Itachi vs Tobirama

[Penguin]

It goes either way, and they are equals. But here are some feats for Tobirama. I will pretend he gets Edo tensei.

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Tobirama directly states that Minato has a better shunshin that he does, so that implies that the kage shunshin'd the whole way to the battlefield since they are edos and don't run out of stamina. Tobirama was also shown to be standing, whereas Hashirama was just getting up, and Hiruzen was still on the ground as seen

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. Now, since speed feats are valid in the A>B>C ways of logic, you can give Tobirama speed feats of Hashirama and Madara, since Hashirama is shown to be as fast as Madara.

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you can see a blinded base Madara blitzing SM Naruto, who has great reactions. He also blitz'd that fodder Sai in the same motion. Hashirama would have reacted to attack, but Madara's chakra rods really ****ed Hashirama up.

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is Hashirama jumping off falling rocks which is a good feat, whilst outrunning a perfect Susano'o armored Kyuubi.

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is Hashirama keeping pace with a TBB that the Kyuubi spat out. That should be enough to show you he out speeds Itachi, who has incredible speed.

His

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was enough to smash a hole in a wall. With the Senju being famous for their adeptness in genjutsu, taijutsu, and ninjutsu, whilst having that powerful of a chakra and possibly the greatest sensory feats so far, it should be clear any genjutsu bar Tsukuyomi will be ineffective on Tobirama.

Tobirama also stalemates Itachi in CQC in the worst case scenario.

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that Tobirama has used kenjutsu against the Uchiha since he was a little kid and it was his fighting style against them over and over. He

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the young Izuna Uchiha, but

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Tobirama prevailed. This shows that he can fight on par with at least MS users in CQC with kenjutsu.

We all know his water element cancels any water or fire Itachi sends his way. Not only that, but the feats Tobirama has shown in part one as a half assed edo should be powered up accordingly since he has more chakra to use in the jutsu. Look at Hashirama's mokuton and compare it to part one.

Now given that Itachi doesn't start off fights with MS active, Tobirama would have time to use Kage Bunshin before Itachi tried using his one shot KO moves. This is a theory, but I think Tobirama invented Kage Bunshin to throw off the Uchiha, since the chakra is evenly distributed and the Uchiha can only see chakra. This makes it very hard to one shot someone who is similar in every way to his Kage Bunshin. Tobirama will be able to sense the build up of chakra in the Uchiha's eyes considering he was the only one

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. If he can sense such a small chakra like the 3T, he can surely sense Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi's build up. Let it be mentioned that he has also seen

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in his life. It was most likely Izuna who used it.

Regarding Susano'o, Tobirama will need to summon at least one edo tensei fodder. After he has done that, he has a good chance of stalling for victory. The edo tensei fodder will bombard Itachi with

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. Do you see those mini Juubi that Gojō Kibaku Fuda has dwarfed? Those are bijuu sized Juubi clones. They were as big as Aoda, Katsuya, or Gamakichi. To prevent himself from dying, which is debatable on whether Itachi can tank this in Susano'o, he would need the full Susano'o and Yata mirror. As he is tanking the explosion, Tobirama can create Kage Bunshin and mark them with the Hiraishin seal and have them split up, marking everything they can with a Hiraishin mark. This means Tobirama would have more than one place to FTG to in case of a Totsuka blitz from Itachi.

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I think they are evenly matched.

I dug up an old counter, and just wanted to hear some opinions.

 

[Demonic.]

Tobirama wins mid/high diff without Edo Tensei.

-Amaterasu is easily dodged with FTG

-Tsukuyomi is avoided with intel. Tobirama spending a lifetime fighting Uchiha and being in charge of them as Hokage would know not to look directly into their eyes. Tobirama being a sensor and user of multi shadow clones just make this easier.

-Susano is not landing a hit on Tobirama who has better reaction feats and reflexes than Minato. Tobirama evades Susano and outlasts Itachi.

 

[Unorthodox]

Finger genjutsu.............

 

[Apêx1]

I dug up an old counter, and just wanted to hear some opinions.
Tobirama directly states that Minato has a better shunshin that he does, so that implies that the kage shunshin'd the whole way to the battlefield since they are edos and don't run out of stamina. Tobirama was also shown to be standing, whereas Hashirama was just getting up, and Hiruzen was still on the ground as seen here. Now, since speed feats are valid in the A>B>C ways of logic, you can give Tobirama speed feats of Hashirama and Madara, since Hashirama is shown to be as fast as Madara. Here you can see a blinded base Madara blitzing SM Naruto, who has great reactions. He also blitz'd that fodder Sai in the same motion. Hashirama would have reacted to attack, but Madara's chakra rods really ****ed Hashirama up. Here is Hashirama jumping off falling rocks which is a good feat, whilst outrunning a perfect Susano'o armored Kyuubi. Here is Hashirama keeping pace with a TBB that the Kyuubi spat out. That should be enough to show you he out speeds Itachi, who has incredible speed.

I'll just go along with this. Madara blitzes SM Naruto when he has attained some Rikudo power, but Hashirama feats and Madara from VOTE are applicable. And the last panel is no crazy speed feat. When you reread that scenario you will notice Hashirama somehow dodged the TBB while in freefall, which cannot be accelerated, all the while landing, and summoning before the TBB has crossed a few meters. Inconsistency or a downplay of TBB's speed, as Hashirama's gravitational pull from when he jumps till he reaches the ground is n different than Konohamaru's. So no, Itachi kept up with KCM Naruto whose speed relatively on the same level as v2 Ay's.

His chakra was enough to smash a hole in a wall. With the Senju being famous for their adeptness in genjutsu, taijutsu, and ninjutsu, whilst having that powerful of a chakra and possibly the greatest sensory feats so far, it should be clear any genjutsu bar Tsukuyomi will be ineffective on Tobirama.

Incorrect, as not only will Tobirama have to realise he is in genjutsu, he has to know when Itachi has put him in a double genjutsu, as he did vs Sasuke. So no, all Genjutsu's will be effective, and even if Tobirama breaks out of Genjutsu, it will be only a few seconds later, at which point Itachi would've done to him what he did to Orochimaru albeit with a pre-existing Crow Bunshin.

Tobirama also stalemates Itachi in CQC in the worst case scenario. It has been shown that Tobirama has used kenjutsu against the Uchiha since he was a little kid and it was his fighting style against them over and over. He stalemated the young Izuna Uchiha, but finally Tobirama prevailed. This shows that he can fight on par with at least MS users in CQC with kenjutsu.

How so? FTG will be no problem for someone no the caliber of Itachi's perceptive skill and reaction speed. Izuna is featless, Itachi beats him 100 times over imo.

We all know his water element cancels any water or fire Itachi sends his way. Not only that, but the feats Tobirama has shown in part one as a half assed edo should be powered up accordingly since he has more chakra to use in the jutsu. Look at Hashirama's mokuton and compare it to part one.

No, an Amateratsu incorporated Katon will plough through any Suiton Tobirama attempts. But then again, I don't see Itachi using it as it's a waste of chakra.

Now given that Itachi doesn't start off fights with MS active, Tobirama would have time to use Kage Bunshin before Itachi tried using his one shot KO moves. This is a theory, but I think Tobirama invented Kage Bunshin to throw off the Uchiha, since the chakra is evenly distributed and the Uchiha can only see chakra. This makes it very hard to one shot someone who is similar in every way to his Kage Bunshin. Tobirama will be able to sense the build up of chakra in the Uchiha's eyes considering he was the only one too sense it. If he can sense such a small chakra like the 3T, he can surely sense Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi's build up. Let it be mentioned that he has also seen enton in his life. It was most likely Izuna who used it.

All Bunshin bar Mokuton Bunshin have clones with identical amounts of chakra. So no, I'm sure he used Suiton Bunshin until he decided Kage Bunshins would benefit his analytical fighting style more. Itachi is not one shotting with Ama or Tsukiyomi as you suggest he would. Itachi will take him down by outplaying him in not only CQC, but also with his Genjutsu and his own Bunshins. Yes, but good thing Itachi has no Enton.

Regarding Susano'o, Tobirama will need to summon at least one edo tensei fodder. After he has done that, he has a good chance of stalling for victory. The edo tensei fodder will bombard Itachi with Gojō Kibaku Fuda. Do you see those mini Juubi that Gojō Kibaku Fuda has dwarfed? Those are bijuu sized Juubi clones. They were as big as Aoda, Katsuya, or Gamakichi. To prevent himself from dying, which is debatable on whether Itachi can tank this in Susano'o, he would need the full Susano'o and Yata mirror. As he is tanking the explosion, Tobirama can create Kage Bunshin and mark them with the Hiraishin seal and have them split up, marking everything they can with a Hiraishin mark. This means Tobirama would have more than one place to FTG to in case of a Totsuka blitz from Itachi.

Gojo Kibaku Fuda is virtually useless in front of a Yata Mirror user who also has the capability of stopping the Edo through Totsuka. Given all Itachi vs Tobirama fights are no intel, I'll assume this one is too. Itachi reacts to this with Susano as easily as he did against Kirin, which is 10000 times faster than Edo explosions. No, those clones that were dwarfed were not the same Bijuu sized clones Gamakichi fought. There were two different Juubi clones, ones that were Sakura's size and ones that were Gamakichi's size, those were Sakura's size. Not debatable at all, v3 Susano stops it as it stopped Kirin, v4 lols at it, v3 with Yata negs it. But then again, you are failing to realise that in every attempt Tobirama tries to use something, Sasuke can subtly make his own Crow Bunshin that someone like Hebi Sasuke could not even perceive due to its fast initiation speed. Tobirama tries Edo explosion and the next second he will see an explosion at Itachi's Susano (thinking he's won, so no he won't make clones and mark them) and the second after that he'll notice that a crow Bunshin has cut him in half after the flock of crow transform into the Crow Clone which was capable of striking someone like DSM Kabuto.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Itachi has no chance. Edo tensei isnt needed.

 

[Haizaki]

Tobirama wins med diff.

 

[Lariatoo]

Itachi wins. But it will not be easy. They are imo (Tobirama with ET and healthy Itachi) the closest to each other in a tier list.

 

[KidGamer65]

Itachi stands no chance of victory.

-In the CQC area, he obviously gets raped. Tobirama's speed and reactions FAR surpass Itachi's, not to mention he probably trumps him in strength and durability.

-When it comes to the Mangekyo, he still has no dice. Clones prevent him from landing Genjutsu on the original. Hiraishin prevents him from landing Amaterasu or any attacks with his Susanoo.

This ends with Susanoo being ported away, Itachi being ported out of it, and then being blitzed by Tobirama. Mid diff victory at best.

 

[Bronze]

Itachi wins.

 

[Draegod]

Itachi stands no chance of victory.

-In the CQC area, he obviously gets raped. Tobirama's speed and reactions FAR surpass Itachi's, not to mention he probably trumps him in strength and durability.

-When it comes to the Mangekyo, he still has no dice. Clones prevent him from landing Genjutsu on the original. Hiraishin prevents him from landing Amaterasu or any attacks with his Susanoo.

This ends with Susanoo being ported away, Itachi being ported out of it, and then being blitzed by Tobirama. Mid diff victory at best.

Speed doesn't mean you are better in Close combat. Having better Skills and fighting style means you are better in CQC, and in terms of skills Itachi definitely is better no diff since all FTG users rely too much on their FTG and surprise element.

True, Ms is useless. But it's also useless on Minato since minato can do everything you listed but also has Toads to help with the strategy.

If Itachi decides to use the big susanoo (has no reason to-to be honest), then yes that strategy works in beating him. Ribcage is enough to fight Tobirama and help against FTG whether he is marked or not at that point. Edo's get sealed so they are a waste.

I agree Tobirama wins, but Minato with an identical or even better arsenal loses to you? How is that if you think Tobirama wins mid diff? And yes I know Tobirama knows more on uchihas, But minato isn't slow on the up take. lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Speed doesn't mean you are better in Close combat. Having better Skills and fighting style means you are better in CQC, and in terms of skills Itachi definitely is better no diff since all FTG users rely too much on their FTG and surprise element.

Ok, point.

True, Ms is useless. But it's also useless on Minato since minato can do everything you listed but also has Toads to help with the strategy.

Yeah, he wins too.

If Itachi decides to use the big susanoo (has no reason to-to be honest), then yes that strategy works in beating him. Ribcage is enough to fight Tobirama and help against FTG whether he is marked or not at that point. Edo's get sealed so they are a waste.

Edos get sealed if he uses Totsuka, which he needs an Armored Susanoo to use, which allows Tobirama to warp it away or warp him out. Not to mention Tobirama can move his Edo zombies around with Hiraishin to protect them just how he did to the Shinobi when they were fighting the Shinju, since they have his chakra in them.

I agree Tobirama wins, but Minato with an identical or even better arsenal loses to you? How is that if you think Tobirama wins mid diff? And yes I know Tobirama knows more on uchihas, But minato isn't slow on the up take. lol

But I think that Minato wins.

 

[Draegod]

Ok, point.


Yeah, he wins too.


Edos get sealed if he uses Totsuka, which he needs an Armored Susanoo to use, which allows Tobirama to warp it away or warp him out. Not to mention Tobirama can move his Edo zombies around with Hiraishin to protect them just how he did to the Shinobi when they were fighting the Shinju, since they have his chakra in them.



But I think that Minato wins.

Oh.lol I remembered in the past You saying Minato looses. It must of been a while back i guess. haha My bad!

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh.lol I remembered in the past You saying Minato looses. It must of been a while back i guess. haha My bad!

Yeah, over a year most likely. Lol

 

[Chazzi]

Itachi negs this racist fodder.

 

[RedRobin]

Oh.lol I remembered in the past You saying Minato looses. It must of been a while back i guess. haha My bad!

(Could you delete some of your PMs I cant get into contact with you. I want to discuss our match up.)

 

[Draegod]

(Could you delete some of your PMs I cant get into contact with you. I want to discuss our match up.)

I temporarily added you as a friend so we can comment instead.

 

[blazekev90]

Itachi obviously wins w/ little difficultly.

 

[Bogard]

Tobirama wins this mid difficulty

 

[Gold Lightning]

Speed doesn't mean you are better in Close combat. Having better Skills and fighting style means you are better in CQC, and in terms of skills Itachi definitely is better no diff since all FTG users rely too much on their FTG and surprise element.

True, Ms is useless. But it's also useless on Minato since minato can do everything you listed but also has Toads to help with the strategy.

If Itachi decides to use the big susanoo (has no reason to-to be honest), then yes that strategy works in beating him. Ribcage is enough to fight Tobirama and help against FTG whether he is marked or not at that point. Edo's get sealed so they are a waste.

I agree Tobirama wins, but Minato with an identical or even better arsenal loses to you? How is that if you think Tobirama wins mid diff? And yes I know Tobirama knows more on uchihas, But minato isn't slow on the up take. lol

Only thing I disagree with is that Itachi having better skills in cqc. Relying too much on ftg? It's the best for cqc, you can dance around your oppoenent, even if they have better skills. You can pop in and out of their blind spots and easily outmaneuver their strikes for easy counters.

 

[Court]

Itachi wins very low diff.​