[Discussion] Trebols Devil Fruit

[Punk Hazard]

Well he clearly isn't a normal logia. Look at how his clothes don't change when he becomes mucus.

Because Oda has never changed his art style or the way he draws before. I'm not saying you're 100% incorrect, but there isn't enough to go off of.

 

[giostep]

Im still not sure how Mucus is a Element or a "Force of Nature"
Organisms make a whole lot of different Fluids.
So there can technique speaking be a "Urine Urine fruit", "Sweat Sweat fruit", "Red Blood Cell Red Blood Cell fruit", "Bone marrow Bone marrow fruit", "Finger Nail Finger Nail fruit", etc.

Maybe Logia is the ability to Physically transform into something that is found in nature without human intervention.
But with my definition Doffy is a Logia then lol spiders make webs (strings)

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Im still not sure how Mucus is a Element or a "Force of Nature"
Organisms make a whole lot of different Fluids.
So there can technique speaking be a "Urine Urine fruit", "Sweat Sweat fruit", "Red Blood Cell Red Blood Cell fruit", "Bone marrow Bone marrow fruit", "Finger Nail Finger Nail fruit", etc.

Maybe Logia is the ability to Physically transform into something that is found in nature without human intervention.
But with my definition Doffy is a Logia then lol spiders make webs (strings)

Thus proving the Beta Beta no Mi is an abnormality

 

[giostep]

Thus proving the Beta Beta no Mi is an abnormality

Or maybe their are just 2 criteria
1. Ability to physically turn into "something"
2. The ability to create that same "something"

and the "something" can be anything found in nature or not.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Im still not sure how Mucus is a Element or a "Force of Nature"
Organisms make a whole lot of different Fluids.
So there can technique speaking be a "Urine Urine fruit", "Sweat Sweat fruit", "Red Blood Cell Red Blood Cell fruit", "Bone marrow Bone marrow fruit", "Finger Nail Finger Nail fruit", etc.

Maybe Logia is the ability to Physically transform into something that is found in nature without human intervention.
But with my definition Doffy is a Logia then lol spiders make webs (strings)

Nah, he just creates strings. Doffy himself can't turn into strings. Also, spiders make silk. Not necessarily string. But I agree with the rest of your definition.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Or maybe their are just 2 criteria
1. Ability to physically turn into "something"
2. The ability to create that same "something"

and the "something" can be anything found in nature or not.

That something is a force of nature or element.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That something is a force of nature or element.

Where was this said exactly?

 

[giostep]

That something is a force of nature or element.

I dont think we should replace "something" with "force of nature" and the "Pasa Pasa No Mi" directly contradicts that even if its not cannon.

 

[ZoroXTashigi]

LOGIA ...

D: Oda-sensei, I was curious; is Foxy the Silver Fox's Noro Noro no Mi a Logia type, Paramecia type, or Zoan type? I'll be too anxious for your reply to use the bathroom, so hurry it up.

O: It's a Paramecia (superhuman) type. Logia (nature) type can turn their bodies into something completely different. Zoan (animal) type can turn into animals. Everything aside from those is lumped into the Paramecia (superhuman) category. However, there are some Paramecia who can change their own bodies, as well.

...

D: Hello, Oda-sensei! I have a question. Is Whitebeard, Edward Newgate, a Logia or a Paramecia? I personally think he's Logia, since he took Aokiji's attack without turning to ice, but...? P.N. NY

O: I guess that's difficult. The answer is Paramecia. "Guragura no mi" is said to be the most powerful of the many paramecia fruits. It's easy to think that he's an "Earthquake Human" and must be Logia, but if that was so, he'd have to become an earthquake himself. Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias.

 

[Punk Hazard]

LOGIA ...

D: Oda-sensei, I was curious; is Foxy the Silver Fox's Noro Noro no Mi a Logia type, Paramecia type, or Zoan type? I'll be too anxious for your reply to use the bathroom, so hurry it up.

O: It's a Paramecia (superhuman) type. Logia (nature) type can turn their bodies into something completely different. Zoan (animal) type can turn into animals. Everything aside from those is lumped into the Paramecia (superhuman) category. However, there are some Paramecia who can change their own bodies, as well.

...

D: Hello, Oda-sensei! I have a question. Is Whitebeard, Edward Newgate, a Logia or a Paramecia? I personally think he's Logia, since he took Aokiji's attack without turning to ice, but...? P.N. NY

O: I guess that's difficult. The answer is Paramecia. "Guragura no mi" is said to be the most powerful of the many paramecia fruits. It's easy to think that he's an "Earthquake Human" and must be Logia, but if that was so, he'd have to become an earthquake himself. Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias.

There we have it. Not force of nature, simply nature. Mucus is definitely a part of nature.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

There we have it. Not force of nature, simply nature. Mucus is definitely a part of nature.

Do explain why Galdino and Magellan aren't Logias then Considering Wax and Poison are also a part of nature.

It's as I said:
If animals or plants create it, it shouldn't be a Logia, which is why I question the difference between the Beta Beta no Mi and the Doku Doku no Mi etc.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Do explain why Galdino and Magellan aren't Logias then

Because they can't transform what their fruits produced. How do you not understand this yet, I have literally explained this to you about seven times in the past year do you read the words of the manga or do you just stare at the lines that divide the panels

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Because they can't transform what their fruits produced. How do you not understand this yet, I have literally explained this to you about seven times in the past year do you read the words of the manga or do you just stare at the lines that divide the panels

You clearly don't understand the question. Fundamentally, creating Poison or Wax is the same as creating Mucus (animal/plant produce). So, why is it that the Beta Beta no Mi differs from Paramecias that are fundamentally more similar than the other Logia Fruits?

 

[Punk Hazard]

You clearly don't understand the question. Fundamentally, creating Poison or Wax is the same as creating Mucus (animal/plant produce). So, why is it that the Beta Beta no Mi differs from Paramecias that are fundamentally more similar than the other Logia Fruits?

Okay say it with me. Logias allow you to create AND turn into a natural material or thing. A Paramecia lets you create OR turn into a material or thing. Mucus is a natural material. The Beta Beta allows the consumer to create AND turn into the natural material that is mucus. Paramecias also allow you to turn into something, or create it, but not both. A Logia does. That's why it's a Logia. Do you understand?

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Okay say it with me. Logias allow you to create AND turn into a natural material or thing. A Paramecia lets you create OR turn into a material or thing. Mucus is a natural material. The Beta Beta allows the consumer to create AND turn into the natural material that is mucus. Paramecias also allow you to turn into something, or create it, but not both. A Logia does. That's why it's a Logia. Do you understand?

Say it with me. Poison, Wax and Mucus are excreted by plants (poison and Mucus are also Animal made), this categorizes them together. On the contrary Smoke, Fire, Snow, Sand, Magma, Light, Lightning etc. are not produced by Plants. This means that Mucus is the odd one out in the Logia category, therefore, clearly, I should be allowed to question why the Beta Beta no Mi was made a Logia.

Baby 5 is able to create and turn into weapons, but is not a Logia. So clearly the criteria of being a force of nature or element is very important in classifying Devil Fruits. Plant created material (except Mucus, which shares no likeness to a force or element of nature) have all been Paramecias. Thus, again, placing Mucus as the odd one out.

Mucus is also the odd one out in the sense that (as I've mentioned many times before), Trebol doesn't change colour or whatever when entering his Mucus form, which again, like always, separates him from the rest of the Logia category.

Mucus is also different in the sense that it envelopes a large range of fundamentally different substances (so does Poison and Wax, these are Paramecia). The Logias that envelop a range of substances (Gas, Smoke, Mud/Swamp, Sand, Magma) are all fundamentally the same substance, no matter what kind, down to a chemical level. Again, Mucus differentiates from all Logias in this extent too.

Therefore, Mucus, in my opinion should not belong to the Logia category unless his fruit is an artificial failed Logia (given he explodes in contact with fire, something which is also abnormal, even for 99.9999% of types of Mucus) created by Vegapunk or somebody working close to him.

There. I've said. Bye now.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Say it with me. Poison, Wax and Mucus are excreted by plants (poison and Mucus are also Animal made), this categorizes them together. On the contrary Smoke, Fire, Snow, Sand, Magma, Light, Lightning etc. are not produced by Plants. This means that Mucus is the odd one out in the Logia category, therefore, clearly, I should be allowed to question why the Beta Beta no Mi was made a Logia.

Baby 5 is able to create and turn into weapons, but is not a Logia. So clearly the criteria of being a force of nature or element is very important in classifying Devil Fruits. Plant created material (except Mucus, which shares no likeness to a force or element of nature) have all been Paramecias. Thus, again, placing Mucus as the odd one out.

Mucus is also the odd one out in the sense that (as I've mentioned many times before), Trebol doesn't change colour or whatever when entering his Mucus form, which again, like always, separates him from the rest of the Logia category.

Mucus is also different in the sense that it envelopes a large range of fundamentally different substances (so does Poison and Wax, these are Paramecia). The Logias that envelop a range of substances (Gas, Smoke, Mud/Swamp, Sand, Magma) are all fundamentally the same substance, no matter what kind, down to a chemical level. Again, Mucus differentiates from all Logias in this extent too.

Therefore, Mucus, in my opinion should not belong to the Logia category unless his fruit is an artificial failed Logia (given he explodes in contact with fire, something which is also abnormal, even for 99.9999% of types of Mucus) created by Vegapunk or somebody working close to him.

There. I've said. Bye now.

The mistake you are making here is that you keep on clinging to the force of nature aspect of being a Logia. Check the SBS quotes above, Oda didn't say that a Logia is a force of nature, but simply some kind of aspect of nature. Mucus fits the criteria of being an aspect of nature. The fact that mucus is created by plants and animals does not make them odd ones out. Does this make them different from fire, magma, smoke, light, lightning, ice, etc.? Yes. But magma, smoke and ice are also different from lightning, fire and light. Does that mean that the former group's legitimacy as Logia powers should be brought into question? Or the latter? No. Dividing mucus from the other Logias does not make it an ¨odd one out¨ because you can further divide the remnants from each other.

I could divide all the Logia abilities in this format:
Forms of energy:
-Light
-Electricity


Natural biotic materials:
-Mucus

Natural abiotic materials:
-Swamp
-Ice
-Magma
-Gas
-Smoke
-Fire
-Sand

If mucus encompassing a large amount of materials makes it abnormal, then so does the Gas Gas Fruit, as gas can be any of the 118 elements that we currently know of in gaseous form. This is evident by the fact that Caesar can make poisonous gases, exploding gases, light gases, dense gases and even specify that he's affecting oxygen. If you want to count the Beta Beta no Mi as an abnormal Logia for this reason, then you must do so with Caesar's fruit as well, which would contradict what you've said before.

Baby 5 is a Paramecia because what she creates and turns into is not a part of nature. This means nothing for the Beta Beta no Mi's legitimacy as a natural Logia.

Mucus not changing color when transformed also isn't odd because Caesar has shown the same thing.

Transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

Not transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

It's because of partial transformations. There's also the fact that Trebol's mucus is the same color as his jacket already :| So of course the color won't change much when he transforms.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Say it with me. Poison, Wax and Mucus are excreted by plants (poison and Mucus are also Animal made), this categorizes them together. On the contrary Smoke, Fire, Snow, Sand, Magma, Light, Lightning etc. are not produced by Plants. This means that Mucus is the odd one out in the Logia category, therefore, clearly, I should be allowed to question why the Beta Beta no Mi was made a Logia.

Baby 5 is able to create and turn into weapons, but is not a Logia. So clearly the criteria of being a force of nature or element is very important in classifying Devil Fruits. Plant created material (except Mucus, which shares no likeness to a force or element of nature) have all been Paramecias. Thus, again, placing Mucus as the odd one out.

Mucus is also the odd one out in the sense that (as I've mentioned many times before), Trebol doesn't change colour or whatever when entering his Mucus form, which again, like always, separates him from the rest of the Logia category.

Mucus is also different in the sense that it envelopes a large range of fundamentally different substances (so does Poison and Wax, these are Paramecia). The Logias that envelop a range of substances (Gas, Smoke, Mud/Swamp, Sand, Magma) are all fundamentally the same substance, no matter what kind, down to a chemical level. Again, Mucus differentiates from all Logias in this extent too.

Therefore, Mucus, in my opinion should not belong to the Logia category unless his fruit is an artificial failed Logia (given he explodes in contact with fire, something which is also abnormal, even for 99.9999% of types of Mucus) created by Vegapunk or somebody working close to him.

There. I've said. Bye now.

The mistake you are making here is that you keep on clinging to the force of nature aspect of being a Logia. Check the SBS quotes above, Oda didn't say that a Logia is a force of nature, but simply some kind of aspect of nature. Mucus fits the criteria of being an aspect of nature. The fact that mucus is created by plants and animals does not make them odd ones out. Does this make them different from fire, magma, smoke, light, lightning, ice, etc.? Yes. But magma, smoke and ice are also different from lightning, fire and light. Does that mean that the former group's legitimacy as Logia powers should be brought into question? Or the latter? No. Dividing mucus from the other Logias does not make it an ¨odd one out¨ because you can further divide the remnants from each other.

I could divide all the Logia abilities in this format:
Forms of energy:
-Light
-Electricity


Natural biotic materials:
-Mucus

Natural abiotic materials:
-Swamp
-Ice
-Magma
-Gas
-Smoke
-Fire
-Sand

If mucus encompassing a large amount of materials makes it abnormal, then so does the Gas Gas Fruit, as gas can be any of the 118 elements that we currently know of in gaseous form. This is evident by the fact that Caesar can make poisonous gases, exploding gases, light gases, dense gases and even specify that he's affecting oxygen. If you want to count the Beta Beta no Mi as an abnormal Logia for this reason, then you must do so with Caesar's fruit as well, which would contradict what you've said before.

Baby 5 is a Paramecia because what she creates and turns into is not a part of nature. This means nothing for the Beta Beta no Mi's legitimacy as a natural Logia.

Mucus not changing color when transformed also isn't odd because Caesar has shown the same thing.

Transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

Not transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

It's because of partial transformations. There's also the fact that Trebol's mucus is the same color as his jacket already :| So of course the color won't change much when he transforms.

 

[giostep]

Say it with me. Poison, Wax and Mucus are excreted by plants (poison and Mucus are also Animal made), this categorizes them together. On the contrary Smoke, Fire, Snow, Sand, Magma, Light, Lightning etc. are not produced by Plants. This means that Mucus is the odd one out in the Logia category, therefore, clearly, I should be allowed to question why the Beta Beta no Mi was made a Logia.

Baby 5 is able to create and turn into weapons, but is not a Logia. So clearly the criteria of being a force of nature or element is very important in classifying Devil Fruits. Plant created material (except Mucus, which shares no likeness to a force or element of nature) have all been Paramecias. Thus, again, placing Mucus as the odd one out.

Mucus is also the odd one out in the sense that (as I've mentioned many times before), Trebol doesn't change colour or whatever when entering his Mucus form, which again, like always, separates him from the rest of the Logia category.

Mucus is also different in the sense that it envelopes a large range of fundamentally different substances (so does Poison and Wax, these are Paramecia). The Logias that envelop a range of substances (Gas, Smoke, Mud/Swamp, Sand, Magma) are all fundamentally the same substance, no matter what kind, down to a chemical level. Again, Mucus differentiates from all Logias in this extent too.

Therefore, Mucus, in my opinion should not belong to the Logia category unless his fruit is an artificial failed Logia (given he explodes in contact with fire, something which is also abnormal, even for 99.9999% of types of Mucus) created by Vegapunk or somebody working close to him.

There. I've said. Bye now.

Logia users can manipulate there body into another substance (which is basically a change of there bodies Nature) and then they can also create that substance. Baby 5 may beable to change her body into weapons but she cannot spawn weapons out of thin air or detach them from her body, nor does she have any control over other peoples weapons.

If Doffy was able to become string (the same way Akaniu can become Magma) then he would also be a Logia, but as far as we know he is only able to create string, not able to turn his whole body into string, so that limits him to Parm.

Of course that the BASIC way i understand it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Logia users can manipulate there body into another substance (which is basically a change of there bodies Nature) and then they can also create that substance. Baby 5 may beable to change her body into weapons but she cannot spawn weapons out of thin air or detach them from her body, nor does she have any control over other peoples weapons.

If Doffy was able to become string (the same way Akaniu can become Magma) then he would also be a Logia, but as far as we know he is only able to create string, not able to turn his whole body into string, so that limits him to Parm.

Of course that the BASIC way i understand it.

Rinnemaki got destroyed again.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

The mistake you are making here is that you keep on clinging to the force of nature aspect of being a Logia. Check the SBS quotes above, Oda didn't say that a Logia is a force of nature, but simply some kind of aspect of nature. Mucus fits the criteria of being an aspect of nature. The fact that mucus is created by plants and animals does not make them odd ones out. Does this make them different from fire, magma, smoke, light, lightning, ice, etc.? Yes. But magma, smoke and ice are also different from lightning, fire and light. Does that mean that the former group's legitimacy as Logia powers should be brought into question? Or the latter? No. Dividing mucus from the other Logias does not make it an ¨odd one out¨ because you can further divide the remnants from each other.

Aspect of nature? Then why did Oda choose to make Doku Doku, Gomu Gomu, Kage Kage, Nikyu Nikyu, Horo Horo, Gura Gura and Ishi Ishi no Mi's (AND Jozu's, Isshou's and Kidds Devil Fruits) Logias? They're all aspects of Nature, in fact all Devil Fruits are an aspect of Nature in the One Piece universe.

What is it that the Logias have that they don't? Force of Nature or Elemental status. I'm clinging to this because you cannot refute it and have failed to, consistently.

Your argument here is invalid as all Logias are different whether it's Smoke, Magma, Lightning or whatever. What makes them the same type of Devil Fruit is what they can create and become, elements and forces of nature (as perceived by Ancients).

I could divide all the Logia abilities in this format:
Forms of energy:
-Light
-Electricity


Natural biotic materials:
-Mucus

Natural abiotic materials:
-Swamp
-Ice
-Magma
-Gas
-Smoke
-Fire
-Sand

And yet they're all forces of nature/elements except from the bolded one.

If mucus encompassing a large amount of materials makes it abnormal, then so does the Gas Gas Fruit, as gas can be any of the 118 elements that we currently know of in gaseous form. This is evident by the fact that Caesar can make poisonous gases, exploding gases, light gases, dense gases and even specify that he's affecting oxygen. If you want to count the Beta Beta no Mi as an abnormal Logia for this reason, then you must do so with Caesar's fruit as well, which would contradict what you've said before.

You clearly didn't understand what I was saying, so I simply wish to elaborate: Fundamentally, all Gases have free particles that will all fill a container, they have abstract shape. This is similar to say Magma (which is all superheated ash and rock), smoke (all a biproduct of a fire), fire (all oxygen + ignition to an object) etc. However, Mucus (like Wax and Poison) isn't all fundamentally the same. Mucus comes in many forms from living slimes to adhesives to snot to sap, all of which are very different, perhaps only sharing one thing in common, they're sticky. That's it.

Baby 5 is a Paramecia because what she creates and turns into is not a part of nature. This means nothing for the Beta Beta no Mi's legitimacy as a natural Logia.

However, people could say metal is a part of nature and technically Baby 5 creates and become different metallic objects. This is where things become blurred and the differences between these types of Paramecia and Logias become less defined. One of the reasons for such a debate.

Mucus not changing color when transformed also isn't odd because Caesar has shown the same thing.

Transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

Not transformed into gas:

You must be registered for see images

It's because of partial transformations. There's also the fact that Trebol's mucus is the same color as his jacket already :| So of course the color won't change much when he transforms.

Caesar can however, do this:

You must be registered for see images

Which is his genuine element form. The mucus carries the stripes and circles and markings from his jacket anywhere and everywhere. If he makes a rope, it's marked with the same markings as his clothing rather than looking like normal slime (which is not what you would normally expect from a Logia). It's similar to Crocodiles sand being the same colour as his clothes, carrying weird stripes and fur around, or Enels lightning being a pale colour, and having nipples should he launch a "thunder beast", or Smokers smoke having abs and the pattern of his cigars forever in the colourscheme of his smoke.