[VS] Hashirama vs Team Overrated

[Brother Numpsay]

Ej, you can't use what Cee said because Cee has never had the Sharingan. He can't see through Sasuke's eyes and besides, he was proven wrong when Sasuke reacted, and managed to coat his Susano'o with Amaterasu before fully clad Ay got to him.

You see, this thing called "character perspective" exists. It's where characters are lead to believe something which may not be accurate/correct because said character isn't in possession of all the facts. Kishi is very good at incorporating it.

At the end of the day, you can only take actual feats and facts into account; conjecture is too unreliable.

OT: Hashirama mid-diff.

I got 10 mins to spar

Even though I concede that point of already, I completely disagree with your reasoning on why Im wrong. Cee not having the Sharingan doesn't mean he knows of its capability. Sasuke NEVER EVER reacted to V2 Ay, and coating himself was the sole reason from it.

 

[KidGamer65]

It isn't valid because your basing your claim that within all their encounters Minato did use Hirashin everytime to match his top speed

No reason to believe he didn't since:

1. You've given me no evidence to the contrary.

2. Minato has no Shunshin feats of him evading Ay's top punch.

3. He evaded Ay's top speed with Hiraishin.

It doesn't work that way. All of the category about his speed is what made him known. Never ever made it specificly for FTG otherwise Minato ever surpass Tobirama

To be honest, no one ever compared Minato to Tobirama in overall speed, just in Shunshin speed. Regardless, your point doesn't make sense since telep

Your going by parallel that Naruto = Hirashin so how is my post nonsense and yours isnt? Minato creates a yellow flash, and its supposedly through FTG, which suppose to teleport you in an instant, not leaving trails?

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For the love of god. Read before you post. Also, I knew you were going to try and use this point, only for me to tell you that it makes no sense. Minato's Shunshin leaves no yellow trail (shown vs. Obito (2 times)), nor does his Hiraishin.......so him making an actual yellow flash obviously isn't why he was called the yellow flash.

If you were smart enough to actually read before you posted, you'd know I already replied to this nonsense. You are the one who is attempting to use parallels to equate Naruto and Minato's speed, yet the manga never said or implied that the parallel was for that purpose, just something you made up to prove your point, since no existing manga evidence proves your point.

Manga parallels Naruto and Minato evading Ay's fist, does that mean that they are equally as fast? Which would also hamper your argument since KCM Naruto and BM Naruto have been paralleled to Minato. Obviously not. So once again, stop using parallels to display equality when no evidence points to that being the purpose of said parallel.

Yes because Naruto was compared to Minato. It doesn't hamper anything but it hampers you interpretation which makes it add contradictions to the manga.

And once again, you've yet to prove that the parallel was to show equality. That simple. Not sure how many times I have to repeat it before you get it.

-Sasuke's Susanoo was paralleled to his old Bow and Arrow from when he was a kid during the Kabuto fight...does that mean that Bow and Arrow=Susanoo Arrow? No.

-You are still trying to argue the incredibly fallacious point that KCM Naruto=Minato in speed, based on the fact that a parallel was made between the two, even though Kakashi said "Sensei!" When he saw BM Naruto deflect those Bijuu Dama and first use Shunshin....if I decided to use your fallacious, nonsense logic, I'd be saying that KCM Naruto=Base Minato=BM Naruto in Shunshin, even though KCM Naruto and BM Naruto CAN'T be equal because BM is faster, not to mention Base Minato can't be equal with both of them at once for the same reason.

Please stop with this argument. You make no sense.

 

[KidGamer65]

arent some of you the ones who claim tobiramas reflexes and reaction are greater than minatos? So in that case, tobirama is the fastest according to some of you right? But again, I'm not seeing any of that in tobiramas databook. He had FTG, he had good reflexes and reactions just like minato, and some of you say tobirama is better.. so by your logic, tobirama must be the fastest.

By feats? Sure. Databook hypes Minato up way too much for me to continue claiming that Tobirama is faster in said aspect. Though there's the fact that Tobirama never directly compared himself to Minato when it comes to overall speed, just Shunshin.

Kishi didn't have to come out and say minato is the fastest without it, it's basic reading comprehension. It doesn't even require you to read inbetween the lines, its so obvious. Where has it ever stated that minato was the fastest because of FTG? Because I can tell you that it says that no where. That's just you applying what you want to believe. It may be the reason for his nickname, but it's not the reason he's the fastest.

Except you are going to need to prove that. Kishimoto implies heavily, that Minato is the fastest. Point, blank period. "Without Hiraishin" is just something that you added into said implication to make it seem like what it is what is in the manga..but it's not. Kishimoto implying that Minato is the fastest, means Minato with EVERYTHING HE HAS is the fastest. Get me proof and not "It's so obvious" that Kishi's implcations and portrayal restrict Hiraishin from Minato.

The fact I'm even hearing "Basic reading comprehension" and "Obvious" from you only means you have no real proof behind your statements.

You really trying hard to deny this aren't you Lol, Tobirama just praised his body flicker, yet you're saying he might have used FTG wow, that's really reaching. He reached the battlefield 2 mins before the former fastest ninja of his time. And not only that, performed many actions during that time, to show off his speed. You realize their are multiple minato shunshin feats that blow all of Ays out of the water?

Never said that. I said you have zero proof what he used to spread said markings. Arriving at the battlefield was his Shunshin, as Tobirama stated. Though this point is irrelevant to me since proving Minato's Shunshin is faster than Tobirama's=/=Proving that it's faster than Ay's.

All you can bring are him crossing large distances in short amounts of time, not conclusive cold hard feats that outright show him being faster than Ay. Hashirama and Madara were crossing Mountain distances during their fight....doesn't mean that they are faster than Ay, who has never done such a thing.

Yamato said kcm shunshin isn't on minatos level yet. But lemmie guess, you think that yamato was comparing narutos speed to hiraishin Lol. Obito said minato lived up to his name, after he saw minato use body flicker. So right there pretty much disproves that minatos speed and alias only came down to FTG.

Read the manga please. Yamato said that "He's not on the fourth's level yet" after seeing him get his foot stuck in the wall. He never said "KCM Naruto's Shunshin isn't on Minato's level yet". Don't add in words to prove your argument. If Yamato had anything to say about his speed, he would have said it when Naruto performed said speed feat, not after Naruto cries out saying his foot is stuck.

And please don't tell me to tell you what Yamato was referring to, cause I already proved it's not speed, and I don't really care to do anything else.

Space time ninjutsu doesn't make someone fast. Kakashi witnessed Obitos space time ninjutsu for the first time, and said it surpassed Minato's. Yet kakashi didn't claim tobi was the fastest ninja he'd ever seen.

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. Might Guy praised for having . Guy who also has the greatest striking speed and one of the best reflexes and speed, was never even remotely praised as the fastest.

Manga and actual common sense outright disagree with you. Who gets to point A or Point B faster? A guy who can teleport, or the same guy w/o teleportation? Whose faster? Obviously the guy with teleportation. If Hiraishin wasn't speed in this manga, Minato wouldn't be getting speed hype from using Hiraishin. That simple.

Your Kakashi example fails considering Kamui being better than Hiraishin=/=Kamui being faster than Hiraishin. Your Gai example doesn't even matter to the main point. Gai not being praised as the fastest doesn't change the fact that Minato's standing on the speed ladder is because of all of his jutsu, Hiraishin including, not him w/o Hiraishin.

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"Yondaime Hokage's Jutsu. The reason he's known as the Yellow Flash"

If Shunshin were the reason, he wouldn't have needed Hiraishin to be known as the Yellow Flash.

 

[Bronze]

The same way Sasuke achieved PS and Legged V3 by Kyuubi's Chakra, is the same way Itachi will replicate the same feat by Minato channeling Kurama's Chakra. Which by that, Sasuke could equally battle Juubito (who Hashirama admitted inferiority and got shat by). This means PS with Yata blocking all of Hashirama's techniques, and Totsuka, if makes physical contact with Hashirama's body, it's a KO.

Team 2 shits, and BM Minato solos on his own.

 

[Gold Lightning]

By feats? Sure. Databook hypes Minato up way too much for me to continue claiming that Tobirama is faster in said aspect. Though there's the fact that Tobirama never directly compared himself to Minato when it comes to overall speed, just Shunshin.

That's your problem if it hypes him up too much for your liking. You just made a claim that it comes down to overall speed, yet at the same time claim tobirama is better in all those speed aspects. Yet tobirama isn't noted to be faster than minato. So you have no point. Speed meaning from point A to B. Not relfexes and reactions and all that BS. Those are different categories entirely. Minato and Tobirama can both move from point A to B at the same time, yet Tobirama isn't the fastest with his supposed reflexes, and reactions that you guys like to fanfic yourselves. So therefore you have no argument, and are contradicting yourself.

Except you are going to need to prove that. Kishimoto implies heavily, that Minato is the fastest. Point, blank period. "Without Hiraishin" is just something that you added into said implication to make it seem like what it is what is in the manga..but it's not. Kishimoto implying that Minato is the fastest, means Minato with EVERYTHING HE HAS is the fastest. Get me proof and not "It's so obvious" that Kishi's implcations and portrayal restrict Hiraishin from Minato.

What do I need to prove? That minato is the fastest, that's fact. Read the manga, read the databook. Did you not see the Obito scan that compliments minatos speed with his nickname? I don't need to prove how fast minato is without FTG, the manga does it for me time after time. And it's down to your own ignorance on whether you choose to ignore it.


The fact I'm even hearing "Basic reading comprehension" and "Obvious" from you only means you have no real proof behind your statements.

Never said that. I said you have zero proof what he used to spread said markings. Arriving at the battlefield was his Shunshin, as Tobirama stated. Though this point is irrelevant to me since proving Minato's Shunshin is faster than Tobirama's=/=Proving that it's faster than Ay's.

:vincent: Please enlighten me as to how Minato could've spread all those markings then. What other alternatives are there? Id really like to know.

He used his hands and freaking ran a ring around the Juubi, so fast that no one saw, noticed or sensed him

All you can bring are him crossing large distances in short amounts of time, not conclusive cold hard feats that outright show him being faster than Ay. Hashirama and Madara were crossing Mountain distances during their fight....doesn't mean that they are faster than Ay, who has never done such a thing.

Madara and Hashirama showed leaping and jumping. Minato showed straight up shunshuin from A to B in the blink of an eye.

You say all I can show is him crossing large distances as if those aren't feats. Lol Wow you are desperate here. Yes he crosses large distances, distances Ay only wishes he can replicate. If someone has better feats than another, in addition to manga hype, databook hype and facts, I fail to see what's so unbelievable.

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(kakashi ran all that distance, and minato gets there in a second)
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(replicates the same feat again, while carrying load)
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(praised for his body flicker, yet his nickname the yellow flash is used. So again, not just FTG)
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(another incredibly long distance feat, a feat Ay has never replicated)
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(dashes out of a room and escapes a blast, despite the explsion already having been set off before he noticed and reacted)
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(deny his arrival feat all you want, the gap he left between them was massive, considering all the things he did before that)
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(faster than kakashi can move his hand. Inb4 kcm. Doesn't matter if it was kcm, that feat isn't even his best one, nothing he can't replicate in base. But I guess Ei is still faster than this feat right Lol)

Read the manga please. Yamato said that "He's not on the fourth's level yet" after seeing him get his foot stuck in the wall. He never said "KCM Naruto's Shunshin isn't on Minato's level yet". Don't add in words to prove your argument. If Yamato had anything to say about his speed, he would have said it when Naruto performed said speed feat, not after Naruto cries out saying his foot is stuck.


And please don't tell me to tell you what Yamato was referring to, cause I already proved it's not speed, and I don't really care to do anything else.

You must be on something right now. So what exactly was Yamato comparing to Minato then???? It can't be FTG because that's instantaneous, Naruto can never surpass or reach that level unless he learns the technique himself. And you were acting like you have basic reading comprhension Lol. Obviosuly Yamato is referring to shunshin. Naruto blitzes, and Killer Bee calls it the teleport technique aka the body flicker. To which yamato then said it's not on minatos level yet. It was almost a direct comparison between Minatos feat of catching baby naruto and slamming into a wall, yet narutos control is unrefined, hence why he injures himself. It's kishi making subtle distinctions like he always does. Even making bee say all he saw was a yellow flash...Again comparing narutos shunshin to minatos.

Honestly, I thought you were better than this. If you really believe Yamato wasn't referring to speed, then you are a lost and hopeless cause.

Manga and actual common sense outright disagree with you. Who gets to point A or Point B faster? A guy who can teleport, or the same guy w/o teleportation? Whose faster? Obviously the guy with teleportation. If Hiraishin wasn't speed in this manga, Minato wouldn't be getting speed hype from using Hiraishin. That simple.

Obito gets from A to B faster than anyone. So does Zetsu. Yet Minato is still praised as the fastest. Obito is never praised for his speed, at least not to minatos level. Nor is zetsu. So no, teleportaion doesn't make you the fastest. Tobirama has the same teleportation as minato and he's not the fastest.

Your Kakashi example fails considering Kamui being better than Hiraishin=/=Kamui being faster than Hiraishin. Your Gai example doesn't even matter to the main point. Gai not being praised as the fastest doesn't change the fact that Minato's standing on the speed ladder is because of all of his jutsu, Hiraishin including, not him w/o Hiraishin.

No it doesn't fail. Kakshi never commended Tobi on being fast. He only noted that his space time jutsu is superior to minatos. You said someone who has teleportation that can get to point A to B faster than someone who doesn't makes them fast. In that case, after Ay's failed blitz attempt against Tobi, after witnessing him save sasuke faster than Jinton could disintegrate him, after fully witnessing Tobi teleport away after his talk. Kishi still states Ay is the fastest alive, Ay still states he's the fastest even after seeing Tobi.

When has anyone ever commented on Tobi/Obito being fast, in the entirety of this manga? Probably the only person was zetsu for his teleportation. Yet he's still not faster than Ay.

If Shunshin were the reason, he wouldn't have needed Hiraishin to be known as the Yellow Flash.[/QUOTE]
The bold is a complete joke on your part. It's just a nickname. "Yellow flash" and "the Fastest" are two separate titles. If he didn't have FTG, then he'd just be know as the fastest. The nickname derives from the FTG technique, however he is still praised in the manga, by KISHI for his body flicker and speed without FTG. Even others commending his title "yellow flash" after a shunshin feat. So that databook scan doesnt do anything for you.

 

[Rosae]

Lol at Ei being faster than yellow flash. Space time ninjutsu not make you faster than someone, raterded logic. Otherwise obito faster than ei according that logic.

How can someone call you fastest shinobi. Yet person who say still beat other guy in race?? Contradict entire statement. Databook say it, Tobirama say it, hiruzen say it. Kcm naruto put below minato speed by yamato. Bm naruto speed compare to minato from kakashi.

Hiraishin not requirement for minato to be faster than ei.

Thank you for bringing facts to the table.

 

[KidGamer65]

That's your problem if it hypes him up too much for your liking. You just made a claim that it comes down to overall speed, yet at the same time claim tobirama is better in all those speed aspects. Yet tobirama isn't noted to be faster than minato. So you have no point. Speed meaning from point A to B. Not relfexes and reactions and all that BS. Those are different categories entirely. Minato and Tobirama can both move from point A to B at the same time, yet Tobirama isn't the fastest with his supposed reflexes, and reactions that you guys like to fanfic yourselves. So therefore you have no argument, and are contradicting yourself.

Never did. I suggest you read my post before you actually post.

Speed? Speed in it's literal scientific definition is referred to movement from Point A and B. Anyone who actually reads the manga (Which would obviously not be you) knows that "speed" can be divided into many different categories. In fact, let me get you the actual definition of the word speed.

the rate at which someone or something is able to move or operate.
"we turned onto the runway and began to gather speed"
synonyms: rate, pace, tempo, momentum
"the speed of their progress"
2.
rapidity of movement or action.
"the accident was due to excessive speed"
synonyms: rapidity, swiftness, speediness, quickness, dispatch, promptness, immediacy, briskness, sharpness; More
the rate at which something happens or is done.
"they were bemused by the speed of events"
3.
each of the possible gear ratios of a bicycle or motor vehicle.
4.
the light-gathering power or f-number of a camera lens.
the duration of a photographic exposure.
the sensitivity of photographic film to light.
5.
informal
an amphetamine drug, especially methamphetamine.
6.
informal
something that matches one's tastes or inclinations.
"oak tables and chairs are more his speed"
7.
archaic
success; prosperity.
"wish me good speed"
verb
verb: speed; 3rd person present: speeds; past tense: sped; past participle: sped; gerund or present participle: speeding
1.
move quickly.
"I got into the car and home we sped"
synonyms: hurry, rush, dash, run, race, sprint, bolt, dart, gallop, career, charge, shoot, hurtle, careen, hare, fly, zoom, scurry, scuttle, scamper, hasten; More
(of a motorist) travel at a speed that is greater than the legal limit.
past tense: speeded; past participle: speeded
"the car that crashed was speeding"
synonyms: drive too fast, exceed the speed limit
"he was caught speeding"
move or work more quickly.
"you force yourself to speed up because you don't want to keep others waiting"
cause to move, act, or happen more quickly.
"recent initiatives have sought to speed up decision-making"
synonyms: hasten, expedite, speed up, accelerate, advance, further, promote, boost, stimulate, aid, assist, facilitate
"a warmer climate will speed his recovery"
2.
archaic
make prosperous or successful.
"may God speed you"

So no, this "only moves from point A to point B" bullshit you are trying to pull isn't how the manga views speed..and I take the mangas views over yours any day.

-Naruto and Minato dodged Ay's punch, except Minato needed Hiraishin to do it. Minato was paralleled to him because they both did the same feat, and they are both extremely fast...yet we have you saying that "Hiraishin isn't speed" Lol. Despite the manga consistently viewing it as such.

-Reaction speed.
-Reflexes. The faster they are, the faster you will be to react, meaning your reaction speed goes up, meaning you are faster.
-Striking speed

If Minato and Goku were to race from Point A to Point B, which is already marked. Minato would lose. Even though they both have instant teleportation, Goku's reactions>>>>>>Minato's reactions. He'd activate it first, and thus reach the finish line first, thus Goku is faster.

What do I need to prove? That minato is the fastest, that's fact. Read the manga, read the databook. Did you not see the Obito scan that compliments minatos speed with his nickname? I don't need to prove how fast minato is without FTG, the manga does it for me time after time. And it's down to your own ignorance on whether you choose to ignore it.

I said prove that Minato is the fastest without Hiraishin. Reading Comp. 101, I highly suggest you take it. The manga has portrayed Minato to be at the pedestal he is held at, because of Hiraishin, not because of his Shunshin. If you disagree, I suggest you get me panels of the manga stating or implying that he's the fastest w/o said jutsu.

:vincent: Please enlighten me as to how Minato could've spread all those markings then. What other alternatives are there? Id really like to know.

He used his hands and freaking ran a ring around the Juubi, so fast that no one saw, noticed or sensed him

Nice assumption. Tossing Kunai and teleporting is faster than just running around..not to mention Naruto said he sensed him and the others approaching, so nice try with the last part.

Me bringing alternatives or not isn't going to change the fact that you are making assumptions.

Madara and Hashirama showed leaping and jumping. Minato showed straight up shunshuin from A to B in the blink of an eye.

Your point?

You say all I can show is him crossing large distances as if those aren't feats. Lol Wow you are desperate here. Yes he crosses large distances, distances Ay only wishes he can replicate. If someone has better feats than another, in addition to manga hype, databook hype and facts, I fail to see what's so unbelievable.

Never said they aren't feats, I just said that you aren't proving that he's faster than Ay. The rest is useless since anyone with an unbiased mind (Not you) knows that all of Minato's hype of being the fastest comes from Shunshin, not Hiraishin.

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(kakashi ran all that distance, and minato gets there in a second)
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(replicates the same feat again, while carrying load

See, this is the issue. You are giving me every speed feat, without explaining to me how this puts him above Ay. Nice job proving that Minato>>>>Kid Kakashi in speed.

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(praised for his body flicker, yet his nickname the yellow flash is used. So again, not just FTG)

Yellow Flash is a name he gained because he was extremely fast, if he shows that his Shunshin is also fast, then of course he'll be called the Yellow Flash, but DB 2 already confirms why and how Minato got his nickname...Hiraishin. Don't bother trying to debate manga fact.

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(another incredibly long distance feat, a feat Ay has never replicated)

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(dashes out of a room and escapes a blast, despite the explsion already having been set off before he noticed and reacted)

Hate to break your bubble here. He used Hiraishin. "SFX: FFP" is never ever used for Shunshin. Only for Hiraishin.

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So...not an applicable feat.

Also, dodging a point blank explosion isn't anything compared to dodging Amaterasu...so no, try again.

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(deny his arrival feat all you want, the gap he left between them was massive, considering all the things he did before that)

You've proved that he's faster than the rest.

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(faster than kakashi can move his hand. Inb4 kcm. Doesn't matter if it was kcm, that feat isn't even his best one, nothing he can't replicate in base. But I guess Ei is still faster than this feat right Lol)

Lol, what a joke. KCM>>Base. I don't give a shit what you believe Minato can perform in base, because it's already a manga fact that KCM enhances speed, meaning he obviously can't perform the same exact feat in the same exact speed.

You must be on something right now. So what exactly was Yamato comparing to Minato then???? It can't be FTG because that's instantaneous, Naruto can never surpass or reach that level unless he learns the technique himself. And you were acting like you have basic reading comprhension Lol. Obviosuly Yamato is referring to shunshin. Naruto blitzes, and Killer Bee calls it the teleport technique aka the body flicker. To which yamato then said it's not on minatos level yet. It was almost a direct comparison between Minatos feat of catching baby naruto and slamming into a wall, yet narutos control is unrefined, hence why he injures himself. It's kishi making subtle distinctions like he always does. Even making bee say all he saw was a yellow flash...Again comparing narutos shunshin to minatos.

Not speed. I already replied to this, not gonna do it again. If anything, he was referring to Minato's control. Repeating the same bullshit I replied to isn't going to make it any less false.

-Naruto uses Shunshin.
-Yamato is at a loss for words.
-B says that he only saw a yellow flash.
-Then it shows Naruto's foot stuck in the wall.
-THEN and only then does Yamato say he's not at the fourth's level.

If it was a reply to his speed, he would have replied AFTER Naruto used Shunshin, not only after Naruto had cried out that his foot was stuck in the wall. Read the manga buddy. I don't know if you are just acting dumb here because you are desperate, or whether you actually lack the proper reading comprehension, even though you only need elementary school level reading comprehension to know that Yamato referred to Naruto getting stuck in the wall, not to his speed. Anything to hype up Minato though amirite?

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Read it. Please. For the love of God.

Honestly, I thought you were better than this. If you really believe Yamato wasn't referring to speed, then you are a lost and hopeless cause.

The only lost and hopeless cause is the Minato fan (Why am I not surprised) who can't read the manga, or who can only twist it since the actual interpretation doesn't agree with him.

Obito gets from A to B faster than anyone. So does Zetsu. Yet Minato is still praised as the fastest. Obito is never praised for his speed, at least not to minatos level. Nor is zetsu. So no, teleportaion doesn't make you the fastest. Tobirama has the same teleportation as minato and he's not the fastest.

What in the hell are you talking about? Hiraishin is INSTANT. Obito and Zetsu are not. Tobirama's reaction speed is INFERIOR to Minato's.. Not to mention barely anyone knows that he exists, nor does anyone know the specifics of his jutsu.

No it doesn't fail. Kakshi never commended Tobi on being fast. He only noted that his space time jutsu is superior to minatos.

Irrelevant, cause w/ or w/o Kamui, Tobi isn't faster.

You said someone who has teleportation that can get to point A to B faster than someone who doesn't makes them fast.

1. I said the same guy. That isn't a way to measure speed when comparing two different people, because there are other factors that'd be used to measure their speed. Is Kaguya slower than Sasuke? Nope. Cause she danced around his attacks. Is Naruto slower than Sasuke? Nope.

2. Doesn't mean that that's the only way to measure speed, cause it isn't. DB consistently refers to Hiraishin as speed. There's nothhing more to argue about.

In that case, after Ay's failed blitz attempt against Tobi, after witnessing him save sasuke faster than Jinton could disintegrate him, after fully witnessing Tobi teleport away after his talk. Kishi still states Ay is the fastest alive, Ay still states he's the fastest even after seeing Tobi.

Obito's teleportation is slower than the Gudo Dama at close range, and Gai was able to save Kakashi from the Gudo Dama at the same exact range, and Ay>>>5th/6th Gate Gai in speed. So Ay can still be considered faster. His failed blitz attempt is irrelevant since that isn't speed, nor does Ay even know how it works to begin gauging it as speed.

When has anyone ever commented on Tobi/Obito being fast, in the entirety of this manga? Probably the only person was zetsu for his teleportation. Yet he's still not faster than Ay.

Please read above.

The bold is a complete joke on your part. It's just a nickname. "Yellow flash" and "the Fastest" are two separate titles. If he didn't have FTG, then he'd just be know as the fastest. The nickname derives from the FTG technique, however he is still praised in the manga, by KISHI for his body flicker and speed without FTG. Even others commending his title "yellow flash" after a shunshin feat. So that databook scan doesnt do anything for you.

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Yellow Flash is a nickname he got because he was fast, not because of the name of the jtusu he uses. His speed is recognized because of Hiraishin, as he got that title and recognition only after getting Hiraishin, not his Shunshin. He would've been called the fastest long before Hiraishin if Hiraishin wasn't the reason for his speed's recognition.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No reason to believe he didn't since:

1. You've given me no evidence to the contrary.

2. Minato has no Shunshin feats of him evading Ay's top punch.

3. He evaded Ay's top speed with Hiraishin.

1. [

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] Once again Ay stated they fought more then once. The flash back scenario was their FIRST battle. They No NOTHING of each other but REP. Ay attack first and suprised Minato. According to you, since your dropping all reason to sound right: They have been repeating the battle strategy. 1. Minato waits for a blitz then teleports and hopes for an opening, Lol. Your taking a context of one fight to determine their many fights of dodging Ay's full speed.

2. Um yes he does, wither you like it or not. Users already post scans of Minato saving his baby and his wife. Both times Obito expressed it of known from being the flash. "moniker, yellow flash" "a FLASH of hope": and no sign of Hiraishin being used. So his speed is still well known of being the fastest shinobi alive. Period.

To be honest, no one ever compared Minato to Tobirama in overall speed, just in Shunshin speed. Regardless, your point doesn't make sense since telep

It was to make your statement foolish to think Madara (who = <Hashirama+SM in CQC) admitting inferior to Tobirama's speed and knowing superior to any Kage/Raikages during Tobirama's reign, is somehow superior or close to Minato's speed. The titled shouldn't be past down to Minato because of FTG.

And you better back it up that Tobirama was stated the fastest of his reign due to FTG.

For the love of god. Read before you post. Also, I knew you were going to try and use this point, only for me to tell you that it makes no sense. Minato's Shunshin leaves no yellow trail (shown vs. Obito (2 times)), nor does his Hiraishin.......so him making an actual yellow flash obviously isn't why he was called the yellow flash.

Doesn't matter what they didn't show. For all we know Minato's full speed actually makes that effect. It was express by viewing Naruto on how it resembled Minato. And at least Tsunade view made that perfectly clear.

And once again, you've yet to prove that the parallel was to show equality. That simple. Not sure how many times I have to repeat it before you get it.

Im going to have repeat until you read the context:

Bee: "Was that teleportation Jutsu...? First at bat, quite a smash♪
That was just like...

...The Yellow Flash!♪

Bee's express the similarity. Theres no other way around reading it. "Oh bee feel its the same thing but really << Naruto". NO.

-Sasuke's Susanoo was paralleled to his old Bow and Arrow from when he was a kid during the Kabuto fight...does that mean that Bow and Arrow=Susanoo Arrow? No.

Two completely different scenario to try to prove a false point.

-You are still trying to argue the incredibly fallacious point that KCM Naruto=Minato in speed, based on the fact that a parallel was made between the two, even though Kakashi said "Sensei!" When he saw BM Naruto deflect those Bijuu Dama and first use Shunshin....if I decided to use your fallacious, nonsense logic, I'd be saying that KCM Naruto=Base Minato=BM Naruto in Shunshin, even though KCM Naruto and BM Naruto CAN'T be equal because BM is faster, not to mention Base Minato can't be equal with both of them at once for the same reason.

So you to discard evidence and decided to pull the statement out of your ass, that some how Naruto going BM, Shunshin faster, with absolute no implications and evidence to back up it up. BM= full access of Kurama chakra. It was never implied "since I have full access of the chakra I can move faster to the chakra that already made this fast".

Let me get this straight.......EJ Black is saying Minato without FTG is faster than Ay even though he needed FTG to avoid getting pummeled?

:leaf: What a freaking retard.

A freaking retard would actually read. The statement Im going with is Ay's statement of battling Minato MANY times. Their first encounter with Manga intel of the time, only know each other by rep not their abilities. Not even KCM Naruto can dodge or out run the Raikage when he starts the battle standing still.

Stay irrelevant dumb ass.

 

[Demonic.]

A freaking retard would actually read. The statement Im going with is Ay's statement of battling Minato MANY times. Their first encounter with Manga intel of the time, only know each other by rep not their abilities. Not even KCM Naruto can dodge or out run the Raikage when he starts the battle standing still.

Stay irrelevant dumb ass.

>Do you have any proof dumbass?

>Ay says they "fought many times", so what dumbass?

>That doesn't mean Minato's footspeed is on par with V2 Ay, dumbass.

As always making shit up to prove your point. What can be expected from the retard that thinks Kabuto can use Flower Tree World. Keep looking like a dumbass kid.

 

[MasqueradeNX]

Hashirama stomps aha cant believe people are debating it n.n

 

[Brother Numpsay]

>Do you have any proof dumbass?

>Ay says they "fought many times", so what dumbass?

>That doesn't mean Minato's footspeed is on par with V2 Ay, dumbass.

As always making shit up to prove your point. What can be expected from the retard that thinks Kabuto can use Flower Tree World. Keep looking like a dumbass kid.

> Dont reply to the evidence I actually post and say I didn't add any prove, dumbass
> It means their first encounter wasn't their last dumbass. A dumbass like you wouldnt get the that the fights wouldnt replicate the same scenario. Especially when we have scenes of no FTG speed and still gets recognition of being called the Yellow Flash, via Obito. Dumbass
> Actually it does dumbass since they fought many times and Ay states his speed couldn't be surpass. Therefore you can't take one scenario, where they first met, to determine the ending conclusion on why he is still reign the fastest dumbass. Yamato, Tsunade, and Kakashi made that clear of Minato foot speed dumbass.

> As always you try your best to act like you know what you talking about, only to still be irrelevant and stupid.

 

[Demonic.]

> Dont reply to the evidence I actually post and say I didn't add any prove, dumbass
> It means their first encounter wasn't their last dumbass. A dumbass like you wouldnt get the that the fights wouldnt replicate the same scenario.
> Actually it does dumbass since they fought many times and Ay states his speed couldn't be surpass. Therefore you can't take one scenario, where they first met, to determine the ending conclusion on why he is still reign the fastest dumbass. Yamato, Tsunade, and Kakashi made that clear of Minato foot speed dumbass.

> As always you try your best to act like you know what you talking about, only to still be irrelevant and stupid.

You're a freaking idiot. Just because they fought more than once doesn't mean Minato's foot speed is faster than Ay retard.

" Ay states his speed couldn't be surpassed".

SO? How the fùck do you know Ay was talking about his footspeed? He meant with FTG. Do you have any evidence to support the contrary or are you just giving me your dumbass opinion?

Considering you think Kabuto can perform Flower Tree World your opinion is trash.

 

[BLAZE]

Hashi spanks them

 

[Brother Numpsay]

]\

SO? How the fùck do you know Ay was talking about his footspeed? He meant with FTG. Do you have any evidence to support the contrary or are you just giving me your dumbass opinion?

Considering you think Kabuto can perform Flower Tree World your opinion is trash.

So apparently your making Ay's broad statement of speed, specific? Your opinion is just as valid as mine dumbass.
I can say the same to you, where did Ay meant FTG is the reason why his speed cannot be surpass? Lol. We have both foot speed panel time and FTG panel time that was statement and express of what makes Minato the fastest and known as the Yellow Flash.

Stay stupid.

 

[Demonic.]

So apparently your making Ay's broad statement of speed, specific? Your opinion is just as valid as mine dumbass.
I can say the same to you, where did Ay meant FTG is the reason why his speed cannot be surpass? Lol. We have both foot speed panel time and FTG panel time that was statement and express of what makes Minato the fastest and known as the Yellow Flash.

Stay stupid.

Because the reason Minato was known as the FASTEST ninja was because of FTG you IDIOT.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Because the reason Minato was known as the FASTEST ninja was because of FTG you IDIOT.

NO idiot no where in the manga was it stated specifically because of FTG otherwise Obito words isn't being credited nor Tsunade, Kakashi, and Yamato's words expressing KM Naruto's speed. IDIOT.

Stay irate and irrelevant. Theres no need to continue replying to you.

Edit: I see you KG I rather reply to you tomorrow if I have time. GN.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. [

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] Once again Ay stated they fought more then once. The flash back scenario was their FIRST battle. They No NOTHING of each other but REP. Ay attack first and suprised Minato. According to you, since your dropping all reason to sound right: They have been repeating the battle strategy.

Already know this. What you've failed to prove is WHY it matters. Lol. Read and then reply.

1. Minato waits for a blitz then teleports and hopes for an opening, Lol. Your taking a context of one fight to determine their many fights of dodging Ay's full speed.

Minato didn't wait for shit, in fact he wouldn't know a blitz was coming since he doesn't know shit about Ay as it was there first meeting. All I see are you guys claiming Minato is faster than Ay on foot, yet he has no feat that'd put him above Ay. All I see is him evading Ay with Hiraishin when the latter used his top speed.

Ay acknowledged Minato's speed after he dodged his top speed punch. He did that with Hiraishin. Ay considers Minato the fastest because of Hiraishin, just like the rest of the Shinobi world does.

2. Um yes he does, wither you like it or not. Users already post scans of Minato saving his baby and his wife. Both times Obito expressed it of known from being the flash. "moniker, yellow flash" "a FLASH of hope": and no sign of Hiraishin being used. So his speed is still well known of being the fastest shinobi alive. Period.

Already posted the Databook. Sorry pal. I've already replied to this same point.

-He used Hiraishin when he saved Kushina. Read before replying so I don't have to repeat myself to counter points that others have already brought up.

-Him saying that Minato lives up to the name Yellow Flash (When he saved Naruto) doesn't change how Minato got the name to begin with.

Though it's always nice seeing people try to deny manga fact. Amusing.

It was to make your statement foolish to think Madara (who = <Hashirama+SM in CQC) admitting inferior to Tobirama's speed and knowing superior to any Kage/Raikages during Tobirama's reign, is somehow superior or close to Minato's speed. The titled shouldn't be past down to Minato because of FTG.


And you better back it up that Tobirama was stated the fastest of his reign due to FTG.

Whoever said that Madara is faster than Tobirama?

Doesn't matter what they didn't show. For all we know Minato's full speed actually makes that effect. It was express by viewing Naruto on how it resembled Minato. And at least Tsunade view made that perfectly clear.

We've seen Minato's Shunshin, two to three times in this manga, and there was no yellow flash. If you believe that it shows this, get me the proof. "For all we know" isn't an argument, though I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Thus he gets his moniker because of his speed, and the DB already tells us how he got said moniker, because of Hiraishin.

Im going to have repeat until you read the context:

Bee: "Was that teleportation Jutsu...? First at bat, quite a smash♪
That was just like...

...The Yellow Flash!♪

Bee's express the similarity. Theres no other way around reading it. "Oh bee feel its the same thing but really << Naruto". NO.

Already explained why your parallels don't work. Continuing to repeat a defeated point isn't going to make this argument any easier on you.

Two completely different scenario to try to prove a false point.

Nope. They are exactly the same. You are using a parallel to try and prove equality, when no parallel proves equality, ever.

So you to discard evidence and decided to pull the statement out of your ass, that some how Naruto going BM, Shunshin faster, with absolute no implications and evidence to back up it up. BM= full access of Kurama chakra. It was never implied "since I have full access of the chakra I can move faster to the chakra that already made this fast".

Being able to deflect 5 Bijuu Dama w/ speed and strength alone>Any of KCM's speed feats. When Naruto gets cloaks, he gets faster. The more advanced his cloak, the stronger his physical stats rise. Better cloak=Better Shunshin. BM Naruto's speed feats>KCM Naruto's speed feats.

Unless you want to try and prove that KCM cloak=BM cloak, you have no argument here. Not to mention getting full access to the full strength and amount of Kurama's Chakra, means his moves become better. Full access to Kurama's unrestricted chakra>>>KCM chakra in both strength and amount.

So either prove that KCM=BM in speed, or drop this nonsense point about parallels proving that Minato=KCM Naruto in speed, cause I can say the same thing I can come to the conclusion Minato=BM Naruto in speed.

Though if you'd actually read the manga instead of posting BS, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Demonic.]

NO idiot no where in the manga was it stated specifically because of FTG otherwise Obito words isn't being credited nor Tsunade, Kakashi, and Yamato's words expressing KM Naruto's speed. IDIOT.

Stay irate and irrelevant. Theres no need to continue replying to you.

Edit: I see you KG I rather reply to you tomorrow if I have time. GN.

It's stated here you illiterate clown

Spoiler

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>FTG, the reason for his alias Yellow Flash
>Not comparable to the movement speed of Sunshin
>Flight across space and time in an instant

---

Tobirama was also hailed as the fastest shinobi:

Spoiler

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What technique does Tobirama have that Minato HAS? FTG maybe? Do you see a connection?

>Are you telling me that it was just a coincidence that both shinobi hailed as the fastest just happened to be FTG users? It's because of FTG that they were the fastest. It's clear as day.

Do you realize how stupid you sound? Keep twisting the manga to try and prove your points dumbass. Post a scan saying they were called the fastest for their footspeed or gtfo. You're nothing but a joke.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Already know this. What you've failed to prove is WHY it matters. Lol. Read and then reply.

Why it matters: So we shouldn't only base their battle from their first experience. Since we have witness Obito praising Minato Shisuin. Which gives a reason why he keeps the title as the fastest to the end of Ay's experience with him. Minto's first experience didn't know what to expect and almost got blitz.

Its as much as believing KCM Naruto wouldn't have been able to dodge Ay's punch if just stood there, trying to react to it. Naruto had to remain in motion to outpace Ay. Standing still is not an option for him as much as Minato.

Minato didn't wait for shit, in fact he wouldn't know a blitz was coming since he doesn't know shit about Ay as it was there first meeting.

Thats exactly my point! As address above.

Ay acknowledged Minato's speed after he dodged his top speed punch. He did that with Hiraishin. Ay considers Minato the fastest because of Hiraishin, just like the rest of the Shinobi world does.

Again your basing off their first battle, a motionless Minato with no intel. Ay never mention FTG being the only reason he acknowledge Minato's speed being superior (he was never specific). All he mention was speed. Minato fighting Ay many times means he had to keep dealing with Ay's speed. So that means Ay keeps getting played and teleportation and keeps getting play by Minatos reacting to it, just to teleport away from it, every single time?

Already posted the Databook. Sorry pal. I've already replied to this same point.

Ok we got DB stating how he got his title. And we also have manga Shishin to live up it too.

-He used Hiraishin when he saved Kushina. Read before replying so I don't have to repeat myself to counter points that others have already brought up.

Um no he didn't that scan fully supports bodyflicker. No markings around his wife/area, about to get crushed by Kyuubi. Proof that its marked.

No markings on top of the tree Minato landed safe to. Proof it that its marked

If you can't my point is clear.

-Him saying that Minato lives up to the name Yellow Flash (When he saved Naruto) doesn't change how Minato got the name to begin with. Though it's always nice seeing people try to deny manga fact. Amusing.

I could care less about how he got his name recognition . This manga scan proves his Shishuin goes along his moniker just like saving his wife to which I am waiting for proof using FTG in those point of location. He can have yellow flash due to FTG being being announced as the fastest man, we can consider his Shisuin too just like Obito did.

Your telling Obito is wrong and I am telling you Obito, Yamato, Tsunade, and Kakashi are right Lol.

These are manga facts that he uses both shishin and FTG that makes him well known as the fastest man. Along with characters stating similarity of this speed. Manga facts.

Whoever said that Madara is faster than Tobirama?

Nobody that and that wasnt the point.

You made a statement of how Madara blitzing SM Naruto makes his body flicker superior to V1 Raiton. Base on the fact that Tobirama is faster then Madara means he is superior to Madara, who you think is between v1 and v2 speed.

Get the picture?

We've seen Minato's Shunshin, two to three times in this manga, and there was no yellow flash. If you believe that it shows this, get me the proof. "For all we know" isn't an argument, though I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Irrelevant at this point since not even the context to where you believe FTG is his only hype of speed, connects a point here. Its a title, nothing more.

Thus he gets his moniker because of his speed, and the DB already tells us how he got said moniker, because of Hiraishin.

But for you to say that is also discredit manga panels of his Shishin being used and stated too Lol.

Already explained why your parallels don't work. Continuing to repeat a defeated point isn't going to make this argument any easier on you.

Actually parallels does work because it supports the manga to determine and rationalize a character strength and power to what we haven't seen yet. Just you arguing for the sake of it.

Nope. They are exactly the same. You are using a parallel to try and prove equality, when no parallel proves equality, ever.

"Naruto moves just like"! Is a statement made many times to determine a feat.

Sasuke parallel inst base on a feat but reminisces of the team work he did with brother. So no terrible logic and terrible reasoning to validate your point.

Being able to deflect 5 Bijuu Dama w/ speed and strength alone>Any of KCM's speed feats. When Naruto gets cloaks, he gets faster. The more advanced his cloak, the stronger his physical stats rise. Better cloak=Better Shunshin. BM Naruto's speed feats>KCM Naruto's speed feats.

Unless you want to try and prove that KCM cloak=BM cloak, you have no argument here. Not to mention getting full access to the full strength and amount of Kurama's Chakra, means his moves become better. Full access to Kurama's unrestricted chakra>>>KCM chakra in both strength and amount.

So either prove that KCM=BM in speed, or drop this nonsense point about parallels proving that Minato=KCM Naruto in speed, cause I can say the same thing I can come to the conclusion Minato=BM Naruto in speed.

Though if you'd actually read the manga instead of posting BS, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Um no being able to deflect a Buijuu doesn't =/= being faster. Thats just nonsense trying and desperate reach, to something that has no support pf explaining speed superiority.

He has only shown to get faster one time and thats when he tamed Kurama and gain access to KCM. So the rest of your statements are being pulled right out of your ass. And then attempt to have me prove a negative. You should know how debating works, as you are reminding me.

Even if I were to believe this BS of interpretation, my point still stands on the point of Hashirama getting tagged. Even if Minato base shisuin is as good as base Naruto. KCM makes his moves just as fast as Naruto power boost Lol. His speed feat surpasses Ay who needed help of Onoki to blitz Madara.

 

[RedRobin]

The moment Hashirama sees Itachi's 3T he wont ever look into Itachi's eye again throughout the battle. Wood clones come out. Tsukiyomi is not relevant.