RSM Naruto vs Rikudo Madara

[Conspirator.]

Naruto high diff.

 

[KidGamer65]

Can someone actually explain how Madara wins?

 

[Bronze]

It took the combined effort of Naruto and Sasuke to fight on par with 1-eyed Madara, what makes you think Naruto can do it alone? He can't. It has always been that way, and it will always be that way.

 

[juzumaki]

Naruto Madara doesnt have the feats to even suggest it would be a high diff fight

 

[Zee U]

Nardo takes this no more than mid diff.


- Madara's Limbo clone is pressured by Naruto's kage bunshins using superior taijutsu (due to Frog Kata's versatility) and sensing to overpower him and sealing him with the Jiton Rasengan.

- Naruto has a good edge in CQC due to the abilities mentioned above and Kairiki Musou. Databook stated that Naruto's reactions exceeded Madara's own (Rikudou Sage Mode > Rikudou Juubi Coffin Seal + Rinnegan) and assuming Madara closed the gap between him by absorbing the Shinju, Naruto still has the numerical advantage.

- Gudoudamas are countered like they already were in canon, the Gudoudama sphere is busted by Naruto's Rasenshuriken variants or by using a full powered Kairiki Musou along clones doing the same.

- Susanoo can be busted by Chou Odama Rasenshurinkens variants (the super combo one Naruto used againts Kaguya will suffice maybe) and V4 has piss poor offensive feats either way. PS needs both eyes so it doesn't belong to this matchup.

- What's next? Mokuton? Destroyed by Lava Rasenshurikens or dodged. Katon? Suiton Rasenshurikens assuming Naruto would be fazed by one... even if i want it Madara can't win this.

 

[Blunt]

By feats, Naruto stomps terribly, it's not even close. Without the avatars in play, here's how it could go..

Madara possesses the Shadow Clone technique as well as Wood Clones. These clones would obviously inherit all of Madara's new attributes, be it his ability to take flight to his physical enhancements and they can also use his jutsu.

These clones would also be capable of using v3 Legged Susano'o, which when buffed up by Rikudo's Chakra and Senjutsu, should butcher any of Naruto's clones and pressure him greatly. Madara also possesses Deva Path, he can replicate

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or pulverize them with his own chakra arms and or Ashura Path beams/bombs. Madara still has access to his v3 Susano'o, and it should be capable of tanking most elemental RS in the same fashion he did against the Bijuudama (with his blades) or with Goudama, he can even destroy them prematurely via multiple strikes. Though, Madara plows through them

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to make it simple.

Madara's biggest problem is Naruto's chakra arms, they can potentially bust a Rikudo enhanced v3. Considering Sasuke's v3 was capable of slicing a trunk far larger than itself when enhanced by a mere chakra cloak

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, it indicates that this variant does indeed possess miniature shockwaves and this also means Madara's possesses far more DC, mobility/speed and durability, as well as size than Sasuke's own Kyuubi buffed v3 Legged Susano'o.

Naruto gets annihilated by multiple Susano'o bound clones, Deva Path techniques and simply cannot overcome Madara without his avatar in this state. Madara is his physical equal, but possesses a regenerating factor and limitless chakra, as well as arguably superior Senjutsu.

 

[DHOH]

Can someone actually explain how Madara wins?

Naruto have zero advantages.. Madara have more chakra, can match naruto numbers, and can counter Naruto's power...all that without evening mention the all mighty rinnengan... Naruto can't survive IT..

 

[KidGamer65]

These clones would also be capable of using v3 Legged Susano'o, which when buffed up by Rikudo's Chakra and Senjutsu, should butcher any of Naruto's clones and pressure him greatly. Madara also possesses Deva Path, he can replicate

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or pulverize them with his own chakra arms and or Ashura Path beams/bombs. Madara still has access to his v3 Susano'o, and it should be capable of tanking most elemental RS in the same fashion he did against the Bijuudama (with his blades) or with Goudama, he can even destroy them prematurely via multiple strikes. Though, Madara plows through them

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to make it simple.

If only One Eyed Madara could use any of Deva's abilities. Him casting CT right after getting his eye back, but never using it before that only implies one thing. That he has no access to Deva's powers without having both Rinnegan, and nothing in the manga even supports him being able to do it. Even if he did, Deva has a 5 second cool down. Rikudo Chakra enhanced V3 Susanoo gets shat on by Rasen Shuriken barrages, especially when he clones the Susanoo considering Edo Madara's Susanoo clones are weaker than the original. A normal FRS takes out a regular V3, or at the very least, does heavy damage to it. Give them both Rikudo's Chakra, and while Madara's V3 has the edge due to him having the Juubi and Naruto not having access to his cloaked mode, upscale the FRS to a Chou Oodama size, and then add Yoton in there along with the Fuuton, it's clear that Madara's Susanoo doesn't stand a chance. Then when he clones it, it just gets weaker, thus easier for Naruto to take out. Anything caught in YRS's blast radius gets obliterated...then there is the fact that Naruto has clones, and can use Super Bijuu Rasen Shuriken, albeit downscaled due to the fact he lacks the Bijuu Cloak, but still stronger than YRS, and still strong enough to destroy Susanoo. Gudo Dama were being cracked by Bijuu Dama, YRS>>>Bijuu Dama from BSM Naruto, so those aren't tanking one let alone more than one. Destroy them? Lol, Madara's Susanoo's attacks aren't just going to make the RS's vanish. Not how it works.

Madara's biggest problem is Naruto's chakra arms, they can potentially bust a Rikudo enhanced v3. Considering Sasuke's v3 was capable of slicing a trunk far larger than itself when enhanced by a mere chakra cloak

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, it indicates that this variant does indeed possess miniature shockwaves and this also means Madara's possesses far more DC, mobility/speed and durability, as well as size than Sasuke's own Kyuubi buffed v3 Legged Susano'o.

Can't use chakra arms in this form. No Bijuu Cloak.

Naruto have zero advantages.. Madara have more chakra, can match naruto numbers, and can counter Naruto's power...all that without evening mention the all mighty rinnengan... Naruto can't survive IT..

Dude can't even use IT in this form.

 

[Apêx1]

Naruto's only way of bypassing Juubi Senjutsu empowered Susano is Bijuu Sage Mode that he used vs Sasuke. Otherwise Madara wins via mass scale Mokuton's, Susano shockwaves and potentially covering the entirety of the SS with PS all the while sitting inside a Gudo Dama shield comprised of all 9 Gudo Dama's, given his unlimited chakra with the Shinju absorbed. I don't see how he would possibly be damaged with all these defences backed up by potentially him utilising Preta Path, or merely using CST from the get-go without all these random jutsu. Feel free to disagree though, I just don't see Madara losing with his massive array of jutsu and being the Shinju host.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Naruto's only way of bypassing Juubi Senjutsu empowered Susano is Bijuu Sage Mode that he used vs Sasuke. Otherwise Madara wins via mass scale Mokuton's, Susano shockwaves and potentially covering the entirety of the SS with PS all the while sitting inside a Gudo Dama shield comprised of all 9 Gudo Dama's, given his unlimited chakra with the Shinju absorbed. I don't see how he would possibly be damaged with all these defences backed up by potentially him utilising Preta Path, or merely using CST from the get-go without all these random jutsu. Feel free to disagree though, I just don't see Madara losing with his massive array of jutsu and being the Shinju host.

Except rikkudo powered susanoo has never been confirmed for Madara. He was getting stomped left and right, in situations where susanoo would be the natural choice, yet never used it. Taking into factor that being a juubi jin can interfere with some abilities, it's not good to assume he has them, let alone use it for a debate. Even if he had it, Naruto has the KKGs of the bijus, and through ransenshuriken, he can take them to the highest level. And the most powerful susanoo he's used is the V3 susanoo. For all we know, the eyes are required to "stabilize" the chakra.


Madara's wood style is a non factor. Naruto could easily plow through it. It can only be useful if used along side something like susanoo, which is not confirmed for Madara.


Don't overestimate the TSBs. There are distinct limits to what they can do.

Spoiler

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Low-level KKGs can overpower them. Imagine what RS variants will do to even multiple TSB shields.


Madara doesn't have unlimited chakra, and he doesn't have preta or deva path with one eye. Kaguya has immense, but limited chakra. (it can be used up) therefore, Madara has a limited storage of chakra. There is no one-eyed rinnegan use barring Sasuke (with a unique rinnegan) who can use deva or preta path. Yet again, there were useful opportunities he could have used them for, but he didn't. Given that one needs both eyes for the true power, assuming he has all abilities is a grave mistake.

 

[Bronze]

It seems Madara with 1 Rinnegan cannot use any of the Six Paths techniques, Perfect Susanoo? I'm interested where you get this fan-fictional claims from...Wanna share where?

 

[Sennin of Logic]

It seems Madara with 1 Rinnegan cannot use any of the Six Paths techniques, Perfect Susanoo? I'm interested where you get this fan-fictional claims from...Wanna share where?

No, one-rinnegan users can definitely use human path, animal path, and most likely, the hell path. However, there's no evidence to begin to suggest that they can use deva, asura, or preta path. In fact, there's a great deal of evidence to suggest that they can't. You need 2 rinnegans for the true power, and Madara didn't use said rinnegan powers with one rinnegan. Logical conclusion: these 2 factors combine mean that one-rinnegan users can't use deva or preta path.

 

[Bronze]

No, one-rinnegan users can definitely use human path, animal path, and most likely, the hell path. However, there's no evidence to begin to suggest that they can use deva, asura, or preta path. In fact, there's a great deal of evidence to suggest that they can't. You need 2 rinnegans for the true power, and Madara didn't use said rinnegan powers with one rinnegan. Logical conclusion: these 2 factors combine mean that one-rinnegan users can't use deva or preta path.

And how did you exactly come to the conclusion that those Paths require different sources from other Paths, when Nagato canonically used all of them as one technique: Six Paths of Pain? While we are on that, you will need to prove the full power of the Rinnegan stems from those Paths, because never had the manga made any claim for that.

No, there is no sufficient evidence unless you comprehended it in a fallacious, which seems to be the case. Madara accessed to Limbo with one eye, which Nagato couldn't do with both eyes. He taught Obito how to use all of them, which Obito canonically approved he's able to with one eye. There is the theoretical case where he might have used Deva Path against to stab Sasuke. He already used Tengai Shensei and Preta Path as Edo Tensei, even though his eyes were fake.

The only logical conclusion for your last sentence is, having two Rinnegan multiples the techniques 5x times fold, as seen with Limbo increasing to 4 numbers in reverse to only able to create one, and of course, adding the one Naruto sealed making the total 5.

 

[Apêx1]

It seems Madara with 1 Rinnegan cannot use any of the Six Paths techniques, Perfect Susanoo? I'm interested where you get this fan-fictional claims from...Wanna share where?

What?.. Madara used Rinnegan jutsu with a fake Rinnegan, so a single real Rinnegan will be capable of the same or more. He

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, he

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, and then proceeded to use

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. I see no reason whatsoever as to why he can't use other paths, when he has shown the special jutsu of the Rinnegan and the outter path. Implicatively, he can use the rest of the paths, since Obito could use

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with a single eye, meaning paths are usable with a single Rinnegan. Unless you are trying to tell me the original user of the Rinnegan who trained until he was stone aged can't use the Rinnegan as well as Nagato, the second hand user that mastered it in a 'shorter amount' of time (if that's what you're claiming, not sure if srs). Especially true when you realise Nagato could use all 7 natures by his teens, and was nicely using the Deva and Gedo in his teens. Madara releases a normal ST which is on the level of Nagato's CST as Juubi Jin given he can freely throw out chakra with no regard for his chakra levels.

Perfect Susano is definitely usable by Madara whether he's a Jin or not. Madara could use Kamui while he was the Juubi Jin, and the only thing that sparked this whole MS and Juubi Jin don't coexist is sending a part of your body to another dimension is impossible. Yes, sending a part of the Juubi to another dimension while you remain obviously wouldn't work. But saying Madara, the guy who can use Susano without any eyes whatsoever, cannot use Susano while he has 1 eye and has transcended to Juubi Jin is an appeal to ignorance. Madara can use it, and he can use all his Mokuton's since there was no reason for him to have lost any of his powers upon becoming a Jin and transcending. He can use anything he did alive, albeit powered by Senjutsu and Juubi chakra, making it a whole new level. Kishi neglecting it to make Naruto and Sasuke's win more logical is none of my concern, because it's 100% manga possible based on other MS jutsu being used while being a Juubi Jin.

Except rikkudo powered susanoo has never been confirmed for Madara. He was getting stomped left and right, in situations where susanoo would be the natural choice, yet never used it. Taking into factor that being a juubi jin can interfere with some abilities, it's not good to assume he has them, let alone use it for a debate. Even if he had it, Naruto has the KKGs of the bijus, and through ransenshuriken, he can take them to the highest level. And the most powerful susanoo he's used is the V3 susanoo. For all we know, the eyes are required to "stabilize" the chakra.


Madara's wood style is a non factor. Naruto could easily plow through it. It can only be useful if used along side something like susanoo, which is not confirmed for Madara.


Don't overestimate the TSBs. There are distinct limits to what they can do.

Spoiler

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Low-level KKGs can overpower them. Imagine what RS variants will do to even multiple TSB shields.


Madara doesn't have unlimited chakra, and he doesn't have preta or deva path with one eye. Kaguya has immense, but limited chakra. (it can be used up) therefore, Madara has a limited storage of chakra. There is no one-eyed rinnegan use barring Sasuke (with a unique rinnegan) who can use deva or preta path. Yet again, there were useful opportunities he could have used them for, but he didn't. Given that one needs both eyes for the true power, assuming he has all abilities is a grave mistake.

Address the things I said to Bronze.
Except if it's massively scaled, in which case it is in fact a factor. Madara's Limbo could use SS scaled by 1000 times, and Naruto is going to focus on that as his priority. But what happens when the Limbo and Madara decide to use SS, with the real Madara combining it with a PS? It's a stomp.

And TSB takes on two stances, defensive and offensive (per Juubito's own words). This was an offensive TSB, and it was cut by a Juubi Jin Madara's KKG, so it is anything but low level lmao. TSB shield was stopping TBB and Susano arrow without much trouble from a Juubito. This is Madara who is far more powerful as a Shinju jin. He does far more than Obito, and do note, this is only after SS/PS combo is bypassed, in which the TSB shield comprised of 9 Gudo Dama's would have to bypassed, in which case a Preta Path would have to be bypassed. Yea.. Not happening.

Yes he does, as I pointed out to Bronze. Kaguya's jutsu are extremely chakra taxing. She's literaly sending entire location's to different dimensions. She's opening portals which are said to consume immense chakra. Her ash bone clearly contains insane amount of chakra since it destroys anything it touches. Her chakra arms are used casually and destroy PS. All her moves are combining all 5 chakra natures, so clearly chakra taxing. How exactly did you come to the conclusion that Kaguya can be compared to Madara, whose jutsu are not even in the same league in terms of power and chakra consumption?

 

[Omar19992010]

Naruto wins with mid diff, naruto is easily stronger than Madara as shown when he was effortlessly making a fool out of kaguya

Because he was fooling her with clones. Madara can tell clones apart.

 

[Amaterasu]

Madara wins mid diff

 

[Bronze]

Apex, I wasn't disagreeing with you; I was agreeing with the implication. I simply questioned his reasoning on his conclusion, which from the looks of it is fallacy. I'll rep you for the effort.

 

[QdonEms]

Naruto loses plain and simple....if you go by feats he wins but if you go by RSM Vs Unnerfed JJ Madara(w/ all rinnegan techs, Susanoo, and Edo and EMS feats) Then madara shits low-mid diff.

 

[Apêx1]

Apex, I wasn't disagreeing with you; I was agreeing with the implication. I simply questioned his reasoning on his conclusion, which from the looks of it is fallacy. I'll rep you for the effort.

Oh I see, my bad. I was under the assumption that proving fan-fiction was sarcasm.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

Madara imo