito's Katon isn't the same size as his Juubi Sized Katon, nor are they the same jutsu, thus your example doesn't hold.

My point it is still there too

Lol, I like how you decided to ignore the fact that he added a DIFFERENT TYPE OF CHAKRA TO IT. A better example would be him adding more chakra into his Rasengan to make it more powerful, but even then that makes no sense because Rasengan gets stronger when he does that.

My point is still there since sasuke also increased his chidori's scale to destroy the meteor

Not only do you have no proof for the bold, his Chidori showed no dramatic increase in size. So that ends your little assumption. VoTE Sasuke not having enough chakra is irrelevant as chakra amount=/=power of your jutsu.

My point is still there since sasuke also increased his jutsu scale


Off topic but let me correct you something ,the jutsu can be stronger by putting more chakra without the jutsu getting bigger ,that is called concentrated chakra ,which is the case with the raikiri ,it has more concentrated chakra ,also AY 's hell stab finger numbers ,here he jutsu even gets smaller but stronger and more concentrated ,just like how the last naruto concentrated his whole chakra mode in his rasengan to make it stronger,however it didn't get bigger

 

[KidGamer65]

Okey



Lol,basically hebi sasuke sasuke showed the ability to increase his chidori scale at particual moment which he called chidori nagashi[

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] ,so my points is still there ,he just increased his chidori scale to destroy the meteor ,we even saw chidori contain the meteor before destroying it ,that means his chidori was bigger at that moment

That's not increasing it's scale, that's increasing it's range. Chidori Nagashi is still weaker than an ordinary Chidori.

That wasn't Chidori before impact, that was the impact of the Chidori. Unless you have pics that show his Chidori being much larger while it's still on his hand, your point doesn't stand.

My point is still there since sasuke also increased his chidori's scale to destroy the meteor

Scale and size are not the same exact thing. His Chidori is at a higher scale because stronger chakra is used to form it. Naruto and Sasuke's Rasengan were around the same size they were at the Land of Iron after Danzo's defeat, when they clashed at VoTE, but you know what happened? The impact at VoTE>>>>>Impact at the bridge.

Same goes for VoTE 1. They clashed with Rasengan and Chidori, but when their chakra was empowered by Kyuubi and Curse Mark respectively, the size remained the same but the scale increased. Same principle here.

Off topic but let me correct you something ,the jutsu can be stronger by putting more chakra without the jutsu getting bigger ,that is called concentrated chairs ,which is the case with the raikiri ,it has more concentrated chakra ,also AY 's hell stab finger numbers ,here he jutsu even gets smaller but stronger and more concentrated ,just like how the last naruto concentrated his whole chakra mode in his rasengan to make it stronger,however it didn't get bigger

Except that's the creation of a new type of jutsu, Sasuke doesn't do that, otherwise he'd be using Raikiri and not Chidori, so that doesn't help your argument,a nd with Ay's Hell Stab, it does get bigger. The tip extends.

He concentrated his whole chakra mode to his right arm, not his Rasengan. It was that powerful because all of Naruto's power was put into one focused area, not the same thing as what we are talking about.

 

[wael reda]

That's not increasing it's scale, that's increasing it's range. Chidori Nagashi is still weaker than an ordinary Chidori.

That wasn't Chidori before impact, that was the impact of the Chidori. Unless you have pics that show his Chidori being much larger while it's still on his hand, your point doesn't stand.

I dont get that part ,make it clearer ,please

Scale and size are not the same exact thing. His Chidori is at a higher scale because stronger chakra is used to form it. Naruto and Sasuke's Rasengan were around the same size they were at the Land of Iron after Danzo's defeat, when they clashed at VoTE, but you know what happened? The impact at VoTE>>>>>Impact at the bridge.

Same goes for VoTE 1. They clashed with Rasengan and Chidori, but when their chakra was empowered by Kyuubi and Curse Mark respectively, the size remained the same but the scale increased. Same principle here.

I got the point about the scale and the range ,but with that ,we shouldnt have seen his chidori flows through the meteor unless if sasuke did that by using wide range chidori nagashi ,I mean if his chidori got stronger ,it should have destroyed the meteor by just hitting it without flowing through it

Except that's the creation of a new type of jutsu, Sasuke doesn't do that, otherwise he'd be using Raikiri and not Chidori, so that doesn't help your argument

But the manga and the data book ,describes it as more concentrated version of chidori

a nd with Ay's Hell Stab, it does get bigger. The tip extends.

But the wide decreases which mean the jutsu size stay the same or even decreases

He concentrated his whole chakra mode to his right arm, not his Rasengan. It was that powerful because all of Naruto's power was put into one focused area, not the same thing as what we are talking about.

Why it isnt the same thing ,his chairs arm didn't got bigger ,despite having much more chakra

 

[KidGamer65]

I dont get that part ,make it clearer ,please

Chidori and Chidori Nagashi are not equal in scale. Chidori is>>Chidori Nagashi. Nagashi is only a Chidori that is spread out.

The Meteor was blown up because the scale of Chidori increased, not because the size increased.

I got the point about the scale and the range ,but with that ,we shouldnt have seen his chidori flows through the meteor unless if sasuke did that by using wide range chidori nagashi ,I mean if his chidori got stronger ,it should have destroyed the meteor by just hitting it without flowing through it

That "flowing through it" effect is nothing but the electricity going throughout the rock as it hit it. Not relevant to your or my argument in any way, shape or form. His Chidori was normal sized, but with a larger scale. His Chidori didn't increase in size.

But the manga and the data book ,describes it as more concentrated version of chidori

I know. Raikiri is a more concentrated Chidori, which makes Raikiri.

But the wide decreases which mean the jutsu size stay the same or even decreases

The width never changes. The tip only extends as the number of fingers goes down.

Why it isnt the same thing ,his chairs arm didn't got bigger ,despite having much more chakra

Because he wasn't adding chakra to his arm, he was only focusing it to his arm. Completely different.

 

[Benjamin King]

hahaha

 

[wael reda]

Chidori and Chidori Nagashi are not equal in scale. Chidori is>>Chidori Nagashi. Nagashi is only a Chidori that is spread out.

The chidori is supposed to be a piercing jutsu but it has side destructive power ,chidori nagashi has no piercing power but destructive one ,so basically ,if really what are you saying was right ,then the meteor should have been cut into half ,but that isn't the case here ,the meteor was destroyed ,that leads me to think that sasuke used wide range chidori nagashi to destroy the meteor

The Meteor was blown up because the scale of Chidori increased, not because the size increased.

Then it should have been cut in half not blown away ,it looks like a chidori nagashi impact more than a chidori impact

That "flowing through it" effect is nothing but the electricity going throughout the rock as it hit it. Not relevant to your or my argument in any way, shape or form. His Chidori was normal sized, but with a larger scale. His Chidori didn't increase in size.

But ,the chakra won't flow like that unless if sasuke forced it to do or if there was a water ,it looks like a chidori nagashi more and more

I know. Raikiri is a more concentrated Chidori, which makes Raikiri.

So the raikiri is a chidori that possess more chakra ,however it didn't got bigger

The width never changes. The tip only extends as the number of fingers goes down

.

No the width changes ,the hell stab width is determined by the fingers width ,so 4 fingers's width is bigger than one finger's width however as you said it acquires much more length ,so the size doesn't change or gets a little bigger ,so I drop this example

Because he wasn't adding chakra to his arm, he was only focusing it to his arm. Completely different.

Needs to explain the focusing part and how that is difference

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Lmao, Sasuke negs this shit.

VOTE2 Sasuke Mid diffs

 

[Zee U]

No ,you said madara has more of the former ,while madara actually has much more of the forme

Come on that's nitpicking mate

Please,where was it stated to be planet's nature energy? You just talk with BS and think that would persuade anyone with a brain !!!?

A native japanese speaker on NF translated the RAW of that chapter and he explicitly said that the clone absorbed the planet's nature energy. If you want the source PM me, we can't post narutoforums link.

If you have a scan or a proof that naruto's max nature energy is more than the jiubi 's unmeasurable nature energy then bring it to the table ,dont be miserly .

The planet's nature energy compared to the Juubi's nature energy

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.

As far as I am concerned ,the kiuybi described jiubi's nature energy to be unmeasurable ,the same guy who gathered for naruto that nature energy in the vote which you call the planet's nature energy Lol

Stomp comparing normal characters to their Rikudou empowered versions. Naruto and Sasuke measured Kaguya's chakra, and said that it was superior to Madara's (which included the Juubi's, Madara and Senjutsu chakra). If SM Naruto couldn't measure the chakra of the Juubi, it doesn't mean RBSM Naruto can't. Plus in that scan i posted for you, the sensing sphere measured the Juubi and the planet's nature energy.

No ,it grants you ,you misunderstand everything here ,rikudo chakra was only that good because of his mother who is the jiubi itself ,so the jiubi chakra basically is the source of rikudo chakra ,not that only but DMS kakashi was stated to have rikudo chakra which obi to stole from madara ,which means madara has rikudo chakra

Your argument falls apart once again since Hagoromo's power doesn't come from the Juubi's chakra, but from Kaguya. Kaguya and the Juubi/Shinju are separate beings, and their chakra is vastly different. Hagoromo said it (

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) Sasuke said it, Naruto too. Which is also proved by feats: RSM Naruto trashed around Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara pre Shinju. Someone with the full Juubi was stomped effortlessly by an individual with half of Hagoromo's chakra, his Yang half.

Yes ,madara has all kaguya's chakra aside from the chakra that comes from the people caught in IT since he has the jiubi and the shinju

Another misconception from your part.

No ,naruto said ,it is even bigger than the jiubi (who madara has) [

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What is that scan supposed to show for your argument? In fact, you contradicted yourself by saying Kaguya has more chakra than the Juubi. You still need to show me when Madara's chakra was stated to be better than Naruto's.

Irrelevant ,madara has also his chakra ,some of hashirama chakra ,hashirama's senjutsu chakra ,the biju chakra naruto has is much less than that madara has

And he lacks the yang half of Hagoromo's chakra. That's what you aren't grasping here.


Madara's PS = Rikudou Senjutsu + Madara's chakra + Juubi's vast reserves

Sasuke's Raiton Iso Susanoo = Yin half of Hagoromo + Sasuke's chakra + the Bijuu's chakra

Bijuu's chakra = Juubi's chakra. Sasuke's chakra =< Madara's chakra. Yin half of Hagoromo >>>> Rikudou Senjutsu and whatever small portion of Rikudou chakra Madara has. Madara's PS may be better than Sasuke's standard PS, but it falls leagues behind the mega chakrazords of VOTE.