[Discussion] PSA: Catching logia off guard does not make them tangible.

[ultraChalk]

This popular scan:

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Is used veeerrry often for reason to believe that if Logia are caught off guard, their intangibility property is thrown out of whack somehow and they become touchable. I'm just clearing the air that this was just for comic relief... they're intangible regardless. It's the exact same thing as Nami hitting Luffy and giving him a knot on his head. It just doesn't happen.

Back in the War of the Best, Smoker was

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and behind his back from the same angle Luffy came at him in the above scan, he reflexively went intangible.

And even earlier then that way back in Skypiea, Enel

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during his 'fight' with the Kimi guy and

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I've been meaning to make this thread for a long long time because a lot of people have used this rebuttal in debates concerning logias against non haki users. Maybe there was another one made but just got lost in the sauce, so yeah.

Next time you see somebody use this as an argument in any thread, link them to this thread and tell them KingSmoke taught'cha better than that

 

[LastGREATEST]

Plotholes.......

 

[Hexuze]

Yeah agreed. I haven't seen anyone state otherwise though. I lol'd what Ace said to Smoker... he told him to chill.

 

[ultraChalk]

Plotholes.......

I'm going to assume you're being serious and hope you aren't trolling.

No. This is not a plothole. All the proof points to it from the first scenario, Luffy rushing in for food in the middle of an almost-fight, and the silly expression Smoker and Ace have on their face.

In a much more serious situation, the War, and in the heat of a battle, this has been proven wrong. It's basically my 2 against this one.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Actually, it just means that in between Alabasta and Marineford, Smoker mastered more of his fruit to the point that he could become intangible by reflex. All it means is that Enel has the ability to transform by reflex because of how long he's had his fruit and the mastery he has.

 

[LastGREATEST]

I'm going to assume you're being serious and hope you aren't trolling.

No. This is not a plothole. All the proof points to it from the first scenario, Luffy rushing in for food in the middle of an almost-fight, and the silly expression Smoker and Ace have on their face.

In a much more serious situation, the War, and in the heat of a battle, this has been proven wrong. It's basically my 2 against this one.

Sorry I meant the first time it was for comedic effect

 

[BrillyMac]

Actually, it just means that in between Alabasta and Marineford, Smoker mastered more of his fruit to the point that he could become intangible by reflex. All it means is that Enel has the ability to transform by reflex because of how long he's had his fruit and the mastery he has.

Smart dude

 

[Kai NB]

Actually, it just means that in between Alabasta and Marineford, Smoker mastered more of his fruit to the point that he could become intangible by reflex. All it means is that Enel has the ability to transform by reflex because of how long he's had his fruit and the mastery he has.

Thread is over now

 

[ultraChalk]

Actually, it just means that in between Alabasta and Marineford, Smoker mastered more of his fruit to the point that he could become intangible by reflex. All it means is that Enel has the ability to transform by reflex because of how long he's had his fruit and the mastery he has.

Illogical. First of all, nothing suggests Enel has had his fruit longer than Smoker. Second, Smoker is one of the most DF reliant user of all Logia, next to Enel. He would've already had that down. And it's foolish to think that Logia users need to train in order to activate the actual logia effect of intangibility. Are you serious?

Luffy instantly became invulnerable to blunt attacks when he ate his fruit, if not a couple days later. A little boy.
Khalifa mastered her soap/bubble powers in minutes.
Kaku mastered transformation in minutes.
You can even see from

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Sabo taking shots from in front of, and behind him and bullets going straight through him. So you're telling me, that Sabo, a couple minutes after eating the Mera Mera no Mi, even after saying himself he's not used to it, is more experienced with it than Smoker, a DF reliant fighte who's had his for years?

The evidence is stacked up aginst you bud.

 

[Anduril]

Don't go reading more into nothing. I think it was stated somewhere that Comic scenes should not be used as trivia. Otherwise Nami can use Haki. And Nami >> Luffy and Zoro.

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

Well there was some comedy to the scene but I wldnt say that was a joke only scene.

I don't think logia r passively active as r fruits like luffy's but after many times of turning intangible at will one might do so instinctively after seeing something coming at them by the corner of their eye/peripheral but they might fail to do so if they r focussed on something else so unless u mean logia have 360degree view or r always in their elemental form then Yah u can't catch them off guard.

As for Sabo turning intangible after saying he had some control issues well he might nit have mastered the fruit but he clearly had the gist of it seeing as his first/close to first attempt gave us a hiken very much identical to Ace's.

 

[ultraChalk]

Don't go reading more into nothing. I think it was stated somewhere that Comic scenes should not be used as trivia. Otherwise Nami can use Haki. And Nami >> Luffy and Zoro.

I totally agree it shouldn't be read into, but it irks me when people use this scene as an excuse.

Well there was some comedy to the scene but I wldnt say that was a joke only scene.

I don't think logia r passively active as r fruits like luffy's but after many times of turning intangible at will one might do so instinctively after seeing something coming at them by the corner of their eye/peripheral but they might fail to do so if they r focussed on something else so unless u mean logia have 360degree view or r always in their elemental form then Yah u can't catch them off guard.

As for Sabo turning intangible after saying he had some control issues well he might nit have mastered the fruit but he clearly had the gist of it seeing as his first/close to first attempt gave us a hiken very much identical to Ace's.

I think all Paramecia have different levels of being passively active. This that grant ability through intentional use like Law and Foxxy are one thing, but Luffys total physical makeover is something else entirely. His whole body became rubber and dare I call it a hybrid between Logia and Paramecia, his DF is 'active' 100% of the time.

About Sabo, 2 things about that: the DFs natural function and recreational use of it are 2 separate things. I wouldn't overlap him using skills the same as being naturally intangible. The series so far has also proven that age has a lot to do with the rate of mastery over DF. Luffy when he was little took a long time to master his Pistol Punch, by itself. But Kaku managed to gain control over his Zoan DF, and create attacks with it as well like that windmill kick thing. So Sabos Fire fist can be paralleled to Kaku and his windmill thing too.
2nd, it helps that he had a clear vision of how he what he wanted to do. He had Aces signature attack in his mind and after seeing it however many times he saw it... I'm sure that played a role in it. Also, the page cuts off at the bottom of his attack so we don't know exactly if it had the same shaped fist as accurate as Aces.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Illogical. First of all, nothing suggests Enel has had his fruit longer than Smoker. Second, Smoker is one of the most DF reliant user of all Logia, next to Enel. He would've already had that down. And it's foolish to think that Logia users need to train in order to activate the actual logia effect of intangibility. Are you serious?

Luffy instantly became invulnerable to blunt attacks when he ate his fruit, if not a couple days later. A little boy.
Khalifa mastered her soap/bubble powers in minutes.
Kaku mastered transformation in minutes.
You can even see from

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Sabo taking shots from in front of, and behind him and bullets going straight through him. So you're telling me, that Sabo, a couple minutes after eating the Mera Mera no Mi, even after saying himself he's not used to it, is more experienced with it than Smoker, a DF reliant fighte who's had his for years?

The evidence is stacked up aginst you bud.

I never said Enel had his fruit longer than Smoker, I just said he had his fruit for a long enough time and had enough mastery to transform on reflex. Smoker may have had his fruit longer, he may not have. He simply, at that time, lacked the mastery to transform on reflex. And yes, it does make sense to say a Logia needs to train to control their transformations perfectly. We saw after Sabo ate his fruit, while they were outside, his hand suddenly erupted into flame and he cried out that it scared the crap out of him. New Logias will have some trouble controlling their fruit, but it may be to different degrees. I'm not saying they need to train to achieve Logia intangibility, they just need to train for their bodies to automatically transform.

Luffy instantly became invulnerable to blunt damage because his body doesn't transform between rubber and flesh the way Aokiji does with ice and flesh, or Akainu with magma and flesh. His body is permanently rubber, so it's permanently invulnerable to blunt attacks. That requires nothing on Luffy's part.

Kaku clearly didn't master his fruit "minutes" after eating his fruit. The Strawhats showed up to Enies Lobby hours after Kaku and Khalifa ate their fruits, and Kaku had several instances of trouble controlling his fruit.[

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][

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Law was able to react to bullets coming from behind him as well. What makes you think Sabo can't do the same? Sabo simply heard the gunshots as Law did, or used Observation Haki, allowing him to react to the bullets, as Law did, and transform so they passed through him.

If Logias automatically transformed, why didn't Monet's heart transform when Caesar stabbed it?

 

[TRE MERCER]

Plot hole like how in the hell did Luffy land a hit on Enel when he's a logia anyways? ​

 

[Punk Hazard]

Plot hole like how in the hell did Luffy land a hit on Enel when he's a logia anyways? ​

Here we have someone who just looks at the pictures and reads none of the words.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Here we have someone who just looks at the pictures and reads none of the words.

And here we have some who doesn't know what there talking about. ​

 

[Punk Hazard]

And here we have some who doesn't know what there talking about. ​

Did you even read the parts where it was said that Luffy's DF negates Enel's because of electricity's weakness to rubber?

 

[TRE MERCER]

Did you even read the parts where it was said that Luffy's DF negates Enel's because of electricity's weakness to water?

Good one because he didn't even say that plus that would literally make no sense. ​

 

[Punk Hazard]

Good one because he didn't even say that plus that would literally make no sense. ​

I meant rubber, I was thinking of something else

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Seriously, read the words

 

[TRE MERCER]

I meant rubber, I was thinking of something else

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Seriously, read the words

Still doesn't change the fact that he's a logia and Luffy punches should have flew right through him. Also the Bs Oda pulled with Crocodile was just terrible with Luffy spitting water on his hands to nullify his df it should have had the same effect on Luffy. ​