[VS] Orochimaru vs. Kisame

super yang

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if you go by feats...

''shark bullet'' variations are all linear, compressed & quick burst shots

it is the slower, generally larger, ''dragon bullet'' variations that twist curve & ''chase'' the opponent

naruto summoned gama bunta in mid air. triple rashoumon would instantlydestroy the water dome, even if they land awkwardly or fall down.

still no counter from being ragdolled & diced up by true form kusanagi/shin kusanagi tsurugi

theres nothing to suggest water shape manipulated sharks can damage even fodder snakes whose scales crushed buildings let alone manda or hydra oro. so they cut gais shoulder? a normal human...
 
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Nattana

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1. Provide an effective and legitimate counter to Daikoudan and 1,000+ sharks, both summoned and created from water
2. Explain how the rashoumon gates are useful in this matchup
3. Explain how Orochimaru doesn't just drown after a while
4. Explain why and how Orochimaru isn't using a lot of strength and chakra to use and maintain the Hydra

...then I won't respond. I've already outlined why and how I think Kisame wins this matchup, and how he can counter everything in Orochimaru's arsenal. All you're doing is trying to give me the run around. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Current Orochimaru doesn't breathe lol. How can he drown if he doesn't even have lungs?

Water Dome is completely useless since Orochimaru can easily use his Soft Physique Neck extension and Mayfly straight into the ground. Kisame using Water Dome would only waste his chakra - and using such a massive Suiton is most definitely chakra-draining even for the likes of Kisame.

About 8branches - Databook clearly states that Orochimaru used it with the last little pieces of his strength. Also, it also states that the basis and the vehicle of Hydra are White Snake's regenerative powers. So obviously it's not just chakra based and the amout of chakra needed to perform it isn't as big as you think.
 

Ghost in the Shell

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Current Orochimaru doesn't breathe lol. How can he drown if he doesn't even have lungs?

Water Dome is completely useless since Orochimaru can easily use his Soft Physique Neck extension and Mayfly straight into the ground. Kisame using Water Dome would only waste his chakra - and using such a massive Suiton is most definitely chakra-draining even for the likes of Kisame.

About 8branches - Databook clearly states that Orochimaru used it with the last little pieces of his strength. Also, it also states that the basis and the vehicle of Hydra are White Snake's regenerative powers. So obviously it's not just chakra based and the amout of chakra needed to perform it isn't as big as you think.

- OP didn't specify which version of Orochimaru is in this matchup. If it's Zetsu Orochimaru, then, sure, I guess.
- Again, Kisame would immediately catch up with him if he tries to escape the dome in any way, as I've said before.
- Again, Doesn't change the fact that it'd get destroyed by Daikoudan in conjunction with other sharks and Kisame bunshins, or even Kisame himself.
 

Haizaki

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Oro doesn't breathe? since when? Pretty sure he has a nose.....Once again, 8 branches is a Ninjutsu technique so it uses up chakra as the DB classifies it as Ninjutsu and Kishi refers to it as Oro's strongest Jutsu. Arguing this is ridiculous and yes it uses a massive amount since Oral rebirth does and just pulling out 1 Rashomon gate takes a whole lot of Chakra let alone 3. Telling me 8 branches doesn't require chakra or doesn't use up more than those when it's a stronger form of Ninjutsu is outright silly. And since Oro had to use it with the last of his strength, that speaks a lot about Oro flashing different techniques here doesn't it? Yeah nope.
 
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Nattana

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Oro doesn't breathe? since when? Pretty sure he has a nose.....Once again, 8 branches is a Ninjutsu technique so it uses up chakra as the DB classifies it as Ninjutsu and Kishi refers to it as Oro's strongest Jutsu. Arguing this is ridiculous and yes it uses a massive amount since Oral rebirth does and just pulling out 1 Rashomon gate takes a whole lot of Chakra let alone 3. Telling me 8 branches doesn't require chakra or doesn't use up more than those when it's a stronger form of Ninjutsu is outright silly. And since Oro had to use it with the last of his strength, that speaks a lot about Oro flashing different techniques here doesn't it? Yeah nope.

Orochimaru took over Zetsu. Zetsu don't eat, poop, breathe. They don't have internal organs, blood, lungs and stuff like that. It's obvious that current Orochimaru doesn't breathe because he doesn't have to.

Of course 8branches is Ninjutsu and of course it uses chakra. But Databook clearly states that it's White Snake's regenerative powers that act as a vehicle. Orochimaru used it with the last of his strength because it was all that was left of his chakra. Sasuke absorbed him at his weakest possible state. He was literally at his deathbed, so he had close to no chakra. It was stated in manga that after Sasuke absorbed Oro's chakra, he had to be constantly supressing it. Orochimaru managed to burst out of Sasuke only when the latter was almost out of chakra, meaning that Orochimaru's reserves in Sasuke were close to 0 as well.
 

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Jesus christ Oro's snake body is still inside his zetsu body which needs air so that argument is moot
 

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Yeah but Hydra being bigger than the Dome makes him an easy target for Kisame here...His not fast enough to evade GSB which would be used by a small target.

What would GSB do? It's simply Blunt force (that absorbs exposed chakra) and nothing more. If he aims at Hydra, It is a fact he has to keep aim and stay in that pose (kamehameha blast pose) and that literally leaves him open to get One shotted by 4 other Boss sized summons also in the Dome. And we all know if something happens to Kisame the (since he no longer kept the pose/jutsu active). Not to mention Hydra has 8 LARGE heads, if three or four are attacked, the other 4-5 will strike. Basically Kisame wont have time to focus and land a Blast when a Shit load of Giant snakes are all continuously attacking and will indeed rip him apart.

How's the poison going to be passed through If Oro himself isn't cut like we saw in the Manga? And I'm pretty sure Sasuke was still alright after a while seeing as he put Kabuto in a Genjutsu as well as Oro and even reversed his technique.

So he cannot stab or harm himself to allow his Poison to take affect in a portion of True form?
Fact 1: Sasuke wasn't alright and was affected by the poison.
Fact 2: Oru isn't affected by his own poison.
Fact 3: Sasuke stole Oru's Body, Powers, abilities, Became a White snake healer.

So with the 3 facts Why would sasuke be affected anymore when He is now someone with that very poison in his blood?



By 8 Bracnhes? Nope and there's pretty much no way Oro is going to go underground and evade it from a close distance. Summoning Rashomon won't cut as well given the distance and time ...Not to mention the fact that they'll be in a flooded environment making underground tactics and the coming up of Rashomon slower as the water pretty much slows it. It also takes a massive amount of chakra to summon just one Gate let alone 3 as stated. That would completely take as lot from Oro.

Manda bro, not Hydra, Manda. Manda can go in and out of the earth as if he was going swimming. Rashomon is a SPACE TIME NINJUTSU like all Summoning Jutsu. As in, nothing In Kisame's arsenal . Unless you are saying Kisame posess power speed above Juubi Jin characters, he is not stopping Rashomon. Water is liquid and will not stop or hault something with greater weight and force. Oru on his death bed Summoned 3 No diff after he spammed Oral rebirth for fun, yet you think CHakra is a problem for healthy Oru let alone Senju Oru who over powered Tobirama himself! lmao Broooooo The dude was literally Toying with the 4 tails while he was dying!!!!!!!

Manda gets his chakras absorbed as well as he becomes weakened..He's literally put down by this technique. One doesn't have to stay still, Kisame can use diversionary tactics like like clones/Sharks to distract Manda.

How's Oral rebirth even helping when the technique pretty much sucks him in? Oral rebirth is pretty much doing nothing since his chakra gets absorbed or rather he's swallowed in like Afternoon tiger was and only ends up coming out to still be in GSB if it doesn't explode.

He (manda) would never get hit first off, but If i Pretend he did, GSB again will leave Kisame wide open for instant death from Oru and other snakes. The Snake is far Bigger then that Tiny Ass Shark bullet yet you think it could Hurt a Boss Bijuu sized Summon to the point it dies???? DO you not know how Durable and thick Snake Scates of that size would be, then the amount of solid mass and Muscles of a Snake that big would be??? Yet you think that small ass bullet would even make him Smile? lol DO I have to bring in the Metrics, mass, biography and make a snake science Course to get what you are saying????


Oru would never get hit aswell with the amount of moves he has to avoid that slow as bullet as well. But lets pretend Oru stays still and allow it to hit him; He gets hit, then Oral rebirths right after it. Or have Manda or the others kill Kisame while he focus on Oru. Or simply Transform to Hydra and tank it. Or summon Rashomon to block. lmao Or he hits a clone. Or Transform to true form and allow White snake poison to take affect. etc etc. That move doesn't "Suck you in" show me a scan stating or hinting that please! And No, no where in the manga stated "only Hinrudora allows you to survive great shark bullet".


Just to show no underground techniques wouldn't surprise him.

It will be useless because he would never be allowed to settle on one target, ever!



In terms of feat, 30 percent Kisame's clones>>>Oro's when in comes to reaction. As well as the fact that Kisame has a large chakra pool(More than Oro and the entire Akatsuki)..Kisame overpowers Oro in this field. Not to mention the fact that Kisame can clone Samehada with his clones..Oro's clones aren't winning.

of its user strength. Reation? All they did was use there water bodies to use water prison. They literally have zero Reaction feats to say "they are better then" anything really. Oru has a large chakra pool as well, whats your point? And with Senju hashirama cells body it is even that much more amplified! Oru isn't strong to attempt a Arm wrestling contest to begin with, so "overpowering" oru in base is laughed at! Hydra though, shits and rips Kisame apart no disputing!

Water clones are laughed at.


You have a point here to be honest but they die in the crossfire of Kisame's large range attacks if a single wave of KN4's hand could completely obliterate them.

Kisames only large ranged attacks are Water shock wave which is nothing more then a wave of water (not killing snakes), 1000 feeding sharks (which are solo'd by Sword snakes.lol), and GSB which doesn't cove a wide range to kill 10000 snakes. So what Move is comparable to 4 tailed naruto shock wave you speak of?

Was referring to Orochimaru himself and he'll get his Chakra absorbed if he makes contact. Hydra easily gets destroyed since it's a bigger target for Kisame's attacks.

But Hydra literally rips Kisame limb from limb so again what is there to absorb when he is in pieces?


Like Someone said earlier on, Orochimaru uses a massive amount of chakra/ power to use Hydra so the likes of mixing all these powerful techniques won't even be happening:

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The emphasis on this pretty much notes that he can't have other justus active while using this technique..There's really nothing that suggest he can do so. Not to mention the massive amount of chakra that this as well as others take.

No you literally missed the part where it says "LAST OF HIS STRENGTH" Not "ALL OF HIS STRENGTH" or "All of his power/chakra" Oru was stupid weak and not in control and only had a little strength yet TRANSFORMED into Hydra mode no diff! And where in the scan or manga states he can't use other jutsu?????? Where in the scan says he used a shit load of chakra? I'll break it down for you and the veiwers bro:

8 gates is a What? Jutsu!
Acrobatics (the 8 swords style be uses) is a what? Jutsu!
Morning peacok, EE, Night Gai etc are what? Jutsu!

Where does it say they 'NEED CHAKRA' or uses 'chakra'? Hydra is a Transformation Jutsu! It literally says it in the scan!
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The green points out TRANSFORMATION! As in a new form! You overrate the GSB, show me scalling to make it take out something as large as Hydra/Manda other giants then I might give Kisame low diff/mid diff defeat. Other then that everything you stated is countered by Oru no diff.
 

Nattana

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Jesus christ Oro's snake body is still inside his zetsu body which needs air so that argument is moot

Lol? It resides in Oro's own dimension...
 

Draegod

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Oro doesn't breathe? since when? Pretty sure he has a nose.....Once again, 8 branches is a Ninjutsu technique so it uses up chakra as the DB classifies it as Ninjutsu and Kishi refers to it as Oro's strongest Jutsu. Arguing this is ridiculous and yes it uses a massive amount since Oral rebirth does and just pulling out 1 Rashomon gate takes a whole lot of Chakra let alone 3. Telling me 8 branches doesn't require chakra or doesn't use up more than those when it's a stronger form of Ninjutsu is outright silly. And since Oro had to use it with the last of his strength, that speaks a lot about Oro flashing different techniques here doesn't it? Yeah nope.

he was already weak and being surpresses so how could he use all his powers when the scan literally emphasized on him using the "last" as in didnt have much. And Zetsu oru doesnt need air or food:

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They where literally in water the entire time. Oru on death bed used Oral rebirth 5 times, summoned 3 Giant rasomon gates, 10000 snakes and through it all toyed with 4 tails Naruto and was the one pushing forward. Yet you think a Healthy let alone 100% Senju Oru (Danzo with only his arm was able to have 11 Sharingans and Use MS 2 times in a day thanks to the power boost, imagine 100% body...). And again the scan shows it is a transformation and a Jutsu he used with a little strength, not full power/all.
 

Haizaki

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Orochimaru took over Zetsu. Zetsu don't eat, poop, breathe. They don't have internal organs, blood, lungs and stuff like that. It's obvious that current Orochimaru doesn't breathe because he doesn't have to.

Lmaoo please refer to Zexion's reply.

Of course 8branches is Ninjutsu and of course it uses chakra. But Databook clearly states that it's White Snake's regenerative powers that act as a vehicle. Orochimaru used it with the last of his strength because it was all that was left of his chakra. Sasuke absorbed him at his weakest possible state. He was literally at his deathbed, so he had close to no chakra. It was stated in manga that after Sasuke absorbed Oro's chakra, he had to be constantly supressing it. Orochimaru managed to burst out of Sasuke only when the latter was almost out of chakra, meaning that Orochimaru's reserves in Sasuke were close to 0 as well.

He uses the White Snake as a vehicle to transform. Regardless of him in his deathbed, you can't tell me that his chakra supply was depleted. Weakest possible state =/= Amount of chakra available to you as seen in multiple occasions. Not one bit and I'm 100% sure it wasn't implied in the Manga unless you can prove otherwise. I just hope you're not implying what I'm thinking with the bold because it becomes ridiculous when his other technique uses a massive amount of chakra..8 Branches surpasses Oro himself and is his most powerful. How the heck won't it require a large amount when it was stated a Single Gate of Rashomon requires a massive amount as well as Oral rebirth. Meanwhile, 8 Branches is far above both as it also requires using the last of his strength as he was using regenerative power as his vehicle to transform.

Literally you're trying to say he did so with zero Charka reserves? Not possible.
 

Nattana

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Proof of this? I know he has his own dimension but I wasn't aware it permanently resided there

1. There's no way his True Form could fit inside a human host, especially that prior to taking over Zetsu, his human bodies had internal organs and stuff like that. True Form is several times+ human size.

2. When Orochimaru uses Gathering of the Snakes, he transports his insides to his private dimension and releases White Snakes from his True Form to reattach his body.
 

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1. There's no way his True Form could fit inside a human host, especially that prior to taking over Zetsu, his human bodies had internal organs and stuff like that. True Form is several times+ human size.

2. When Orochimaru uses Gathering of the Snakes, he transports his insides to his private dimension and releases White Snakes from his True Form to reattach his body.

It grows....It fit out of Oro's body fine

If he transported his insides he would die....
 

Nattana

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It grows....It fit out of Oro's body fine

If he transported his insides he would die....

Look at the top-left panel. His True Form coming out of his body - even if it grows later on - is still too big for a human shell to contain. Not to mention that in the scan you posted, the only thing we can see clearly is its tail, which wasn't shown even once later on, so we can't even compare.

And about his insides - I don't know how, but he didn't die from doing that. When Kyuubi blew Oro's arm off, there was blood and all. But right before Kyuubi bisected Oro, the latter somehow made his insides vanish, because there was not a single drop of blood. The only logical explanation is that he moved them to his dimension and also from there he released his White Snakes to reattach his body. Too bad Kishimoto never bothered with explaining Oro's techniques further, but that's how it looks in manga.
 

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Look at the top-left panel. His True Form coming out of his body - even if it grows later on - is still too big for a human shell to contain. Not to mention that in the scan you posted, the only thing we can see clearly is its tail, which wasn't shown even once later on, so we can't even compare.

And about his insides - I don't know how, but he didn't die from doing that. When Kyuubi blew Oro's arm off, there was blood and all. But right before Kyuubi bisected Oro, the latter somehow made his insides vanish, because there was not a single drop of blood. The only logical explanation is that he moved them to his dimension and also from there he released his White Snakes to reattach his body. Too bad Kishimoto never bothered with explaining Oro's techniques further, but that's how it looks in manga.

Barring the whole Kishi never explained thing even though you are right on that


My point is that it came out of Orochimaru meaning it was able to fit in fine? Idc if all we can see is the tail that still means it came out from there, so it can fit it most likel just can grow
 

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Lmaoo please refer to Zexion's reply.



He uses the White Snake as a vehicle to transform. Regardless of him in his deathbed, you can't tell me that his chakra supply was depleted. Weakest possible state =/= Amount of chakra available to you as seen in multiple occasions. Not one bit and I'm 100% sure it wasn't implied in the Manga unless you can prove otherwise. I just hope you're not implying what I'm thinking with the bold because it becomes ridiculous when his other technique uses a massive amount of chakra..8 Branches surpasses Oro himself and is his most powerful. How the heck won't it require a large amount when it was stated a Single Gate of Rashomon requires a massive amount as well as Oral rebirth. Meanwhile, 8 Branches is far above both as it also requires using the last of his strength as he was using regenerative power as his vehicle to transform.

Literally you're trying to say he did so with zero Charka reserves? Not possible.

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Anything else?
 

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What would GSB do? It's simply Blunt force (that absorbs exposed chakra) and nothing more. If he aims at Hydra, It is a fact he has to keep aim and stay in that pose (kamehameha blast pose) and that literally leaves him open to get One shotted by 4 other Boss sized summons also in the Dome. And we all know if something happens to Kisame the (since he no longer kept the pose/jutsu active). Not to mention Hydra has 8 LARGE heads, if three or four are attacked, the other 4-5 will strike. Basically Kisame wont have time to focus and land a Blast when a Shit load of Giant snakes are all continuously attacking and will indeed rip him apart.

Simply blunt force? It absorbs its chakras further weakening it and the more it absorbs, the stronger it becomes...Hydra has 8 heads but still has a point where all the heads are connected. Once that point is affected, all would be affected.

If you're bringing in the use of other snakes, Kisame creates tons of clones with his Chakra to distract them. Oro can't create clone for clone when he still has to waste a massive amount of Chakra on his techniques unlike Kisame. Worst case, Kisame plays on the defensive and multiple snakes going for him at a time only means they'll get in each other's way trying to hit a small target.

So he cannot stab or harm himself to allow his Poison to take affect in a portion of True form?
Fact 1: Sasuke wasn't alright and was affected by the poison.
Fact 2: Oru isn't affected by his own poison.
Fact 3: Sasuke stole Oru's Body, Powers, abilities, Became a White snake healer.

So with the 3 facts Why would sasuke be affected anymore when He is now someone with that very poison in his blood?

Sasuke did put Oro in a Genjutsu after the poison as well as reversed his technique after the poison. Where you have a point is after he did absorbed him which wasn't before Sasuke did this 2.

Manda bro, not Hydra, Manda. Manda can go in and out of the earth as if he was going swimming. Rashomon is a SPACE TIME NINJUTSU like all Summoning Jutsu. As in, nothing In Kisame's arsenal . Unless you are saying Kisame posess power speed above Juubi Jin characters, he is not stopping Rashomon. Water is liquid and will not stop or hault something with greater weight and force. Oru on his death bed Summoned 3 No diff after he spammed Oral rebirth for fun, yet you think CHakra is a problem for healthy Oru let alone Senju Oru who over powered Tobirama himself! lmao Broooooo The dude was literally Toying with the 4 tails while he was dying!!!!!!!

He can go in the earth but then he's still big enough before his entire body goes in...He pretty much doesn't even have the feat that suggest he can instantly go in without some part being left after it has been fired. And GSB follows him regardless of where he goes with high speed since Kisame could ride at high speed in the min version of GSB

Deathbed doesn't affect his chakra supply...Not the case. He's weakened but that doesn't affect the Chakra available to him. Not being able to perform at your best doesn't mean you're low on chakra supply..Didn't we see this with Itachi and Kimmimaro when they were close to death. Your weakened state doesn't affect the amount of Chakra available to you but rather affects how you battle.

Nopee..The just itself doesn't teleport but RISES FROM THE EARTH which is different from all other Space time we've seen and I also underlined where to says one gate requires a huge amount of Chakra let alone 3 and other high leveled techniques.

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He (manda) would never get hit first off, but If i Pretend he did, GSB again will leave Kisame wide open for instant death from Oru and other snakes. The Snake is far Bigger then that Tiny Ass Shark bullet yet you think it could Hurt a Boss Bijuu sized Summon to the point it dies???? DO you not know how Durable and thick Snake Scates of that size would be, then the amount of solid mass and Muscles of a Snake that big would be??? Yet you think that small ass bullet would even make him Smile? lol DO I have to bring in the Metrics, mass, biography and make a snake science Course to get what you are saying????

Tiny but has the ability to absorb which is the most necessary. It gets stronger so the more chakra available ti it, the stronger it becomes against the opponent regardless of size or whatsoever. Not to mention you're the one underestimating GSB.

Databook
Sution Daikoudan no Jutsu

The shark's roar eats and shredded to pieces the enemy jutsu, while one's own power restores!!

A massive chakra bullet in the shape of a large shark, the Jutsu bursts towards the target it's aimed at. It has the ability to absorb the enemies chakra and change that into ones own power. The large shark stores the opponents chakra in it's belly, it's bottomless appetite is sated by it's fangs shredding the enemy to pieces

The opponent's and this jutsu clash, the chakra is eaten which results in a massive release

If you're bringing in other snakes, then Kisame just uses it when he has the opening to do so..If he ends up getting swallowed, he comes out easily by wrecking the snake from inside.


Oru would never get hit aswell with the amount of moves he has to avoid that slow as bullet as well. But lets pretend Oru stays still and allow it to hit him; He gets hit, then Oral rebirths right after it. Or have Manda or the others kill Kisame while he focus on Oru. Or simply Transform to Hydra and tank it. Or summon Rashomon to block. lmao Or he hits a clone. Or Transform to true form and allow White snake poison to take affect. etc etc. That move doesn't "Suck you in" show me a scan stating or hinting that please! And No, no where in the manga stated "only Hinrudora allows you to survive great shark bullet".

I've already addressed GSB being able to absorb chakra and it being a massive blast..What's Oral rebirth doing when then entire body is affected? When I mean suck, I should have said swallowed.


of its user strength. Reation? All they did was use there water bodies to use water prison. They literally have zero Reaction feats to say "they are better then" anything really. Oru has a large chakra pool as well, whats your point? And with Senju hashirama cells body it is even that much more amplified! Oru isn't strong to attempt a Arm wrestling contest to begin with, so "overpowering" oru in base is laughed at! Hydra though, shits and rips Kisame apart no disputing!

Water clones are laughed at.

They reacted to Lee and Neji after just being formed -----> and could physically take their attacks. That was just 10 percent of the 30 percent Kisame clone. 10 percent of the Real Kisame? their own Samehada as well? Oro's featless clones get killed. Oro's chakra pool is not on Kisame's level based on what we know.


Kisames only large ranged attacks are Water shock wave which is nothing more then a wave of water (not killing snakes), 1000 feeding sharks (which are solo'd by Sword snakes.lol), and GSB which doesn't cove a wide range to kill 10000 snakes. So what Move is comparable to 4 tailed naruto shock wave you speak of?

Ok but they still die in the crossfire though..Plus Sharks could go underwater to take advantage of the snakes.


But Hydra literally rips Kisame limb from limb so again what is there to absorb when he is in pieces?


A smaller target isn't as easy to catch you know..Especially when Kisame has the speed to evade him as well as he kept up with Itachi's Shunshin.

No you literally missed the part where it says "LAST OF HIS STRENGTH" Not "ALL OF HIS STRENGTH" or "All of his power/chakra" Oru was stupid weak and not in control and only had a little strength yet TRANSFORMED into Hydra mode no diff! And where in the scan or manga states he can't use other jutsu?????? Where in the scan says he used a shit load of chakra? I'll break it down for you and the veiwers bro:

Last of his strength was just me trying to imply that it did take a lot from him but even so, You're the one that has to prove that while he's using this Jutsu, he can use others as well. It's a ninjutsu that supposed to be his most powerful to extent where it says it surpasses Orochimaru, no reason to believe he can have this Jutsu active while using others to add to it.

8 gates is a What? Jutsu!
Acrobatics (the 8 swords style be uses) is a what? Jutsu!
Morning peacok, EE, Night Gai etc are what? Jutsu!

Not seeing your point here. These are Taijutsu techniques or rather physical techniques unlike 8 branches.

Where does it say they 'NEED CHAKRA' or uses 'chakra'? Hydra is a Transformation Jutsu! It literally says it in the scan!
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What.....?

The arrow shows it's a Ninjutsu technique..How can one initiate this without Charka? Not possible.
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Even transformation Jutsu requires the use of Chakra to transform..Without Chakra, you can;t initiate a technique(Transformation) that's under the category of Ninjutsu. Hence you need chakra, to initiate it. A massive amount given it is his strongest and most powerful Ninjutsu. Only if I had access to the first datebook which properly breaks everything down.

The green points out TRANSFORMATION! As in a new form! You overrate the GSB, show me scalling to make it take out something as large as Hydra/Manda other giants then I might give Kisame low diff/mid diff defeat. Other then that everything you stated is countered by Oru no diff.
Corrected.

You pretty much don't know much about GSB which is why you refer to the scaling all the time:
FIRST
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SECOND
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Haizaki

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Anything else?


How does this counter what I said? Is this supposed to mean he was low on chakra? Nope not one bit.
 

Draegod

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Simply blunt force? It absorbs its chakras further weakening it and the more it absorbs, the stronger it becomes...Hydra has 8 heads but still has a point where all the heads are connected. Once that point is affected, all would be affected.

It is Water... All of Kisame Shark attacks are a Large volume of water that creates a Blunt hit when it connects. Shark bullet is no different whether it Absorbs or not. You seem to think GSB is Infinite and seem to put it in the same no limits fallacy as Yata mirror Stopping Any attack and Totsuka Sealing anything.

In your mind, You seem to think GSB will keep going forward to infinity forever absorbing and growing. Too many things wrong with that misinformed info:

1. It isn't a Astral attack that will phase through things and grow further. If It meets something bigger it will indeed implode upon impact based on Life facts and physics and all around common sense.
2. Snakes bottom sides are allot more dense and durable, and the attack will only tickle them upon impact.

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As you can see from the Pic above I literally had to draw out for you. Once upon impact of a greater Force and Mass The attack will explode on impact. Period! I'll break it down even further.

Water hose? Extreme pressure being fired off constantly right? You ever seen what it looks like when it hits a Concrete wall? What Happens to the water? Does it A) Go straight through the wall B) Bounce off the wall or C) Go around the Wall? I'll wait.....





If you're bringing in the use of other snakes, Kisame creates tons of clones with his Chakra to distract them. Oro can't create clone for clone when he still has to waste a massive amount of Chakra on his techniques unlike Kisame. Worst case, Kisame plays on the defensive and multiple snakes going for him at a time only means they'll get in each other's way trying to hit a small target.

Oru doesnt have to create clone for clone, When 1 Giant snake from the many is more then enough for those weak Clones. Why do you think the CLones are On Naruto's level of capability when they

Non of his clones will have the power to Defeat a single Giant snake whether he has 10/30 clones. They all go poof no diff with the sheer mass and size of attacks!

Then you go to the "Run away" strategy as if Oru is retarded? 10000 Small snakes with Kusanagi swords literally everywhere inside the water per square inch, and you think he will be able to avoid every single snake big and small plus Oru perfectly like some god like chakrater beyond Minato or anyone in speed and evasion magically?


Sasuke did put Oro in a Genjutsu after the poison as well as reversed his technique after the poison. Where you have a point is after he did absorbed him which wasn't before Sasuke did this 2.

Sasuke used VISUAL Genjutsu Which did not require him to move his Head! What is your point? I never said there chakra some how magically gets turnt off. The poison makes them numb and paralyzes them. That means Stops there body from doing what? Moving bro! This is not rocket science I shouldn't have to break it down this level. And what's worse If you still don't get it I can draw it out for you.

If you have White snake Poison through your veins why would you still be affected by it? I don't get why you dont get that.



He can go in the earth but then he's still big enough before his entire body goes in...He pretty much doesn't even have the feat that suggest he can instantly go in without some part being left after it has been fired. And GSB follows him regardless of where he goes with high speed since Kisame could ride at high speed in the min version of GSB


So he was able from Point blank range Dodge an even ! But he wont be able to dodge and/or go underground against a much much smaller attack? I'll break it down:

We Play an extreme Game of Dodge ball. You through a Golf ball at me. I side step it because of how small it is. I throw in comparison to the 3 inch sized Golf ball at you at the same speed. Now which one would most likely hit me or you? The golf ball or Giant Rasengan? The answer is obv the Rasengan since it is more unavoidable correct? But What If even the Giant attack I still mangaed to dodge it?.... That would mean the Smaller attack stands no chance correct?

And where Does it state "It Follows" at please!!?? It was a Linear attack going only Forward! Then you seem to think he is perfectly and magically safe when he does the attack. smh As seen with Gai; Even though he seen GSB had no effect on Gais attack and Gais attack was getting closer, He was defenseless as the attack made contact! And after he was hit, the GSB never even hit guy because since Kisame was no longer in pose the attack didn't continue.

1. He aims at one target.
2. Oru/Snakes/clones will counter attack while he aims.
3. Results in 2 things to happen:
A. Kisame stops the GSB concentration and defend or counter counter attack.
B. Kisame keeps aim, but gets his Head cut off, or Crushed by snakes, or Stabbed by 100 Kusamagis, or ripped to sheds etc etc

Regardess of what happens in step 3, The attack will stop if he is dead or alive.

Then you seem to think every shark attack is the same as GSM. He literaly did water shark missle and you think they will all absorb chakra when it is manga and databook fact they are too different attacks? But Lets pretend I ignore databook and manga fact and say his small ones absorb chakra. Gai who was in contact did not suffer chakra loss. And that small as missile wouldn't even phase any giant summon.





Deathbed doesn't affect his chakra supply...Not the case. He's weakened but that doesn't affect the Chakra available to him. Not being able to perform at your best doesn't mean you're low on chakra supply..Didn't we see this with Itachi and Kimmimaro when they were close to death. Your weakened state doesn't affect the amount of Chakra available to you but rather affects how you battle.

SO even though the manga made it clear... Sasuke made it clear.... Suigetsu made it clear... That there was a big difference In Healthy full power oru and death bed Oru... You think Both Oru's are equal....

Then you think Itachi when healthy wouldn't be better then sick itachi? Really? Ok... If you are to weak to harness and control a certain amount of chakra, then it affects you! Simple logic! I can have all the energy in the world but if my body doesn't allow he to tap into that energy I cannot Do what My limits would allow. The body Oru had was literally rejecting the man. What is there to talk about? especially when the manga made it clear there was a night and day difference in healthy fresh oru and sick dying oru.


Nopee..The just itself doesn't teleport but RISES FROM THE EARTH which is different from all other Space time we've seen and I also underlined where to says one gate requires a huge amount of Chakra let alone 3 and other high leveled techniques.

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Tiny but has the ability to absorb which is the most necessary. It gets stronger so the more chakra available ti it, the stronger it becomes against the opponent regardless of size or whatsoever. Not to mention you're the one underestimating GSB.

Databook

I already Know the databook entry for the attack, nothing new. But you do not understand what Limits and Life facts are to think It is an Infinite unbeatable attack.

What you dont get if. If something is bigger and has more power and mass, it trumps the smaller weaker move! It is not and Astral move that will magically keep going forward and forever absorbing what ever it hits. The attack says "The large shark stores the opponents chakra in it's belly" as in it first has to go through the mouth to absorb first! (common since) But If the target is too big and has more mass and force, how would it get a chance to be absorbed????? It would literally just crush it self against the Large summons body and disperse every single time! This is common since and life facts! DO I have to break it down and draw another Picture bro?

Then You bring up the small as teethe as a means of breaching Giant summons and Hydra Bigger mass and sized body. Each head of . Using scaling would suggest each scale of Hydras body are bigger then Humans. . Now If we compare, Them small as teethe of WATER would do nothing to Giant summons but would at the very worse just bruise the gigantic and masses frame.

The attack isn't the end all be all attack that instantly defeats any and all in front of it bro.


If you're bringing in other snakes, then Kisame just uses it when he has the opening to do so..If he ends up getting swallowed, he comes out easily by wrecking the snake from inside.

He would be crushed or ripped into pieces before being swallowed and instantly melted and Digested with the added affects of poison kicking in. And Why wouldn't I bring in other snakes when that is how he fights?



I've already addressed GSB being able to absorb chakra and it being a massive blast..What's Oral rebirth doing when then entire body is affected? When I mean suck, I should have said swallowed.

And again I already debunked your notion of it being infinite. Rashomon easily Blocks it or Hydra tanks it. Or at worse True form Comes out to play then its GG from there! Since there is nothing he has to even know about the poison and what is about to happen.


They reacted to Lee and Neji after just being formed -----> and could physically take their attacks. That was just 10 percent of the 30 percent Kisame clone. 10 percent of the Real Kisame? their own Samehada as well? Oro's featless clones get killed. Oro's chakra pool is not on Kisame's level based on what we know.

Lee and Neji did not blitz and was Arial coming down. They cannot move in the air, so mute point. Neji isn't strong at all and Lee didnt use a strong strike. So you trying to overrate the clones isn't working when the 2 ninjas didnt go all out. Orus "featless" clones are shadow clones, shadow clones>>>Water clones. What is there to talk about?


Ok but they still die in the crossfire though..Plus Sharks could go underwater to take advantage of the snakes.


WHat crossfire??? You act as though lasers and bombs and bullets would be fired every where. Kisame arsenal does't create "crossfire" to get rid of anything.



A smaller target isn't as easy to catch you know..Especially when Kisame has the speed to evade him as well as he kept up with Itachi's Shunshin.

When you have even smaller targets with kusanagis and Large targets literally everywhere, where is ther to run? Hydra with 8 heads alone would surround him and block escape routes, with the other snakes he is simply surrounded at ALL TIMES! He isn't Minato in the art of escape.lol An Kisame never kept up with Itachi's Shunshin. The databook doesnt even put them on the same speed level, so that point is moot. Plus the fact weren't we fighting in Water????? Are you now saying we are fighting on land to be able to "Shunshin"??? You are switching it up bro.lol Which one is it?



Last of his strength was just me trying to imply that it did take a lot from him but even so, You're the one that has to prove that while he's using this Jutsu, he can use others as well. It's a ninjutsu that supposed to be his most powerful to extent where it says it surpasses Orochimaru, no reason to believe he can have this Jutsu active while using others to add to it.


How did it "take allot" when it was "last" not "All" or "most" of his strength? I don't get your logic. Just because ssomething is a ninjutsu doesn't mean it takes a shit load of chakra. It is literally a transofrmation Jutsu, and it doesn't take much to change modes as seen with other chakracters. So Naruto's most powerful move is TBB, after using it does that mean he can't use anything else????
Minato's is Rasengan, does it mean he can't use his other moves?
Temari's is that fan thing, does it mean nothing else is used after wards?
Itachi's is Amateratsu/Susanoo/Tsukuyomi, does it mean nothing else after it can be used?
Pains is CB, nothing else after it can be used?
etc etc etc etc

Your logic is flawed and not supported, shown, stated, claimed, hinted in the manga or databook. You literally made that up with ZERO SUPPORT! Like Literally!




What.....?

The arrow shows it's a Ninjutsu technique..How can one initiate this without Charka? Not possible.
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Again, where does it say all chakra and no other chakra can be used?????????????????? Show an arrow fro that please!


Even transformation Jutsu requires the use of Chakra to transform..Without Chakra, you can;t initiate a technique(Transformation) that's under the category of Ninjutsu. Hence you need chakra, to initiate it. A massive amount given it is his strongest and most powerful Ninjutsu. Only if I had access to the first datebook which properly breaks everything down.

Where does it say a "massive amount?" and where does it list Oru's chakra pool to say it is his limit? That is where your logic fails miserably! You assume this tech is the end all be all tech in naruto verse that it takes a god amount of chakra with out knowing Oru's chakra limit! Oru was able to summon 4 edo kages no diff, multiple boss summons for fun and summon 3 rashomon gates after 4 rebirths for fun yet you think his chakra is so low he wont be ale to survive any other attempt.... Nothing you are stating is supported by the manga! Where does it say "no other jutsu can be used". PLEASE SHOW ME THAT DATABOOK OR MANGA SCAN! Then with teh Senju body (im not even using Zetsu oru btw) his chakra is that much larger. smh


Corrected.

You pretty much don't know much about GSB which is why you refer to the scaling all the time:
FIRST
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Corrected! You have not posted anything new and nothing I didn't already know!


SECOND
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Read your own scans for once! Once the shark swallowed The attack he commented (it swallowed but didn't get bigger" as in, ONLY AFTER IT GOES IN THE MOUTH OF THE SHARK the attack is absorbed! But if THE TARGET IS BIGGER THEN WHAT THE MOUTH CAN SWALLOW ENTIRELY, how will it get absorbed. Lets use common since in the very scan you posted bro. You literally don't understand the very tech you are trying to use..

How does this counter what I said? Is this supposed to mean he was low on chakra? Nope not one bit.

He is weak after coming from the CM. What don't you get?
 
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