Toneri vs Rinnegan Madara

[KamuiGodObito]

Manga:intel
restriction:none

 

[Praydara]

Toneri and Madara were said to be equal, I believe, but I think Toneri takes this extremely high diff, solely because he has a number of ways to counteract Madara's jutsu. Given the impressive chakra control we know Toneri has (examining chakra to detect Hyuuga lineage, absorbing chakra into his own, and the ability to control chakra-infused puppets from extreme distances), it can be easily assumed he could break out of Madara's genjutsu. This is especially true because Toneri has shown impressive usage of genjutsu, such as locking Naruto into a genjutsu which projects his memories (at least this is what I'm aware happens, I could be entirely wrong-- feel free to correct me on it).

Madara's elemental ninjutsu are negated by Toneri's Truth Seeking Balls, making them pretty much ineffective. It's the Rinnegan that Toneri really has to look out for, particularly since Madara has shown distinctly impressive usage of it. While it'll be trouble for Toneri, I don't think it's enough to beat him fully. The Rinnegan does negate the vast majority of Toneri's attacks, since it can absorb chakra and nearly all of Toneri's attacks are based on shaping his chakra, but the incredible strength and speed the Tenseigan Chakra Mode grants him, on-par with Naruto's chakra mode, would give him the advantage in taking Madara off-guard.

Of course, Susano'o is a massive problem for Toneri. I'm fairly certain, though, that a chakra-sword powerful enough to slice through the entire moon would be enough to break through Madara's Susano'o. So, I think Toneri takes it extremely high-diff.

 

[KamuiGodObito]

Toneri and Madara were said to be equal, I believe, but I think Toneri takes this extremely high diff, solely because he has a number of ways to counteract Madara's jutsu. Given the impressive chakra control we know Toneri has (examining chakra to detect Hyuuga lineage, absorbing chakra into his own, and the ability to control chakra-infused puppets from extreme distances), it can be easily assumed he could break out of Madara's genjutsu. This is especially true because Toneri has shown impressive usage of genjutsu, such as locking Naruto into a genjutsu which projects his memories (at least this is what I'm aware happens, I could be entirely wrong-- feel free to correct me on it).

Madara's elemental ninjutsu are negated by Toneri's Truth Seeking Balls, making them pretty much ineffective. It's the Rinnegan that Toneri really has to look out for, particularly since Madara has shown distinctly impressive usage of it. While it'll be trouble for Toneri, I don't think it's enough to beat him fully. The Rinnegan does negate the vast majority of Toneri's attacks, since it can absorb chakra and nearly all of Toneri's attacks are based on shaping his chakra, but the incredible strength and speed the Tenseigan Chakra Mode grants him, on-par with Naruto's chakra mode, would give him the advantage in taking Madara off-guard.

Of course, Susano'o is a massive problem for Toneri. I'm fairly certain, though, that a chakra-sword powerful enough to slice through the entire moon would be enough to break through Madara's Susano'o. So, I think Toneri takes it extremely high-diff.

I agree.

 

[Holy God]

Madara with the Rinnegan? Toneri.
Madara with the Rinnegan and Sage Mode? Madara.

 

[KidGamer65]

Only Madara w/ both eyes and the Juubi stands a chance of winning.

 

[Bronze]

Rinnegan Madara > BSM Naruto & 8 Bijuu & Tobirama & EMS Sasuke > BSM Naruto > Toneri.

 

[AizenSosuke]

Rinnegan Madara > BSM Naruto & 8 Bijuu & Tobirama & EMS Sasuke > BSM Naruto > Toneri.

This^^^^^^

 

[TRE MERCER]

Madara low difficulty...

Toneri may be able to split the moon but with an attack that slow and linear it isn't going to land on Madara. His durability isn't much since he was punch out by Naruto. Juubidama's would one shot the bastard.

Assuming this is Juubi Jin Madara ofc. ​

 

[Praydara]

Madara low difficulty...

Toneri may be able to split the moon but with an attack that slow and linear it isn't going to land on Madara. His durability isn't much since he was punch out by Naruto. Juubidama's would one shot the bastard.

Assuming this is Juubi Jin Madara ofc. ​

I've been assuming it's a living version of Edo Madara, not Juubi Jin Madara. That wouldn't even really be a fight.

 

[Itachi of the Uchiha clan]

Madara stomps.

 

[Alfred Pennyworth]

limbo rips toneri's eyes out gg.

nothing implies he can sense/attack it.

 

[Omar19992010]

That Moon slicing attack just gets absorbed by Preta Path. Pretty much everything in Toneri's Arsenal, Madara absorbs then he proceeds to stomp him in a variety of ways.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Toneri takes this, Tenseigan beam to the earth kills Madara and everyone else along w/ him.

That Moon slicing attack just gets absorbed by Preta Path. Pretty much everything in Toneri's Arsenal, Madara absorbs then he proceeds to stomp him in a variety of ways.

Madara hasn't shown mastery over Preta path, just like how Obito could't use the Rennigan abilities despite having them.

Besides, likewise, Toneri can absorb ninjutsu as well.

limbo rips toneri's eyes out gg.

nothing implies he can sense/attack it.

He has six path chakra and the eye of insight, so yes, he would be able to both sense and see them

Madara low difficulty...

Toneri may be able to split the moon but with an attack that slow and linear it isn't going to land on Madara. His durability isn't much since he was punch out by Naruto. Juubidama's would one shot the bastard.

Assuming this is Juubi Jin Madara ofc. ​

Didn't Madara get one-shotted by Zetsu? Oh shiiii....

No, but seriously. Naruto's attack was infused with Hamura's chakra, which Hinata had given him, and that is the only reason he was damaged to the degree he was. Besides... Juubi Madara was getting owned by BASE Naruto after he got Rikudo chakra, and KEPT getting owned by Naruto when he went into RSM, and yet Toneri was able to fight on par with Naruto, who was in BSM w/Hagoromo & Hamura chakra.

 

[Omar19992010]

Toneri takes this, Tenseigan beam to the earth kills Madara and everyone else along w/ him.



Madara hasn't shown mastery over Preta path, just like how Obito could't use the Rennigan abilities despite having them.

Besides, likewise, Toneri can absorb ninjutsu as well.



He has six path chakra and the eye of insight, so yes, he would be able to both sense and see them

Madara can use Preta Path, he already showed it in his EDO form. Toneri got knocked out by a punch from BSM Naruto. Madara took the 8 Gates head on and was still chilling after it. Let me remind you Madara was taking on both Rinnegan Sasuke and Six Paths Naruto in his Final Form who are each way stronger than BSM Naruto from the Last. ST would interrupt him from swinging his moon slicing attack anyways.

Nothing implies he can even see or sense Limbo. It's the Six Paths Sage Mode and Rinnegan that gives you that ability, Toneri has Tenseigan. Just because somebody has more DC doesn't mean their stronger. Broly could destroy a Galaxy and Cell could destroy a Solar System while Majin Buu could only showed that he could destroy planets. Does that make those two as strong as Majin Buu? Hell No.

 

[Dondaime Hokage Naruto]

Toneri and Madara were said to be equal, I believe, but I think Toneri takes this extremely high diff, solely because he has a number of ways to counteract Madara's jutsu. Given the impressive chakra control we know Toneri has (examining chakra to detect Hyuuga lineage, absorbing chakra into his own, and the ability to control chakra-infused puppets from extreme distances), it can be easily assumed he could break out of Madara's genjutsu. This is especially true because Toneri has shown impressive usage of genjutsu, such as locking Naruto into a genjutsu which projects his memories (at least this is what I'm aware happens, I could be entirely wrong-- feel free to correct me on it).

Madara's elemental ninjutsu are negated by Toneri's Truth Seeking Balls, making them pretty much ineffective. It's the Rinnegan that Toneri really has to look out for, particularly since Madara has shown distinctly impressive usage of it. While it'll be trouble for Toneri, I don't think it's enough to beat him fully. The Rinnegan does negate the vast majority of Toneri's attacks, since it can absorb chakra and nearly all of Toneri's attacks are based on shaping his chakra, but the incredible strength and speed the Tenseigan Chakra Mode grants him, on-par with Naruto's chakra mode, would give him the advantage in taking Madara off-guard.

Of course, Susano'o is a massive problem for Toneri. I'm fairly certain, though, that a chakra-sword powerful enough to slice through the entire moon would be enough to break through Madara's Susano'o. So, I think Toneri takes it extremely high-diff.

Once again...
It has been comfirmed that the Databook doesn't compare Madara and Toneri power. In fact Madara is only mentioned in page 21, where it is said that he stole the Mazo.
Look here at this

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... Down you will find this, posted by Lost Woods Denizen.

Lost Woods Denizen
I have and am currently reading the information from the databook. This is what is said on page 19 for Toneri

Ootsutsuki Toneri: The last survivor of the Otsutsuki clan attempting to fulfill the "one thousand year agreement." The Otsutsuki clan lived on the moon and, for one thousand years, were tasked with looking after the sealed gedou mazou. Of all of the descendants the last survivor is Toneri. He, who was brought up in isolation and darkness, begins his plan to drop the moon on to the earth to fulfill the promise of his ancestors who were thrown into darkness spanning one thousand years. With the purpose of walking the world after humanity's destruction with his wife, he begins to move.

Since his birth his eyeballs have not existed. These are Hanabi's implanted eyes.
The Otsutsuki clan wedding clothes. A turban like cloth is wrapped around his head.
Hanabi's "byakugan" settle. This can be considered a so called "tenseigan chakra mode."

No where does it say that his power can be compared to Madara, on either this page, or on page 21. In fact, the only mention of Madara on page 21 is that he summoned the gedou mazo from the moon. I believe that the information in the naruto wikia is a mixture of that from both this book and perhaps that of interviews. However, for the sake of correcting any misinformation about the databook, that phrase about comparable strength is not written.

At the wikia at Toneri page they removed this and the one who did it wrote: Removed all comparisons to Rinnegan, Madara and the Senjutsu of the Six Paths due to the lack of citations. Grand statements like that are speculation unless there is a source. They didn't have a source...

OT: Madara wins this.

 

[Scryed]

I'll go with Toneri.

Unless this Madara is JJ.

 

[Praydara]

Once again...
It has been comfirmed that the Databook doesn't compare Madara and Toneri power. In fact Madara is only mentioned in page 21, where it is said that he stole the Mazo.
Look here at this

You must be registered for see links

... Down you will find this, posted by Lost Woods Denizen.

Lost Woods Denizen
I have and am currently reading the information from the databook. This is what is said on page 19 for Toneri

Ootsutsuki Toneri: The last survivor of the Otsutsuki clan attempting to fulfill the "one thousand year agreement." The Otsutsuki clan lived on the moon and, for one thousand years, were tasked with looking after the sealed gedou mazou. Of all of the descendants the last survivor is Toneri. He, who was brought up in isolation and darkness, begins his plan to drop the moon on to the earth to fulfill the promise of his ancestors who were thrown into darkness spanning one thousand years. With the purpose of walking the world after humanity's destruction with his wife, he begins to move.

Since his birth his eyeballs have not existed. These are Hanabi's implanted eyes.
The Otsutsuki clan wedding clothes. A turban like cloth is wrapped around his head.
Hanabi's "byakugan" settle. This can be considered a so called "tenseigan chakra mode."

No where does it say that his power can be compared to Madara, on either this page, or on page 21. In fact, the only mention of Madara on page 21 is that he summoned the gedou mazo from the moon. I believe that the information in the naruto wikia is a mixture of that from both this book and perhaps that of interviews. However, for the sake of correcting any misinformation about the databook, that phrase about comparable strength is not written.

At the wikia at Toneri page they removed this and the one who did it wrote: Removed all comparisons to Rinnegan, Madara and the Senjutsu of the Six Paths due to the lack of citations. Grand statements like that are speculation unless there is a source. They didn't have a source...

OT: Madara wins this.

Oh, alright, I wasn't aware that had been corrected. Still, that doesn't really matter to the meat of my post, even if it is nice to know that the comparison to Madara wasn't made in the first place.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Madara can use Preta Path, he already showed it in his EDO form. Toneri got knocked out by a punch from BSM Naruto. Madara took the 8 Gates head on and was still chilling after it. Let me remind you Madara was taking on both Rinnegan Sasuke and Six Paths Naruto in his Final Form who are each way stronger than BSM Naruto from the Last. ST would interrupt him from swinging his moon slicing attack anyways.

Nothing implies he can even see or sense Limbo. It's the Six Paths Sage Mode and Rinnegan that gives you that ability, Toneri has Tenseigan. Just because somebody has more DC doesn't mean their stronger. Broly could destroy a Galaxy and Cell could destroy a Solar System while Majin Buu could only showed that he could destroy planets. Does that make those two as strong as Majin Buu? Hell No.

I'll give you the point on Preta path, but like I already said, Toneri also can absorb, so what then?

Please stop Lol How many more times will I have to copy paste this smh. That was not BSM Naruto, as he was shown flying, meaning he had Hagoromo's chkara and his eyes had Kyuubi-sage appearance, meaning he was in BSM w/ Hagoromo & Hamura chakra [the latter which he got from Hinata]. Not to mention the two years of extra experience and training.

He took the gates head on, true, but he was not chilling from it, instead he was coughing up blood and lost a large chunk of his body.

Madara wasn't taking on Naruto and Sasuke Lol More like getting a one-sided smack down from them. Did he even manage to land any meaningful blow or even bring out a single drop of blood from them? Probably not.

Shinra Tensei, huh? That would depend on the distance Toneri used it form, which could EASILY be done form a distance far enough to ignore Shinra Tensei, which we haven't even seen Madara do, mind you.

Nope, wrong again. No where did it say the Rikudo mode was how Naruto was able to sense the Limbo, it was only ever implied he was able to do so due to the Six path chakra

Spoiler

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Toneri has Six path chakra, so he should be able to sense it the same way Naruto did. He also has Tenseigan chakra and the Eye of Insight, said to be superior to the Sharingan and Rennigan, meaning if the Rennigan can see it, so would the Byakugan/Tenseigan. Moreover, with Limbo being a jutsu, it would obviously use chakra, which the Byakugan would be able to pick up on.

I don't watch DBZ, so I don't get the comparsion.

In any case, you can argue these points, and I do acknowledge I may be wrong, but there is no way Madara would survive the Tenseigan Weapon's destructive power. That alone allows Toneri to neg diff Madara and the rest of the planet

 

[RustledJimmies]

I'll go with Madara for now.

Madara can use Preta Path, he already showed it in his EDO form. Toneri got knocked out by a punch from BSM Naruto. Madara took the 8 Gates head on and was still chilling after it. Let me remind you Madara was taking on both Rinnegan Sasuke and Six Paths Naruto in his Final Form who are each way stronger than BSM Naruto from the Last. ST would interrupt him from swinging his moon slicing attack anyways.

Nothing implies he can even see or sense Limbo. It's the Six Paths Sage Mode and Rinnegan that gives you that ability, Toneri has Tenseigan. Just because somebody has more DC doesn't mean their stronger. Broly could destroy a Galaxy and Cell could destroy a Solar System while Majin Buu could only showed that he could destroy planets. Does that make those two as strong as Majin Buu? Hell No.

Maybe because Cell's statement about him being able to destroy the Solar System was hyperbole, I don't know about Broly though, I watched the movies a long time ago. But both Buu and Cell are star level by feats, your comparison is invalid, but I see your point.

I'll give you the point on Preta path, but like I already said, Toneri also can absorb, so what then?

Please stop Lol How many more times will I have to copy paste this smh. That was not BSM Naruto, as he was shown flying, meaning he had Hagoromo's chkara and his eyes had Kyuubi-sage appearance, meaning he was in BSM w/ Hagoromo & Hamura chakra [the latter which he got from Hinata]. Not to mention the two years of extra experience and training.

He took the gates head on, true, but he was not chilling from it, instead he was coughing up blood and lost a large chunk of his body.

Madara wasn't taking on Naruto and Sasuke Lol More like getting a one-sided smack down from them. Did he even manage to land any meaningful blow or even bring out a single drop of blood from them? Probably not.

Shinra Tensei, huh? That would depend on the distance Toneri used it form, which could EASILY be done form a distance far enough to ignore Shinra Tensei, which we haven't even seen Madara do, mind you.

Nope, wrong again. No where did it say the Rikudo mode was how Naruto was able to sense the Limbo, it was only ever implied he was able to do so due to the Six path chakra

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Toneri has Six path chakra, so he should be able to sense it the same way Naruto did. He also has Tenseigan chakra and the Eye of Insight, said to be superior to the Sharingan and Rennigan, meaning if the Rennigan can see it, so would the Byakugan/Tenseigan. Moreover, with Limbo being a jutsu, it would obviously use chakra, which the Byakugan would be able to pick up on.

I don't watch DBZ, so I don't get the comparsion.

In any case, you can argue these points, and I do acknowledge I may be wrong, but there is no way Madara would survive the Tenseigan Weapon's destructive power. That alone allows Toneri to neg diff Madara and the rest of the planet

Lol, since when slicing the moon in half = planet busting ?

 

[Omar19992010]

I'll give you the point on Preta path, but like I already said, Toneri also can absorb, so what then?

Please stop Lol How many more times will I have to copy paste this smh. That was not BSM Naruto, as he was shown flying, meaning he had Hagoromo's chkara and his eyes had Kyuubi-sage appearance, meaning he was in BSM w/ Hagoromo & Hamura chakra [the latter which he got from Hinata]. Not to mention the two years of extra experience and training.

He took the gates head on, true, but he was not chilling from it, instead he was coughing up blood and lost a large chunk of his body.

Madara wasn't taking on Naruto and Sasuke Lol More like getting a one-sided smack down from them. Did he even manage to land any meaningful blow or even bring out a single drop of blood from them? Probably not.

Shinra Tensei, huh? That would depend on the distance Toneri used it form, which could EASILY be done form a distance far enough to ignore Shinra Tensei, which we haven't even seen Madara do, mind you.

Nope, wrong again. No where did it say the Rikudo mode was how Naruto was able to sense the Limbo, it was only ever implied he was able to do so due to the Six path chakra

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Toneri has Six path chakra, so he should be able to sense it the same way Naruto did. He also has Tenseigan chakra and the Eye of Insight, said to be superior to the Sharingan and Rennigan, meaning if the Rennigan can see it, so would the Byakugan/Tenseigan. Moreover, with Limbo being a jutsu, it would obviously use chakra, which the Byakugan would be able to pick up on.

I don't watch DBZ, so I don't get the comparsion.

In any case, you can argue these points, and I do acknowledge I may be wrong, but there is no way Madara would survive the Tenseigan Weapon's destructive power. That alone allows Toneri to neg diff Madara and the rest of the planet

So you're saying to me Naruto who beat Toneri who didn't even use his Kyuubi Avatar is stronger than RM Naruto?

Hell No. BSM Naruto is nowhere near as strog as RM Naruto. He didn't even get Hamura's Chakra until after he knocked out Toneri

Madara when he got his second Rinnegan was actually holding his own against both Naruto and Sasuke. Before Kaguya came he actually had them backed into a corner. So what you said there is completely irrelevant. Preta Path absorbs the Beam. Madara keeps him busy with Clones while he preps a Juubi TBB to eradicate Toneri or he just Chops him down with PS. Plus if Madara lays a hand on him, Ningendo GG.

Taking the Eight Gates Heads on>>>Naruto's Punch.

You can only sense Limbo with Six Paths Sage Mode, See it with a Rinnegan and Hurt it with Six Paths Chakra. Toneri doesn't have Six Paths Sage mode and Rinnegan which means he can't see it or sense it.

If you didn't forget Madara is immortal and the only way to defeat him is to seal him away with the Moon and Sun seals or Rip the Bijuu out of him and Toneri can do none.