[Discussion] The Marines Are UNBEATABLE(Complete Analysis)

[shon93]

I've really been thinking about the events shown at MF and what has happened even currently and I have come to the conclussion that the WG is unbeatable by a single faction in OP. Before you guys come at me let me explain myself...lol lets look at the ending of MF

SenGoku-100% healthy
Garp-100% healthy
Akainu-20% healthy
Aokiji-95% healthy
Kizaru-100% healthy

If we look at those stats we can come to the conclussion the Marines are unbeatable because WB didnt manage to kill not one marine. Is he capable of killing Admirals? Yes but he would be hurt in the process by killing one and he cant kill a second right after that.

If we look at the beloved "Marco The Phoenix"These dudes wasnt enough to make and admiral sweat.

1)Marco landed a direct hit on Kizaru and Kizaru got right back up like it wasnt shit
2)Jozu landed a sneak attack on Aokiji and he was fine right after and it was a direct hit
3)Marco and Vista attacked Akainu together with Haki laced attacks and he didnt do shit and please keep in mind that this was after Akainu took the island splitter from WB
4)The WB commanders ganged up on an injured Akainu and could barely keep him back

I personally feel even 2 yonkos would not be enough to wipe the Marines of the map. Nor could the revolutionary army. Given that Sabo the number 2 couldnt hurt an admiral. We really have to think about how strong the Marines are not only as a unit by individually. Also I personally feel the Red Hair Pirates would have lost at MF. But the damage on the island prevented that

"The only man to ever put down an admiral was a yonko"-Shon93

I think that speaks volumes to the Marines strength. Sure you have commanders that can tussle for a long time. But the bottomline is "The Admirals Will never lose to underlings" of the powerhouses. The powerhouses that stand at the top of there respective group in my opinion is the only ones capable of beating admirals.

My problem with OP or MF?

I feel like clashes in OP are mean't to mislead fans and to put this idea into fans head that the admirals actually stand a chance of losing when he know damn well that underling cant beat admirals. I dont feel like an underling can hit Akainu with anything stronger than WB did and a motivated island splitter still could put down an admiral...lol(I hope you guys see where I'm coming from with this). Keep in mind I have factored in WB sickness already and the shots he took beforehand

Aboloshing the Term Admiral level and Yonko level

I have read OP and I have gotten a feel for how Oda thinks. There is no admiral and yonko level in Odas book there is simply Top Tier or Not Tier. The admirals and the yonkos are top tiers so they should be around the same level if u ask me. I no this will cause a shit storm but it makes sense. Even if we look at MF none of the admirals were scared to take on WB. I mean there whole demeanor didnt change from standing in front of WB

I personally think the yonkos are slightly stronger but it is not enough for there to be a tier difference. I personally feel the yonkos have to be slightly stronger for there to be balance in the OP world because the Marines have all these forces and they have 4 admirals to combat a yonko. So a yonko should be slightly superior where it can cause the Gorosei to slightly sweat and make OP more enjoyable

Another great example if we consider Mihawk to be a top tier he should be on the same level as the admirals and the yonkos considering the WGS has to be Top Tier. Dragon should be consider Top Tier considering he is the father of the main character the son of Garp and he has an army following him

Looking at it from a totally different perspective

When I say the marines are unbeatable I mean when they are together and they can prepare. As opposed to scatted all around the world an easier to pick off piece by piece. It was practically like they hit the lotto where they could have all there forces together in OP place for WB. I dont think that will be the same case for someone like Dragon. Who has to pick them off one by one

SideNote: Look ifI could be completely wrong if we see Kaido or Shanks destroy an admiral mid diff and we see these guys 1st mate kill admirals. But I have a gut feeling that the gap between the admirals are hardly noticeable but a slight gap do exist for the sake of balance.

If u disagree with ceratain stuff lets debate on it. But keep in mind this is coming from a guy who have completely done a 180 in his thought process. I use to think yonkos was vastly superior to admirals but I have been thinking alot about lately or maybe overthinking :yaaa:. And i feel we have severly underestimated not only the power of a admiral but the power of a Top Tier in general because thats how I believe Oda views yonkos and admirals. This thread didnt even factor in the WG so keep that in mind

 

[Shanks]

every one of them will lose in final war against the pirate .

 

[3MESSIAH]

what`s your top 10 most powerful OP characters?

 

[The Sach]

what`s your top 10 most powerful OP characters?

^This, I am interested as well.

 

[shon93]

what`s your top 10 most powerful OP characters?

1.Dragon
2.Shanks
3.Kaido
4.Blackbeard
5.Big Mom
6.Kong
7.Akainu
8.Mihawk
9.Aokiji
10.Fujitora/Kizaru

In my Top 10 all of the characters are in the same tier and that's "Top Tier" these characters need a Hugh level of difficulty to put one another down. I don't feel like there is a Tier difference between admiral and yonkos...but the yonkos are slightly stronger if that and I explained my reason why. I could be completely Wong if Kaido or a yonko destroys Kizaru or Fuji mid diff but that won't happen

 

[tentailed]

You just wait till the end. SHC will take down the marine and world government and yonkous and a long list to go...

 

[giostep]

Man...this is funny.
Duffy in no way was afraid to fight Isso. But was frightened to fight Kaido, don't you think that says something for the strength of Kaido? Along with that Big mom subordinate took out an island solo, and it doesn't seem like he had and issues and he doesn't seem to hAve a DF (he might but it doesn't look like it atm) also during the MF battle BB and his team were taking hits from Sengoku without a problem, but there were afraid of WB assault. I'm not saying g that these things mean that they can or will slaughter the Admirals but it means something and these sort of sign shouldnt just be shrugged of. Duffy has more fear of Kaido then he does for any of the Admirals...

 

[shon93]

Man...this is funny.
Duffy in no way was afraid to fight Isso. But was frightened to fight Kaido, don't you think that ,ears something for the strength of Kaido? Along with that Big mom subordinate took out an island solo, and it doesn't seem like he had and issues and he doesn't seem to hAve a DF (he might but it doesn't look like it atm) also during the MS battle BB and his team were taking hits from Sengoku without a problem, but there were afraid of WB assault. I'm not saying g that these things mean that they can or will slaughter the Admirals but it means something and these sort of signo should just be shrugged of. Duffy has more fear of Kaido then he does for any of the Admirals...

As a matter of fact Doffy fears Kaido more than he fears any yonko.qaht does that say? It not only speaks of Kaidos strengthn but his personality Kaido seems irrational and cruel in my opinion

U mean BOBBIN and any strong character can take out an island full of helpless civilians and burn it down that doesn't mean he can beat an admiral.

You say what i saidpd is funny but u can't debunk it

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

The Marines are supposed to be a match for the Four Yonkou (combined). I thought this was obvious based on the fact the Admirals + Fleet Admiral are all on the same tier as the Yonkou and the sheer number of Vice Admirals would make up for the stronger subordinates of the Yonkou

 

[shon93]

The Marines are supposed to be a match for the Four Yonkou (combined). I thought this was obvious based on the fact the Admirals + Fleet Admiral are all on the same tier as the Yonkou and the sheer number of Vice Admirals would make up for the stronger subordinates of the Yonkou

The reason I made this thread because people have this idea in there head that yonkos can destroy admirals and are in a different tier and I was one of those people in the past. But if we look at MF and really move the biase aside the admirals were not even scared of WB and he was considered the World Strongest Man. They matched him on multiple occasions and never stayed down when fighting him

Let use use an example if people say a yonko is a tier stronger than an admiral then that means Kaido can mid diff an admiral...and if someone really believes that they are an idiot

 

[chopstickchakra]

Right now that may be the case but it seems certain that EoS SH and their allies will take them out. If Garp lives to see the day Luffy fully revolts, not just tries to save his brother, I think we'll see Luffy KO his grand-dad. I know the SH's wouldn't have done much at MF but I think Zoro and Sanji and Usopp and Franky and Robin will all play a big part in fighting the Marine VA's and up. Nami Chopper and Brook will be there to handle the grunts.

2 Yonko if they can act together the whole time would have won the MF war, think about it, WB's crew was as big as the Marines there and WB hadn't attacked before being injured and still beat everyone besides the higher ups. If we can assume most Yonko have relatively = sized crews than 2 yonkos would outnumber the Marines 2 to 1 and they have the likes of Shanks crew.

I don't think that 1 v 1 any admiral could have beat WB it would have had to be Garp or Sengoku. Same goes for Shanks because of hype.

Here's a question though, Sengoku's DF is a giant golden Buddah and we saw Enel melt gold with his electric, what stops Enel from melting the highest ranking Marine?

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

The reason I made this thread because people have this idea in there head that yonkos can destroy admirals and are in a different tier and I was one of those people in the past. But if we look at MF and really move the biase aside the admirals were not even scared of WB and he was considered the World Strongest Man. They matched him on multiple occasions and never stayed down when fighting him

Let use use an example if people say a yonko is a tier stronger than an admiral then that means Kaido can mid diff an admiral...and if someone really believes that they are an idiot

To be honest I'd say:
Kaidou and Shanks > Admirals
BM = Admirals
BB < Admirals

To be a tier above is to High-Diff, not mid diff, which is why WB and Roger are the only characters in a tier above the Admirals

 

[Olorin]

I've suggested a few times that even if shanks teamed up with WB they would still lose rather easily ... It was not well received ... Let's bjust saybthere was name calling :/

I think, and Ive said it before, that it would take for every powerful pirate crew there is to team up to at most have a 50% chance of victory against the World government, people severely underestimate the Admirals and they arent the only fighters of the WG

Yes there is probably a stand out Admiral (atm Akainu) and a stand out Pirate (like Roger was) but I think every Admiral could push roger/garp/edward to at least very high dif

Akainu (the marine) is, together with Shanks (the pirate) and Dragon (the revolutionary) the top of OP "top tier" atm, but that doesnt mean someone like Kizaru would just simply lose against them

I dont think Roger was the single strongest character of that generation and I dont think Luffy will be the single strongest character of this generatio

Imo Roger had at least 3 (what I would call) equals: Garp, Whitebeard and Sengoku

What do I mean by equals: think Luffy and Lucci, a battle between any 2 of them could go either way and if Roger teiumphed over, say, WB it was because he's Roger or to put it another way, because of plot

Many ppl put Roger above everyone else, but I personally do not want a clear cut power scale with a definite no.1, leave stuff like that for series like Naruto

Who else do I think it in the same league as these guys? Atm that would prob be Dragon, Shanks and very likely Akainu (he IS the FA!)

And Luffy will need an eos enemy (most likely even 2), so that means Blackbeard will get there eventually and we will still need an enemy from the WG and I dont think it will be smoker, I personally (at this point in the story) think it will be Akainu

I think ppl want too see too many cookie cutter parallels everywhere they look, there are similarities but ... mah you get it

There are also a few other characters in the top tier of Op and each of them could give any of the above mentioned a run for their money

And before ppl start accusing me of being a Garp or Shanks or Dragon or Akainu or whoever fanboy let me just say that my fav chatacter is in fact Luffy

Sorry if the post turned uot to be unreadable, phone

 

[shon93]

I've suggested a few times that even if shanks teamed up with WB they would still lose rather easily ... It was not well received ... Let's bjust saybthere was name calling :/

I think, and Ive said it before, that it would take for every powerful pirate crew there is to team up to at most have a 50% chance of victory against the World government, people severely underestimate the Admirals and they arent the only fighters of the WG

Yes there is probably a stand out Admiral (atm Akainu) and a stand out Pirate (like Roger was) but I think every Admiral could push roger/garp/edward to at least very high dif

Akainu (the marine) is, together with Shanks (the pirate) and Dragon (the revolutionary) the top of OP "top tier" atm, but that doesnt mean someone like Kizaru would just simply lose against them



Sorry if the post turned uot to be unreadable, phone

This man gets it

 

[chopstickchakra]

I've suggested a few times that even if shanks teamed up with WB they would still lose rather easily ... It was not well received ... Let's bjust saybthere was name calling :/

I think, and Ive said it before, that it would take for every powerful pirate crew there is to team up to at most have a 50% chance of victory against the World government, people severely underestimate the Admirals and they arent the only fighters of the WG

Yes there is probably a stand out Admiral (atm Akainu) and a stand out Pirate (like Roger was) but I think every Admiral could push roger/garp/edward to at least very high dif

Akainu (the marine) is, together with Shanks (the pirate) and Dragon (the revolutionary) the top of OP "top tier" atm, but that doesnt mean someone like Kizaru would just simply lose against them



Sorry if the post turned uot to be unreadable, phone

IF every admiral was strong enough that they could have pushed Roger to high diff 1v1 then why was he never caught? Why was it said that Garp was his only equal and WB was his closest rival?

 

[Olorin]

IF every admiral was strong enough that they could have pushed Roger to high diff 1v1 then why was he never caught? Why was it said that Garp was his only equal and WB was his closest rival?

the whole western world was after Bin Laden :/

also no matter how strong you are you can still sustain heavy casualties (more than you can afford to) fighting against someone weaker than you, OP example: Marineford, IRL example: Vietnam War, an outright war with someone as strong as a yonko (and his/her crew) isn't a simple thing

so waht if only Garp and Whitebeard are mentioned? does that mean he walks over everyone else? everyone who read MF knows how Newgate did against Akainu and the other 2 admirals aren't far behind (if at all) same for Sengoku, he was teh FA so he's teh second marine who should have been to compete with Roger and Newgate

 

[giostep]

Here is the issue that I had when first reading earlier. When you say unbeatable, its a definitive word. For the WG to be "unbeatable" they would have to have the ability to take on ALL of the Yonko along with the Supernovas (i say these people because they are easily recognizable). Considering that it took a sick and wounded WB to take Akainu to "20%" as you stated, what would a full health WB have done? I don't think that if the WG was bombarded by ALL Yonko along with ALL Supernovas, and their respective crews, that they would win; Truth is that I dont think the Yonkos would even need help from the current supernova to win. Thus making them beatable. Also if anyone says that a Yonko is going to mid diff 1 or more Admirals they shouldnt be taken seriously.

 

[NarutoBmx33]

Here's how I look at it.
The last generation of pirates and Marines had an unclear line of 'who's stronger than the other'.
Like Algalon said, Roger wasn't the single most strongest person during his time. He had enemies very equal to his strength who could put him in deadly situations. These equals were among the pirates and Marines.
But I think the next generation, Luffy/Law/Kidd, etc. will create a more clear line between themselves and the Marines.

 

[Olorin]

Oh yea I forgot to mention I think Akainu had more than 20% left given how every porate (including the commanders) fled from him

Here's how I look at it.
The last generation of pirates and Marines had an unclear line of 'who's stronger than the other'.
Like Algalon said, Roger wasn't the single most strongest person during his time. He had enemies very equal to his strength who could put him in deadly situations. These equals were among the pirates and Marines.
But I think the next generation, Luffy/Law/Kidd, etc. will create a more clear line between themselves and the Marines.

Well first off I don't think Kidd will or can wind up on the same team as Luffy at the end
Second, why would there be a clearer line? The WG is the (most likely) final enemy in the end war, they need people to challange Luffy and his allies, to push them to the extreme and not only Luffy also Zoro, Sanji, Dragon, Sabo and likely even people like Kuzan and Law ... and all the other allies

I've been wondering for quite some time if the WG would be willing to ally themselves with Teach

 

[shon93]

Here is the issue that I had when first reading earlier. When you say unbeatable, its a definitive word. For the WG to be "unbeatable" they would have to have the ability to take on ALL of the Yonko along with the Supernovas (i say these people because they are easily recognizable). Considering that it took a sick and wounded WB to take Akainu to "20%" as you stated, what would a full health WB have done? I don't think that if the WG was bombarded by ALL Yonko along with ALL Supernovas, and their respective crews, that they would win; Truth is that I dont think the Yonkos would even need help from the current supernova to win. Thus making them beatable. Also if anyone says that a Yonko is going to mid diff 1 or more Admirals they shouldnt be taken seriously.

I guess I shouldn't be taking serious because no top tier in mid sitting another top tier..despite all the stuff u said about WB health he was still not the weakest yonko and also known as the world strongest man and he in my opinion high diffed and admiral with extreme diff../what makes u think Kaido..Big Mom or Shanks can do any better

And I never said 4 yonkos can't beat the WG if u read inside my post instead of the title...I said 2 yonkos together would still lose