freedom of speech

[legarcon]

So what the goverment of france is saying that you can insult whoever or whatever you want to without any consequences? i by no means aprove the terrorist attack of the extremist who killed those people but also they should have seen it coming from miles away. Every action has a reaction, since they didnt measure their actions the reaction couldnt be predicted either.

I mean the killing of those people was not justifiable niether for france nor for the islam nor by any other religion, but the fact they were killed by extremist doesnt make them "heroes" either, because they disrespected another culture and they were making jokes about what some people consider as the most sacred thing to them.

So some people define freedom of speech as being able to insult anyone or anything without taking into account other people's beliefs and feelings and expect no reaction at all. Then does that mean i can go out to the streets and call the mother of someone a ***** without expecting any reaction from that person? WRONG if i go to the streets and start calling the mother of everyone a ***** then most likely someone eventually will come to face me and will probably try to kick my butt.
In an utopic society maybe we could expect no reation from insulting people but since we are nowhere near to be an utopic society we should be careful with what we say because people might get upset and we might get into trouble, we have to be prudent with what we say if we dont want undesired outcomes like the outcomes of those cartoonist, they didnt measure the consequences of their actions, they were not prudent enough and that's what they got, i'm not defending the terrorist but the cartoonists were playing with fire and they got burned that's what happens when you dont take into account other people's view and feelings into the equation.

I think if we desagree with someone we are capable of saying so without coming to insults or mockery, that's what true
freedom of speech is, insulting people is not freedom of speech that is debauchery, and above all we cannot expect people to behave properly if we dont do it ourselves.

 

[Ōkami]

Voltaire would disagree.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

So what the goverment of france is saying that you can insult whoever or whatever you want to without any consequences? i by no means aprove the terrorist attack of the extremist who killed those people but also they should have seen it coming from miles away. Every action has a reaction, since they didnt measure their actions the reaction couldnt be predicted either.

I mean the killing of those people was not justifiable niether for france nor for the islam nor by any other religion, but the fact they were killed by extremist doesnt make them "heroes" either, because they disrespected another culture and they were making jokes about what some people consider as the most sacred thing to them.

So some people define freedom of speech as being able to insult anyone or anything without taking into account other people's beliefs and feelings and expect no reaction at all. Then does that mean i can go out to the streets and call the mother of someone a ***** without expecting any reaction from that person? WRONG if i go to the streets and start calling the mother of everyone a ***** then most likely someone eventually will come to face me and will probably try to kick my butt.
In an utopic society maybe we could expect no reation from insulting people but since we are nowhere near to be an utopic society we should be careful with what we say because people might get upset and we might get into trouble, we have to be prudent with what we say if we dont want undesired outcomes like the outcomes of those cartoonist, they didnt measure the consequences of their actions, they were not prudent enough and that's what they got, i'm not defending the terrorist but the cartoonists were playing with fire and they got burned that's what happens when you dont take into account other people's view and feelings into the equation.

I think if we desagree with someone we are capable of saying so without coming to insults or mockery, that's what true
freedom of speech is, insulting people is not freedom of speech that is debauchery, and above all we cannot expect people to behave properly if we dont do it ourselves.

Wrong. Freedom of speech should encompass all speech. Doesn't matter if you personally don't like what is said. Freedom of speech means that you can say whatever you want. No one has to listen to it. That magazine mocked every political figure and religion. Guess which one reacted by killing the people?

 

[V h o]

Lel like all things in this world, everything has a reaction. Saying x thing and expecting nothing to happen in response is sort of silly. Anyway freedom of speech has its limits, this may not mean you are prohibited from saying something, but that there would be consequences for your expression, either legally or illegally (possibly the form of a terrorist attack). The whole norm mentality is eluding folks and people's actions are really testing how much the law has to specify what people can and can not do.

 

[legarcon]

Voltaire would disagree.

you cannot judge the acts of the present by the moral of the past and viceversa

Wrong. Freedom of speech should encompass all speech. Doesn't matter if you personally don't like what is said. Freedom of speech means that you can say whatever you want. No one has to listen to it. That magazine mocked every political figure and religion. Guess which one reacted by killing the people?

i guess we have a different view on what true freedom of speech is, but anyway my point is they were imprudent with their actions, let's be prudent and everyone is happy, but if you expect people to not react to an insult you must surely think we live in a perfect society because people get upset when you offend them

Lel like all things in this world, everything has a reaction. Saying x thing and expecting nothing to happen in response is sort of silly. Anyway freedom of speech has its limits, this may not mean you can not say something, but that there would be consequences for your expression, either legally or illegally (possibly the form of a terrorist attack). The whole norm mentality is eluding folks and people's actions are really testing how much the law has to specify what people can and can not do.

true you also can state your opinion without disrespecting someone, that´s the right way

Jesus. I am so tired of reading these long threads. Especially when it's late at night.

reading is good especially before going to bed

 

[Cunning Linguist]

i guess we have a different view on what true freedom of speech is, but anyway my point is they were imprudent with their actions, let's be prudent and everyone is happy, but if you expect people to not react to an insult you must surely think we live in a perfect society because people get upset when you offend them

Good. Let them be offended. It's your right to be offended if I say "All Mexicans do is sleep, drink tequila and kidnap and murder people". And it's my right to say it. People are only offended by things that have some truth to them. Like if someone called you a stupid warlock, would you care? No. But if someone drew a picture of Mohammed being a pedophile (he was), Muslims get offended

 

[legarcon]

Good. Let them be offended. It's your right to be offended if I say "All Mexicans do is sleep, drink tequila and kidnap and murder people". And it's my right to say it. People are only offended by things that have some truth to them. Like if someone called you a stupid warlock, would you care? No. But if someone drew a picture of Mohammed being a pedophile (he was), Muslims get offended

let's say you're standing up in front of a gang of people that look like criminals and you call them fools and other names, would you expect those guys not to come to beat you up? i dont think saying to them "it´s your choice to get angry or not" would help at all, anyway as newton said "all actions have a reaction" so we better be prudent don you think?
besides in some other cultures getting married with girls of 13 or 14 years of age is completely normal, you cannot judge a diffenrent culture with the standards of another culture and expect to understand it.

 

[Conspirator.]

Cunning linguist is right. In Australia, the country I live in, a moronic Islamic extremist tried to justify the Paris incident, by saying that "freedom of speech implies freedom of action". This makes no sense, since saying you're going to kill someone by itself isn't going to get you imprisoned most of the time. Quite frankly, if these people hate the Western world's customs so much, every single one of them should be given a one way ticket back to their country of origin, where I'm sure life is so much better for them.

 

[V h o]

true you also can state your opinion without disrespecting someone, that´s the right way

Yeah I believe the norm is that, however I'm not sure if the law specifically says that (shame I'm not positive on this) Lol.

 

[legarcon]

Cunning linguist is right. In Australia, the country I live in, a moronic Islamic extremist tried to justify the Paris incident, by saying that "freedom of speech implies freedom of action". This makes no sense, since saying you're going to kill someone by itself isn't going to get you imprisoned most of the time. Quite frankly, if these people hate the Western world's customs so much, every single one of them should be given a one way ticket back to their country of origin, where I'm sure life is so much better for them.

in an utopic world maybe but in a super imperfect world like this there's no way that will happen, so let's be prudent, besides i didnt justify the actions of the extremist but the cartoonist were no saints either

 

[Cunning Linguist]

let's say you're standing up in front of a gang of people that look like criminals and you call them fools and other names, would you expect those guys not to come to beat you up? i dont think saying to them "it´s your choice to get angry or not" would help at all, anyway as newton said "all actions have a reaction" so we better be prudent don you think?
besides in some other cultures getting married with girls of 13 or 14 years of age is completely normal, you cannot judge a culture with the standards of another culture and expect to understand it.

That would be stupid of course. But you're essentially justifying murder. How about you put the blame with the individuals that are so brainwashed, that they would kill someone over a picture? Seems pretty ****ed to me. I won't allow terrorists to determine what people think or say. They do enough of that in their own countries. And the only cultures that marry girls that young are Central Africa and the Middle East and both of those are shining examples of modernity and forward thinking

Cunning linguist is right. In Australia, the country I live in, a moronic Islamic extremist tried to justify the Paris incident, by saying that "freedom of speech implies freedom of action". This makes no sense, since saying you're going to kill someone by itself isn't going to get you imprisoned most of the time. Quite frankly, if these people hate the Western world's customs so much, every single one of them should be given a one way ticket back to their country of origin, where I'm sure life is so much better for them.

Exactly. And do you know why he's able to say that? He has freedom of speech. But he's too stupid to realize

 

[legarcon]

That would be stupid of course. But you're essentially justifying murder. How about you put the blame with the individuals that are so brainwashed, that they would kill someone over a picture? Seems pretty ****ed to me. I won't allow terrorists to determine what people think or say. They do enough of that in their own countries. And the only cultures that marry girls that young are Central Africa and the Middle East and both of those are shining examples of modernity and forward thinking



Exactly. And do you know why he's able to say that? He has freedom of speech. But he's too stupid to realize

no i'm just saying dont bother people who can kill you, they did bother people who could and got them killed
BTW you're such a mature man calling people names but by any means feel free to keep commenting i will not carry on this conversation with you

 

[Anduril]

"One of the problems with supporting free speech is you often have to defend people that you find outrageous and unpleasant and disgusting."​

 

[Cunning Linguist]

no i'm just saying dont bother people who can kill you, they did bother people who could and got them killed
BTW you're such a mature man calling people names but by any means feel free to keep commenting i will not carry on this conversation with you

Did I offend you? Good. It's such a loss that you won't enlighten me to with your keen insight to the human condition, natural law, and intellectualism.

 

[legarcon]

Did I offend you? Good. It's such a loss that you won't enlighten me to with your keen insight to the human condition, natural law, and intellectualism.

noop, but this conversation is not going anywhere and i dont feed trolls bye

 

[Elodin]

I can make a really really long sentence without any commas fullstops apostrophes or any form of punctuation as well on topic though I
personally believe that freedom of speech would be a part of society I really want to put a fullstop now damn it but I cant anyway
freedom of speech does not exist for example women can now sue you for telling them that theyre pretty or even looking at them im ready for my one piece of punctuation now.


Edit: Before anyone gets butthurt; these are not actually my opinions. I was trolling.

 

[Bronze]

France is Islamophobic. [

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[sasori345]

Iam myself French and live in France, freedom of speech doesn't exist here and never will.

Simple exemple among countless cases :

Dieudonné the famous french humorist who was there at the marche of Paris. A day later he has been arrested for "advocating terrorism" . He'll be judged in the court and risk 7 years in prison.

Why?

Because the humorist dared to say in his facebook that he felt like Charlie Coulibaly "Je me sens Charlie Coulibaly"
Apology of terrorism for "i feel"? France became delusional especially when we review a frontpage of Charlie Hebdo " Merah come back" and no condamnation there.

Spoiler

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Freedom of expression for some, right to shut up to others.

We are indeed an Israeli colony it's official.

 

[VongolaLegacy]

So what the goverment of france is saying that you can insult whoever or whatever you want to without any consequences? i by no means aprove the terrorist attack of the extremist who killed those people but also they should have seen it coming from miles away. Every action has a reaction, since they didnt measure their actions the reaction couldnt be predicted either.

I mean the killing of those people was not justifiable niether for france nor for the islam nor by any other religion, but the fact they were killed by extremist doesnt make them "heroes" either, because they disrespected another culture and they were making jokes about what some people consider as the most sacred thing to them.

So some people define freedom of speech as being able to insult anyone or anything without taking into account other people's beliefs and feelings and expect no reaction at all. Then does that mean i can go out to the streets and call the mother of someone a ***** without expecting any reaction from that person? WRONG if i go to the streets and start calling the mother of everyone a ***** then most likely someone eventually will come to face me and will probably try to kick my butt.
In an utopic society maybe we could expect no reation from insulting people but since we are nowhere near to be an utopic society we should be careful with what we say because people might get upset and we might get into trouble, we have to be prudent with what we say if we dont want undesired outcomes like the outcomes of those cartoonist, they didnt measure the consequences of their actions, they were not prudent enough and that's what they got, i'm not defending the terrorist but the cartoonists were playing with fire and they got burned that's what happens when you dont take into account other people's view and feelings into the equation.

I think if we desagree with someone we are capable of saying so without coming to insults or mockery, that's what true
freedom of speech is, insulting people is not freedom of speech that is debauchery, and above all we cannot expect people to behave properly if we dont do it ourselves.

What a lot of guys dont want to understand the freedom of speech is one of the most important part of the human rights which were created after a long time periode of blood shed. It isnt only an attack against the drawers of the cartoons it also an insult to the people who fought for the right expressing their speech no its an attack against humanity. You can't justify murder in our democracy. These terrorists are like a bunch of psycho kids who can't counter an insult instead they use their fists.
And yes even an insult is a way of express your opinion.

 

[Olorin]

Anyone can and should be able to say whatever they want, insulting someone to their face isn't the same, that's harassment which intrudes upon the freedom of another, but no one is forcing you to buy the magazine and noone is shoving the cartoons in your face

You said about 5 times that what the terrorists did was wrong but you also basically said that the cartoonists got what they deserved

If I want to say something about Muhammad or Jesus or Obama or Lil' Kim from Korea or Napoleon or the flying sorcerer of looneyville I will

No one should be affraid for their safety because of what they said/wrote