Argument on why Madara can beat Naruto and Sasuke indivually (Actual Argument)

[Omar19992010]

So how does that equal to this:



You know since it was already done before natural energy Zzz

Because he needs the Ashura Avatar plus the massive amounts of Natural energy to use the Rasenshurikens.

The ones that Naruto used before weren't even in the same league as the ones he used against Sasuke.

 

[King Of Pop]

ill just counter for sasuke.

=Omar19992010;18284694]

Sasuke
There are multiple ways that Madara can avoid being blitzed by Amenotejikara

1. Put up ribcage Susano'o

prove that he can put it up in time before sasuke attacks connect except you mean he would put it up immediately in that case it wont matter because bps slash or ps chidori would tear right through the ribcage as sasuke can use amenotejikara with ps, dont forget that. but if you meant this without ps then yes its a good counter if madara put it up in time.

2. He'll have a fresh set of Truth Seeking balls in which he can create a shield which would act as a meat shield

ok

3. Switch with a Limbo

ok

Sasuke's Rinnegan techniques aren't gonna do him much good when Madara's Rinnegan techniques are on a way higher scale than Sasuke's. Plus Sasuke can't deal with Limbo's as easily as Naruto in which he can't seal them away. People forget that Sasuke's eye has a cool down in which he's powerless for that set time if he overuses it.

rinnegan techniques from madara arent do anything to bijju ps tho, and limbo would be irrelevant as they cant breach soosano which is the main thing sasuke is using here. they cant touch sasuke let alone harm him. ps swats them away and sasuke focuses on the real madara or he can just ignore them and go for the real one. or if they come close he can cut them with kagusuchi spikes, they are non factor.
bold. correction hes amenotejikara has a cooldown, pretty sure he can still use ps.

Indra's Arrow can be countered by a High Powered ST which would stop Indra's arrow dead in it's tracks or he can take the hit and regenerate from it and Sasuke wastes most of his Chakra and Sasuke can't seal him away because he lacks the Moon and Sun Seals.

well he can bliz madara like he did to narutos avatar and smack him down, he can use hes bps slashes to cut down madara, then he can throw in the arrow for good measure. agree on the sealing part although madara would be ripped to pieces if gets a direct hit from the arrow, during that interval sasuke could possibly absorb his bijju chakra with the same method he used on the bijjus themselves, thats definitely a possibility.

Hypothetically speaking Mokuton clones should be able to use PS like when Naruto used Multiple Kurama avatars which would keep Sasuke busy enough for Madara to prep a Quad Juubi TBB to eradicate Sasuke's Bijuu PS considering he didn't even know Naruto was gathering Natural energy.

thats speculation though, even if they use ps am pretty sure they would be inferior to sasukes rikudou ps let alone hes bijju ps. you cant use the naruto example as you have no evidence that madaras moku ps clones would be as strong as the avatars, not to mention sasuke was toying with them. he rips through any ps clone easily. no its not the same thing, the clone just sat down there quietly while sasuke was engaged, obv sasuke wouldnt know its up to something considering they were high in the air and the avatar clone was on the ground gathering the senjutsu. that is different from the process of prepping a quad bijju dama in which a tree is summoned. pretty sure sasuke would catch sight of a big tree and considering he has knowledge of it am pretty sure he would what madara plans to do with the tree. that said the moment the tree is summoned sasuke blizes towards its location and cuts it down effectively hence no prepping of quad juubi dama.

That's my Argument right there and if anybody wants to debate I'll debate.

nice arguments. at least you didnt result to fanficiton which is what most madara tards tend to use to cover up madaras lack of quality feats as a jj in comparison with what sasuke or naruto can do. am open to a debate.

 

[HENI]

Sasuke can Amenjikara Madara to the Sun.

 

[Omar19992010]

• First of all, Naruto gathered a Large amount of Nature Energy in minutes, He Even admitted he gathered too much.

You skipped my previous post in where Madara would make the Chibaku Tensei bigger which would make Naruto have to gather Natural energy by that time Madara would've already activated Infinite Tsukuyomi.

• Secondly Kurama avatar certainly can't be put down by any form of Perfect Susanoo considering Sasuke Indra's Susano with Bijuu chakra didn't do much.

Madara's Perfect Susano'o would be stronger than Sasuke's hypothetically speaking who was matching Naruto's Kyuubi Avatar equally. While if Madara's used PS with mokuton clones they would definitely be weaker than if they were used in one body but the same thing applies to Naruto's Shadow Clones.

PS powered up by Rikudo Chakra and Six Path Senjutsu>Kurama Avatar powerd up by Six Paths Senjutsu

• Thirdly Naruto clones were shown to actually match Madara's Limbo. Besides Naruto doesn't need to use normal Rasenshuriken, Lava Rasenshuriken would be enough.

Sure they can match them but it was implied that Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow Clones off Panel considering they were the last ones standing. Madara absorbs Naruto's Rasenshuriken.

• Fourtly, Madara can't possibly regenerate if he gets distingrated to mere molecules. And Naruto Bijuu-Dama has already been shown to destroy Multi-Satellites with relative ease.

It's been said that he was Immortal and Sasuke even commented he wasn't gonna be dieing in that state after he absorbed the Shinju. Considering they were trying to seal him with the Moon and Sun Seals.

• Finally, you do realize, Sasuke literally severed Madara in Half?
He's Indra Perfect Susanoo definitely surpassed Madara's easily, Besides If Naruto and Sasuke works together Madara doesn't stand a chance!

Sasuke severing Madara in half didn't really do anything to him and he didn't even seem affected by it he regrew a pair of legs right away. His Bijuu PS would be stronger than Rikudo Madara's PS but his ordinary PS not so much.

 

[Narutohokage324]

Sasuke can Amenjikara Madara to the Sun.

Sun is 10 meters away from Naruto Verse Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

@Omar19992010: Why are you differentiating Six Path's Senjutsu and Rikudo Chakra? It's the same power. The former leads to the latter. Naruto got Hagoromo's chakra and obtained Six Path's Senjutsu, yet his Kurama Avatar is equal to Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo, which only has Hagoromo's Chakra buffing it. So saying Six Path's Senjutsu+Rikudo Chakra>Rikudo Chakra as proof for Naruto's and Sasuke's Avatars being below Madara's makes no sense, especially Naruto since Naruto HAS half of Hagoromo's chakra, which also let him get Six Path's Senjutsu. Where is the difference between him and Madara?

All you can do to prove Madara's PS>Sasuke's or Naruto's Avatar is to prove that the boost the Juubi gives is superior to the one they got from Hagoromo, or to compare the Avatars before and after the boost.

 

[Glad Of War]

You skipped my previous post in where Madara would make the Chibaku Tensei bigger which would make Naruto have to gather Natural energy by that time Madara would've already activated Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Even if Madara uses Chibaku Tensei, it would be irrelevant simply because Naruto can use Kurama Clones to gather Nature Energy Instead.

Madara's Perfect Susano'o would be stronger than Sasuke's hypothetically speaking who was matching Naruto's Kyuubi Avatar equally. While if Madara's used PS with mokuton clones they would definitely be weaker than if they were used in one body but the same thing applies to Naruto's Shadow Clones.

PS powered up by Rikudo Chakra and Six Path Senjutsu>Kurama Avatar powerd up by Six Paths Senjutsu

Sasuke's Perfect Susano didn't match Naruto Kurama Avatar, Sasuke Bijuu Susano did. Besides Madara has never been shown to use Perfect Susanoo in Rikudo Mode, your claims is just false assumptions.

Sure they can match them but it was implied that Madara's Limbo clones beat Naruto's Shadow Clones off Panel considering they were the last ones standing. Madara absorbs Naruto's Rasenshuriken.

Edo Madara, when he absorbed Naruto Rasenshuriken admitted it had a lot of energy. If Naruto uses Odama Rasenshuriken or even Lava, Madara wouldn't possibly absorb them easily.

It's been said that he was Immortal and Sasuke even commented he wasn't gonna be dieing in that state after he absorbed the Shinju. Considering they were trying to seal him with the Moon and Sun Seals.

Yea Madara was immortal Until he got betrayed, Meaning Madara can be defeated by simply removing the Tail beasts from him.

Sasuke severing Madara in half didn't really do anything to him and he didn't even seem affected by it he regrew a pair of legs right away. His Bijuu PS would be stronger than Rikudo Madara's PS but his ordinary PS not so much.

Madara has crazing regeneration I admit that, But I'm pretty sure he can't counter Bijuu Dama Rasenshuriken considering it literally destroys the Cells. Mind you when Naruto use it against Madara's Satellites, they got obliterated to mere dust in seconds.

 

[Omar19992010]

ill just counter for sasuke.


prove that he can put it up in time before sasuke attacks connect except you mean he would put it up immediately in that case it wont matter because bps slash or ps chidori would tear right through the ribcage as sasuke can use amenotejikara with ps, dont forget that. but if you meant this without ps then yes its a good counter if madara put it up in time.

Yeah I was talking about in CQC. Itachi was able to put up Rib-Cage Susano'o before he got hit by Lightning, I'm pretty sure Madara can put up a Rib-Cage Susano'o before he gets hit by Sasuke's attack.

rinnegan techniques from madara arent do anything to bijju ps tho, and limbo would be irrelevant as they cant breach soosano which is the main thing sasuke is using here. they cant touch sasuke let alone harm him. ps swats them away and sasuke focuses on the real madara or he can just ignore them and go for the real one. or if they come close he can cut them with kagusuchi spikes, they are non factor.
bold. correction hes amenotejikara has a cooldown, pretty sure he can still use ps.

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Right here he says he can't use his Right eye's Powers he doesn't specify Amenotejikara and if he could he would've tried putting up Susano'o or Amaterasu to burn it.

Limbo's aren't gonna affect PS but in CQC they could be a problem with Sasuke considering he can't seal them away and he can't deal with them as easily as Naruto can deal with them.

well he can bliz madara like he did to narutos avatar and smack him down, he can use hes bps slashes to cut down madara, then he can throw in the arrow for good measure. agree on the sealing part although madara would be ripped to pieces if gets a direct hit from the arrow, during that interval sasuke could possibly absorb his bijju chakra with the same method he used on the bijjus themselves, thats definitely a possibility.

Sure he can blitz him but he can't put down PS with just Sword slashes when that didn't work with Naruto. Plus there's going to be Mokuton clones using PS which would be there trying to attack the Bijuu PS and he would have to at least use Giant Lightning senbon in order to put them down but that would be countered with Shockwaves of the Sword slashes which would cause them to explode.

Indra's Arrow gets stopped in it's tracks by a full powered ST and in which Sasuke wastes his Chakra and Madara still has Chakra due to him being a Juubi Jin. I don't think you can absorb the Juubi, you have to seal it within yourself because if he did that would be way too much Chakra for Sasuke to handle.

thats speculation though, even if they use ps am pretty sure they would be inferior to sasukes rikudou ps let alone hes bijju ps. you cant use the naruto example as you have no evidence that madaras moku ps clones would be as strong as the avatars, not to mention sasuke was toying with them. he rips through any ps clone easily. no its not the same thing, the clone just sat down there quietly while sasuke was engaged, obv sasuke wouldnt know its up to something considering they were high in the air and the avatar clone was on the ground gathering the senjutsu. that is different from the process of prepping a quad bijju dama in which a tree is summoned. pretty sure sasuke would catch sight of a big tree and considering he has knowledge of it am pretty sure he would what madara plans to do with the tree. that said the moment the tree is summoned sasuke blizes towards its location and cuts it down effectively hence no prepping of quad juubi dama.

Actually hypothetically speaking they would be stronger than Sasuke's Rinnegan PS and Naruto's Kyuubi Avatar due to the fact that Madara's PS would be powered up by both Six Paths Senjutsu and Rikudo Chakra while Naruto's Kyuubi avatar is only powered up by Six Paths Senjutsu and Sasuke's PS is only powered up by Rikudo Chakra.

Considering 25 EDO Madara Mokuton Clones could use V3 Susano'o, Juubi Jin Madara who has chakra levels light years ahead of EDO Madara and has more Chakra than even Rikudo Naruto should be able to use Mokuton Clones using PS.

Naruto's Kyuubi strength are divided between the clones, same thing with Madara except like I said above they would hypothetically be stronger than Naruto's Kyuubi Avatar which was equal to Sasuke's PS.

I don't think he would catch sight of the big tree when there's Mokuton PS clones keeping him busy. Considering he couldn't even catch a Giant Fox Mediating and gathering energy because Naruto's clones were keeping him busy and those PS Mokuton clones would be acting on the defensive while Madara preps the Quad Juubi TBB and he fires that at Sasuke.

Or he just use Chibaku Tensei and make them way bigger than before which would keep Sasuke's Bijuu PS busy which would give him time to use the Quad Juubi TBB. Now lets remember that Madara did Country sized CT casually without any real effort imagine if he put real effort into them. He should be able to Keep Sasuke Bijuu PS busy enough while he goes and preps a Quad Juubi TBB.

nice arguments. at least you didnt result to fanficiton which is what most madara tards tend to use to cover up madaras lack of quality feats as a jj in comparison with what sasuke or naruto can do. am open to a debate.

Most Madara tards are just fapboys who don't use Logic at all. Lol

 

[Omar19992010]

@Omar19992010: Why are you differentiating Six Path's Senjutsu and Rikudo Chakra? It's the same power. The former leads to the latter. Naruto got Hagoromo's chakra and obtained Six Path's Senjutsu, yet his Kurama Avatar is equal to Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo, which only has Hagoromo's Chakra buffing it. So saying Six Path's Senjutsu+Rikudo Chakra>Rikudo Chakra as proof for Naruto's and Sasuke's Avatars being below Madara's makes no sense, especially Naruto since Naruto HAS half of Hagoromo's chakra, which also let him get Six Path's Senjutsu. Where is the difference between him and Madara?

All you can do to prove Madara's PS>Sasuke's or Naruto's Avatar is to prove that the boost the Juubi gives is superior to the one they got from Hagoromo, or to compare the Avatars before and after the boost.

There's also the Six Paths Senjutsu which give him the boost but shouldn't the Rinnegan also give him the boost since it is Rikudo Chakra?

 

[KidGamer65]

There's also the Six Paths Senjutsu which give him the boost but shouldn't the Rinnegan also give him the boost since it is Rikudo Chakra?

Rinnegan doesn't give you Rikudo Chakra. Rikudo Chakra is what lets you get the Rinnegan. Madara had that chakra yet his Susanoo wasn't any stronger than before.

 

[Omar19992010]

Rinnegan doesn't give you Rikudo Chakra. Rikudo Chakra is what lets you get the Rinnegan. Madara had that chakra yet his Susanoo wasn't any stronger than before.

Honestly it just seemed to me that it was another one of Kishimoto's inconsistencies. Madara has Rikudo Chakra but his Susano'o gets tailed whipped by Bijuu Chakra yet like 20 chapters later Kakashi pulls a PS out of his ass even though he has an MS and his PS is powered up by Rikudo Chakra. Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Honestly it just seemed to me that it was another one of Kishimoto's inconsistencies. Madara has Rikudo Chakra but his Susano'o gets tailed whipped by Bijuu Chakra yet like 20 chapters later Kakashi pulls a PS out of his ass even though he has an MS and his PS is powered up by Rikudo Chakra. Lol

Lol, right. Though Sasuke did get half from the man himself, while Madara only got a portion from mixing Ashura and Indra's chakras.

 

[Omar19992010]

Lol, right. Though Sasuke did get half from the man himself, while Madara only got a portion from mixing Ashura and Indra's chakras.

Technically that should still put him having more Rikudo Chakra than Kakashi. Considering Madara knew Obito absorb it and yet he didn't even care to absorb it back from his which could mean it was a very small portion which didn't even matter that much.

 

[KidGamer65]

Technically that should still put him having more Rikudo Chakra than Kakashi. Considering Madara knew Obito absorb it and yet he didn't even care to absorb it back from his which could mean it was a very small portion which didn't even matter that much.

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense. The only possibility I can think of, is Rinnegan reacting to the chakra in some way, so that when the user gets it, they get a massive power up. Not completely sure though, nor do I have evidence backing this.

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Sasuke's Rinnegan techniques aren't gonna do him much good when Madara's Rinnegan techniques are on a way higher scale than Sasuke's.

Lololol please explain

 

[Omar19992010]

Lololol please explain

Madara's Casual CT

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Sasuke's Casual CT

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See the difference?

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Madara's Casual CT

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Sasuke's Casual CT

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See the difference?

Lelelelel, Shitty scan since sasuke only needed 9 CT's, anyways...

Difference is Sasuke's Susanoo was casually slicing Madara's CT's a feat that puts Sasuke's Susanoo FAR ABOVE Madara's Susanoo

Difference is Sasuke can use Amennotejikara and possibly Limbo, while Madara is only able to utilize Limbo

Difference is Sasuke can place Bijuus in a Genjutsu in a glance, a feat that surprised SO6P himself who has a Rinnegan similar to Madaras, albeit a lot stronger.

Difference is Madara needed cores for his Chibaku Tensei, While Sasuke was able to use his targets as the core for the CT, a feat that alone puts Sasuke's CT above Madara's

Difference is Sasuke's rinnegan can use EMS techs while Madara's can't

Difference is Sasuke's Rinnegan can do everything a normal Rinnegan can do, and more

Difference is Sasuke's Rinnegan > Madara's

 

[Styles]

I will actually make a decent Argument on why Madara beats both Naruto and Sasuke individually and I'm not a troll or Madara fapboy

Naruto
People forget that Ashura Avatar requires tons of Natural energy which Naruto needs tons of time to gather all that Natural energy it's not gonna happen when Madara will be able to sense Naruto gathering it and put a stop to it.

Kurama Avatar would be put down by PS which would theoretically be stronger than Kurama Avatar due to the fact that
Six Paths Senjutsu + Rikudo Chakra>Six Paths Senjutsu.

Clones are useless when Madara can counter them with Mokuton and Limbo clones plus Madara can tell which one's the Original so he'll just go after the original and Rasenshuriken and Rasengan variants get absorbed with Preta Path.

Chibaku Tensei and Limbo clones keep Naruto busy just like in Cannon and in that time Madara cast IT to get rid of Naruto. If Naruto decides to Kyuubi Avatar to blow up the Chibaku Tensei. Madara just makes them Bigger. Madara can regnerate from all of Naruto's attacks within seconds

Sasuke
There are multiple ways that Madara can avoid being blitzed by Amenotejikara

1. Put up ribcage Susano'o
2. He'll have a fresh set of Truth Seeking balls in which he can create a shield which would act as a meat shield
3. Switch with a Limbo

Sasuke's Rinnegan techniques aren't gonna do him much good when Madara's Rinnegan techniques are on a way higher scale than Sasuke's. Plus Sasuke can't deal with Limbo's as easily as Naruto in which he can't seal them away. People forget that Sasuke's eye has a cool down in which he's powerless for that set time if he overuses it.

Once Sasuke decides to use his Bijuu Perfect Susano'o, Madara's not out of options.

Indra's Arrow can be countered by a High Powered ST which would stop Indra's arrow dead in it's tracks or he can take the hit and regenerate from it and Sasuke wastes most of his Chakra and Sasuke can't seal him away because he lacks the Moon and Sun Seals.

Hypothetically speaking Mokuton clones should be able to use PS like when Naruto used Multiple Kurama avatars which would keep Sasuke busy enough for Madara to prep a Quad Juubi TBB to eradicate Sasuke's Bijuu PS considering he didn't even know Naruto was gathering Natural energy.

That's my Argument right there and if anybody wants to debate I'll debate.

Sasuke was focusing on the main one. Why focus on a clone? Also he did know Naruto gained nature energy.

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Sasuke's Perfect Susano didn't match Naruto Kurama Avatar, Sasuke Bijuu Susano did. Besides Madara has never been shown to use Perfect Susanoo in Rikudo Mode, your claims is just false assumptions.

Sasuke's PS kept up with Naruto's BM/BSM avatar. Bijuu Susano'o beat it and then was on par with the Ashura avatar that was full of nature energy.

 

[Bronze]

The tears of the denials are delicious. Well formulated thread, op.

 

[BLAZE]

Imo Triple eye Maddy is Stronger than Naruto and Sasuke individually
Nice thread