[Discussion] Kaidou vs Pre TS Admirals

[Bogard]

I think his hype only includes zoans/animals, hence Nami's reaction. Admirals being logias shouldn't be included. Still, i think he can win against any admirals besides Akainu

WB nearly died from the hands of Akainu despite catching him off-guard. Kaido is no exception & Akainu's DF is devastating in close combat. If he nearly blew off WB's face, someone who's knowing for being a tank, imagine what he could do to someone else. Based off hype, Kaido probably wins extreme-diff.

Admirals are so underrated here. If its the 3 admirals against Kaido, I would say it would be a low-diff. win for them.

That Whitebeard was already close to death, heavily impairing his reaction speed. The first shot was an off-guard attack sure, but after the first shot, Akainu wasn't off-guard anymore, hell he is the one who directly back-fired, but Whitebeard's second assault still managed to almost KO him. It demonstrated the great difference in strength between them considering Whitebeard's close to death state at that moment, yet 2 shots were enough

 

[Hexuze]

I think his hype only includes zoans/animals, hence Nami's reaction. Admirals being logias shouldn't be included. Still, i think he can win against any admirals besides Akainu
That Whitebeard was already close to death, heavily impairing his reaction speed. The first shot was an off-guard attack sure, but after the first shot, Akainu wasn't off-guard anymore, hell he is the one who directly back-fired, but Whitebeard's second assault still managed to almost KO him. It demonstrated the great difference in strength between them considering Whitebeard's close to death state at that moment, yet 2 shots were enough

Yea I'm not denying that but before that they were clashing with one another quite effortlessly so I wouldnt say the gap between them is huge. Akainu had him "pinned" down during the fight too.

 

[Ryūkai1]

We know nothing of Kaido

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Oh Flamingo fears the Admirals too he's just playing it tough(Fuji can bury him 5 feet under the ground)

remember when Aokiji made that pink clown run?

remember when he is taking shots against Law?

Why do ppl say doffy ran away from akoiji.. like seriously law and luffy had Caesar he was looking for them so kaido won't come after him how would fighting akoiji help him capture Caesar back ... Like use ur brains ppl fighting an admiral isn't smart when someone is about to threaten everything u worked for (Caesar and the smile factory etc) not saying doffy can beat akoiji because by feats he can't and I dnt believe him to be able to but what benifit would it give him for fighting someone while trying to look for someone


As for who wins well tech akoiji and kizaru didn't display bushido haki I think akainu did Although not sure kaido should be able to break out of akoiji ice as he is on level of whitebeard and way stronger then doffy by portrayal and both did it no problem.. kizaru is a problem due to speed but his attacks Marco tanked granted Marco had healing abilities but I think post timeskip kaido should have enough haki to not be bothered by kizaru similar to Marco attacking akainu (tho not to tht extreme he will damage kaido a little unlike Marco who couldn't damage akainu at all) akainu As everyone said is the biggest problem it's gonna b hard to defeat him but if kaido has the haki prowess of shanks or prime whitebesrd or somehwre in between he should be able to hurt him

As for beating them he would have to take out akainu first and have a full body haki to block against kizaru attacks similar to vergo but on level of prob shanks ... As for akoiji his abilities need to be dodged not tanked like kizarus if catched he needs to break out of them quick but tht should be easy seeing as whitebeards and doffy did it without a problem

 

[Hexuze]

That was a sick, old, having a seizure, dying WB. Kaido is most definitely an exception as he is stronger than WB. Akainu's DF being devastating is a fact, but an irrelevant one because Kaido is the strongest creature and that's an established manga fact. Zoan types are pretty tanky as well, just saying. But appealing to ignorance because we don't know anything about Kaido is not helping your argument.

No, they aren't. If Oda established Kaido as the strongest creature in OP verse than that's how it is. You wanting to deny it in order to glorify the Admiral's by appealing to ignorance won't do anything for you. Because at the end of the day, Kaido>>any admiral, with or without feats.

Where have I said Akainu would win? I was mainly responding to your underestimation/overestimation of the admirals/Kaido. Just because he's the strongest creature doesn't mean he would smash Akainu. Nothings suggests that.

 

[A v i]

That was a sick, old, having a seizure, dying WB. Kaido is most definitely an exception as he is stronger than WB. Akainu's DF being devastating is a fact, but an irrelevant one because Kaido is the strongest creature and that's an established manga fact. Zoan types are pretty tanky as well, just saying. But appealing to ignorance because we don't know anything about Kaido is not helping your argument.

No, they aren't. If Oda established Kaido as the strongest creature in OP verse than that's how it is. You wanting to deny it in order to glorify the Admiral's by appealing to ignorance won't do anything for you. Because at the end of the day, Kaido>>any admiral, with or without feats.

His title most likely does not include humans. Ya I know that humans are creatures but the term creature is often used for representing non humans. No one ever portrayed to be above WB. Upon hearing about his title, Nami instantly said that " so he isn't even a human' hence separating humans from his title.

 

[Apêx1]

Where have I said Akainu would win? I was mainly responding to your underestimation/overestimation of the admirals/Kaido. Just because he's the strongest creature doesn't mean he would smash Akainu. Nothings suggests that.

There were some questionable things which made me say that, mostly "WB nearly died from the hands of Akainu despite catching him off-guard. Kaido is no exception." And I'm not underestimating anyone. WB was exponentially weaker than normal and still put up a good fight against all 3 admirals. Kaido>WB meaning he'll mid to mid-high diff any admiral, I'll make it high diff assuming Akainu becoming fleet admiral implies he received massive boosts over the Time skip. But saying because WB .... Kaido .... doesn't make sense, since Kaido is stronger and WB was sick at the time making any comparison moot.

His title most likely does not include humans. Ya I know that humans are creatures but the term creature is often used for representing non humans. No one ever portrayed to be above WB. Upon hearing about his title, Nami instantly said that " so he isn't even a human' hence separating humans from his title.

That's an assumption made by many. Creatures are creatures. Humans are in fact creatures (as you said), so everyone was included in that statement. WB had immense panel time whereas Kaido is a highly mysterious character. So I don't understand what your point is when you say WB's portrayal>Kaidou's when Kaidou's only mentioning is him>every creature. And your interpretation of what happened is flawed, because those words were left ambiguously. Moreover, some translations refer to Kaidou as thing instead of creature to further cement his

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to everything. Clearly, when Doflamingo would rather fight Big Momma than fight admirals, and then out of the 4 Yonko, singles out Kaido instead of Big Momma, there's more to. Hence Kaido>WB>Big Momma/Shanks.

 

[Ridoku X]

Kaido wins individually against the admirals. v_v

It's a long shot though, could go either way high-extreme diff.

 

[ultraChalk]

Eh.

He ties with Akainu.
Possibly ties with Aokiji.
Either ties or wins with severe wounds against Kizaru.

 

[jiraiya lives]

hype wise he beats any admiral 1 v 1. It would be quite a disappointment if the strongest creature alive couldn't defeat a single admiral.

Feat wise he gets raped considering he hasn't shown anything

 

[David1996]

WB nearly died from the hands of Akainu despite catching him off-guard. Kaido is no exception & Akainu's DF is devastating in close combat. If he nearly blew off WB's face, someone who's knowing for being a tank, imagine what he could do to someone else. Based off hype, Kaido probably wins extreme-diff.

Admirals are so underrated here. If its the 3 admirals against Kaido, I would say it would be a low diff. win for them.

And wtf is with this whole "smashing" stuff. WB never smashed Akainu. I guess people wanted that to happen considering what he did to Ace.

It's true the admirals are underrated by a lot of people but you're overrating them here.

Akainu couldn't beat and old, injured, sick WB and matter of fact he should have died after that hit from WB. If Akainu can't beat WB then Kizaru and Aokiji certainly can't. On the other hand a healthy Marineford WB is weaker than Kaido.

Not saying Kaido can beat all 3 together, he'll lose, but not low-diff.

 

[A v i]

That's an assumption made by many. Creatures are creatures. Humans are in fact creatures (as you said), so everyone was included in that statement. WB had immense panel time whereas Kaido is a highly mysterious character. So I don't understand what your point is when you say WB's portrayal>Kaidou's when Kaidou's only mentioning is him>every creature. And your interpretation of what happened is flawed, because those words were left ambiguously. Moreover, some translations refer to Kaidou as thing instead of creature to further cement his

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to everything. Clearly, when Doflamingo would rather fight Big Momma than fight admirals, and then out of the 4 Yonko, singles out Kaido instead of Big Momma, there's more to. Hence Kaido>WB>Big Momma/Shanks.

It doesn't matter if he has less panel time than WB. The thing is that WB was portrayed to be above everyone that sails the seas in OP. Shanks someone who was portrayed to be weaker than WB managed to stop him from achieving his objective without even breaking a sweat and made it to MF in no time.

 

[Olorin]

Imo all the battles would be very close
V Kuzan could go either way
V Kizaru could go either way
V Akainu imo Akainu would win

3v1 would be a stomp

Why should the strongest pirates be stronger than the strongest marines? Admirals are underrated

 

[Punk Hazard]

Kaido has the hype of being the strongest creature/thing in the OP world, so one on one, he can defeat them. All together, they defeat him at probably the lowest part of mid-diff.

Also, if anyone here really thinks that Shanks fought Kaido and defeated him in a single day without a single scratch when rookie Ace could fight for five days straight and the Admirals took ten days, then you are truly retarded.

 

[Hexuze]

It's true the admirals are underrated by a lot of people but you're overrating them here.

Akainu couldn't beat and old, injured, sick WB and matter of fact he should have died after that hit from WB. If Akainu can't beat WB then Kizaru and Aokiji certainly can't. On the other hand a healthy Marineford WB is weaker than Kaido.

Not saying Kaido can beat all 3 together, he'll lose, but not low-diff.

I'm not overrating them. It would be overkill for Kaido to face against Akainu, Aokiji & Kizaru at the same time.

Yes, of course. Akainu can't beat WB. My point was that WB never "smashed" Akainu.

If Kaido does live up to his hype then I'll prob. be more inclined to say a mid-diff. for the admirals but even then mid-diff. is being a bit generous.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I think his hype only includes zoans/animals, hence Nami's reaction. Admirals being logias shouldn't be included. Still, i think he can win against any admirals besides Akainu
That Whitebeard was already close to death, heavily impairing his reaction speed. The first shot was an off-guard attack sure, but after the first shot, Akainu wasn't off-guard anymore, hell he is the one who directly back-fired, but Whitebeard's second assault still managed to almost KO him. It demonstrated the great difference in strength between them considering Whitebeard's close to death state at that moment, yet 2 shots were enough

That doesn't make sense to me. If Law meant all Zoans, he would have said Zoans. I don't see why Paramecia and Logia would get be labelled as such, and then Zoans just get "thing" and "creature."

As for the wording itself, Creature can mean either every living creature or anything other than humans. At this point, it's purely up to our own interpretations. Perhaps it's best to just hold off on using that hype in the discussions until we get more clarification.

 

[A v i]

Kaido has the hype of being the strongest creature/thing in the OP world, so one on one, he can defeat them. All together, they defeat him at probably the lowest part of mid-diff.

Also, if anyone here really thinks that Shanks fought Kaido and defeated him in a single day without a single scratch when rookie Ace could fight for five days straight and the Admirals took ten days, then you are truly retarded.

Well it seems like I wasn't being clear in my previous post. I know that they most likely didn't engaged in a battle but the thing is that manga implied that it is nearly impossible to convince Kaido with words and no need to mention, Kaido earns a lot by killing WB so stopping him from killing WB is nearly impossible yet Shanks made him quit his objective or rather you could say that Kaido was forced to stop because he knew that he'd meet his end against Shanks. He was planning to take on whole fleet of WB which means that he has a fleet with him as well yet this dude was stopped by Shanks (with single battle ship).


Inb4 taking on two yonko is impossible:

There is no need for him to face both of them. Shanks is also a yonko like WB. So, he can just kill Shanks and call it a day. Death of Shanks will have the same impact as Wb's death and he can earn just as much by killing Shanks but he didn't do that despite of having a fleet(most likely) with him.That speaks for volumes if you ask me.Lol

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well it seems like I wasn't being clear in my previous post. I know that they most likely didn't engaged in a battle but the thing is that manga implied that it is nearly impossible to convince Kaido with words and no need to mention, Kaido earns a lot by killing WB so stopping him from killing WB is nearly impossible yet Shanks made him quit his objective or rather you could say that Kaido was forced to stop because he knew that he'd meet his end against Shanks. He was planning to take on whole fleet of WB which means that he has a fleet with him as well yet this dude was stopped by Shanks (with single battle ship).


Inb4 taking on two yonko is impossible:

There is no need for him to face both of them. Shanks is also a yonko like WB so he can just kill Shanks and call it a day. Death of Shanks will have the same impact as Wb's death and he can earn just as much by killing Shanks but he didn't do that despite of having a fleet(most likely) with him.That speaks for volumes if you ask me.Lol

Not really. For one, by being a Yonko, his strength is already comparable to Shanks. People already know he's on Shanks' level more or less. Killing Whitebeard would earn him a lot more than killing Shanks because Whitebeard is the strongest man in the entire world. By killing Whitebeard, Kaido would have asserted that he is the strongest man in the world. Because Whitebeard was a level above Shanks by world view, killing him would have been a much greater boost to his reputation.

Kaido wanting to kill Whitebeard could also be any other number of things. Could be that he had a grudge against Whitebeard. Could be that he just didn't like Whitebeard. Could be that he had a deal with someone in the Underworld. Could be for as I said above, to simply assert that he is the world's strongest man. Kaido quitting his objective because of Shanks could have been because Kaido owes Shanks something, or Shanks offered Kaido something. It could have been because Kaido knew fighting Shanks would take a really long time, and by the time he was done, he'd be in no condition to fight another Yonko, and his opportunity to do so would have been gone as he wanted to intercept Whitebeard before he got to Marineford. The circumstances revolving around those three Yonko during the time is too unknown to us to be used effectively in any debate.

 

[A v i]

Not really. For one, by being a Yonko, his strength is already comparable to Shanks. People already know he's on Shanks' level more or less. Killing Whitebeard would earn him a lot more than killing Shanks because Whitebeard is the strongest man in the entire world. By killing Whitebeard, Kaido would have asserted that he is the strongest man in the world. Because Whitebeard was a level above Shanks by world view, killing him would have been a much greater boost to his reputation.

There is absolutely nothing that puts all Yonko on the same level in terms of strength. Yes, Killing WB would earn him more than it does in case of Shanks but the difference isn't much big. I don't get from where you pulled that WB is a level above Shanks thing but manga or anyone else never implied anything like that.

Funny thing is that Kaido should be already above WB as WB is a creature so his title should include WB going by your logic. Yet for some reason you are kinda implying that WB was an exception.Lol

Kaido wanting to kill Whitebeard could also be any other number of things. Could be that he had a grudge against Whitebeard. Could be that he just didn't like Whitebeard. Could be that he had a deal with someone in the Underworld. Could be for as I said above, to simply assert that he is the world's strongest man.

His reason is most likely killing him and take over all of his territories and of course killing WB would increase his reputation. His reasons are irrelevant, Shanks got in his way and tried to stop him from achieving his objective. Given his aggressive nature he would get mad at Shanks for trying to stop him and kill him. By killing Shanks he can take revenge on him for getting in his way and also his reputation will increase but he didn't do that. That says something.

Kaido quitting his objective because of Shanks could have been because Kaido owes Shanks something, or Shanks offered Kaido something. It could have been because Kaido knew fighting Shanks would take a really long time, and by the time he was done, he'd be in no condition to fight another Yonko, and his opportunity to do so would have been gone as he wanted to intercept Whitebeard before he got to Marineford. The circumstances revolving around those three Yonko during the time is too unknown to us to be used effectively in any debate.

Manga clearly implied that Kaido isn't someone that can be reasoned with, also it seems like you forgot the fact that Yonko are enemies.Lol

Shanks can never offer something that can replace WB's head. But I agree with that point, Shanks most likely offered him something but again we have this Kaido isn't someone that can be reasoned with hype from manga. But still he accepted it or rather he was forced to accept it in exchange for quitting his objective.

I have already addressed that fighting two Yonko argument. Why should he fight two of them again? He intended to take WB's head and Shanks got in his way so he can just kill Shanks and go back to home. It may not be as effective as killing WB but still killing a fellow Yonko means a lot. There is noway in hell for someone as aggressive as Kaido to just quit his objective just because Shanks asked him to. It is a joke if you ask me.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

I see both Akainu and Aokiji as Yonko level, considering that both were candidates for FA.

So, until we see more of Kaido, I'm saying that Akainu and Aokiji could probably defeat him in 1 vs 1.

Tho, he defeat Kizaru with high diff.