[Discussion] Who will be the next Strawhat?

[Skylar Knight]

Yeah, no, Robin fits the parallel far more than Sugar. For one, both Viola and Robin had no real tie to their superior, and were merely using them. Both betrayed them, both aided Luffy in a crucial way. Only thing Sugar has in common with Robin is being a female Paramecia who works closely with the main villain of the arc. And Sugar showed regrets for/doubts in for her actions?

Are we reading the same manga here? The only thing Sugar appeared to feel was some slight sympathy for the Tontottas that appeared for about a grand total of one panel.

Viola is used as and is a much better fit to the parallel than Sugar.

In Law's flashback, Sugar was not seen present with the other Donquixote Family members, which seems to suggest that she had yet to join the crew at this time. This would also explain why Law wasn't cautious when approaching Sugar. She probably joined right before Doflamingo ascended to the throne. Don't you think there's a reason for this? I doubt she was just like, "you know what, I'll join this family for no reason whatsoever." Of course she had some motive, and knowing Doflamingo, he probably promised her something in return. There's nothing more to go on, though.

Also, I find it unreasonable for you to even ignore the possibility of Sugar joining the crew, just 'cause she seems loyal to Doflamingo. If my little theory above is correct, and she was promised something in return, of course she'd help Doffy. Before we even start to jump on the whole theory wagon, we have no idea why she helped Doflamingo to start with. And in case you haven't forgotten, Robin was pretty much the same before her motives were revealed. She was acting just like the common bad guy - enjoying her time at Crocodile's casino, mercilessly injuring the king, civilians, and marine soldiers, and even saying she doesn't care what happens to the city. Of course, she had her reasons, but we didn't know of them before the Alabasta arc came to an end.

Viola is far from a better fit than Sugar, and I can't believe you don't see that. Sugar was introduced before the Dressrosa arc even started, just like Robin with the Alabasta arc. They were both crucial to the Shichibukai's plan, and Viola, well, she wasn't. Robin's past wasn't revealed before much later in the series, while Viola's past has already been revealed. Both Sugar and Robin has some kind of trauma, even though Sugar's is for comic relief. You're even speaking of how Viola had no real tie to Doflamingo, yet Robin were no royal, with no tie to the royal family in Alabasta.

I see you want to compare manga scans, as well? Should I go and look for the pages where Viola, or Violet at the time, laughed in Sanji's bloody face, kicking him with high heels, and calling him "pathetic", at the very same time as she was smiling about it all? If you showed people those scans before they even knew about her betrayal, they'd think she was just as bad as the rest of the Donquixote family.

When did Sugar ever do that?

During the Tontattas' speech.

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[ZoroTheSwordman]

i think it will be viola or bellamy

 

[Punk Hazard]

In Law's flashback, Sugar was not seen present with the other Donquixote Family members, which seems to suggest that she had yet to join the crew at this time. This would also explain why Law wasn't cautious when approaching Sugar. She probably joined right before Doflamingo ascended to the throne. Don't you think there's a reason for this? I doubt she was just like, "you know what, I'll join this family for no reason whatsoever." Of course she had some motive, and knowing Doflamingo, he probably promised her something in return. There's nothing more to go on, though.

Also, I find it unreasonable for you to even ignore the possibility of Sugar joining the crew, just 'cause she seems loyal to Doflamingo. If my little theory above is correct, and she was promised something in return, of course she'd help Doffy. We don't know her reason for doing this. And in case you haven't forgotten, Robin was pretty much the same before her motives were revealed. She was acting just like the common bad guy - enjoying her time at Crocodile's casino, mercilessly injuring the king, civilians, and marine soldiers, and even saying she doesn't care what happens to the city. Of course, she had her reasons, but we didn't know of them before the Alabasta arc came to an end.

Viola is far from a better fit than Sugar, and I can't believe you don't see that. Sugar was introduced before the Dressrosa arc even started, just like Robin with the Alabasta arc. They were both crucial to the Shichibukai's plan, and Viola, well, she wasn't. Robin's past wasn't revealed before much later in the series, while Viola's past has already been revealed. Both Sugar and Robin has some kind of trauma, even though Sugar's is for comic relief. You're even speaking of how Viola had no real tie to Doflamingo, yet Robin were no royal, with no tie to the royal family in Alabasta.

Also, are we gonna compare manga scans now? Should I go and look for the pages where Viola, or Violet at the time, laughed in Sanji's bloody face, kicking him with high heels, and calling him "pathetic", at the very same time as she was smiling about it all? If you showed people those scans before they even knew about her betrayal, they'd think she was just as bad as the rest of the Donquixote family.



During the Tontattas' speech.

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And? Sugar expressed great delight and pride in her abilities turning people into toys. It's very likely that the deal was simply that Sugar would be able to use her powers all she wanted under Doffy's protection. She'd be able to make all the toys she wants, and Doffy gets his kingdom. The Strawhats can't offer her that deal because they'd never let her go crazy with her power like Doffy is letting her.

I am not ignoring the possibility of Sugar joining the crew, I'm saying Viola would be better suited for the crew than her. I'm saying the parallel between Viola and Robin is much stronger than the parallel between Robin and Sugar. And I am not wrong. The only parallel between Sugar and Robin is that they are female Paramecia who work with the arc's main villain. Viola and Robin have the fact that they were planning on betraying the main villain, both were inspired to provide a crucial form of help to the Strawhats because a Strawhat opted to save them when they felt like they didn't deserve it. Sugar even goes in the complete opposite direction of Robin, actually feeling a genuine sense of servitude towards Doflamingo.

Violet's powers would also benefit the Strawhats much more than Sugar's powers, as I have pointed out before. They could help with Usopp, Chopper, Nami, and Franky, and outside of her powers she could aid Brook in his ship job. Sugar on the other hand can't do these things, and while Violet already has a genuine bond with one of the Strawhats, Sugar outright resents the Strawhats, particularly Usopp. That makes Violet a better choice.

Posting those scans won't help you further your point. Those scans depict Violet pretending to have ill-will towards Sanji for the sake of keeping up character and the fact that she did not trust him yet. The scans I posted of Sugar depict her talking to herself, which means she isn't hiding her feelings, that's what she genuinely feels, and it's definitely not regret or doubt.

Here is a scan supporting what I have said above, once again depicting Sugar talking to herself.

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If she's talking to herself, why would she be saying ingenuine feelings? The resentment to the Strawhats and the loyalty to Doffy are genuine. This weakens whatever parallel she could have had with Robin even further.

 

[VongolaX]

Bold: OMG, don't even say that as a joke! :devil:

Spoiler

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Red: It's unlikely that he is going to join, even tho I would love that. He is a samurai with old-fashioned values and he has a son. No way that he is going to abandon his country and his son to join a pirate crew.

OT: As I said the other day in some different thread I would really love Viola to join and I think that could happen, or at least it looks like that right now. But Oda is Oda...

And no, I think that there is any possibility that Kyros is going to join.
And Ucy... Eh...
If Ucy joins I want Surume in the crew then. >_______________________________>

Lol I like how out of all the crew members of the strawhats, you pick the one guy that still calls chopper the "emergency food supply," or at least was the last one to call him that. XD

But in all seriousness I see where you're coming from, I just figured that the three musketeers would be "complete," so to speak.

I only call chopper as what the government refers him to, no harm intended.

 

[Skylar Knight]

And? Sugar expressed great delight and pride in her abilities turning people into toys. It's very likely that the deal was simply that Sugar would be able to use her powers all she wanted under Doffy's protection. She'd be able to make all the toys she wants, and Doffy gets his kingdom. The Strawhats can't offer her that deal because they'd never let her go crazy with her power like Doffy is letting her.

Pure speculation. We have no idea what her real motives are, if she truly has any, and nothing implies that they're of any evil sort. It's far too early to say, really.

I am not ignoring the possibility of Sugar joining the crew, I'm saying Viola would be better suited for the crew than her. I'm saying the parallel between Viola and Robin is much stronger than the parallel between Robin and Sugar. And I am not wrong. The only parallel between Sugar and Robin is that they are female Paramecia who work with the arc's main villain. Viola and Robin have the fact that they were planning on betraying the main villain, both were inspired to provide a crucial form of help to the Strawhats because a Strawhat opted to save them when they felt like they didn't deserve it. Sugar even goes in the complete opposite direction of Robin, actually feeling a genuine sense of servitude towards Doflamingo.

Firstly, Sugar isn't just a female paramecia, as I've already pointed out that she was crucial for Doffy's plans. That alone makes her a strong candidate for being Robin's parallel. Secondly, in what way did Robin help in the battle of Alabasta? With no concern of the lives of the royal family, the nuclear bomb that was about to destroy the whole city, and the whole killing spree that was going on in the streets, she wasn't doing a thing. She had no plans of stopping the destruction of Alabasta. In the end, she simply rescued Luffy 'cause of the initial 'D' in his name.

Violet's powers would also benefit the Strawhats much more than Sugar's powers, as I have pointed out before. They could help with Usopp, Chopper, Nami, and Franky, and outside of her powers she could aid Brook in his ship job. Sugar on the other hand can't do these things, and while Violet already has a genuine bond with one of the Strawhats, Sugar outright resents the Strawhats, particularly Usopp. That makes Violet a better choice.

Some of the Strawhats' traits weren't shown before after they joined the crew. Zoro's way of keeping the crew together, Usopp's skill to build stuff, and Robin's knowledge of history. It's far too early to say if Sugar has any traits or skills that could in any way help the crew. For all you know, she could be a strategist. Mere guessing on my side.

Posting those scans won't help you further your point. Those scans depict Violet pretending to have ill-will towards Sanji for the sake of keeping up character and the fact that she did not trust him yet. The scans I posted of Sugar depict her talking to herself, which means she isn't hiding her feelings, that's what she genuinely feels, and it's definitely not regret or doubt.

Here is a scan supporting what I have said above, once again depicting Sugar talking to herself.
If she's talking to herself, why would she be saying ingenuine feelings? The resentment to the Strawhats and the loyalty to Doffy are genuine.

What I meant was that she could be doing this for herself alone, and not Doflamingo. If she ever made a deal with him, then that means she probably broke her part of it when the toys were turned back to humans. If that's the case, then there's no wonder she's angry with the Strawhats, and especially Usopp. Of course she'd say something like, "I must make this up for the young master!" if she was afraid he'd cancel the deal.

 

[Made in Heaven]

I'd like to see Viola join

 

[Punk Hazard]

Pure speculation. We have no idea what her real motives are, if she truly has any, and nothing implies that they're of any evil sort. It's far too early to say, really.



Firstly, Sugar isn't just a female paramecia, as I've already pointed out that she was crucial for Doffy's plans. That alone makes her a strong candidate for being Robin's parallel. Secondly, in what way did she help in the battle of Alabasta? With no concern of the lives of royal family, the nuclear bomb that was about to destroy the whole city, and the whole killing spree that was going on in the streets, she wasn't doing a thing. She had no plans of stopping the destruction of Alabasta. In the end, she simply rescued Luffy 'cause of the initial 'D' in his name.



Some of the Strawhats' traits weren't shown before after they joined the crew. Zoro's way of keeping the crew together, Usopp's skill to build stuff, and Robin's knowledge of history. It's far too early to say if Sugar has any traits or skills that could in any way help the crew. For all you know, she could be a strategist. Mere guessing on my side.



What I meant was that she could be doing this for herself alone, and not Doflamingo. If she ever made a deal with him, then that means she probably broke her part of it when the toys were turned back to humans. If that's the case, then there's no wonder she's angry with the Strawhats, and especially Usopp. Of course she'd say something like, "I must make this up for the young master!" if she was afraid he'd cancel the deal.

Because what you've been saying about her having some kind of ulterior motive beyond servitude to Doffy wasn't speculation?

I never said Sugar was just a female Paramecia, but that possible parallels between her and Robin ends with the fact that they are both female Paramecias who worked closely with the arc's main villain. Working closely was supposed to include playing a crucial role to their plans, but I suppose I was not clear enough on that. Robin and Violet have more parallels between each other. Robin helped Luffy by providing him with an antidote to Crocodile's poison, which would have killed him and cost him his fight against Crocodile.

I prefer not to go off mere guessing, but actually going on what the manga has shown and expanding on that. Is it possible that Sugar could have something to offer the crew? Yes. Has she shown something that she could offer the crew that is worth more than what Violet can? Absolutely not. I can just as easily say things like Gladius will join because it's possible he's an expert helmsman, or Machvise will join because it's possible he's an expert blacksmith.

"I have to make this up to the Young Master!" indicates that a very large part of doing this is simply because of servitude to Doffy. The other part was shown when she showed a strong desire to use her powers again. The deal is pure speculation and hardly holds up.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

i think it will be viola or bellamy

Nah, I'd say Bellamy MIGHT have a place in the Heart Pirates although it's unlikely

 

[Mugiwara kun]

and everyone seems to have forgotten Bellamy

 

[Skylar Knight]

Because what you've been saying about her having some kind of ulterior motive beyond servitude to Doffy wasn't speculation?

I never said Sugar was just a female Paramecia, but that possible parallels between her and Robin ends with the fact that they are both female Paramecias who worked closely with the arc's main villain. Working closely was supposed to include playing a crucial role to their plans, but I suppose I was not clear enough on that. Robin and Violet have more parallels between each other. Robin helped Luffy by providing him with an antidote to Crocodile's poison, which would have killed him and cost him his fight against Crocodile.

I prefer not to go off mere guessing, but actually going on what the manga has shown and expanding on that. Is it possible that Sugar could have something to offer the crew? Yes. Has she shown something that she could offer the crew that is worth more than what Violet can? Absolutely not. I can just as easily say things like Gladius will join because it's possible he's an expert helmsman, or Machvise will join because it's possible he's an expert blacksmith.

"I have to make this up to the Young Master!" indicates that a very large part of doing this is simply because of servitude to Doffy. The other part was shown when she showed a strong desire to use her powers again. The deal is pure speculation and hardly holds up.

She actually provided Luffy with an antidote after the fight with Crocodile. She had no idea he'd even survive as long as he did, being poisoned and all. Her plan was never to stop Crocodile, but to keep the information about Pluton to herself, if the ponyglyph they were searching for ever gave out its location. Just like she said herself, she didn't care for the people of Alabasta.

My point is that bringing up skills and abilities is far too early at this point. Of course Viola's could offer more to the Strawhats, but so could many others in the past. That's not what Oda bases his members on.

It does hold up, enough to be considered at least. Also, from what we've seen so far, it doesn't seem like she enjoys turning people into toys, unlike you mentioned before, if I understood you correctly. When she was first introduced, she seemed to have fun just hanging out and running around the palace, but the moment she had to do her job and start turning people into toys, she turned into a grumpy little girl.

 

[Punk Hazard]

She actually provided Luffy with an antidote after the fight with Crocodile. She had no idea he'd even survive as long as he did, being poisoned and all. Her plan was never to stop Crocodile, but to keep the information about Pluton to herself, if the ponyglyph they were searching for ever gave out its location. Just like she said herself, she didn't care for the people of Alabasta.

My point is that bringing up skills and abilities is far too early at this point. Of course Viola's could offer more to the Strawhats, but so could many others in the past. That's not what Oda bases his members on.

It does hold up, enough to be considered at least. Also, from what we've seen so far, it doesn't seem like she enjoys turning people into toys, unlike you mentioned before, if I understood you correctly. When she was first introduced, she seemed to have fun just hanging out and running around the palace, but the moment she had to do her job and start turning people into toys, she turned into a grumpy little girl.

Ah my mistake. That's still offering a crucial help to the Strawhat side though. Luffy would have died without it nevertheless.

Oda is unpredictable on who he makes a Strawhat, but there are many times when he did so based on some kind of use. Sanji, Nami, Franky and Chopper are all examples of that. Skillset does indeed play a vital role, and Violet has the upper hand over Sugar in this category, which makes closer to joining than her. That is the point I'm trying to make.

Nope, it's actually pure speculation. You're basing Sugar joining on a completely hypothetical circumstance than even you can't specify because the manga has never alluded to it.
And though she might not have particularly derived joy from it, it was definitely something she indulged herself in, to the point where it being reversed angered her.

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[Skylar Knight]

Ah my mistake. That's still offering a crucial help to the Strawhat side though. Luffy would have died without it nevertheless.

Oda is unpredictable on who he makes a Strawhat, but there are many times when he did so based on some kind of use. Sanji, Nami, Franky and Chopper are all examples of that. Skillset does indeed play a vital role, and Violet has the upper hand over Sugar in this category, which makes closer to joining than her. That is the point I'm trying to make.

Nope, it's actually pure speculation. You're basing Sugar joining on a completely hypothetical circumstance than even you can't specify because the manga has never alluded to it.
And though she might not have particularly derived joy from it, it was definitely something she indulged herself in, to the point where it being reversed angered her.

Speaking of Viola, wouldn't she be more of a parallel to Vivi? A girl who started to work under her enemies for her father's sake? Even their names sound similar. Plus they both spent considerably amount of time with the Strawhats. Both characters have even been seen riding some sort of animal, even though that could be a mere coincidence.

Hypothetically, it's an understandable reaction, if she and Doffy ever made a deal. Ten years of work to finally get her part of the agreement fulfilled, then it's all lost in less than a day.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Speaking of Viola, wouldn't she be more of a parallel to Vivi? A girl who started to work under her enemies for her father's sake? Even their names sound similar. Plus they both spent considerably amount of time with the Strawhats. Both characters have even been seen riding some sort of animal, even though that could be a mere coincidence.

Hypothetically, it's an understandable reaction, if she and Doffy ever made a deal. Ten years of work to finally get her part of the agreement fulfilled, then it's all lost in less than a day.

And she could also be a parallel to Robin. Not only that, but the original Strawhats consider Vivi a member of their crew, so a parallel between Violet and Vivi strengthens my point in a sense.

It's also an understandable reaction for just mere servitude to Doffy. The Donquixote Pirates have been poster boys for loyalty, not mere deals with Doffy. It makes more sense for it to be loyalty.

 

[Anduril]

Barto joining would be dope.

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[Skylar Knight]

And she could also be a parallel to Robin. Not only that, but the original Strawhats consider Vivi a member of their crew, so a parallel between Violet and Vivi strengthens my point in a sense.

It's also an understandable reaction for just mere servitude to Doffy. The Donquixote Pirates have been poster boys for loyalty, not mere deals with Doffy. It makes more sense for it to be loyalty.

Yes, she could, but most of the points you've made for Viola makes her seem more of a parallel to Vivi, at least to me, after having discussed this with you. Working under her enemy, helping the Strawhats, and even their names are similar. Also, it wouldn't strengthen your point, it'd only be more likely that she won't join, just like Vivi.

Why is it that we've seen the past of each member of the Donquixote family, except for Sugar? If there really was nothing more to it than loyalty, then I doubt Oda would have her join after the other members of the crew. Anyway, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. This is going nowhere.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yes, she could, but most of the points you've made for Viola makes her seem more of a parallel to Vivi, at least to me, after having discussed this with you. Working under her enemy, helping the Strawhats, and even their names are similar. Also, it wouldn't strengthen your point, it'd only be more likely that she won't join, just like Vivi.

Why is it that we've seen the past of each member of the Donquixote family, except for Sugar? If there really was nothing more to it than loyalty, then I doubt he'd have her join after the other members of the crew. Anyway, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. This is going nowhere.

It strengthens my point that Violet is closer to becoming a Strawhat than Sugar.

Uhhh, we've only seen the past of Doffy, Roci, Law and Baby 5. Literally everyone else has not had their past revealed.

 

[Dannie]

Oh god, please not another dude. We have enough of those. We need a bad b!tch to join.

It has to be Violet. I mean, why wouldn't it be Violet?

 

[Skylar Knight]

It strengthens my point that Violet is closer to becoming a Strawhat than Sugar.

Uhhh, we've only seen the past of Doffy, Roci, Law and Baby 5. Literally everyone else has not had their past revealed.

It does not - not if Sugar really is the parallel to Robin, which is unclear at this point. Hell, we don't even know if there is a parallel between the two arcs, even though it seems to be the case.

Sorry about that, meant glimpses of their pasts. We know literally nothing about Sugar and what she did before Dressrosa, while we somewhat know what the rest of the members did around fifteen years ago.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It does not - not if Sugar really is the parallel to Robin, which is unclear at this point. Hell, we don't even know if there is a parallel between the two arcs, even though it seems to be the case.

Sorry about that, meant glimpses of their pasts. We know literally nothing about Sugar and what she did before Dressrosa, while we somewhat know what the rest of the members did around fifteen years ago.

No, it's pretty clear, seeing as Robin was indifferent to the Strawhats but opposed them because she was working with Crocodile, while Sugar openly resents the Strawhats and Usopp for both loyalty and personal reasons. Seriously, other than being a Paramecia who was of great service to the main villain's plans(which Violet also qualifies as), what else establishes a connection between Robin and Sugar?

We have no idea what anyone besides Roci, Doffy, Law and Baby 5 did before becoming a Donquixote Pirate, so they're in the same boat as Sugar.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Oh god, please not another dude. We have enough of those. We need a bad b!tch to join.

It has to be Violet. I mean, why wouldn't it be Violet?

Robin and Nami cover the two type of females in anime world. What would be the personality of a 3rd female?