SM Hashirama vs Edo Madara.

[Kagustuchi]

It's possible that they don't contradict each other, but Madara's statement seems to imply that there is a noticeable difference between them at full power and them as Edo....but meh.

In that case, Tobirama's statement should take priority. He's much more credible as he was the creator of Edo Tensei as well as the one that was actually revived in that set of Edo Tensei.

But again, it's neither here nor there. Small or the large the gap doesn't change anything.

 

[KidGamer65]

In that case, Tobirama's statement should take priority. He's much more credible as he was the creator of Edo Tensei as well as the one tat was actually revived in that set of Edo Tensei.

But again, it's neither here nor there. Small or the large the gap doesn't change anything.

Yup, that's along the lines of what I'm thinking now. Tobirama would know his own power better than someone else.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Yup, that's along the lines of what I'm thinking now. Tobirama would know his own power better than someone else.

Do you think Kabuto's set of Edos were weaker than their mortal forms?

 

[KidGamer65]

Do you think Kabuto's set of Edos were weaker than their mortal forms?

Nah, I don't...except Madara of course, due to the uniqueness of his situation, fake Rinnegan and all that jazz.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Yup, that's along the lines of what I'm thinking now. Tobirama would know his own power better than someone else.

Tobirama later contradicted that, he said he was "in a sorry state" when he tried to create Kage bushin. Perhaps actually being in a combat situation allowed him wake up and smell the roses.

Then there's the two statements from Madara "once hailed as the fastest shinobi of all time, look at your pitiful self now" and of course "there's a reason you brothers can't bring out your full strength.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

It's possible that they don't contradict each other, but Madara's statement seems to imply that there is a noticeable difference between them at full power and them as Edo Tensei....but meh.



Yeah. Pretty much.



Even with the Gates, his strongest technique is Shinsuusenju. That was definitely peak Hashirama. Madara has the ability to stalemate Hashirama at the very least before Shinsuusenju comes out, Hashirama would be pushed to use it actually. Then there's the fact that they don't jump straight to their strongest techs, meaning there will be a scuffle beforehand. That's why it's mid diff.

Yes but Gates just add to the pile. VOTE Hashirama stalemated Madara without Sage mode. There's no Kyuubi in this situation either.

How do you think Madara with the Kyuubi alters the situation? Especially considering madara can seal the Kyuubi in himself.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Canon source sure edo Hashirama beat edo Madara, but that fight mostly off panel and Kishi plot logic in working, the result is Madara is been pinned down by Gate of the great god.

But in the cannon manga cases, I saw and assumed that edo Madara is nerfed while he is fighting edo Hashirama.

We can said author knows well, but we can't escape from believing that author also can put plot restriction in their manga.

Even if edo Hashi using Shinsuusenju against edo Madara in the manga, still Hashi will gain nothing because edo Madara can regenerate after being destroy. Because of that, it's better for him to use Senpo Myojinmon and wood dragon to immobilise/ restrain Madara movement than using destructive force that is Senpo Mokuton Shinsuusenju.

People's here must catch that and keep in their mind, just because edo Hashirama didn't use Buddha, not mean that with Buddha Hashi can overwhelm edo Madara in power. Hashi play smart there because he know Madara is edo.

Even both of them got destroyed by TBB from juubito before that's more powerful than Buddha power and regenerated back after that.

That's mean in fan made or out of manga battle, Edo Madara have a chance to defeat SM Hashirama that is not Edo.

With proper utilisation of Rinnegan power and Mokuton power, Edo Madara can grab a victory although without Kyuubi.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes but Gates just add to the pile. VOTE Hashirama stalemated Madara without Sage mode. There's no Kyuubi in this situation either.

No, he didn't, not full power Madara. When Madara used Iso Susanoo Hashirama was purely on the defensive and had to use Sage Mode, and then came out on top, not by much though since his SS was disabled in the process. His have been shown to be smaller than Perfect Susanoo, so pinning it isn't going to work here.

How do you think Madara with the Kyuubi alters the situation? Especially considering madara can seal the Kyuubi in himself.[/QUOTE]

Tobirama later contradicted that, he said he was "in a sorry state" when he tried to create Kage bushin. Perhaps actually being in a combat situation allowed him wake up and smell the roses.

That's because of the barrier, not because of Edo Tensei.

Then there's the two statements from Madara "once hailed as the fastest shinobi of all time, look at your pitiful self now" and of course "there's a reason you brothers can't bring out your full strength.

True, that's the only statement that's getting me, but Tobirama's takes more priority since Tobirama knows his own power better than Madara does.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

No, he didn't, not full power Madara. When Madara used Iso Susanoo Hashirama was purely on the defensive and had to use Sage Mode, and then came out on top, not by much though since his SS was disabled in the process. His have been shown to be smaller than Perfect Susanoo, so pinning it isn't going to work here.

How do you think Madara with the Kyuubi alters the situation? Especially considering madara can seal the Kyuubi in himself.

True, that's the only statement that's getting me, but Tobirama's takes more priority since Tobirama knows his own power better than Madara does.[/QUOTE]

Iso Susanno is superior to PS, isn't it? I was purely talking about Hashirama minus the Kyuubi - which forced Sage mode out.

At any rate, the Gates have the resilience to hold down PS on its own, and possibly even Iso susanoo. This is by simple scaling

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Hashirama held down a Juubi that was several times stronger than this one. The Juubi is larger than PS:

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(Middle circle Juubi, line on the right Hashirama and Madara)

Then there's Hashirama's Jukai Kouta. That was going to deflect numerous Juubi Dama, magnitudes stronger than this one

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(Ignore the stupid calculations)

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And this was a clone of Edo Hashirama.

The size alone of these (correct me if I'm wrong) weaker Juubi dama dawrf bijuu

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Even being able to redirect these things puts his wood's durability insanely high.

No, the barrier made it obvious he was in a sorry state. He said "only two clones? I'm in a sorry state", not, "Two is the best I can do with this barrier".

And like I said, SS has never been defeated.

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[KidGamer65]

Iso Susanno is superior to PS, isn't it? I was purely talking about Hashirama minus the Kyuubi - which forced Sage mode out.

Oh, then I agree.

At any rate, the Gates have the resilience to hold down PS on its own, and possibly even Iso susanoo. This is by simple scaling

No, they don't. Maybe Iso Susanoo (Susanoo would probably cut the gates apart) but definitely not normal PS, size difference is way too massive.

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Hashirama held down a Juubi that was several times stronger than this one. The Juubi is larger than PS:

The Juubi overall is larger. He pinned it by it's neck, and tails. It's neck and tails individually are NOWHERE near the size of PS, so gates aren't going to work. The second scan only shows how small the gates are in comparison to PS and Mokujin.

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(Middle circle Juubi, line on the right Hashirama and Madara)

Then there's Hashirama's Jukai Kouta. That was going to deflect numerous Juubi Dama, magnitudes stronger than this one

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(Ignore the stupid calculations)

So? Jukai Kotan being able to redirect 4 Bijuu Dama w/ the Shinobi Alliance's help=/=Jukai Kotan being a factor against PS. SS is the strongest Mokuton, Mokujin is the second strongest, and it stalemated PS. Anything else would get obliterated.

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And this was a clone of Edo Hashirama.

Clone's jutsu aren't weaker.

The size alone of these (correct me if I'm wrong) weaker Juubi dama dawrf bijuu

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Even being able to redirect these things puts his wood's durability insanely high.

No, it doesn't. Not only have we seen the durability of his Mokuton (PS cuts through everything not Mokujin or SS as the manga showed at VoTE) being able to redirect something doesn't make you as durable or anywhere near as durable as what you are trying to redirect.

No, the barrier made it obvious he was in a sorry state. He said "only two clones? I'm in a sorry state", not, "Two is the best I can do with this barrier".

And like I said, SS has never been defeated.

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Might as well have been defeated. It lost it's offensive power.