[Discussion] why not sanji?

[A v i]

No, that's kind of exactly what it means. Akainu was surprised by the blow while it was striking him. He wasn't surprised by their attack when he saw it coming, he was surprised by their attack while it was already making contact. So yeah, pretty unlikely he had Haki prepared.

You can still defend yourself even when you are still under the effect of surprise. Once again your excuses doesn't explain why he received no damage. It's extremely unlikely to think he received no damage even though Wb commanders are giving their best. I admit that they are weak willed and their attacks might have gotten weaker but there is no way in hell for them to turn 0 and the fact that Akainu commented on their haki proves that they are in good shape but they still failed so only logical answer is that he defended himself from them.

Not necessarily. Someone yelling at Jinbei could be any fodder pirate simply telling Jinbei to get down in order to avoid being attacked. Hearing "Jinbei get down!" while he's attacking Jinbei isn't gonna send "Oh I'm being attacked" to Akainu's head right away.

Says you.

I didn't said that he'd assume that he will get attacked because of the sound. When he shouted at Jimbe, Akainu has enough time to look at them and realize that he's being targeted.

o rlly

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He countered 2 attacks of Joker before that. And don't overlook the fact that it took Real Joker and Dark Knight(Which is strong enough to hold it's own against Law) to do that to Luffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can still defend yourself even when you are still under the effect of surprise. Once again your excuses doesn't explain why he received no damage. It's extremely unlikely to think he received no damage even though Wb commanders are giving their best. I admit that they are weak willed and their attacks might have gotten weaker but there is no way in hell for them to turn 0 and the fact that Akainu commented on their haki proves that they are in good shape but they still failed so only logical answer is that he defended himself from them.




I didn't said that he'd assume that he will get attacked because of the sound. When he shouted at Jimbe, Akainu has enough time to look at them and realize that he's being targeted.

Yes, but you can't defend yourself from an attack that you become aware of only once it's already struck you. That's like someone shooting at you, but you only become aware of the gunshot once the bullet is in your chest.

Too bad that's not what happened.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

You are implying that Akainu would have melted his swords if he use haki while attacking coby. But Sakazuki used haki against Vista and Marco yet his Magma failed to melt Vista's swords. Vista is weaker than Sakazuki and Sakazuki has the back up of his magma as well as haki yet failed to melt his swords. Hence ,your haki cancels haki argument has a hole in it.

No. I am implying that Sakazuki can melt swords if either nobody uses Haki or he uses Haki that is superior or roughly equal to his opponents. He cannot melt swords if he doesn't use Haki and Shanks does.

 

[A v i]

Yes, but you can't defend yourself from an attack that you become aware of only once it's already struck you. That's like someone shooting at you, but you only become aware of the gunshot once the bullet is in your chest.

Too bad that's not what happened.

Lets say that someone who's 10M away from u is running towards you with a sword. You'll get surprised the movement you notice him then you'll use your hands to block him/do something to defend yourself but the thing is you'll stay under the effect of surprise even when you are defending yourself. It has started at the movement you noticed him and lasted until you defend yourself. That's what happened in case of Akainu. Once again your post doesn't explain why he did not received any damage.

No. I am implying that Sakazuki can melt swords if either nobody uses Haki or he uses Haki that is superior or roughly equal to his opponents. He cannot melt swords if he doesn't use Haki and Shanks does.

I agree with everything except for the bold part. The gap should be considerably big from what we have seen.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lets say that someone who's 10M away from u is running towards you with a sword. You'll get surprised the movement you notice him then you'll use your hands to block him/do something to defend yourself but the thing is you'll stay under the effect of surprise even when you are defending yourself. It has started at the movement you noticed him and lasted until you defend yourself. That's what happened in case of Akainu. Once again your post doesn't explain why he did not received any damage.



I agree with everything except for the bold part. The gap should be considerably big from what we have seen.

Except that's not what happened. In this scenario, I'm aware of the attack before it hits me, whereas Akainu became aware of the attack after it had struck him. You're just not quite good at grasping that concept. He didn't even realize he was attacked by Haki users until after he received the attacks.

Why Akainu didn't receive damage, we don't know. It's more likely it's because of the emotional dismay of losing Ace weakened/ rattled their wills, affecting their Haki, than Akainu protecting himself with Haki.

Quick question, how big is the gap between Luffy and Doflamingo, in your opinion?

 

[A v i]

Except that's not what happened. In this scenario, I'm aware of the attack before it hits me, whereas Akainu became aware of the attack after it had struck him. You're just not quite good at grasping that concept

No, He has a chance to learn about their attack when Marco shouted at Jimbe. There is noway in hell for him to over look something like this unless you think he can't hear Marco's voice. So ya he was aware of the attack even before they landed a blow on him. That page just shows that he was still under the effect like I have explained before.

This is what happened:

Marco shouted > Akinu noticed them and was surprised > Used haki > They landed blows(Akainu was still inside surprise yo mi effect).

 

[Punk Hazard]

No, He has a chance to learn about their attack when Marco shouted at Jimbe. There is noway in hell for him to over look something like this unless you think he can't hear Marco's voice. So ya he was aware of the attack even before they landed a blow on him. That page just shows that he was still under the effect like I have explained before.

This is what happened:

Marco shouted > Akinu noticed them and was surprised > Used haki > They landed blows(Akainu was still inside surprise yo mi effect).

That's exactly what didn't happen. If he had become surprised when he heard Marco shout, the caption box with "?!" would have been on the page before the page it was actually on, where Marco cried out. Sakazuki wasn't surprised because he noticed them during the shout, he was surprised because he had been attacked. This is what really happened:

Marco cried out>Marco and Vista's attacks land, surprising Akainu>Their attacks aren't effective enough to damage him. There was no effect of surprise by Sakazuki on the page before.

 

[A v i]

Why Akainu didn't receive damage, we don't know. It's more likely it's because of the emotional dismay of losing Ace weakened/ rattled their wills, affecting their Haki, than Akainu protecting himself with Haki.

We don't know is not a good enough reason if you ask me.

Quick question, how big is the gap between Luffy and Doflamingo, in your opinion?

I honestly can't see Luffy beating him in a fair match. Even Luffy and Law at their 100% can't defeat him without plot shit IMO. He's at the very least a level or two above Luffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

We don't know is not a good enough reason if you ask me.




I honestly can't see Luffy beating him in a fair match. Even Luffy and Law at their 100% can't defeat him without plot shit IMO. He's at the very least a level or two above Luffy.

Good thing you aren't the discussion sheriff then. Might not be enough for you, but it still makes your "He protected himself with Haki" thing just as much speculation as my "Their Haki was weakened by their emotional state" thing. Neither are more correct than the other, yours just isn't backed up by what you're saying, as what you're saying isn't true.

 

[A v i]

That's exactly what didn't happen. If he had become surprised when he heard Marco shout, the caption box with "?!" would have been on the page before the page it was actually on, where Marco cried out. Sakazuki wasn't surprised because he noticed them during the shout, he was surprised because he had been attacked. This is what really happened:

Marco cried out>Marco and Vista's attacks land, surprising Akainu>Their attacks aren't effective enough to damage him. There was no effect of surprise by Sakazuki on the page before.

So many things happend b/w those two panels. You can't expect Oda to draw every single panel. Akainu must have noticed them somewhere b/w those to points/panels. Hell Jimbe has enough time to hear their voice and got away before they reach Akainu and you think Akainu wouldn't notice them?

Good thing you aren't the discussion sheriff then. Might not be enough for you, but it still makes your "He protected himself with Haki" thing just as much speculation as my "Their Haki was weakened by their emotional state" thing. Neither are more correct than the other, yours just isn't backed up by what you're saying, as what you're saying isn't true.

Akainu's comment about their haki indicates that their haki was in good shape and the fact that he wasn't damaged also supports the claim of him using haki as defence. I can't remember any panel in which someones attacks getting weaker because of their weak will but we have haki users defending against haki users with their own haki in manga. So my argument is more credible than yours.

 

[bajram]

So, what if it was used on fodders? Does that point helps you to prove that it wasn't a strong attack? Seriously? Lol

I don't get this logic, please tell me how that would make that attack weaker? O_O









In all those cases he witnessed their powers before coming up with those ideas. Even Caesar defeated him when he fought him with 0 knowledge. Yet he countered Joker for the very first time.

AOE =/= stronger attack ? Do u even understand what I wrote dude? I said that the move used against zoro was the same it was used against thugs but with a smaller AOE, explain's how much fuji tried against zoro, in the other hand the attack used on Sabo was a named attack, something he never used before and he still didnt have any killing intent on Sabo, yet that little pesky attack made zoro bleed, why would u call that a good feat, I dont get it?

He never countered joker for the first time, the first time he was overwhelmed by doffy and black knight, while in the second encounter he was able to hit joker via Law, even after the red hawk in the gut luffy still got blitzed and was bind up by Doffys string on his hands, proceding to kick him on the second floor.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So many things happend b/w those two panels. You can't expect Oda to draw every single panel. Akainu must have noticed them somewhere b/w those to points/panels. Hell Jimbe has enough time to hear their voice and got away before they reach Akainu and you think Akainu wouldn't notice them?

Must have? No. Could have? Yes. Did he? Nope.

 

[A v i]

Must have? No. Could have? Yes. Did he? Nope.

He's a top rated fighter and Marco and Vista are behind Jimbe yet he heard them and got away. Akainu was standing in front of Jimbe which means that noticing them is even easier for him than Jimbe. So, it is extremely unlikely to think that he didn't noticed them a near impossible case if you ask me. That's why I said he must have noticed them.

AOE =/= stronger attack ? Do u even understand what I wrote dude? I said that the move used against zoro was the same it was used against thugs but with a smaller AOE, explain's how much fuji tried against zoro, in the other hand the attack used on Sabo was a named attack, something he never used before and he still didnt have any killing intent on Sabo, yet that little pesky attack made zoro bleed, why would u call that a good feat, I dont get it?

Who's trying to say that Fuji was serious?:|

It doesn't matter if he was not serious and it doesn't matter if he wasn't using his best moves. The thing is even fodder attacks of Fujitora are too much for someone of Zoro's level. They may not be stronger attacks for Fujitora but they are for Zoro. Yet he managed to over come it. That's what it makes an impressive feat. A far inferior level of gravity was strong enough to pin down Law who has enough strength to fight with Joker. He couldn't even lift a finger back then yet you think Zoro's feat wasn't impressive?Lol

He never countered joker for the first time, the first time he was overwhelmed by doffy and black knight, while in the second encounter he was able to hit joker via Law, even after the red hawk in the gut luffy still got blitzed and was bind up by Doffys string on his hands, proceding to kick him on the second floor.

Saved Kyros from Joker and dodged another attack then got out smarted by BN and Real Joker.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He's a top rated fighter and Marco and Vista are behind Jimbe yet he heard them and got away. Akainu was standing in front of Jimbe which means that noticing them is even easier for him than Jimbe. So, it is extremely unlikely to think that he didn't noticed them a near impossible case if you ask me. That's why I said he must have noticed them.

You actually don't know for a fact that Marco and Vista were both behind Jinbei. One could have came from the side, both could have. If Sakazuki was aware of their attack, his surpirse would have been shown before the attack landed.

 

[A v i]

You actually don't know for a fact that Marco and Vista were both behind Jinbei. One could have came from the side, both could have. If Sakazuki was aware of their attack, his surpirse would have been shown before the attack landed.

They clearly didn't attacked from sides and I have already told you that Oda can't draw everything in detail and some things such as Jimbe hearing them and getting away have happened b/w those two panels.

 

[Punk Hazard]

They clearly didn't attacked from sides and I have already told you that Oda can't draw everything in detail and some things such as Jimbe hearing them and getting away have happened b/w those two panels.

They could have came from besides Jinbei and Akainu, that's not impossible. Like I said, if Sakazuki was surprised from when they cried out, why'd Oda wait to put the caption box indicating he was surprised not there, but during the attack?

 

[A v i]

They could have came from besides Jinbei and Akainu, that's not impossible.

Didn't said that it was impossible but the panel clearly shows that it was a straight forward attack.

Like I said, if Sakazuki was surprised from when they cried out, why'd Oda wait to put the caption box indicating he was surprised not there, but during the attack?

This is why I have posted that someone running with a sword example. Surprise starts at some point and lasts for a while, At least until you defend yourself and got a hold of your surroundings. That caption box just indicates that he was surprised but it doesn't explain when exactly the surprise was started as the starting point of his surprise (Somewhere b/w Marco's shout and The attack)was off paneled.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Didn't said that it was impossible but the panel clearly shows that it was a straight forward attack.




This is why I have posted that someone running with a sword example. Surprise starts at some point and lasts for a while, At least until you defend yourself and got a hold of your surroundings. That caption box just indicates that he was surprised but it doesn't explain when exactly the surprise was started as the starting point of his surprise (Somewhere b/w Marco's shout and The attack)was off paneled.

Panel doesn't show that at all.
Yeah, and Sakazuki's surprise started at the point where the attacks hit him, hence why it was put there. If it started before, it would have been put on the previous page. Is this Greek to you?

 

[bajram]

Who's trying to say that Fuji was serious?:|

It doesn't matter if he was not serious and it doesn't matter if he wasn't using his best moves. The thing is even fodder attacks of Fujitora are too much for someone of Zoro's level. They may not be stronger attacks for Fujitora but they are for Zoro. Yet he managed to over come it. That's what it makes an impressive feat. A far inferior level of gravity was strong enough to pin down Law who has enough strength to fight with Joker. He couldn't even lift a finger back then yet you think Zoro's feat wasn't impressive?Lol




Saved Kyros from Joker and dodged another attack then got out smarted by BN and Real Joker.

Yet my point still stands, if fujis attacks are too much for someone like zoro, than that is the same case for doflamingo against sanji, from the start I was trying to point out that fujitoras normal attacks are somehow the same as doflas strongest attacks for people like zoro,sanji, so sanji getting wrecked by dofla still doesnt actually make zoro mid diff sanji or whatever zoro fans tend to spout. Im not saying law would be able to overcome fujis gravity but he was tag teamed by both dofla and fuji and was pretty injured before hand.

The point stands that Luffy was overwhelmed by hax in both cases, the same way sanji got beaten by dofla, but as I said if Sanji had intel on dofla, I dont see sanji losing neg diff again.

 

[A v i]

Yet my point still stands, if fujis attacks are too much for someone like zoro, than that is the same case for doflamingo against sanji, from the start I was trying to point out that fujitoras normal attacks are somehow the same as doflas strongest attacks for people like zoro,sanji, so sanji getting wrecked by dofla still doesnt actually make zoro mid diff sanji or whatever zoro fans tend to spout. Im not saying law would be able to overcome fujis gravity but he was tag teamed by both dofla and fuji and was pretty injured before hand.

Their attacks aren't same as Fujitora is stronger than Joker and the thing is Zoro managed to overcome Fujitora' s gravity even though it was a surprise attack where as Sanji failed to counter Joker.

Law wasn't badly injured, you can clearly see that he was perfectly fine when he escaped from his gravity and it was nothing when compared to what he went through against Vergo and Joker.

The point stands that Luffy was overwhelmed by hax in both cases, the same way sanji got beaten by dofla, but as I said if Sanji had intel on dofla, I dont see sanji losing neg diff again.

It doesn't matter, my point still stands as Luffy countered him without any intel before facing him. He did fairly better than Sanji.

Panel doesn't show that at all.
Yeah, and Sakazuki's surprise started at the point where the attacks hit him, hence why it was put there. If it started before, it would have been put on the previous page. Is this Greek to you?

No, the caption box just suggests that he was surprised but it doesn't indicate that it was the starting point unless you think Akainu wasn't paying attention to Marco's voice which doesn't make much sense. As I said before, If Jimbe's reactions are good enough to hear them and get away from his location before Marco and Vista can reach him then it wasn't much of a deal for Akainu to notice them before they can hit him and use haki.