Bunta was indeed overpowered, but held his own non the less. Bunta would have never been caught by any of the Sand attacks in that particular battle, but a TBB ofc would have did the job. Bunta crushing Kurama was brought up not because of Food cart destroyer, but because of him still holding the Kyuibi down and the Kyubi not being able to do shit about it. Getting hit with a Hammer from above is one thing, not being able to get the hammer from on top means you don't have more power/force to deny the hammers Pressure/weigh from keeping you in check is another. I never once said he had destructive power like Bijuu (obv he has no chakra base attacks, just pure Might!)
Well there you go, you practically said it yourself. Boss summons aren't on Bijuu level. I know Manda is slightly overall stronger then Bunta, but it isn't by a huge margin to suggest Manda is in a whole different tier ahead of a boss summon class. Ichibi was just playing around with Bunta and quickly overwhelmed him with minimal amount of effort with his fuuton alone... that should tell you they're on two different pedestals in terms of overall power.
6 Tails is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Too slow for Manda! No diff avoids every single thing in its aresenal! It's Skin is not corrosive, as seen when the Kyubi not only had it's fist in it's mouth, but when he slammed the slug to another Bijuu the other Bijuu was not harmed as well. You are thinking of the Ninjutsu the 6 tails V2 JINJURIKI USED I believe. The 5 Tails uses The Steam style to create Power and Momentum for its hits and speed. Again, Manda is too fast for him and would No diff bind and Swallow him eventually. And lol.. Melting Ice... Really? Not to mention that was Naruto with the god amp of Rikudo chakra that put everything in an entire different league. lol STick to what the Bijuu actually showed and Not God characters please! 4 Tails would eventually get constricted and swallowed, everything is avoided no diff and he is too slow. 3 tails is no different. 2 fodder. 1 is bothersome because of the sand body, so it wins just because you can't swallow sand by default.lol
When a Jin is in V2 mode, they're using the chakra from their Bijuu to enter that mode. So it doesn't make any sense to say a V2 Jin has access to a certain technique in V2 but not full Bijuu mode when it's the same exact chakra, just different amounts.
Saiken is slow in speed, but it's AoE techniques more then compensats. It's actually a fairly interesting and strong Bijuu, now that I look at it's feats.
Add these three together, and Manda isn't doing anything to Saiken:
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Anyways, I literally just lost everything I wrote from this point and further, so I'm done discussing this particular topic. If you still think boss summons are Bijuu level, then let's agree to disagree, because I really don't have to the time to retype everything and this doesn't really have anything to do with the match-up.
:Just as much power as a Jin, NOT PERFECT JIN! Two different leagues, manga fact! Uness you are syaing all jins are equal to Naruto and Bee????????? Next! "Bijuu with No tail" doesn't mean "he can beat and is equal to all 9 Bijuu", where do you see that at? Again, A shit load of chakras have Bijuu level chakra and allot more deadly strikes the Kisame, doesnt mean they can fight on par and defeat a Bijuu. 3rd Raikage was the only ninja excluding Madara and Hashirama that could fight equally with any Bijuu with no spl weapons or seals or trying to control them. And if you say Kisame is Bijuu level then Aye, Tsunade, KinGin, Tobirama etc etc are all Bijuu level as well i guess.
And Kisame calling Roshi "4 tails" is no different then Oru, Kisame and others calling Naruto "9 tails". No one calls them there names and it is easier to say what they know them by. Unless you seen the fight, you have no idea if he went Full Bijuu mode let alone had the power to control it unless you have scans..
Deidara didn't solo the 3 tails, it was Tobi and Deidara who defeated the 3 tails, and That was because they both had the means to do so (deidara had the most fire power in all of akatsuki, and bombs in water are more deadlier). Plus it was off screen so we didnt see it all. And even then he didnt even brag about it since he knew the 3 tails didnt even know how to control it's power. Hidan and kakuzu also off screen defeated a Small mini transformation of the 2 tails. just like the other Bijuu were all caght off screen, we don't know how any of the battles went besides Gaaras and Bees.
And Did you just seriously say Kisame is on Perfect jin Naruto and Bee's level...........
1. He said it wasn't easy, nothing to discuss. Who said he fought with his robe on? Who said he even have wounds when he heals after every battle? Did you see the fight? Why would he be tired when he recovers stamina as well? You are not making any sense unless you seen the fight that was never shown. Again he said it wasn't easy, nothing to talk about.
2. Bee was serious????? So bee when v2 from the get go? Bee went Bojii mode asap? Bee used TBB? Or WW? Or ink clones? Bee went all out huh? I guess he didnt have to worry about 2 other beings the entire time huh? Are you serious bruh? lol Please tell me you're joking!
I'm just going to write everything I previously wrote more briefly and a little less in detail, literally pissed I just did this.
Manga specifically said effectively. Non-perfect Jins can't control their Bijuu effectively and as proficiently as perfect Jins. The manga simply hypes Kisame up to be able to weild as much power as a Jin effectively in his own right. Saying that Roshi didn't go Bijuu mode doesn't make any sense, unless you're telling me a non perfect jin who didn't go Bijuu mode provided more of a challenge to Kisame then Bee did without going Bijuu mode; because Kisame stated the 4 tails gave him trouble, while the Hachibi wasn't so taugh after all. Doesn't add up. The 2 tails imperfect jin when Bijuu mode against Kakuzu and Hidan, so I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that Roshi went bijuu mode on Kisame.
1. Yes, it gave him trouble. No surprise here. Give me one example where an Akatsuki member took off their robe before a fight. Kisame surely has never done that on panel. Just because it gave him trouble, doesn't mean it was a extreme high-difficulty fight, where Kisame was getting knocked around.
2. Just because someone doesn't use their trump cards off bat doesn't mean they aren't seriously fighting. When Bee is
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, he relies on the Hachibi's chakra [
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]. Kisame using absolutely no jutsu at all, forced the Hachibi to want to come out completely (Not Kisames fault he couldn't), so Bee went V2 instead. Think about that and then tell me who was and wasn't completely serious. Kisame using nothing but his sword and CQC skills forced Bee to rely on the Hachibi's chakra, and still was getting beat until he went V2. Kisame didn't change the terrain off bat, didn't use water clones, didn't use GSB or any other shark variant jutsu. V2 had to be used in order to subdue Kisame without the aid of any jutsu, lol.
Oru can also hide under ground with Kusanagi, whats your point? Then you... YOU HAVE THE balls TO COMPARE....
SAGE MODE HASIRAMA DNA FUSED MADARA to Kisame??????????????? I Literally cannot believe you just went there! NO one compares to Hashiramas Auto heal (manga and databook fact), then Sage mode increases everything beyond normal Humans! Then you think Kisame compares and can take the same hits like madara????
Kisame is not Durable, he just can take pain well. Big difference! Just because you can take pain doesn't mean nothing can kill you.lol The mass of the Giant snakes will indeed kill kisame! Period! Unless you have feats of him doing/tanking anything close to Sage Mode Hashirma fusion Rinnengan Asura+Indra combo Madara.... lol
Gaaras Sand was Small Particals (easier to breach skin) and was power by one of the most power Wind Blast ever shown! That isn't the same nor compares to a giant blunt hit. Do Thumb Tacks Compare to a Truck??? Which one would kill you or is designed to kill you??? Then You compare Base Human EMS Madara getting stabbed to Sage mode Hasirama DNA Rinnegan (auto heal) Asura+Indra Combo Madara... You're Reaching bruh!
1. Kisame would also Have a Shit load of Giant Snakes who in one Swoop could Swallow the Majority of the Sharks no diff! And 10000 Small snakes with Kusanagi Swords Stabbing the sharks. The Sharks are literally a Non factor in this Fight!
2. GSB is nothing But Blunt Force upon Contact. That is nothing To Manga, and is easily no diff avoided if he chooses.
Lmao, alright my bad. Totally forgot Madara had Hashirams SM and DNA enhancing him. I don't ever discuss these tier ninjas, so my knowledge on them is very limited. Just pretend I never said that, lol.
Kisame is extremely durable! Sasuke got hit by a V1 Lariat, while Kisame got hit by a V2 skeletal Lariat and took around the same amount of damage as Sasuke [
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][
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]. I don't believe I need to mention how much more powerful a V2 skeletal lariat is then a V1 lariat... yet they both recieved around the same output of damge, while Sasuke was completely knocked out on his death bed, and Kisame still being very concious and even talking. Furthermore, were talking about a guy who took on a Hirudora, and then a direct punch from 7G Gai, to still possess enough strength and energy to rip apart a mokuton restraint without any use of chakra. What do you mean he's not durable? Stop trying to downplay Kisame in any way you can, because it's not going to work against me. Lastly, muscle comes into play with durability [
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] and Kisame just so happens to possess super-human strength without the use of CES. Claiming Kisame isn't durable is absolutely fallacious. It isn't a coincidence that Kisame is by far the longest lasting Akatsuki member... between his great durability, pain resistancy, and the ability to heal makes him extremely hard to kill.
Someone as durable and pain resistant as Kisame with the capability to heal is not going to get one shotted by a single hit from Mandas tail. Gamabunta caught that tail effortlessly. You keep on bringing up the sheer size, mass, and force of these giant snakes yet the manga doesn't support the notion of it being even anywhere close as lethal as you're suggesting. Kid Naruto (Without the Kyubi influence) got slapped by the tail of an
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... [
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] and sustained no life ending injury. Just a little Kyubi influence gave Naruto the physical strength to even stop it [
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]. You're overrating Manda and the snakes in general in every sense of the word.
1. All snakes baring Manda and the White snake are fodder af, and can easily be disposed of by overwhelming numbers. 10,000 small snakes get crushed with a single crashing wave no diff.
You have No Idea how the Snake Muscles work do you? He would he Sliced by the Fangs and poisoned then crushed by the Pressure of his Jaw! His Jaw Had More Power then What Bunta could Produce! Keep in mind Bunta had the power to Slice Through The 1 Tails and Solo Pains Summons. Yet was no match For Manda's Jaw! As for the Digestive prosess.. The Acid and Poison/Bacteria from Manda (Python/Anaconda) will kill Kisame ASAP (assuming he isn't already dead from the poison and being crushed by the mouth first).
Summons do have a time limit, but Oru would just Resummon more Giant snakes or Manda.
1. White Snake poison will come into when ever Oru Chooses. In the WD it will mix with the water, instant GG, or on the land it's instant GG.
2. Hydra with 8 Heads will easily Over whelm Kisame, and with the other added Plethora of Giant Snakes he will fall eventually!.
3. Oru can aslo Go underground, so Please stop using that as a tactic as if The snakes plus oru cannot go underground as well.
Oru literally counters Kisames entire Arsenal. Manda is simply Too much, you add other Giants and Hydra plus True form, its over kill.
He would get sliced by the fangs...? You just love making stuff up huh. Look at the inside of Mandas
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and then explain to me what you're even talking about. Naruto got swallowed by a giant snake, and no such slicing of fangs, poisoning, or getting crushed by it's mouth occured. You're completely making things up, as it's not supported in the manga nor real life. Snakes swallow their prey whole, they don't ever chew or crush them. The only time a snakes teeth comes into play is when they are attempting to bite them or inject them with poison... completely irrelevant to it's feeding process. Then you're implying that Mandas mouth will flatten and crush Kisame, when the pocket in it's mouth is far to huge and will never reach that point when it's teeth clamp together. Not to mention the fact that, a giant snakes jaw wasn't even strong enough to clamp a 12 year old boy down [
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]-[
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] so I have absolutely no reason to believe Manda will be able to crush someone that was stated to have super human strength at just 30% of his strength! Not even close to being supported. And to even make this notion even further far-fetched, Kisame while fused with Samehada can grow a bunch of spikes out it's body. Manda would only be hurting the insides of his jaw attempting this, and while this occurs, Kisame would drain Manda dry of his chakra almost instantly. You're making a whole lot of baseless claims. The acid and bacteria will kill Kisame ASAP? If you're implying instantly; then based on what exactly...? Certainly not the manga nor real life, that's for sure. Because it takes quite some time for snakes to brake down and digest there food. Kisame blows him up from the inside or depletes his chakra a hundred times faster. Manga and real life fact.
1. What white snakes though? Only white snakes I recall Orochimaru using is his true form, which will simply dilute in the WD. And 8 branches, which I don't recall ever producing poisoin after Itachi effortlessly sliced there heads off within seconds.
2. No it won't. Kisame retreats underground and surfaces under him, attaches himself, and drains it's chakra to nothing. In the WD, Kisame easily maneuvers himself around those slow heads, and drains it's chakra/drowns it. Manda is your only saving grace.
3. Orochimaru and snakes can't sense chakra, while Kisame can with Samehada so that isn't helping Orochimaru. Not to mention, if there is a 10 story deep lake in play, going underground isn't going to be quickly accessible to Orochimaru.
Well there you go, you practically said it yourself. Boss summons aren't on Bijuu level. I know Manda is slightly overall stronger then Bunta, but it isn't by a huge margin to suggest Manda is in a whole different tier ahead of a boss summon class. Ichibi was just playing around with Bunta and quickly overwhelmed him with minimal amount of effort with his fuuton alone... that should tell you they're on two different pedestals in terms of overall power.
When a Jin is in V2 mode, they're using the chakra from their Bijuu to enter that mode. So it doesn't make any sense to say a V2 Jin has access to a certain technique in V2 but not full Bijuu mode when it's the same exact chakra, just different amounts.
Saiken is slow in speed, but it's AoE techniques more then compensats. It's actually a fairly interesting and strong Bijuu, now that I look at it's feats.
Add these three together, and Manda isn't doing anything to Saiken:
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Anyways, I literally just lost everything I wrote from this point and further, so I'm done discussing this particular topic. If you still think boss summons are Bijuu level, then let's agree to disagree, because I really don't have to the time to retype everything and this doesn't really have anything to do with the match-up.
I'm just going to write everything I previously wrote more briefly and a little less in detail, literally pissed I just did this.
Manga specifically said effectively. Non-perfect Jins can't control their Bijuu effectively and as proficiently as perfect Jins. The manga simply hypes Kisame up to be able to weild as much power as a Jin effectively in his own right. Saying that Roshi didn't go Bijuu mode doesn't make any sense, unless you're telling me a non perfect jin who didn't go Bijuu mode provided more of a challenge to Kisame then Bee did without going Bijuu mode; because Kisame stated the 4 tails gave him trouble, while the Hachibi wasn't so taugh after all. Doesn't add up. The 2 tails imperfect jin when Bijuu mode against Kakuzu and Hidan, so I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that Roshi went bijuu mode on Kisame.
1. Yes, it gave him trouble. No surprise here. Give me one example where an Akatsuki member took off their robe before a fight. Kisame surely has never done that on panel. Just because it gave him trouble, doesn't mean it was a extreme high-difficulty fight, where Kisame was getting knocked around.
2. Just because someone doesn't use their trump cards off bat doesn't mean they aren't seriously fighting. When Bee is
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, he relies on the Hachibi's chakra [
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]. Kisame using absolutely no jutsu at all, forced the Hachibi to want to come out completely (Not Kisames fault he couldn't), so Bee went V2 instead. Think about that and then tell me who was and wasn't completely serious. Kisame using nothing but his sword and CQC skills forced Bee to rely on the Hachibi's chakra, and still was getting beat until he went V2. Kisame didn't change the terrain off bat, didn't use water clones, didn't use GSB or any other shark variant jutsu. V2 had to be used in order to subdue Kisame without the aid of any jutsu, lol.
Lmao, alright my bad. Totally forgot Madara had Hashirams SM and DNA enhancing him. I don't ever discuss these tier ninjas, so my knowledge on them is very limited. Just pretend I never said that, lol.
Kisame is extremely durable! Sasuke got hit by a V1 Lariat, while Kisame got hit by a V2 skeletal Lariat and took around the same amount of damage as Sasuke [
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][
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]. I don't believe I need to mention how much more powerful a V2 skeletal lariat is then a V1 lariat... yet they both recieved around the same output of damge, while Sasuke was completely knocked out on his death bed, and Kisame still being very concious and even talking. Furthermore, were talking about a guy who took on a Hirudora, and then a direct punch from 7G Gai, to still possess enough strength and energy to rip apart a mokuton restraint without any use of chakra. What do you mean he's not durable? Stop trying to downplay Kisame in any way you can, because it's not going to work against me. Lastly, muscle comes into play with durability [
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] and Kisame just so happens to possess super-human strength without the use of CES. Claiming Kisame isn't durable is absolutely fallacious. It isn't a coincidence that Kisame is by far the longest lasting Akatsuki member... between his great durability, pain resistancy, and the ability to heal makes him extremely hard to kill.
Someone as durable and pain resistant as Kisame with the capability to heal is not going to get one shotted by a single hit from Mandas tail. Gamabunta caught that tail effortlessly. You keep on bringing up the sheer size, mass, and force of these giant snakes yet the manga doesn't support the notion of it being even anywhere close as lethal as you're suggesting. Kid Naruto (Without the Kyubi influence) got slapped by the tail of an
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... [
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] and sustained no life ending injury. Just a little Kyubi influence gave Naruto the physical strength to even stop it [
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]. You're overrating Manda and the snakes in general in every sense of the word.
1. All snakes baring Manda and the White snake are fodder af, and can easily be disposed of by overwhelming numbers. 10,000 small snakes get crushed with a single crashing wave no diff.
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2. That's not what the DB says.
He would get sliced by the fangs...? You just love making stuff up huh. Look at the inside of Mandas
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and then explain to me what you're even talking about. Naruto got swallowed by a giant snake, and no such slicing of fangs, poisoning, or getting crushed by it's mouth occured. You're completely making things up, as it's not supported in the manga nor real life. Snakes swallow their prey whole, they don't ever chew or crush them. The only time a snakes teeth comes into play is when they are attempting to bite them or inject them with poison... completely irrelevant to it's feeding process. Then you're implying that Mandas mouth will flatten and crush Kisame, when the pocket in it's mouth is far to huge and will never reach that point when it's teeth clamp together. Not to mention the fact that, a giant snakes jaw wasn't even strong enough to clamp a 12 year old boy down [
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]-[
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] so I have absolutely no reason to believe Manda will be able to crush someone that was stated to have super human strength at just 30% of his strength! Not even close to being supported. And to even make this notion even further far-fetched, Kisame while fused with Samehada can grow a bunch of spikes out it's body. Manda would only be hurting the insides of his jaw attempting this, and while this occurs, Kisame would drain Manda dry of his chakra almost instantly. You're making a whole lot of baseless claims. The acid and bacteria will kill Kisame ASAP? If you're implying instantly; then based on what exactly...? Certainly not the manga nor real life, that's for sure. Because it takes quite some time for snakes to brake down and digest there food. Kisame blows him up from the inside or depletes his chakra a hundred times faster. Manga and real life fact.
1. What white snakes though? Only white snakes I recall Orochimaru using is his true form, which will simply dilute in the WD. And 8 branches, which I don't recall ever producing poisoin after Itachi effortlessly sliced there heads off within seconds.
2. No it won't. Kisame retreats underground and surfaces under him, attaches himself, and drains it's chakra to nothing. In the WD, Kisame easily maneuvers himself around those slow heads, and drains it's chakra/drowns it. Manda is your only saving grace.
3. Orochimaru and snakes can't sense chakra, while Kisame can with Samehada so that isn't helping Orochimaru. Not to mention, if there is a 10 story deep lake in play, going underground isn't going to be quickly accessible to Orochimaru.
Those fodder snakes asides Manda and Hydra are non factors(With Manda almost being one)..30% Kisame has superhuman strength and a kick from a young Naruto did this to fast moving snake:
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------->
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..I feel sorry if they open their mouth as this happens when Kisame gets swallowed
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---->
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..Not to mention that snake isn't as big so stop making it look like their all really about the same size
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GSB's mouth should deal with the length of this one by the time you finish reading my rebuttal.
It is Water... All of Kisame Shark attacks are a Large volume of water that creates a Blunt hit when it connects. Shark bullet is no different whether it Absorbs or not. You seem to think GSB is Infinite and seem to put it in the same no limits fallacy as Yata mirror Stopping Any attack and Totsuka Sealing anything.
What? You're the one who doesn't really understand it...Reread the Datebook entry I showed.
In your mind, You seem to think GSB will keep going forward to infinity forever absorbing and growing. Too many things wrong with that misinformed info:
1. It isn't a Astral attack that will phase through things and grow further. If It meets something bigger it will indeed implode upon impact based on Life facts and physics and all around common sense.
2. Snakes bottom sides are allot more dense and durable, and the attack will only tickle them upon impact.
Rather than say common sense and life facts, you'll have to prove it as the Datebook heavily disagrees with this especially the underlined.
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As you can see from the Pic above I literally had to draw out for you. Once upon impact of a greater Force and Mass The attack will explode on impact. Period! I'll break it down even further.
Even more proof that you don't know how it works...This is very clear. Read the datebook entry I showed which you obviously didn't do. It eats the enemy with its teeth and not splash on the enemy like you're drawing there. The DB says it absorbs the chakra of the enemy before it releases. As it absorbs Manda's chakra, Manda becomes weaker while GSB becomes stronger.
It doesn't need to eat his entire body when Kisame can just aim by turning his body and firing the Jutsu at the width of Manda's body and not the length. eventually his width would not be a problem as the shark would tear through.
Lmao so you thought it would just hit the opponent and then explode? Lol...It states it absorbs/eats chakra (which results in a growth in size) then explodes
Water hose? Extreme pressure being fired off constantly right? You ever seen what it looks like when it hits a Concrete wall? What Happens to the water? Does it A) Go straight through the wall B) Bounce off the wall or C) Go around the Wall? I'll wait.....
Irrelevant but there's a difference between Chakra related substances and ordinary water..Not to mention there's literally no need for this to be said.
Oru doesnt have to create clone for clone, When 1 Giant snake from the many is more then enough for those weak Clones. Why do you think the CLones are On Naruto's level of capability when they
It can go far but not very far. GG giant snake as Kisame's clones can use his abilities as well and Lol @ them being weak.
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Don't just read the blue box but read the whole entry..You can see his Taijutsu and abilities don't change and 30 percent Kisame clones had the strength and CQC feat to overpower Part 1 Base Gai despite having his own strength and speed reduced in proportion. 10 Percent of the real doesn't change? How the heck does Oro's clone stand a chance? Ora's clones get blitzed/Manhandled/Mindraped/desotryed and everything that defines violation.
Non of his clones will have the power to Defeat a single Giant snake whether he has 10/30 clones. They all go poof no diff with the sheer mass and size of attacks!
Then you go to the "Run away" strategy as if Oru is retarded? 10000 Small snakes with Kusanagi swords literally everywhere inside the water per square inch, and you think he will be able to avoid every single snake big and small plus Oru perfectly like some god like chakrater beyond Minato or anyone in speed and evasion magically?
What are you saying bro? He evades them which is simple..Don't know where you got this "Run away" strategy from. Plus the fact that different giant snakes all attacking a small target at once? Without getting in each other's way?
He has clones to distract them..Plus you think he doesn't have clones and sharks to distract them. Plus you think he can summon 100 large snakes.
Sasuke used VISUAL Genjutsu Which did not require him to move his Head! What is your point? I never said there chakra some how magically gets turnt off. The poison makes them numb and paralyzes them. That means Stops there body from doing what? Moving bro! This is not rocket science I shouldn't have to break it down this level. And what's worse If you still don't get it I can draw it out for you.
His body could still function and could still build up chakra to use 2 visual techniques. It stops their body but I'm pretty sure Samehada can still give him stamina or simply heal him from it...Either way, I'll give other counters below but this isn't a smart choice with other snake summonings around.
If you have White snake Poison through your veins why would you still be affected by it? I don't get why you dont get that.
Well how's the poision going to come in the first place if Oro's isn't cut into bits? He's not just going to automatically release it. He only showed this in his White Snake mode? Itachi cut Oro's hand of and wasn't affected by any poison.
And no 8 Branches isn't showing poison when it didn't do so in the Manga despite given more than enough time to do so when you compare it to Oro's case with Sasuke.
So he was able from Point blank range Dodge an even
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! But he wont be able to dodge and/or go underground against a much much smaller attack? I'll break it down:
.....? GSB wouldn't explode till it hits Manda so him evading the AOE is irrelevant and I've already said there's no way Manda is going underground while distracted or even being fast enough to do so in that situation . Faster attack? GSB is supposed to be a stronger variant of the ordinary shark bullet which took Kisame out the island with high speed. Nevertheless, nothing implies that it's slower than that.
We Play an extreme Game of Dodge ball. You through a Golf ball at me. I side step it because of how small it is. I throw
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in comparison to the 3 inch sized Golf ball at you at the same speed. Now which one would most likely hit me or you? The golf ball or Giant Rasengan? The answer is obv the Rasengan since it is more unavoidable correct? But What If even the Giant attack I still mangaed to dodge it?.... That would mean the Smaller attack stands no chance correct?
Seen what you mean but that's completely different to this when Manda is more of a bigger target so his entire body may not escape GSB which is likely here..Not to mention now that you're saying this, you must definitely know that the larger GSB would be harder to dodge than the ordinary shark missile technique.
And where Does it state "It Follows" at please!!?? It was a Linear attack going only Forward! Then you seem to think he is perfectly and magically safe when he does the attack. smh As seen with Gai; Even though he seen GSB had no effect on Gais attack and Gais attack was getting closer,
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He was defenseless as the attack made contact! And after he was hit, the GSB never even hit guy because since Kisame was no longer in pose the attack didn't continue.
I probably confused the fact that GSB was a stronger variant so I gave it some of the ordinary shark missile's feat which is very understandable since it's supposed to be a stronger form...But I'll just drop that idea of it being able to follow Manda. However, Manda being able to completely dodge it while being distracted isn't happening.
What are you talking about? Do you even realize the speed of Hirudora? Something that forced a Juubi Jin to block rather than evade? Kisame only noticed Hirudora wasn't being absorbed after it entered and Hirudora had already gone this far before he noticed and started questioning himself. He basically knew nothing so not being able to evade a super fast punch doesn't mean he'd be defenseless.
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1. He aims at one target.
2. Oru/Snakes/clones will counter attack while he aims.
3. Results in 2 things to happen:
A. Kisame stops the GSB concentration and defend or counter counter attack.
B. Kisame keeps aim, but gets his Head cut off, or Crushed by snakes, or Stabbed by 100 Kusamagis, or ripped to sheds etc etc
Yeah not when I already said he uses while he has an opening. Not to mention Oro's fodder clones don't stand a chance against Kisame's as his clones can battle the snakes since they have the speed to attack and distract them as well as the attacks to fight back in some cases.
Then you seem to think every shark attack is the same as GSM. He literaly did water shark missle and you think they will all absorb chakra when it is manga and databook fact they are too different attacks? But Lets pretend I ignore databook and manga fact and say his small ones absorb chakra. Gai who was in contact did not suffer chakra loss. And that small as missile wouldn't even phase any giant summon.
Every shark attack? Or just Shark missile which was pretty much a weaker form..Very understandable for me to confuse the 2 since the format of both was pretty much the same asides the fact that one can absorb chakra.
SO even though the manga made it clear... Sasuke made it clear.... Suigetsu made it clear... That there was a big difference In Healthy full power oru and death bed Oru... You think Both Oru's are equal....
And even when I made it clear and the Manga made it clear, you still think there's a difference in they chakra supply? Get proof for this. There's a difference between being weakened and having your chakra reserves being depleted.
Then you think Itachi when healthy wouldn't be better then sick itachi? Really? Ok... If you are to weak to harness and control a certain amount of chakra, then it affects you! Simple logic! I can have all the energy in the world but if my body doesn't allow he to tap into that energy I cannot Do what My limits would allow. The body Oru had was literally rejecting the man. What is there to talk about? especially when the manga made it clear there was a night and day difference in healthy fresh oru and sick dying oru.
Where are you going with all these?..All I said was his reserves weren't depleted as he had access to his normal chakra. However, he was weakened so he couldn't fight at his best. This isn't an issue of Chakra reserves or what's available to him, it's his health that holds him down which makes him weakened. Healthy Oro has no difference in reserves to a sick Oro...Only difference is he's stronger since he's full healthy and won't have drawbacks. Kimmimaro and Itachi showed this in regards to chakra.
I already Know the databook entry for the attack, nothing new. But you do not understand what Limits and Life facts are to think It is an Infinite unbeatable attack.
Maybe but you clearly didn't know the one for Rashomon or you won't have compared it's arrival at the battlefield to that of Pain's summoning.
What you dont get if. If something is bigger and has more power and mass, it trumps the smaller weaker move! It is not and Astral move that will magically keep going forward and forever absorbing what ever it hits. The attack says "The large shark stores the opponents chakra in it's belly" as in it first has to go through the mouth to absorb first! (common since) But If the target is too big and has more mass and force, how would it get a chance to be absorbed????? It would literally just crush it self against the Large summons body and disperse every single time! This is common since and life facts! DO I have to break it down and draw another Picture bro?
He absorbs the opponents chakra which makes it grow...I've already addressed it and would say this:
GSB Absorbed swallowed Hirudora while AT had its mouth wide opened
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Look at the size of Kisame to GSB and what even matters more, Gai to AT
Manda's body width to Suigetsu and Sasuke:
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Then You bring up the small as teethe as a means of breaching Giant summons and Hydra Bigger mass and sized body. Each head of
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. Using scaling would suggest each scale of Hydras body are bigger then Humans.
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. Now If we compare, Them small as teethe of WATER would do nothing to Giant summons but would at the very worse just bruise the gigantic and masses frame.
Lmaoo what small teeth you talking about? and then you say of water? If we were to go by this water issue, then not even Kisame or anyone would be pierce by ordinary water but it's chakra infused and therefore not ordinary.
Not to mention the fact that you overrate Manda but still say I overrate GSB. Manda took C0, 8 tails took a Bijuudama, 8 tails tentacles was caught up in the Bijuudama, Minato used a Kunai slash to cut off that tentacle...Now seeing this, why in the world can't GSB pierce Manda? .....
He would be crushed or ripped into pieces before being swallowed and instantly melted and Digested with the added affects of poison kicking in. And Why wouldn't I bring in other snakes when that is how he fights?
What poison? Only the white snake and that water dilutes it since it's passed out via blood.
And again I already debunked your notion of it being infinite. Rashomon easily Blocks it or Hydra tanks it. Or at worse True form Comes out to play then its GG from there! Since there is nothing he has to even know about the poison and what is about to happen.
And he does it again...Oro isn't summoning Rashomon from a close range. Hydra doesn't tank it if it can absorb? Poison yeah? You realize Oro needs to cut himself right? Or rather Kisame can gain Stamina and also be healed. If the healing doesn't work, then Kisame covers himself in a water prison that's capable of flying as you can see:
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He ends up not breathing it in as his clones can dilute it by adding more water considering they stand on top water and the blood would rather go inside and mix up with the water.
Lee and Neji did not blitz and was Arial coming down. They cannot move in the air, so mute point. Neji isn't strong at all and Lee didnt use a strong strike. So you trying to overrate the clones isn't working when the 2 ninjas didnt go all out. Orus "featless" clones are shadow clones, shadow clones>>>Water clones. What is there to talk about?
What...? You're just downplaying what happened. Read my entry on water clones then you can confidently say this.
WHat crossfire??? You act as though lasers and bombs and bullets would be fired every where. Kisame arsenal does't create "crossfire" to get rid of anything.
We have giant snakes trying to hit someone at ground height but 10,000 snakes won't be caught within such range? Pretty sure FT showed something that deals with this snakes.
When you have even smaller targets with kusanagis and Large targets literally everywhere, where is ther to run? Hydra with 8 heads alone would surround him and block escape routes, with the other snakes he is simply surrounded at ALL TIMES! He isn't Minato in the art of escape.lol An Kisame never kept up with Itachi's Shunshin. The databook doesnt even put them on the same speed level, so that point is moot. Plus the fact weren't we fighting in Water????? Are you now saying we are fighting on land to be able to "Shunshin"??? You are switching it up bro.lol Which one is it?
Nope because you already said the Dome gets countered so what's the need of being in water? They stand on top of water.
Here is it as he did it on top water:
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Plus 30 clones or more would eventually distract Hydra and the other clones since they have Kisame's abilities and Taijutsu.
How did it "take allot" when it was "last" not "All" or "most" of his strength? I don't get your logic. Just because ssomething is a ninjutsu doesn't mean it takes a shit load of chakra. It is literally a transofrmation Jutsu, and it doesn't take much to change modes as seen with other chakracters. So Naruto's most powerful move is TBB, after using it does that mean he can't use anything else????
Minato's is Rasengan, does it mean he can't use his other moves?
Temari's is that fan thing, does it mean nothing else is used after wards?
Itachi's is Amateratsu/Susanoo/Tsukuyomi, does it mean nothing else after it can be used?
Pains is CB, nothing else after it can be used?
etc etc etc etc
Your logic is flawed and not supported, shown, stated, claimed, hinted in the manga or databook. You literally made that up with ZERO SUPPORT! Like Literally!
So you're telling me his most powerful and greatest Jutsu which surpasses him doesn't take a lot of chakra while Oro style and Rashomon does? Great...Not to mention, thank you for supporting me with the Pain CB point...I don't recall saying he can't use anything else after, I said he can't mix powerful Jutsu's together at once and the Pain CB point supports this. Where's your evidence that while using his most powerful Jutsu which surpasses him, he can use other Jutsus while Hydra is active? NONE. If you still want to go one saying he doesn't use chakra like you were saying before, then stick to that logic cuz it's clear as day that it takes more than the others.
Again, where does it say all chakra and no other chakra can be used?????????????????? Show an arrow fro that please!
So now you see first of all were asking to see if a Ninjutsu attack requires chakra but then again, this shows I shouldn't drag on why his most powerful Ninjutsu attack requires more chakra than the Ninjutsu ones that were said to be taxing e.g Rashomon(Just 1 gate let alone 3) and Oro body replacement. Anyways, you need to prove that he can use other techniques while having his most powerful that even surpasses him active.
Where does it say a "massive amount?" and where does it list Oru's chakra pool to say it is his limit? That is where your logic fails miserably! You assume this tech is the end all be all tech in naruto verse that it takes a god amount of chakra with out knowing Oru's chakra limit! Oru was able to summon 4 edo kages no diff, multiple boss summons for fun and summon 3 rashomon gates after 4 rebirths for fun yet you think his chakra is so low he wont be ale to survive any other attempt.... Nothing you are stating is supported by the manga! Where does it say "no other jutsu can be used". PLEASE SHOW ME THAT DATABOOK OR MANGA SCAN! Then with teh Senju body (im not even using Zetsu oru btw) his chakra is that much larger. smh
It doesn't list his pool but it refers to some of his techniques saying it consumes a massive amount of Chakra...Kisame has more chakra and the more Oro uses this techniques the more chakra he wastes..Kisame's clones join in the party as well.
His Chakra is that much larger but yet you're telling me to show a databook despite you misinterpreting what I said...Like I said, prove he can actively use his most powerful while also using other Jutsus.
Read your own scans for once! Once the shark swallowed The attack he commented (it swallowed but didn't get bigger" as in, ONLY AFTER IT GOES IN THE MOUTH OF THE SHARK the attack is absorbed! But if THE TARGET IS BIGGER THEN WHAT THE MOUTH CAN SWALLOW ENTIRELY, how will it get absorbed. Lets use common since in the very scan you posted bro. You literally don't understand the very tech you are trying to use..
What is the bold......? So Kisame says it swallows the attack now means ONLY WHEN IT SWALLOWS? Let's be serious here, the DB says:
Sution Daikoudan no Jutsu
The shark's roar eats and shredded to pieces the enemy jutsu, while one's own power restores!!
A massive chakra bullet in the shape of a large shark, the Jutsu bursts towards the target it's aimed at. It has the ability to absorb the enemies chakra and change that into ones own power. The large shark stores the opponents chakra in it's belly, it's bottomless appetite is sated by it's fangs shredding the enemy to pieces
The opponent's and this jutsu clash, the chakra is eaten which results in a massive release
Where did you get ONLY when it swallows from? One thing's clear, it absorbs chakra..Simple as I even referred to the width and not the length of Manda. It didn't specify how except for the fact that it eats chakra so how you're coming up with only swallowing is you misinterpreting it. You're the one who doesn't understand it.
Not to mention how are you chewing/biting Air pressure? We even see that AT was quite large and fast moving as it was unaffected by GSB
Why is this being discussed when Manda alone could solo? Kisame's jutsu are too predictable, with no lethal technique capable of killing Manda.
Kisame is definately a strong opponent, even slightly stronger than Orochimaru without Edo and boss summoning variations. However, as a whole Orochimaru is bad match-up for Kisame.
Kisame's best bet is draining all of Orochimaru's chakra with Samehada, but Orochimaru can be particularly evasive in combat and does have a pretty big chakra pool, so that'll be difficult. Orochimaru high-diff.
