[VS] Orochimaru vs. Kisame

[Draegod]

No problem bro..I usually can't break it down but I'd like to see his main counters to this.

Water dome? GSB to finish Manda off? Sensing? Clones? 1000 sharks? Absorption?

Wait we're discussing Non Zetsu Oro right? Let's do that first before we move on to Zetsu Oro.



That's because you were wrong in that case...There's no doubt about that considering I showed proof of what should have happened if you were right. Let's no drag something we've dragged before. I don't want to debate 2 good people at a time.

Water Dome:

All snakes can Swim, Hydra is bigger then the Dome, You add the Fact other Giant Snakes will also overwhelm the Dome causing it to implode or Kisame will be a Sitting Duck Surrounded from all angles including under ground. White Snake poison will also be able to fuse With the water allowing an easy insta Win for his Head to get Detached no diff. Non of them will have trouble breathing under water if that is what you thought. lol

GSB:

Easily avoided Under ground no diff first off. Or Summoning Rashomon intercepts it. Or Manda Sheds it's Skin healing from the Outer damage. Same with Oru, Underground, Summoning, Oral rebirth etc etc. Too many counters to that Jutsu it isn't even funny. Did you and the others think Manda would just stay still and let Kisame use anything on him? Oru and manda are not stupid you know.

Sensing:

Ok, what is that suppose to do when from all angles and onslaught of snakes are literally every where?

Clones:

Weak water clones? Oru has better Shadow clones to match!

1000 sharks:

10000 Snakes with Kusanagi head first! If a Snake with Kusanagi pointing from it's mouth is chakraing at a Shark, using common sense who would get hurt first? Ex: Im running at you with a 5 Meter long Spear and you are running towards me with your fist..

Absorption:

What would he be absorbing? Snakes over power him no diff no discussion. Hydra easily Ripps him apart with ZERO resistance! What is there To absorb? There is no Leaking or showing Chakra to absorb, so Why is that even a factor?

Anything else that is actually worth countering seriously? lol

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Lmao, apparently Orochimaru can teleport underground while he's underwater and summon the very easily avoidable Rashōmon gates w/o touching the ground.

Edit: Also, I guess Orochimaru also DOESN'T use CHAKRA to perform TECHNIQUES like 8 BRANCHES!!! Damn... #NewsToMe

 

[Sin of Wrath]

Water Dome:

All snakes can Swim, Hydra is bigger then the Dome, You add the Fact other Giant Snakes will also overwhelm the Dome causing it to implode or Kisame will be a Sitting Duck Surrounded from all angles including under ground. White Snake poison will also be able to fuse With the water allowing an easy insta Win for his Head to get Detached no diff. Non of them will have trouble breathing under water if that is what you thought. lol

GSB:

Easily avoided Under ground no diff first off. Or Summoning Rashomon intercepts it. Or Manda Sheds it's Skin healing from the Outer damage. Same with Oru, Underground, Summoning, Oral rebirth etc etc. Too many counters to that Jutsu it isn't even funny. Did you and the others think Manda would just stay still and let Kisame use anything on him? Oru and manda are not stupid you know.

Sensing:

Ok, what is that suppose to do when from all angles and onslaught of snakes are literally every where?

Clones:

Weak water clones? Oru has better Shadow clones to match!

1000 sharks:

10000 Snakes with Kusanagi head first! If a Snake with Kusanagi pointing from it's mouth is chakraing at a Shark, using common sense who would get hurt first? Ex: Im running at you with a 5 Meter long Spear and you are running towards me with your fist..

Absorption:

What would he be absorbing? Snakes over power him no diff no discussion. Hydra easily Ripps him apart with ZERO resistance! What is there To absorb? There is no Leaking or showing Chakra to absorb, so Why is that even a factor?

Anything else that is actually worth countering seriously? lol

You should logout after that fanfiction.

 

[Haizaki]

Water Dome:

All snakes can Swim, Hydra is bigger then the Dome, You add the Fact other Giant Snakes will also overwhelm the Dome causing it to implode or Kisame will be a Sitting Duck Surrounded from all angles including under ground. White Snake poison will also be able to fuse With the water allowing an easy insta Win for his Head to get Detached no diff. Non of them will have trouble breathing under water if that is what you thought. lol

GSB:

Easily avoided Under ground no diff first off. Or Summoning Rashomon intercepts it. Or Manda Sheds it's Skin healing from the Outer damage. Same with Oru, Underground, Summoning, Oral rebirth etc etc. Too many counters to that Jutsu it isn't even funny. Did you and the others think Manda would just stay still and let Kisame use anything on him? Oru and manda are not stupid you know.

Sensing:

Ok, what is that suppose to do when from all angles and onslaught of snakes are literally every where?

Clones:

Weak water clones? Oru has better Shadow clones to match!

1000 sharks:

10000 Snakes with Kusanagi head first! If a Snake with Kusanagi pointing from it's mouth is chakraing at a Shark, using common sense who would get hurt first? Ex: Im running at you with a 5 Meter long Spear and you are running towards me with your fist..

Absorption:

What would he be absorbing? Snakes over power him no diff no discussion. Hydra easily Ripps him apart with ZERO resistance! What is there To absorb? There is no Leaking or showing Chakra to absorb, so Why is that even a factor?

Anything else that is actually worth countering seriously? lol

Ok I'll respond once I have enough time to do so.

 

[Draegod]

Ok I'll respond once I have enough time to do so.

No rush, you see me and FT chillin taking our time. I just wish I had time to go into detail on oru.

 

[HNIC]

Lmao, apparently Orochimaru can teleport underground while he's underwater and summon the very easily avoidable Rashōmon gates w/o touching the ground.

Edit: Also, I guess Orochimaru also DOESN'T use CHAKRA to perform TECHNIQUES like 8 BRANCHES!!! Damn... #NewsToMe

Might want to brush on Orochimaru abilities. He can merge with the environment, meaning even within Dome, he could swim towards its base and escape. It's actually quite simple.

B branch technique is a transformation, not a Jutsu that requires hand seals. No chakra is needed, as Orochimaru was already nearly drained of chakra when he used it previously

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Might want to brush on Orochimaru abilities. He can merge with the environment, meaning even within Dome, he could swim towards its base and escape. It's actually quite simple.

B branch technique is a transformation, not a Jutsu that requires hand seals. No chakra is needed, as Orochimaru was already nearly drained of chakra when he used it previously

No, not when the water dome follows Kisame wherever he goes. In all probability Kisame is faster than Orochimaru underwater, so he isn't getting away. Also, there are jutsus that don't require hand seals while requiring chakra, I'm pretty sure.

He broke free of Sasuke's Cursed Seal when he used it, how was he nearly drained of chakra?

 

[HNIC]

No, not when the water dome follows Kisame wherever he goes. In all probability Kisame is faster than Orochimaru underwater, so he isn't getting away. Also, there are jutsus that don't require hand seals while requiring chakra, I'm pretty sure.

He broke free of Sasuke's Cursed Seal when he used it, how was he nearly drained of chakra?

No when the Dome is filled with snakes to distract and slow Kisame down. Also, Kisame would need to follow him underground. It's easier said than done.

That Orochimaru was in a weakened state. Even the Orochimaru revived from Anko states he was too weakened to even go after Sasuke's body. The Orochimaru from Sasuke was the original, who still needed a new host.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

No when the Dome is filled with snakes to distract and slow Kisame down. Also, Kisame would need to follow him underground. It's easier said than done.

That Orochimaru was in a weakened state. Even the Orochimaru revived from Anko states he was too weakened to even go after Sasuke's body. The Orochimaru from Sasuke was the original, who still needed a new host.

Kisame will have sharks (whether they are summoned or created from the water) dealing with the snakes. He can also create mizu bunshins to deal with them as well. Also, Kisame, like I said before, is very fast underwater and can outmaneuver and outswim any snake, or hell, even plow through them.

Ok, but we don't know how weakened he was, and he can still get drained of chakra, and my stance on Giant Shark Bullet dealing with the Hydra does not change.

 

[HNIC]

Kisame will have sharks (whether they are summoned or created from the water) dealing with the snakes. He can also create mizu bunshins to deal with them as well. Also, Kisame, like I said before, is very fast underwater and can outmaneuver and outswim any snake, or hell, even plow through them.

Ok, but we don't know how weakened he was, and he can still get drained of chakra, and my stance on Giant Shark Bullet dealing with the Hydra does not change.

Those sharks were destroyed by Gai's chakra/energy release, they stand no chance against Manda and others. Large snakes would still full the Dome, hindering their movements. If Orochimaru fails, a snake could withhold him orally.

Regardless, 8 branch is nothing more than a transformation, similar to his true form, which he used on his death bed. GSB is counter by gates until you can show me iat destructive power

 

[Haizaki]

Water Dome:
All snakes can Swim, Hydra is bigger then the Dome, You add the Fact other Giant Snakes will also overwhelm the Dome causing it to implode or Kisame will be a Sitting Duck Surrounded from all angles including under ground. White Snake poison will also be able to fuse With the water allowing an easy insta Win for his Head to get Detached no diff. Non of them will have trouble breathing under water if that is what you thought. lol

Yeah but Hydra being bigger than the Dome makes him an easy target for Kisame here...His not fast enough to evade GSB which would be used by a small target.

How's the poison going to be passed through If Oro himself isn't cut like we saw in the Manga? And I'm pretty sure Sasuke was still alright after a while seeing as he put Kabuto in a Genjutsu as well as Oro and even reversed his technique.

GSB:

Easily avoided Under ground no diff first off. Or Summoning Rashomon intercepts it. Or Manda Sheds it's Skin healing from the Outer damage. Same with Oru, Underground, Summoning, Oral rebirth etc etc. Too many counters to that Jutsu it isn't even funny. Did you and the others think Manda would just stay still and let Kisame use anything on him? Oru and manda are not stupid you know.

By 8 Bracnhes? Nope and there's pretty much no way Oro is going to go underground and evade it from a close distance. Summoning Rashomon won't cut as well given the distance and time ...Not to mention the fact that they'll be in a flooded environment making underground tactics and the coming up of Rashomon slower as the water pretty much slows it. It also takes a massive amount of chakra to summon just one Gate let alone 3 as stated. That would completely take as lot from Oro.

Manda gets his chakras absorbed as well as he becomes weakened..He's literally put down by this technique. One doesn't have to stay still, Kisame can use diversionary tactics like like clones/Sharks to distract Manda.

How's Oral rebirth even helping when the technique pretty much sucks him in? Oral rebirth is pretty much doing nothing since his chakra gets absorbed or rather he's swallowed in like Afternoon tiger was and only ends up coming out to still be in GSB if it doesn't explode.

Sensing:

Ok, what is that suppose to do when from all angles and onslaught of snakes are literally every where?

Just to show no underground techniques wouldn't surprise him.

Clones:

Weak water clones? Oru has better Shadow clones to match!

In terms of feat, 30 percent Kisame's clones>>>Oro's when in comes to reaction. As well as the fact that Kisame has a large chakra pool(More than Oro and the entire Akatsuki)..Kisame overpowers Oro in this field. Not to mention the fact that Kisame can clone Samehada with his clones..Oro's clones aren't winning.

1000 sharks:

10000 Snakes with Kusanagi head first! If a Snake with Kusanagi pointing from it's mouth is chakraing at a Shark, using common sense who would get hurt first? Ex: Im running at you with a 5 Meter long Spear and you are running towards me with your fist..

You have a point here to be honest but they die in the crossfire of Kisame's large range attacks if a single wave of KN4's hand could completely obliterate them.

Absorption:

What would he be absorbing? Snakes over power him no diff no discussion. Hydra easily Ripps him apart with ZERO resistance! What is there To absorb? There is no Leaking or showing Chakra to absorb, so Why is that even a factor?

Was referring to Orochimaru himself and he'll get his Chakra absorbed if he makes contact. Hydra easily gets destroyed since it's a bigger target for Kisame's attacks.

Like Someone said earlier on, Orochimaru uses a massive amount of chakra/ power to use Hydra so the likes of mixing all these powerful techniques won't even be happening:

Spoiler

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The emphasis on this pretty much notes that he can't have other justus active while using this technique..There's really nothing that suggest he can do so. Not to mention the massive amount of chakra that this as well as others take.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Those sharks were destroyed by Gai's chakra/energy release, they stand no chance against Manda and others. Large snakes would still full the Dome, hindering their movements. If Orochimaru fails, a snake could withhold him orally.

Regardless, 8 branch is nothing more than a transformation, similar to his true form, which he used on his death bed. GSB is counter by gates until you can show me iat destructive power

Those sharks were destroyed by Morning Peacock and Daytime Tiger, both moves that would destroy the snakes as well. That isn't a very good comparison to make. The sharks would be superior in number and have the advantage of being underwater, so the snakes face an uphill battle, and you still haven't acounted for Kisame's mizu bunshins, who would make things a lot worse for the snakes.

- Orochimaru can't summon the Rashōmon gates without being in contact with some sort of surface. They can't be used.
- Even if they could be used, Daikōdan isn't strictly a linear attack; it's just a giant shark wih chakra absorption capabilities. It'll swim around it. Furthermore, I doubt the gates would stand upright in an underwater environment. They need some sort of surface for support, which is part of the reason why they can't be summoned in this environment anyway.
- The more chakra it absorbs, the stronger it grows, so it doesn't need to be destructive, it just needs to bite off the snakes' heads. Also, it wrestled with Daytime Tiger for several seconds before being overwhelmed, so it's a pretty strong attack before it even absorbs chakra.

 

[HNIC]

Those sharks were destroyed by Morning Peacock and Daytime Tiger, both moves that would destroy the snakes as well. That isn't a very good comparison to make. The sharks would be superior in number and have the advantage of being underwater, so the snakes face an uphill battle, and you still haven't acounted for Kisame's mizu bunshins, who would make things a lot worse for the snakes.

- Orochimaru can't summon the Rashōmon gates without being in contact with some sort of surface. They can't be used.
- Even if they could be used, Daikōdan isn't strictly a linear attack; it's just a giant shark wih chakra absorption capabilities. It'll swim around it. Furthermore, I doubt the gates would stand upright in an underwater environment. They need some sort of surface for support, which is part of the reason why they can't be summoned in this environment anyway.
- The more chakra it absorbs, the stronger it grows, so it doesn't need to be destructive, it just needs to bite off the snakes' heads. Also, it wrestled with Daytime Tiger for several seconds before being overwhelmed, so it's a pretty strong attack before it even absorbs chakra.

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The Sharks and Kisame's entire technique failed simply by the release of 6th gate. Now, take into consideration of previous times we've witnessed the release of gates, 1-7 and the effect or debris the resulted in the aftermath. Done? Ok, well that force wasn't of any great significance. In fact, it seems inferior to Orochinaru's futuon Jutsu he used against team 7. With that said, the snakes easily destroy them, Orochimaru counters a portion himself.

We haven't even taken into account the poison that can be released. Also, you're making the assumption Orochimaru would be trapped in water style prison. Those caught previously had the distraction of others to juggle with. So, you'll have to play things on how this would even occur.

Which Jutsu?

When wouldn't he be able to have a suffice to perform the Jutsu? On top of a lake? Incorrect, once focusing chakra I to the hands, similar to feet, it's a solid surface. We've seen users summon on lakes before.

GSB isn't linear? Proof? Also, inside Dome, considering GSB size and Gates size, where would it swim to avoid contact?!? There's the base of the Done, there's an available surface to summon them or simply summon a small snake and use it as a surface.

What chakra is it absorbing from Gates?

 

[HNIC]

General information:

The reason why Orochimaru clones are superior than Kisame's in standard combat is the Jutsu at his disposal. Kisame's techniques reply on drowning his opponent, nothing really forcing them to disperse. On the other hand, Orochimaru has futon Jutsu, that can be used offensively and defensively. Hence preventing close combat, approach, etc.

@ people saying 8 branch consumes chakra, that's incorrect. That scan posted stated Orochimaru used his last ounce of power, taking into consideration his condition prior to being absorbed by Sasuke, he was weakened. It's a transformation, similar to his true form.

 

[Haizaki]

So the category is Ninjutsu but it doesn't consune chakra...Dead Lord.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

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The Sharks and Kisame's entire technique failed simply by the release of 6th gate. Now, take into consideration of previous times we've witnessed the release of gates, 1-7 and the effect or debris the resulted in the aftermath. Done? Ok, well that force wasn't of any great significance. In fact, it seems inferior to Orochinaru's futuon Jutsu he used against team 7. With that said, the snakes easily destroy them, Orochimaru counters a portion himself.

We haven't even taken into account the poison that can be released. Also, you're making the assumption Orochimaru would be trapped in water style prison. Those caught previously had the distraction of others to juggle with. So, you'll have to play things on how this would even occur.

Which Jutsu?

When wouldn't he be able to have a suffice to perform the Jutsu? On top of a lake? Incorrect, once focusing chakra I to the hands, similar to feet, it's a solid surface. We've seen users summon on lakes before.

GSB isn't linear? Proof? Also, inside Dome, considering GSB size and Gates size, where would it swim to avoid contact?!? There's the base of the Done, there's an available surface to summon them or simply summon a small snake and use it as a surface.

What chakra is it absorbing from Gates?

...That was 30% Kisame using Five Feeding Sharks (a far inferior version of 1,000 sharks). And again, using Guy's gated release and his gated taijutsu techniques as a comparison to explain how Orochimaru would counter a far, far greater amount of sharks doesn't make sense. I won't repeat myself again.

Uh, yeah, in all probability, Orochimaru will end up getting caught inside the dome considering Kisame can spit out the water necessary to create and form it within seconds.

I don't see how poison is affecting sharks created out of water.

Yeah, water can be used as a surface if you focus chakra on your feet. Several problems with this point, though.
1. Orochimaru won't be standing on water, he'll be underwater
2. Rashoumon gates can't be summoned on or underwater, they'd have no support with which to stand on, and would fall.

...I't's a giant shark. It can swim around. It doesn't have to swim in a straight line.

Kisame can make the dome wider and larger by using Daibaksui Shouha inside of the dome.

You haven't said anything that leads me to believe that the gates can be used on or underwater. So, I just won't so anything further on that untill you do. And if you manage to do so, I already stated how Daikoudan can get around it.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

So the category is Ninjutsu but it doesn't consune chakra...Dead Lord.

Lol, right. I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself over and over without having seen a counter.

 

[HNIC]

You misunderstand yet again. Unless you can compare the durability between 30% sharks or 100% sharks (lol) your point is mute. The fact is, Gai didn't use a technique at the moment, just a simple release of chakra!! Underwater is seemed more power, which is why I advised you to recall other occasions in which gates were released. IN THAT COMPARSION, the release of gates was less than or equal to Orochimari's wind release Jutsu.

Sppitting a lake =/ Dome. Again, what's to allow Ksiame to perform this successfully rather than just throwing out what's he's capable of.

Again, you're setting up situation beneficial to your argument. This random use of dome lol.
Gates emerge from underneath the ground, what supper do they need?!? Are you aware of their height, width, etc? Lol can't be summoned underwater due to lack of support?!? What makes you believe such a ridiculous claim. Also, the gates towers over dome, a good portion would Hover over the dome.

What's preventing Orochimaru from smoning at the base of Dome? Even with filled with snakes or Orochimaru entering a snake mouth to travel towards base or underground??

You haven't debunked anything lol

 

[HNIC]

So the category is Ninjutsu but it doesn't consune chakra...Dead Lord.

You stayed it consumes a massive amount of chakra, idk where you got that from your post. Completely misinterpreted that scan lol

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

You misunderstand yet again. Unless you can compare the durability between 30% sharks or 100% sharks (lol) your point is mute. The fact is, Gai didn't use a technique at the moment, just a simple release of chakra!! Underwater is seemed more power, which is why I advised you to recall other occasions in which gates were released. IN THAT COMPARSION, the release of gates was less than or equal to Orochimari's wind release Jutsu.

Sppitting a lake =/ Dome. Again, what's to allow Ksiame to perform this successfully rather than just throwing out what's he's capable of.

Again, you're setting up situation beneficial to your argument. This random use of dome lol.
Gates emerge from underneath the ground, what supper do they need?!? Are you aware of their height, width, etc? Lol can't be summoned underwater due to lack of support?!? What makes you believe such a ridiculous claim. Also, the gates towers over dome, a good portion would Hover over the dome.

What's preventing Orochimaru from smoning at the base of Dome? Even with filled with snakes or Orochimaru entering a snake mouth to travel towards base or underground??

You haven't debunked anything lol

...Please read the manga.

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It'd be wishful thinking to believe that:
1. Orochimaru can outswim Kisame to the base of the dome.
2. That the rashoumon gates are even a factor in this match when they can't even reach half of the height of the water dome.

The rest of this post is rather nonsensical, so I just won't even bother.

If by your next post you can't

1. Provide an effective and legitimate counter to Daikoudan and 1,000+ sharks, both summoned and created from water
2. Explain how the rashoumon gates are useful in this matchup
3. Explain how Orochimaru doesn't just drown after a while
4. Explain why and how Orochimaru isn't using a lot of strength and chakra to use and maintain the Hydra

...then I won't respond. I've already outlined why and how I think Kisame wins this matchup, and how he can counter everything in Orochimaru's arsenal. All you're doing is trying to give me the run around. I'm tired of repeating myself.