It's really not hard to see why he can't handle 6 Bijuu + gedo Mazo while being under a threat he has no knowledge about (Kamui). Assuming that clones come into play so early in the fight, they will be too busy handling the multiple bijuu (if they can that is) while Obito Kamuis the original. And lol, EMS Madara off screened the wood shits without kyuubi and perfect susano (highly suggested), are you now going to claim that ems Madara without kyuubi and Perfect susano (if not used) > Obito?
And why would Obito be able to Kamui the original if the original isn't distracted in any way, shape or form? Lol. How do clones being busy means that the
It's highly suggested he took out constructs he needed the Kyuubi and Susanoo to combat, without his Susanoo or the Kyuubi? Is this some kind of joke?
It is relevant, Kakashi and Gai weren't apart of the battle, but Hashirama is. Obito has knowledge on Hashirama and his wood clone tactics, so he's at least prepared.
And how does this change the fact that multiple targets can replicate the same thing, hitting Obito to prevent him from warping anyone? Oh wait, it doesn't.
I meant when Obito Kamuis into his dimension, his chakra becomes untraceable, even to a SM user such as Hashirama.
His clones durability depends on the chakra he gives them, but they will generally be of lower durability level than the original Hashirama. He needs to expend much chakra to combat the 6 bijuus of course.
Madara needed to stab him right through the mid section to kill it, that's an injury that'd kill the original, so you are only proving my point here.
^
And even then it can be interpreted that giving the wood clones more chakra increases their battle prowess, but not their durability per say. But w/e, we might be pulling at straws here.
You say it's too slow. Lol. Obito is tangible while he's warping. It's not any slower than explosive tags yet Konan hit Obito with those while he was warping her.
Obito can kamui a Minato who is prepared to use ftg with one touch, and if push comes to shove Obito is fast enough to go to ghost mode and disappears again.
Hashirama does not have the toad SM. They are not alike. Just like how Naruto does not get Kabuto's abilities in his SM. They are simply different. Hashirama has no feats of sensing anything.
Based on what? With Sage Mode, Madara reacted to FTG twice. Minato was caught by the God Tree and drained, while Hashirama dodged the branches without even looking at them. And this was KCM Minato.
Madara had the Juubi when he countered Minato in addition to SM, and his own abilities.
Minato and Naruto were fighting Obito directly. Hashirama was no where as near as them to obito. Lol
Minato's reflexes are way beyond Hashirama's level, that's obvious.
With Sage Mode, Hashirama will know Obito is behind him the second he materializes, and easily react to him. Not to mention, I'm not even sure if Minato actually sensed him, he could have just felt his presence.
Naruto, who's in completely different level to Hashirama in term of sensing (mind you Hashirama does not have any sensing feats to begin with) needed Kakashi to tell him that Obito was in top of him.
Again, that's not happening with a Sage Mode user. Hashirama would overwhelm Obito with increased reflexes, sensing, reaction time,
Can you put panels of those for Hashirama?
Because Naruto is not Hashirama, nor is Hashirama using the frogs SM either. Unless you believe Naruto can close his eyes, use DNAs, and give life to a cave like Kabuto because "SM".
Obito's versatility was off the charts considering he had been trained by Madara, but SM Hashirama being on par (slightly above) Madara would end up besting Obito in CQC.
Even Gai who's several tiers above Hashirama couldn't touch Obito with massive help. And he was using the gates.
All irrelevant..you think Obito can surprise Hashirama in SM because other sensors have been surprised, but that won't be the case with Sage Mode sensing.
[=KidGamer65;18132269]
No one ever said he can't react. The only reason clones weren't an issue is because KCM Naruto only used one clone, and Obito was able to destroy it with his Gunbai. He can't destroy Mokuton clones with his Gunbai, and SM Hashirama reflexes and CQC ability>KCM Naruto's. So no, that doesn't negate any argument.
Agreed, tell em brah! It's exactly what I said in my last wallie. Madara off paneled many of Hashiramas "jutsus" that people have said would end Obito without Kyuubi.
Not sure if you're serious. All perfect Sage Mode grants sensing due to manipulating Sage Mode energy. Kabuto isn't a perfect sage.
Madara had the Juubi when he countered Minato in addition to SM, and his own abilities.
Minato and Naruto were fighting Obito directly. Hashirama was no where as near as them to obito. Lol
Minato's reflexes are way beyond Hashirama's level, that's obvious.
Naruto wasn't in Sage mode, he was in KCM Mode. Naruto only entered Sage Mode in KCM Mode so that he could sense the Raikage's nukite chakra, so that's why Naruto couldn't sense.
mind you Hashirama does not have any sensing feats to begin with)
He sensed Kurama's chakra in Naruto and said it was comparable to his own......
Can you put panels of those for Hashirama?
Because Naruto is not Hashirama, nor is Hashirama using the frogs SM either. Unless you believe Naruto can close his eyes, use DNAs, and give life to a cave like Kabuto because "SM".
=DemonSenju;18136574]Not sure if you're serious. All perfect Sage Mode grants sensing due to manipulating Sage Mode energy. Kabuto isn't a perfect sage.
- Good, so you will not have terrible finding Hashirama's sensing feats. Because Jiraiya was not able to sense by himself either.
- Kabuto IS a perfect SM user. I don't know from where you got the impression that he is not.
Madara countering Minato was never mentioned. I said Madara countered Tobirama's FTG with Sage Mode, which he did, twice.
Tobirama's FTG & shunshin are in a lower level. Also, that same madara defeated Hashirama right away, and stabbed him with 6 of the block rods, so yeah, he was superior to Hashirama, and as such his feats can't be given to Hashirama. Not to mention it was not mentioned that he countered him with SM, Kishi focused on the Rinnegan. Lol
Naruto wasn't in Sage mode, he was in KCM Mode. Naruto only entered Sage Mode in KCM Mode so that he could sense the Raikage's nukite chakra, so that's why Naruto couldn't sense.
Naruto IS a sensor in KCM as well. He sensed his father's chakra while in that mode. Actually he was stated to be better than the sensors when he could tell that Kisame was hiding in his sword.
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Tobirama : I'm better at sensing than you. Do the math.
So be it. So how do you know how good Hashirama is? All we know is he's terrible at it. How does that determine
that he can tell and react to Obito? When both Karin and Minato who are better than him only noticed that after a while?
He sensed Kurama's chakra in Naruto and said it was comparable to his own......
Lol
That is not sensing. Naruto was rising his chakra in front of him, and Naruto's chakra can be sensed even for those who are not sensors like Oro, Sasuke, and the Taka.
Lol Sage Mode has different properties, but sensing, speed, strength, and reflexes are all improved. This is obvious to anyone who read the manga.
Really? Maybe you can then prove that. Because what I saw is when Naruto fell on the rocks he was not damaged at all. However, Sasuke was able to cut through Madara's arm even though he had SM. Also, Naruto was able to destroy the block rods when pain used them against him. Something Hashirama couldn't do. How do you explain that?
When Naruto used his Rassengan, he damaged Obito. On the other hand, Hashirama's gates couldn't do anything to Obito. As for the sensing, Jiraiya, who was using SM, was not able to sense Pain behind him, and he was using the barrier for sensing. How do you explain that?
Thing is, Hashirama has no feats at all, and you gave him Naruto's feats who is one of the best sensors in the manga, if not the best. Giving him such feats is based on what exactly when he just know that he is not even a good sensor, and hasn't shown any feats with it?
Why not give him Naruto's sensing after the Hago's power while at it? Since both are SM?!
Gai doesn't have Sage Mode and Obito was on the defensive against a base gai.
He does not, but he attacked from Obito's back with the gates on, yet he couldn't hit Obito. Lol
As for the battle, Obito was against all 4 of them, not Gai alone. Lol
Yet you're still not factoring in the GM & bijuu who can tear the forest apart while obito hides, hell he can just stay intangible & let the bijuu blow the forest up until his limit is up. Point is he can continuously go back to his dimension to reset his limit, so the only thing that FTW does is waste everyone's time.
its clearly being used after the bijuus are taken care off from myojinmon/mokuryu and kakuan nitten suishu combo
None of that takes care of the bijuu as I have already went over. Myojinmon isn't pinning all the bijuu down simultaneously [at the exact same time], once a gate falls, obito takes notice & reverts his bijuu to base [
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], then while the others are getting pinned he takes that previous bijuu that was pinned & spams tbbs with it. As long as obito can use the GM to suck up the bijuu & as long as the bijuu can continuously revert to smaller forms then myojinmon is utterly useless in this fight.
& Mokuryuu got stomped by a
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in canon, same thing happens here.
Mokujin is the only mokuton construct with feats of actually catching a bijuudama, but it gets barraged from all directions should hashi try to use that as well [thus rendering kakuan nitten suishu useless].
It does the opposite, as shown when madara used his katons to increase its effects
inside the pollen so they couldn't fly back out, fire burns wood & so the forest will be destroyed if obito uses a massive katon to cover it. Not to mention in that same scan madara said "what about making some coal?", burned wood creates charcoal & so the manga supports my statement.
not to mention that it failed to go through v1 chakra cloak, when jukai kotan (which has a size comparable to FTW) alone needed several rasengans to take it out
Oh my goodness this is a completely invalid comparison to make, the only reason why naruto needed a bunch of rasengans was because the forest itself was large & consisted of a bunch of mokuton, they were all still simple base rasengans. We already know what a rasengan alone
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, & using more doesn't = more power, but rather it covers a larger area.
Your logic with this comparison is suggesting two things, 1] that naruto can stop a katon with a bunch of rasengans, & 2] that a single rasengan can go through a v1 chakra cloak. You have no proof suggesting either, just because a rasengan can go through wood & just because katon can't go through a chakra cloak doesn't mean that mokuton > katon. What were you even trying to say with such a comparison?
Of course it is, it burns the wood just like rasengan destroyed it, obviously it won't be an instant result like with a jutsu that causes an impact [rasengan] but there's nothing suggesting that the wood won't eventually be burned, like any other wood. Hell tobirama's suidanha cut through shinju mokuton with ease, are we gonna say that it can cut a juubi sized katon in half now?
How about you just ask me how I'm planning on making obito use the barrier instead of assuming I'm using it for something else & then calling my example invalid based on that? He's going to cover himself up if need be, the GM is still doing it's thing on the outside.
not to mention that it doesnt even have the feats to bust forest level mokutons/objects
What are you going on about? It prevents pollen from entering, the mokuton has no feats of busting any barrier so burden of proof is on you if that's what you were referring to.
hashirama can still pin the mazo down with myojinmon and absorb its chakra with mokuryu
If hashi is focusing on pinning down the GM then the bijuu are busy spamming him with bijuudamas, one will eventually hit since you're giving the GM so much attention, then all obito has to do is re-summon the mazou to escape any situation where it may be pinned. & Mokuryuu gets blasted away by the GM's shockwave since it's not anchored & made out of wood.
Its not fast enough to evade myojinmon, it has incredibly slow flying feats,
So? If chomei gets hit by a gate in the air then it has plenty of time to escape before the gate hits the ground. As I said in my previous post, unless chomei is flying low to the ground then it isn't getting pinned immediately after being hit, as it's falling it has time to escape. Even if it does get pinned, it reverts to a smaller size to escape or obito sends it back into the GM, either way works & can't be stopped.
Without info he isn't figuring out that the chakra rods are keeping the bijuu tied to their respective owners, & plus naruto needed to cause an explosion
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large, then simultaneously grab every single chakra rod by planting clones into his extending chakra arms [which are much faster than mokuton by feats] to remove them [all before obito could notice & bind him]. If hashi can't replicate this [which he can't] then he isn't removing the rods, not before obito does something anyways.
You keep saying "while he preps SM" but the 4th databook has confirmed Hashirama enters Sage Mode instantly, it should have been obvious from the manga too. So that's not happening.
He needs to clap his hands together & remain still for a moment to gather the necessary senjutsu. Then he needs to gather more in order to perform things such as SS or a mokujin via senjutsu. Yes he can enter it instantly but there's still preparation, & obito is the type of character who could take advantage of literally any opening.
So you're seriously going to tell me that hashi has better reflexes than minato? Tobirama was hailed as the fastest shinobi of his era, not hashi, minato is faster than him & has better reflexes so that automatically puts him on another level in terms of speed portrayal-wise. Feat-wise, I wanna see hashi in SM react to V2 ay's striking speed, then he can possibly compete.
& You've said twice now that madara reacting to tobirama's FTG is somewhat impressive, but striking speed is completely different from movement speed. Tobirama used FTG to get behind madara & with SM madara was able to react to tobirama's attack, did madara know that tobirama was behind him before he appeared there? No? Then he didn't react to FTG, he reacted to tobirama's striking speed. Same case with minato & obito, obito was already there & minato didn't react until after the fact.
As for JJ madara reacting to minato's FTG, that shouldn't even be one of your examples since juubi jins are already portrayed to be on another level. Plus, hashi's senjutsu wasn't even being used anymore, it was rikudou senjutsu.
As I said above killerbee outran them so they aren't fast. Lol I can't believe you think hashi is faster than minato or has better reflexes based on this, we don't even have the on-panel scan of minato getting caught, smh..
Minato, like karin, could have had his sensory abilities already active, no proof on either end but the fact still remains that minato got caught by obito.
With Sage Mode, Hashirama will know Obito is behind him the second he materializes, and easily react to him.
Well at least I'm not comparing tobirama's striking speed with FTG. Lol & Anyways I was referring to
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, I guess I forgot to post the scan which illustrates my point but in the scan where obito caught minato he was already behind him before he noticed. In this example obito is barely out of the ground before he warps torune away & he's much closer than before. If obito employs this same warping tactic instead of the minato one then as I said, hashi isn't escaping.
Obito managed to do this:
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Again, that's not happening with a Sage Mode user.
Of course it is, there's nothing that puts hashirama's speed, even in SM, on a higher tier than minato's. & Plus as I said previously that warping tactic was easier to anticipate than the one against torune.
Hashirama would overwhelm Obito with increased reflexes, sensing, reaction time,
No he won't, nobody ever has [except for konan]. Kakashi, gai, naruto, & bee were merely wasting their chakra trying to hit obito who wasn't even going for the warp I'm suggesting, plus they had full info, plus they weren't fighting the bijuu & obito together with the GM, plus the GM became unusable which meant the team was all focusing on him.
Obito with this many diversions, plus the info advantage, cleans this up before hashi even knows he's a s/t user.
Obito's versatility was off the charts considering he had been trained by Madara, but SM Hashirama being on par (slightly above) Madara would end up besting Obito in CQC.
All irrelevant..you think Obito can surprise Hashirama in SM because other sensors have been surprised, but that won't be the case with Sage Mode sensing.
Then burden of proof is on you to show me that sage mode users can sense faster than normal sensors, & not just their reactions that are getting a boost.
Sensing is sensing, there's no such thing as "sensing speed" which is what you're implying with this statement. There is a constant speed of light, a constant speed of sound, so all sensors sense things at the exact same time unless proven otherwise. It's the same thing as someone hearing or seeing something, you don't see something faster than someone else [well unless you have the sharingan], & so you don't sense something any faster either.
SM naruto feats, show me hashi sensing from that far away, until then he can't do it. I'm not associating hashi's SM with toad SM unless you wanna give him frog kata too. U_U
& Even if hashi can locate where obito is, all it takes is a giant katon, an explosion, or a tbb to expel a large amount of chakra, then obito phases through it & disappears. Hashi won't know what's happening before it's too late.
Since karin failed to sense obito's surprise warp, hashi even with his sensing activated will also fail, the point you made here is only useful for figuring out that obito can teleport, but that gets negated by a blast of chakra.
And as you've said multiple times, Obito isn't warping anyone here without doing it by surprise.
Can't find the databook scan, but there's also the fact Yamato managed to create a wooden doll and use the body replacement, in less than a second, before Kabuto managed to touch him. Not that his matters I'm just teasing Lol
- Good, so you will not have terrible finding Hashirama's sensing feats. Because Jiraiya was not able to sense by himself either.
- Kabuto IS a perfect SM user. I don't know from where you got the impression that he is not.
Jiraiya is not a perfect sage. Pa already explained to Naruto, Perfect Sage mode users only have a noticeable change of appearance in their eyes. Jiraiya had webbed feet and a widened nose which means he is not a perfect sage and cannot sense.
Pretty sure Kabuto is in the same boat. He uses Jugo to enter sage mode. Orochimaru absorbed his chakra back and Kabuto reverted back to normal (looking like a human). We see him later using Sage Mode while saving Sasuke and he is back to looking like a snake:
Lol for the thousand time Ftg is the same speed. Tobirama's shunshin is inferior, but Madara in Sage Mode still reacted to FTG.
Also, that same madara defeated Hashirama right away, and stabbed him with 6 of the block rods, so yeah, he was superior to Hashirama, and as such his feats can't be given to Hashirama. Not to mention it was not mentioned that he countered him with SM, Kishi focused on the Rinnegan. Lol
Reread the chapter. Hashirama was already impaled from their Edo fight.
@Bold: Lol.....So Madara has Sage Mode which is said to increase sensing, reflexes, and reaction and Hashi haters say it was probably because of Madara's Rinnegann that he sensed Tobirama, and reacted to him
Naruto IS a sensor in KCM as well. He sensed his father's chakra while in that mode. Actually he was stated to be better than the sensors when he could tell that Kisame was hiding in his sword.
Like you said, everyone can sense Kurama's chakra. If KCM Naruto was a sensor (to the extent of SM Naruto) he wouldn't have had to enter sage mode against 3rd Raikage and he did.
So be it. So how do you know how good Hashirama is? All we know is he's terrible at it. How does that determine
that he can tell and react to Obito? When both Karin and Minato who are better than him only noticed that after a while?
Tobirama being a better sensor than Hashirama =/= Hashirama being a terrible sensor. Sensors can extinguish their chakra, as Karin has shown. Tobirama was ordered to tail Hashirama, pretty sure he would keep his presence concealed.
Really? Maybe you can then prove that. Because what I saw is when Naruto fell on the rocks he was not damaged at all. However, Sasuke was able to cut through Madara's arm even though he had SM. Also, Naruto was able to destroy the block rods when pain used them against him. Something Hashirama couldn't do. How do you explain that?
Madara already told Zetsu, "knowing that I have Hashirama's healing factor, I tend to lose grace when I fight."
When Naruto used his Rassengan, he damaged Obito. On the other hand, Hashirama's gates couldn't do anything to Obito. As for the sensing, Jiraiya, who was using SM, was not able to sense Pain behind him, and he was using the barrier for sensing. How do you explain that?
Jiraiya isn't a perfect sage.....the barrier he set up in the beginning? Pretty sure that was gone by the end of the fight lmao
Thing is, Hashirama has no feats at all, and you gave him Naruto's feats who is one of the best sensors in the manga, if not the best. Giving him such feats is based on what exactly when he just know that he is not even a good sensor, and hasn't shown any feats with it?
Why not give him Naruto's sensing after the Hago's power while at it? Since both are SM?!
Manga already confirms all perfect sage mode users can sense. Naruto says now that he has mastered sage mode energy. Made no mention about frog sage mode, he just say sage energy, which all Sage Mode users use:
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@Bold: Let's not act retarded :| Don't compare sage mode to Rikudo Sage Mode
@Draphsin
He needs to clap his hands together & remain still for a moment to gather the necessary senjutsu. Then he needs to gather more in order to perform things such as SS or a mokujin via senjutsu. Yes he can enter it instantly but there's still preparation, & obito is the type of character who could take advantage of literally any opening.
He clasps his hands to summon SS. He didn't clasp his hands when he entred sage mode during the war arc when he pinned down the juubi.
SM naruto feats, show me hashi sensing from that far away, until then he can't do it. I'm not associating hashi's SM with toad SM unless you wanna give him frog kata too. U_U
Manga clearly and specifically points out that the sensing is granted by "manipuliating NATURE ENERGY." So all Perfect Sage Mode users are granted the sensing, there is no reason for me to believe this is unique to Toad Sage mode after reading this statement.
And since Naruto wasn't even a sensor at BASE and Hashirama IS, then I see no reason why Naruto would be a better sensor than Hashirama in Sage Mode, especially when Hashirama's mastery of Sage Mode was higher than Naruto pre Rikudo mode.
Scans were irrelevant, I know this. Karin was sensing during the time that obito saver her as shown
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. Even if her sensing is passive, she had it active during that instance.
Don't know why you're trying to use Karin to try to debunk Sage Mode sensing. Sage mode users sense more effiently since they are manipulating nature energy around them. Naruto could easily sense all of his friends, without even focusing, and knew which ones where missing and he could also see a layout of chakra networks, a country away, and depict what was going on.
-Karin had to pause and focus to find Danzo at the Kage Summit
-Karin had to pause and focus to locate Killer Bee
-BM Minato with Kurama didn't even sense Naruto was in trouble, and Kurama had to tell him to check again
-Tobirama couldn't even sense Orochimaru possessed his own brother's cells when he was right in front of him
SM Naruto has already displayed greater feats in sensing than all of those other sensors you keep mentioning, combined.
So you're seriously going to tell me that hashi has better reflexes than minato? Tobirama was hailed as the fastest shinobi of his era, not hashi, minato is faster than him & has better reflexes so that automatically puts him on another level in terms of speed portrayal-wise. Feat-wise, I wanna see hashi in SM react to V2 ay's striking speed, then he can possibly compete.
Madara with Sage Mode already reacted to FTG, which is faster than Kamui.
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Twice.
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Hashirama with Sage Mode would react to Minato and Tobirama as well, unless you want to tell me Madara can use Hashirama's Sage Mode better than Hashirama himself?
You've said twice now hat madara reacting to tobirama's FTG is somewhat impressive, but striking speed is completely different from movement speed. Tobirama used FTG to get behind madara & with SM madara was able to react to tobirama's attack, did madara know that tobirama was behind him before he appeared there? No? Then he didn't react to FTG, he reacted to tobirama's striking speed. Same case with minato & obito, obito was already there & minato didn't react until after the fact.
Don't know what else to tell you. You're comparing non sage mode sensors to Hashirama because you're tryin to say Hashirama in Sage Mode doesn't have the same sensing as a Pain Arc Naruto when the manga specifically says all nature energy grants the ability.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
Obito benefits from 7 view points. Even if he's only half-competent with his Sharingan, there's an extremely poor chance of him being taken by surprise or overwhelmed by Moku Bunshins, since he has Kamui and the 3 tomoe's abilities to aid him.
Doesnt matter if he has the sharingan precog with him here,
first of all, obito wont even be able to decipher the real from the original, so there goes his chance of catching the real hashirama,
secondly, obito needs to solidifiy to attack, and he actually needs to touch or be within 2m of his opponent in-order to warp him,
with that being said, the moment this happens, hashirama has over 20 clones at his disposal to comfortably attack him during that interval,
and like i said, using the kamui warp for obito is possibly the worst decision when hes getting attacked from both dimensions meaning that he either gets attacked from both dimensions or he fights without even intangibility, both of which result in a rape
not to mention that with the aid of SM, hashiramas sensing and reflexes would be immense, therefore ensuring that hes the one landing the blow at obito
It would also be totally out of character for Hashirama to produce anything upwards of around 10 clones for what is essentially one opponent in this scenario.
Nope, it wont be OOC at all, especially when hashirama would know that he requires diversions to attack obito with, and the more the better,
meaning that he can form 25 mokuton clones just fine, and take him out
We've already mentioned that Obito is in control of where in Kamuiland objects are sent, so getting 'raped from both dimensions' isn't really an issue.
Actually he really isnt, there has been no proof of that,
when obito warped kakashi into the dimension, he ended up at exactly the same place as where he warps his body parts at,
and when even madara warped into kamui, he turned at exactly the same place as where obito/sakura were,
you're going to need proof on the fact that kamui is endless, because based on what we have seen, everything comes and goes at exactly the same spot, thus ensuring that obito gets hit
You are being very unreasonable with your analysis.
Nope, base hashirama had the speed to outrun even the PS-TBB , something which travelled the entire sea within seconds,
and he had the speed comparable to blind madara who nigh blitzed even SM naruto,
now add his SM, and we had Madara react and even evade an FTG based attack from tobirama which is faster than kamui, and land a blow on the same guy who reacted to even juubito,,
so if obito really decides to touch hashirama, he would get stabbed by a mokuton spike during that interval especially when we take hashiramas SM reflexes into consideration,
hashirama having the clones just makes this even easier for him
Minato thought the same and even he was touched. Hashirama isn't able to put all his energy into deducing the mechanics of Kamui;
he's got 6 Jinchuuriki paths to worry about as well. How does their linked vision work? Are they all seeing the same thing? Are they afforded all of the Rinnegan's abilities? Can they use the powers of each Bijuu? What is Gedou Mazou? All of these things will be running through his mind. Now, if you had talked about his reconnaissance-based abilities, you would've gone somewhere. Whether or not the Bunshins can accurately obtain information whilst putting all their efforts into fighting Obito remains to be seen. As it is, you're not looking at the bigger picture. You're oversimplifying this fight far too much and assuming Shodai can complete a range of tasks simultaneously simply because he'd likely be able to do so individually. It doesn't work like that.
The bijuu and the mazo are not doing anything at all here, and obito is certainly not attacking hashirama when he'll have the bijuus at his disposal,
furthermore hashirama knows his arsenal is completely anti bijuu,, meaning that he uses just that to take them out, when he canonically pinned even V3 juubi down with myojinomon the moment he arrived
Myojinmon pins them down compltely, before they even fire off their TBB, and the bijuus reverting back to V2 isnt cutting it either when hashirama has shown to be able to use myojinmon on human sized targets as well, thus allowing the clones to either remove their stakes, or simply putting them to sleep
mokuryu is also sucking the bijuus dry, especially when it immobilised even a perfect jin like bee, as it sucks them to a point they will be left immobilised
SS isnt even needed to eradicate the bijuus, when base hashiramas arsenal is a nightmare for them,
its not cutting it here, when his mokutons are forest size, which required several rasengans to take out
and whe v1 cloak alone repelled his katons away,
furthermore katon is just enhancing the pollen even more
Madara's Taijutsu>Itachi's Taijutsu. KCM Naruto matched Itachi in Taijutsu. Hashirama's Taijutsu=Madara's Taijutsu.
EMS Sasuke>KCM Naruto in reactions. The latter got blitzed by Juubito while the former was tracking him. EMS Madara>EMS Sasuke in speed and reactions, given his display when he was revived without eyes. Base Hashirama matches EMS Madara's speed, SM increases that speed.
Madara's Taijutsu>Itachi's Taijutsu. KCM Naruto matched Itachi in Taijutsu. Hashirama's Taijutsu=Madara's Taijutsu.
EMS Sasuke>KCM Naruto in reactions. The latter got blitzed by Juubito while the former was tracking him. EMS Madara>EMS Sasuke in speed and reactions, given his display when he was revived without eyes. Base Hashirama matches EMS Madara's speed, SM increases that speed.
lol what? 50% Kyuubi matched 5 Bijuu. Though a perfect Jinchuriki is stronger than a Bijuu, the full Kyuubi is twice as big and has twice as much Chakra, as it has much more raw force. Kyuubi is by far stronger than the other Bijuu. As the perfect Susanoo is. The perfect Susanoo is by far bigger than the Bijuu, tanks a Bijuudama without damage and slices mountain ranges with one swing of its sword. A combination of both shits on the Bijuu and Gedo Mazo. As long as Obito uses the 6 Bijuu, Gedo Mazo is nevertheless a weak shell.
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Next time the Bijuu or the Mazo can do this, we can talk.
Fact is, Madara easily restrained the Kyuubi and Hachibi. Naruto was the one who freed Hachibi from the wood before Madara gave him the final blow. One gate for each Bijuu and they're done. A gate followed by Mokuton.
lol what? 50% Kyuubi matched 5 Bijuu. Though a perfect Jinchuriki is stronger than a Bijuu, the full Kyuubi is twice as big and has twice as much Chakra, as it has much more raw force. Kyuubi is by far stronger than the other Bijuu. As the perfect Susanoo is. The perfect Susanoo is by far bigger than the Bijuu, tanks a Bijuudama without damage and slices mountain ranges with one swing of its sword. A combination of both shits on the Bijuu and Gedo Mazo. As long as Obito uses the 6 Bijuu, Gedo Mazo is nevertheless a weak shell.
Kyuubi is stronger the strongest bijuu, but he is no way in hell stronger than all six bijuus combined.
That doesn't even make a little bit of sense, otherwise the juubi wouldn't of been created without the yang and yin kyuubi in it.
Naruto used his bijuudama to lift the other one, not match it blow for blow other wise he would get overwhelmed:
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Since the other TTB was was stronger, he redirect the blast into the air.
Kyuubi can't beat all other six bijuus by himself, that's impossible.
Big=/=Stronger, saying that Susanoo is big has little to do with any strength.
Madara's Perfect a Susanoo is able to match one bijuus power:
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Madara used Iso Susanoo against Hashirama, not perfect Susanoo.
So no matter how much Susanoo amuses you, there is a limit.
A bijuu can can destroy a village and has unlimited amount of chakra, something SS and Susanoo can't do.
Gedo mazou soloes all nine bijuus:
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It extracted all nine bijuus and overpowered two perfect jinchuuriki's at the same time, you have to be crazy to think that Susanoo or SS can beat Gedo mazou.
Anything that comes in contact with it will have their life energy devoured:
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Gedo mazou>>>People and bijuus
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Next time the Bijuu or the Mazo can do this, we can talk.
That's was the combined effort of Madara and Hashirama, let's see any of those guys match this power:
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At best they created a valley, these bijuus level countries.
Fact is, Madara easily restrained the Kyuubi and Hachibi. Naruto was the one who freed Hachibi from the wood before Madara gave him the final blow. One gate for each Bijuu and they're done. A gate followed by Mokuton.
50% Kyuubi canonically kept up with 5 Bijuu and overpowered them. It took the combined power of 5 Bijuu to stalemate with the Bijuudama of Kyuubi. Though Naruto had an advanced Bijuumode, chakra-wise, it was 50% Kyuubi. While 100% Kyuubi is by far bigger and has twice as much Chakra. Not to mention the raw power. Madara's wood dragon suppressed 50% Kyuubi, while 100% Kyuubi just ripped it apart. Fact is also, that with Mokuton, Madara dealt with both 50% Kyuubi and Hachibi. The Bijuu themselves couldn't deal with the Mokuton. Naruto tore the Mokuton apart which restrained the Hachibi - the second strongest Bijuu of a perfect Jinchuriki.
It also doesn't matter what Madara said about his perfect Susanoo and the power of the Bijuu. Power wise, both a Bijuu and the perfect Susanoo cause a similar amount of destruction, hence it rivals them in strength. Yet, feat wise, the perfect Susanoo clearly surpasses the Bijuu, as it is bigger and tanks a Bijuudama effortlessly, what can't be said about the Bijuu, when Hachibi received hard damage after he took his own Bijuudama. Plus, even Bijuu reach their Chakra limit when they use their Bijuudama too often. The perfect Susanoo however can be maintained as long as the user wants, as the Eternal Mangekyo eliminates the suffering from the usage of MS techniques. A single strike slices mountain ranges, and Madara can keep this going and going. The full Kyuubi also has by far more Chakra than the rest of the Bijuu, seeing how it instantly shots 10+ Bijuudamas at the Buddha. Even 50% Kyuubi creates a Bijuudama equal to the combined Bijuudama of Obito's 5 Bijuu.
How the fck is this even debatable if this is all canon? When it's canon that 50% Kyuubi kept up with 5 Bijuu and used a Bijuudama equal to their combined? You say a perfect Jinchuriki shits on the gates unlike a "wild" Bijuu. When their Bijuu transformation is nothing but them releasing their Bijuu. Bee is also a perfect Jinchuriki, of the second strongest Bijuu. Yet Madara fobbed him off with a simple Mokuton technique.
Gedo Mazo solos the 9 Bijuu when used by the true wielder of the Rinnegan. Obito is weak compared to this. He had the Gedo Mazo statue all along but didn't use it against Bee and Naruto, simply because he couldn't. Akatsuki needed 3 days to extract one Bijuu. Madara seals all 9 Bijuu at once instantly.
The Jinchuriki have no chance against the Mokuton. If they enter V1 or V2 of their Chakra mode, Hashirama simply suppresses their power with Mokuton. As he does with the Bijuu.
What Madara did or how he crushed the gates is irrelevant; the Bijuu are not crushing the gates, as the Juubi didn't. So they're either eliminated by the gates or by Mokuton, like Kyuubi and Hachibi.
You do realize "God" is just a nickname, right? People don't actually think he's a literal "God." You can't strip someone of a nickname they earned in their lifetime just because someone stronger comes along in the future. So again, keep your dumbass off topic opinions off the vs threads.
I cant see obito losing this.
Theres no reason why hashirama would hide himself deep within his mokuton and attack from a distance (the only way to counter kamui) w.o prior info.
Hashi doesnt avoid physical attacks, he didnt against hiruzen or against madara (the first scan where hashis sword strikes madaras fan).
That would give obito an opening to warp him. Now unless someone can show scans of the god of shinobi using s/t ninjutsu, he gets negged.
