Itachi vs Tobirama

[blazekev90]

Only thing I disagree with is that Itachi having better skills in cqc. Relying too much on ftg? It's the best for cqc, you can dance around your oppoenent, even if they have better skills. You can pop in and out of their blind spots and easily outmaneuver their strikes for easy counters.

Only because he can "pop in and out" of a situation, that doesn't mean he's superior in cqc. In fact, Tobi has shown little cqc, especially to let us believe he could combat Itachi. As Madara stated, Tobi was good for sneaking his opponents, because someone with the sharingan would've easily predicted his movements.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Only because he can "pop in and out" of a situation, that doesn't mean he's superior in cqc. In fact, Tobi has shown little cqc, especially to let us believe he could combat Itachi. As Madara stated, Tobi was good for sneaking his opponents, because someone with the sharingan would've easily predicted his movements.

No, Tobirama would've outmanoeuvred Madara, if not for his sage mode. Although Tobiramas striking speed wasn't fast enough, Tobirama was able to avoid Madara's strike via ftg and attempt a counter.

But that was sage mode MADARA with Rinnegan and Hashriama DNA. The same Madara who blitzed sage Naruto. And Blind Madara with only sage mode countered Sasuke and avoided all his strikes, despite ems. Tobirama did better than sasuke against an even more powerful version of Madara.

So how you can tell me ITACHI with Ms alone can combat an FTG user in CQC is a joke. Both Minato and Tobirama both used the versatility and speed of FTG to outmanoeuvre Uchiha with Mangekyou. Obitos reaction speed when using his phasing is so fast, no one can hit him when he sees an attack coming, no matter the speed, not even Juubi Madara. But via FTG you can get in the blind spots, confuse the enemy with teleportation and evade every strike. You think it's a coincidence that both MS Obito and MS Izuna were both defeated via FTG...No. It's because FTG is a perfect counter to uchiha's eyes. Unless Itachi is anywhere close to Sage mode Madara with Hashirama cells, he gets blitzed in cqc. Same way Killer Bee was pushing itachi back in cqc, is the same thing an FTG user will do to him.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Tobirama mid-high diff

slightly off topic: is hiraishingiri a shunshin attack or does tobirama need a pre-mark? I'm still confused with his fight against madz. If its the latter I assume he threw the kunai and caught it for the attack

 

[Gold Lightning]

Tobirama mid-high diff

slightly off topic: is hiraishingiri a shunshin attack or does tobirama need a pre-mark? I'm still confused with his fight against madz. If its the latter I assume he threw the kunai and caught it for the attack

He teleports into the enemies blind spot via FTG, then he slashes the opponent from behind.

The strike itself has nothing to do with FTG. It's just when he teleports to he opponent. The slash/strike is just him lunging in with his fastest speed/shunshin.

I honestly don't know why Kishi gave such a thing a name. It's not even a jutsu, it's a manoeuvre, not a jutsu. Same as Hiraishin ni no Dan - it's a manoeuvre combining FTG and rasengan

 

[Kamui Sama]

He teleports into the enemies blind spot via FTG, then he slashes the opponent from behind.

The strike itself has nothing to do with FTG. It's just when he teleports to he opponent. The slash/strike is just him lunging in with his fastest speed/shunshin.

I honestly don't know why Kishi gave such a thing a name. It's not even a jutsu, it's a manoeuvre, not a jutsu. Same as Hiraishin ni no Dan - it's a manoeuvre combining FTG and rasengan

eh so I was right I guess. I wish there was more to it lol

 

[Demonic.]

Only because he can "pop in and out" of a situation, that doesn't mean he's superior in cqc. In fact, Tobi has shown little cqc, especially to let us believe he could combat Itachi. As Madara stated, Tobi was good for sneaking his opponents, because someone with the sharingan would've easily predicted his movements.

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[Gold Lightning]

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And:

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I wonder what itachi has in common with these 2

 

[TRE MERCER]

Tobirama shits... Clones,FTG,Sensing,Speed,Huge chakra reserves is Itachi worst nightmare...

 

[blazekev90]

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#irrelevant as we don't know the circumstances of that fight.

And:

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I wonder what itachi has in common with these 2

Comparing Chain using Tobi to Itachi? For oneTobi doesn't have Itachi's speed. It's one thing to see the strike, it's another to be able to physically react to it. This was explained in part 1 Naruto w/ Lee & Sasuke.

 

[Penguin]

#irrelevant as we don't know the circumstances of that fight.



Comparing Chain using Tobi to Itachi? For oneTobi doesn't have Itachi's speed. It's one thing to see the strike, it's another to be able to physically react to it. This was explained in part 1 Naruto w/ Lee & Sasuke.

You are right. Obito doesn't have Itachi's speed. Although, Itachi doesn't have SM Rinnegan Madara's reactions. o-o

 

[Gold Lightning]

#irrelevant as we don't know the circumstances of that fight.



Comparing Chain using Tobi to Itachi? For oneTobi doesn't have Itachi's speed. It's one thing to see the strike, it's another to be able to physically react to it. This was explained in part 1 Naruto w/ Lee & Sasuke.

Doesn't have itachis speed, however his reaction time with kamui phasing is faster than anything itachi has. And what can itachi actually do to chain tobi if they fought. Tobi would react to everything itachi has.

And you say the izuna fight is irrelevant. Well all your points are irrelevant since Itachi is no where near the level of sage mode Madara.

 

[blazekev90]

You are right. Obito doesn't have Itachi's speed. Although, Itachi doesn't have SM Rinnegan Madara's reactions. o-o

Does he need SM Rinnsegan? We've witness Bee react to Ftg no matter how one may decipher the scans. The same Bee who was had difficulty reacting to Itachi's speed. The main issue with Obito and Minato fight was that Obito tried to combat Minato's S/T. Instead, his ass should have been trying to analyze his whereabouts. Nonetheless, that's neither here nor there.

Itachi's intelligence wouldn't allow him to run straightforward opposite of a FTG user.

 

[Penguin]

Does he need SM Rinnsegan? We've witness Bee react to Ftg no matter how one may decipher the scans. The same Bee who was had difficulty reacting to Itachi's speed. The main issue with Obito and Minato fight was that Obito tried to combat Minato's S/T. Instead, his ass should have been trying to analyze his whereabouts. Nonetheless, that's neither here nor there.

Itachi's intelligence wouldn't allow him to run straightforward opposite of a FTG user.

He did need it. Tobirama first snuck up on Madara and failed, then Tobirama outmaneuvered him and somehow Madara recovered just in the nick of time. We don't know if it was Madara's Rinnegan, but without his enhanced reactions from SM, he would have been dead.

 

[blazekev90]

Doesn't have itachis speed, however his reaction time with kamui phasing is faster than anything itachi has. And what can itachi actually do to chain tobi if they fought. Tobi would react to everything itachi has.

And you say the izuna fight is irrelevant. Well all your points are irrelevant since Itachi is no where near the level of sage mode Madara.

Again, Kamui phasing only requires mental preparation. This is completely different, as reaction speed depends on both mental/physical preparation for any other given user.

 

[blazekev90]

He did need it. Tobirama first snuck up on Madara and failed, then Tobirama outmaneuvered him and somehow Madara recovered just in the nick of time. We don't know if it was Madara's Rinnegan, but without his enhanced reactions from SM, he would have been dead.

He=Itachi, not Madara lol

 

[Gold Lightning]

Does he need SM Rinnsegan? We've witness Bee react to Ftg no matter how one may decipher the scans. The same Bee who was had difficulty reacting to Itachi's speed. The main issue with Obito and Minato fight was that Obito tried to combat Minato's S/T. Instead, his ass should have been trying to analyze his whereabouts. Nonetheless, that's neither here nor there.

Itachi's intelligence wouldn't allow him to run straightforward opposite of a FTG user.

Oh lord. That wasn't even a cqc fight. He anticipated one move and neither oppoenent did anything, Minato could've teleported above, left, right, or away and come back, so many options there. If Minato actaully struck him and then Bee countered, then you have a point, but in this case no you don't, it wasn't even a fight Not a series of assaults from Minato. It's not like Minatos rasen flash dance where he plants 6 kunai around the enemy and utterly confuses them. What will itachi do against an FTG user with multiple shadow clones all teleporting against him. He'll get utterly raped.

And be serious, without sm how would madara have evaded ftg slash from his blind spot? Yes, mental preparation which is important in cqc. Juudara couldn't touch obito, minato couldn't directly, kcm naruto, Guy, Kakashi and bee all at once couldn't either. Itachi doesn't possess a move like kamui that allows him to counter and react such assaults.

 

[blazekev90]

Oh lord. That wasn't even a cqc fight. He anticipated one move and neither oppoenent did anything, Minato could've teleported above, left, right, or away and come back, so many options there. Not a series of assaults from Minato. It's not like Minatos rasen flash dance where he plants 6 kunai around the enemy and utterly confuses them. What will itachi do against an FTG user with multiple shadow clones all teleporting against him. He'll get utterly raped.

And be serious, without sm how would madara have evaded ftg slash from his blind spot? Yes, mental preparation which is important in cqc. Juudara couldn't touch obito, minato couldn't directly, kcm naruto, Guy, Kakashi and bee all at once couldn't either. Itachi doesn't possess a move like kamui that allows him to counter and react such assaults.

Booboo we're talking about his ability to react to Ftg. His reflexes allowed him to do this successfully. Therefore, That point holds. Also, he did this twice, not once.

Incorrect, Gai was able to combat the phasing of Kamui to an extent. His hand speed prevented Obito from touching him, which is important enough. The only thing base Gai failed to do was create an opening to land a strike of his own.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Booboo we're talking about his ability to react to Ftg. His reflexes allowed him to do this successfully. Therefore, That point holds. Also, he did this twice, not once.

Incorrect, Gai was able to combat the phasing of Kamui to an extent. His hand speed prevented Obito from touching him, which is important enough. The only thing base Gai failed to do was create an opening to land a strike of his own.

You react to the strike, not FTG. I wish people would get this right, such common knowledge, yet people are still foolishly saying this. The teleport itself, no one has ever intercepted or reacted to ftg. The attack that comes after has though. Minato didn't attack after he teleported to Bee, so there was nothing for bee to actually counter react to. It's called anitcipation, not to mention you never saw if Bee noticed the mark on his tentacle, nor did you see when Bee placed his sword behind him, if it was before minato teleported, then thats called anticipation. The other time bee "reacted", again was off panel, did you see when he brought put his tentacle? No. Not to mention Minato wasn't fighting Bee, or even looking at him, he was focused on Ay. So not relevant.


Guy knew it was useless to go in with big moves against Obito, he said it himself. Would've been useless for him, hence why he went with his nunchucks in base. He would've never landed a strike, it was 4 vs 1, if he could land a strike, they wouldn't have needed kakashis kamui.

You're trying to use Bee as a means to justify Itachi reacting to ftg in cqc (which wasn't even a battle of killing intent situation), yet not once have you addressed how he deals with multiple ftg opponents. Obito, Izuna all fell prey to FTG in little time. You telling me Itachi won't falter once against ftg lol. He's not better than Tobi in cqc, he's not a sensor, he has poor stamina, and he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. Tobirama wrecks him from all sides.

 

[blazekev90]

@ GL I'll respond later, my phone is dying and that's too long of a post for my current mood lol