Ghost in the Shell
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Base Jiraiya is better than everyone in the Akatsuki except Tobi, Pain, Itachi, and Kisame. With sage mode, he beats at least 2 out of those 4, perhaps 3.
Jiraiya vs Sasori and Deidara
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super yang
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w/ the exception of sasori(replace kisame with sasori), I wholeheartedly agree w/ your opinion
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Ghost in the Shell
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With the Samehada, I don't think Jiraiya can beat Kisame (base Jiraiya at least). Even without the samehada it's iffy b/c of Daikōdan
I do agree with your implied notion that Sasori would be a good (or bad?) matchup for Kisame, though. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said.
super yang
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No, I was saying that base Jiraiya would have a hard time w/ Sasori, but not Kisame.
however I do thenk sasori can match up well w/ Kisame also
Ghost in the Shell
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How so? Needle Jizō blocks Iron Sand. Wild Lion's Mane cuts off the chakra strings. Gamayu Endan overwhelms all of his puppets, including the Sandaime. Food Cart Destroyer crushes everything he has. Toad Mouth Gourd traps him. I don't think Jiraiya would have too much trouble.
On the other hand, base Jiraiya would have a hard time with Kisame, though. All of his techniques would be either tanked, absorbed by the samehada, healed by the samehada, or countered by Suiton.
super yang
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wow, I think our interpretations are too different to relate here...
Samehada can only absorb chakra, imo
& U seem to have no problem w/ jiraiyas hair defeating sasoris entire flying armada, but it cant disarm a sword?...jus sayin
Ghost in the Shell
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Samehada also heals Kisame (read/watch his match with Killer Bee). I don't think that would work b/c the sanehada would cut off Jiraiya's hair. Besides, Kisame still has Daikōdan
TRE MERCER
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Sound genjutsu isn't useless against Deidara so flight and him gets taken out. Gamabunta easily jumps out of his poison aoe. Deidara bombs get countered by shooting water bullets. Etc.
-Since when can Food Cart Destroyer land directly above an aerial opponent? I'll need some feats of Food Cart Destroyer having such immense range, as well as Jiraiya being able to jump so high. Are you attributing Minato's Food Cart Destroyer to Jiraiya? A teleporter to a normal Shinobi? Doesn't make sense to me, unless you have some feats of 40 meter Food Cart Destroyers+
-Toad Oil Flame Bullet is easily dodged by moving forward. Bunta's body as a toad is only so flexible, he cannot stand on his feet, so the extent of toad oil flame bullet's versatility and direction is dependant on Bunta's neck flexibility. Good thing if Deidara moves forward, he's basically atop of Bunta at that point, meaning outside of any of his attack ranges. And given Manda was capable of shedding his skin and going underground with his entire body before it reached him, I'm sure the likes of a C1 bird faster than Gaara's sand can easily avoid it.
-Raging Lion's Mane is never reaching Deidara; it's too slow. Not to mention, Deidara can take advantage of his hair having to go back to his body and releasing some bombs in his hair
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Once Jiraiya's hair goes back to Jiraiya he's done for. Jiraiya won't even know what hit him.-Rasengan? Didn't know about it's notorious range, but if it hits anyone it'll be hitting a Nendo Bunshin that will end up trapping him instead.
And okay.
-C4 remains uncountered despite his intel on it, he is not fast enough to avoid its range and thus dies.
-C3 remains uncountered given he has no intel on it, obviously has nothing to tank it, and also has nothing to avoid its massive range. 1 shot kill.
-Deidara's fighting style is deceptive. Jiraiya has literally no way of countering C1 attacks that he does not notice. Deidara subtly
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right after he throws a
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which has
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. Since Jiraiya will be too busy distracted by the bird (which he has no counter for), he'll be caught off guard by the centipede which comes from
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. This is basically what happened to Itachi, but on someone with no Sharingan and vastly inferior speed. Meaning once the Centipede has
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(he's probably dead from the C1 explosion), he's done for. Not to mention, that's only one option.
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are another option, that will definitely
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.
Jiraiya closes the gap by summoning Gamabunta who jumps to Deidara's level, then summons a toad on top of Deidara.
Gamabunta can jump while performing the technique.
Jiraiya closes the gap with Gamabunta then attacks Deidara with his hair when he gets in range, or he uses Raging Lion's Mane on the bird itself and has a shadow clone run along the makeshift "bridge" to enter close combat with Deidara.
Jiraiya counters nendo bunshins with kage bunshins, just like Onoki did with a doton bunshin.
Come on man...Sasuke monkey hopped out of its range without effort. If Jiraiya is standing on Bunta's back then a couple leaps puts them outside C4's range.
C3 can only be dropped from above, it can't fly. Meaning Gamabunta jumps out of its blast radius or interrupts C3's prep time by jumping up to Deidara's level.
C1 literally gets tanked by needle jizo. If Jiraiya is at the same range Itachi was, he stomps since Deidara won't even be able to get into the air. Raging Lion's Mane gg...
No. Deidara doesn't watch people come close to him without doing anything. He throws some
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as he did on a immensely faster character from a far shorter range or reaction time. Bunta is blasted out of the sky pretty easily in that way.While performing it? Highly doubtable, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he can. Doesn't matter since Deidara's C1 sends him back to the ground at a rapid pace.
And that can easily be a Nendo Bunshin he catches. Put some clay into his hair and the clay insects find themselves to Jiraiya and eventually kill him. Not to mention, if the Deidara Nendo Bunshin is caught, the real Deidara can jump off the C1 bird and make a new one like he did vs Gaara, whilst having the prior C1 bird fly into Bunta and Jiraiya to kill the both of them. Though I don't get the bridge part, are you trying to tell me Bunta flies? Lol
But Onoki still ended up hitting the Nendo Bunshin and being immobilised by it. Doesn't matter though, Nendo Bunshin's are only used as deceptions, so they would never actually go toe to toe with Kage Bunshin's in such a way.
Sasuke is a speedster, Jiraiya is not. Sasuke knew the range of C4 and left it. Jiraiya would not be able to do that even with Bunta (unless you are suggesting Deidara watches him leave the C4 without doing anything, after all, Jiraiya has no genjutsu).
C3 is triggered by choice. It doesn't explode upon contact with something, nor is anyone dodging its village destroying blast radius. That means there's no escape for Bunta, since Deidara can have it detonate the moment Bunta has reached such an altitude. Not to mention, Deidara can always kill Bunta and then use C3.
What the hell? This is 50 meter starting distance compared to the 5 meter starting distance with Itachi.. I genuinely doubt even you believed your own words in that sentence. And Lol, C1 is tanked by Needle Jizo? Feats of Needle Jizo's durability? Reasons why Needle Jizo wouldn't light on fire? Raging Lion Mane will do something to a speedster fast enough to dodge a
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from several people and also get out of
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way? You severely underestimate Deidara and his 4.5 DB speed. Then again giving me such a small counter to my whole strategy shows it goes uncountered.
TRE MERCER
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. Sasuke literally monkey hopped on to his sword and jumped up to Deidara's dragon and cut off its wing, then pinned him down with rigged shuriken without Deidara doing shit, and you're telling me Gamabunta (who possesses far greater leaping power than Sasuke) isn't going to close the gap? Fail with C1, Gamabunta literally
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that shit, seeing as how Deidara was at almost point-blank and the blast radius was still too small for him to be caught in it. Anything more than C1 takes prep time which Deidara doesn't have if there's a massive toad leaping at him. Bunta would already be summoned at this point since Jiraiya can summon him while Deidara is prepping his bird and taking to the skies, which I'm assuming you want Deidara to do right off the bat.Not sure why you think Bunta can't spit oil from his mouth while he jumps. And no, it doesn't.
It won't be a nendo bunshin unless Deidara somehow finds the time to make one while Gamabunta is attacking him. Deidara isn't going to be able to jump off his bird, form clay lice to run into Jiraiya's hair, and form another bird in the time Gamabunta takes to reach his level. The bird isn't suicide bombing Jiraiya when Raging Lion's Mane is restraining it and holding it at a distance.
But it didn't matter in the end anyway because it wasn't actually Onoki it was just a rock clone.
Gamabunta crosses
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distance in a leap and you say Jiraiya can't escape the aoe because "sasuke is a speedster and jiraiya is not"? Jiraiya is not going to just stand there and watch the giant Deidara be formed, he is going to tell Bunta to get the f**k out of there. OP gave Jiraiya intel on C4 so this isn't even debatable. What is Deidara even going to do to stop Jiraiya, with Bunta already hopping away and him still forming the giant Deidara?"Village busting radius." U srs? C3's blast radius is quite
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. We can clearly see it would have destroyed
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I never claimed C3 was triggered by anything but Deidara's choice but the fact remains it's not mobile and can't fly like his other clay creations so it can only be dropped straight down which allows Bunta to leap out of the blast radius, though with C3's required prep time it's doubtful Deidara will even get to that stage.Exactly, this is a 50 meter starting distance yet you referenced Deidara's strategy against Itachi and claimed he could execute it the same way at this distance. Changed my mind about needle Jizo tanking C1 actually. Deidara isn't a "speedster" but it doesn't matter if he was anyway since Gamabunta would easily nail him with rapid-fire water bullets, or leap and blast him with Toad Oil Flame Bullet. This is assuming Deidara even gets in the air.
I'm not underestimating anything and I don't care about Deidara's databook speed because it's irrelevant. If anyone is underrating a character it's you since you think either Deidara or Sasori could solo him and you think Gaara beats Jiraiya even if he starts in Sage Mode. I gave you a small counter since it doesn't take many words to counter your arguments and I don't see any point in making my reply unnecessarily long. I won't reply unless I actually see a solid argument in your next post.
Edit: Lol I didn't even see that Sage Mode wasn't restricted, I was making an argument for base Jiraiya this entire time.
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That's because Deidara thought he was outside of Sasuke's range. Sasuke merely surprised Deidara by jumping on his sword to gain more range. And do note, a 6 meter blitz is not even comparable to a 40 meter non-surprised attack. They don't even begin to compare. And was that scan supposed to prove something?.. Bunta was heavily damaged and said himself it hurt. How is Deidara's C1 which produces massive heat going to be tanked by him? That literally makes no sense whatsoever. And you once again, fail to interpret scans. Deidara was capable of running away from the explosion with his speed, as was Sasuke. And if you really think 10 cm is
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blast radius, then I have nothing to say to you. Either way, Deidara can opt for an explosion like this one [
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], which most definitely isn't being dodged or tanked. Either way, you need to realise Bunta is not protecting Jiraiya in any way from the explosions. So Jiraiya would suffer lethal damage while Bunta would be decently damaged.Yes, it definitely does.
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.
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flips over
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.
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Neji's Byakugan allowed him to realise even the likes of him, Gai and Lee
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Please.. Stop with this nonsense, C1 is not being tanked or brushed off when Nendo explosion was
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, and has immense speed and power feats that I just showed. And just for some perspective on a small variant's explosion against the Sanbi [
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] compared to a normal sized person next to it. Let Bunta spit oil while mid-air, it matters naught, because Manda dodged it meaning Deidara will too.What? The Nendo Bunshin is created near instantly, as obvious since sharingan users do not notice it's substitution with Deidara. Thus Jiraiya catches Bunshin Deidara, who puts clay into Jiraiya's hair and has it explode all the while Deidara is making his own C1. And either way, I was merely giving choices for you to answer to, all that is actually required is the Nendo Bunshin that will fool Jiraiya and the real Deidara jumping off the C1 and making his own. At that point Jiraiya's lost, because he cannot avoid the C1 that's about to blow up in his face. And Lol........... Jiraiya's hair is holding the C1 from a distance matters because? Once it explodes, his hair will light on fire, and fire travels, so it'll kill him (eventually).
Fair enough.
Hmm.. Fair enough. However, once Bunta is dead this tactic is no longer viable.
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is rather comparable to what Bunta leaped, and C3 is far larger. And lol, yea it's not village buster, was using DB terminology to hyperbolise its power. Either way, C3 would need right timing, and the best timing would be when Bunta fails to hit Deidara in mid-air, and is landing back to the ground by free fall and cannot control his movement in the air. Bunta would be guaranteed death, no doubt.50 meters and Deidara isn't getting into the air? Lol.. Deidara makes his bird as fast as Bunta is summoned. Deidara takes flight and Bunta is not jumping yet, since Jiraiya has to command him to. Deidara is faster than Bunta in every imaginable way, so he's never being touched by Bunta. He was faster than Jinchuriki Gaara's sand=faster than Bunta by a long run. Water Bullets speed feats are lacking. Toad Oil Flame Bullet speed is certainly lacking. And the tactic stands at any distance. He throws an explosion and Jiraiya won't see regardless of distance, then centipede goes underground and catches Jiraiya off guard from beneath. What's so hard to understand?
Yes, because Gaara is stronger than you make him out to be. Do whatever you want to, the overrating of Bunta is real.
There's no point in trying, Deidara nails Jiraiya terribly if he attempts SM.