[Debate] How Does Naruto Or Sasuke Match Up To Madara?

[Xlad]

First and foremost, Madara's hype that he can beat both of them is debunked when

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.

I'll start off with Naruto:

Spoiler

Simply put, he has a better RSM than Madara considering it was given from Hagoromo himself. Plus, Naruto unlike Madara is a true Sage. That's a plus since they are given better benefits compared to pretentious tricks.

Truth Seeker Orbs:

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Trying to use these weapons is meaningless as not only he's immune, but also carries his own set of

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to counter.

Madara's Limbos are only limited from one to four, even after obtaining his other Rinnegan. Madara also started to

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as well, yet the numbers didn't change. Naruto's clones in canon

You must be registered for see links

. He makes

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, and several clones dog-pile each limbo to shit. Not to mention that Limbos can only stay

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, they are not going to last long fighting. They'll be taken down by these clones in a heartbeat.

Based on how they only used Taijutsu, Limbos are concluded that they are only designed to be

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of the original. They are not clones that can replicate ninjutsu of any sorts. So the whole Limbo being nerfed is nothing but wank.

Chibaku Tensei, Rinnegan's strongest technique, was completely countered by Naruto's six Chou Odama TBBRS. [

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][

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] This does not take into account that three other TSBs are

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and that Naruto can

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. So Madara is not going to succeed using CT since they'll get lighted up down to hell.

Senpo Inton Raiha: Countered [

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][

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]
Senpo: Ranton Kouga: Countered [

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]

Madara's TBB: He would use the same method Juubito used.

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and

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. Only Naruto will fly towards one end and tear down the barrier so he doesn't get trapped. [

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][

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] So its meaningless for Madara to trap Naruto and kill him via this method. Not to mention that he's more than fast enough to tear down the tree before launching it. [

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][

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] Or uses

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to slice it down. So using this to kill Naruto is bunk.

Madara will get shot down before he even charges up to use IT. Naruto was

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and had

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than him before they carried Six Paths power. Giving them Six Paths power isn't going to make a difference in this department. Especially when Naruto has the superior RSM compared to Madara. So no, he is not getting up there to cast It. Not when Naruto can as well since he didn't even use flight at that time.

That's it for tonight. I really cannot see how Madara can beat Naruto.

 

[Zzz]

First and foremost, Madara's hype that he can beat both of them is debunked when

You must be registered for see links

.

I'll start off with Naruto:

Spoiler

Simply put, he has a better RSM than Madara considering it was given from Hagoromo himself. Plus, Naruto unlike Madara is a true Sage. That's a plus since they are given better benefits compared to pretentious tricks.

Truth Seeker Orbs:

You must be registered for see links

Trying to use these weapons is meaningless as not only he's immune, but also carries his own set of

You must be registered for see links

to counter.

Madara's Limbos are only limited from one to four, even after obtaining his other Rinnegan. Madara also started to

You must be registered for see links

as well, yet the numbers didn't change. Naruto's clones in canon

You must be registered for see links

. He makes

You must be registered for see links

, and several clones dog-pile each limbo to shit. Not to mention that Limbos can only stay

You must be registered for see links

, they are not going to last long fighting. They'll be taken down by these clones in a heartbeat.

Based on how they only used Taijutsu, Limbos are concluded that they are only designed to be

You must be registered for see links

of the original. They are not clones that can replicate ninjutsu of any sorts. So the whole Limbo being nerfed is nothing but wank.

Chibaku Tensei, Rinnegan's strongest technique, was completely countered by Naruto's six Chou Odama TBBRS. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] This does not take into account that three other TSBs are

You must be registered for see links

and that Naruto can

You must be registered for see links

. So Madara is not going to succeed using CT since they'll get lighted up down to hell.

Senpo Inton Raiha: Countered [

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][

You must be registered for see links

]
Senpo: Ranton Kouga: Countered [

You must be registered for see links

]

Madara's TBB: He would use the same method Juubito used.

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and

You must be registered for see links

. Only Naruto will fly towards one end and tear down the barrier so he doesn't get trapped. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] So its meaningless for Madara to trap Naruto and kill him via this method. Not to mention that he's more than fast enough to tear down the tree before launching it. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] Or uses

You must be registered for see links

to slice it down. So using this to kill Naruto is bunk.

Madara will get shot down before he even charges up to use IT. Naruto was

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and had

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than him before they carried Six Paths power. Giving them Six Paths power isn't going to make a difference in this department. Especially when Naruto has the superior RSM compared to Madara. So no, he is not getting up there to cast It. Not when Naruto can as well since he didn't even use flight at that time.

That's it for tonight. I really cannot see how Madara can beat Naruto.

Madara can make wood clones, which are superior to Naruto's Kagebunshin.
Naruto only gained superior sensing and speed after the Six Paths powerup.
Chibaku Tensei was there to distract them, nothing more.
Naruto doesn't have the Rinnegan, so Madara has a slight advantage. CT is not necessarily Rinnegan's strongest technique. It varies according to the context.
Madara has regeneration.
Madara took a Yoton RS while harmed and he was still rocking just fine.
Naruto was in no way faster in Bijuu Mode. He was slower than Juubi Obito, let alone Madara.


Yeah.

 

[Dondaime Hokage Naruto]

First and foremost, Madara's hype that he can beat both of them is debunked when

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.

I'll start off with Naruto:

Spoiler

Simply put, he has a better RSM than Madara considering it was given from Hagoromo himself. Plus, Naruto unlike Madara is a true Sage. That's a plus since they are given better benefits compared to pretentious tricks.

Truth Seeker Orbs:

You must be registered for see links

Trying to use these weapons is meaningless as not only he's immune, but also carries his own set of

You must be registered for see links

to counter.

Madara's Limbos are only limited from one to four, even after obtaining his other Rinnegan. Madara also started to

You must be registered for see links

as well, yet the numbers didn't change. Naruto's clones in canon

You must be registered for see links

. He makes

You must be registered for see links

, and several clones dog-pile each limbo to shit. Not to mention that Limbos can only stay

You must be registered for see links

, they are not going to last long fighting. They'll be taken down by these clones in a heartbeat.

Based on how they only used Taijutsu, Limbos are concluded that they are only designed to be

You must be registered for see links

of the original. They are not clones that can replicate ninjutsu of any sorts. So the whole Limbo being nerfed is nothing but wank.

Chibaku Tensei, Rinnegan's strongest technique, was completely countered by Naruto's six Chou Odama TBBRS. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] This does not take into account that three other TSBs are

You must be registered for see links

and that Naruto can

You must be registered for see links

. So Madara is not going to succeed using CT since they'll get lighted up down to hell.

Senpo Inton Raiha: Countered [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]
Senpo: Ranton Kouga: Countered [

You must be registered for see links

]

Madara's TBB: He would use the same method Juubito used.

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. Only Naruto will fly towards one end and tear down the barrier so he doesn't get trapped. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] So its meaningless for Madara to trap Naruto and kill him via this method. Not to mention that he's more than fast enough to tear down the tree before launching it. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] Or uses

You must be registered for see links

to slice it down. So using this to kill Naruto is bunk.

Madara will get shot down before he even charges up to use IT. Naruto was

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and had

You must be registered for see links

than him before they carried Six Paths power. Giving them Six Paths power isn't going to make a difference in this department. Especially when Naruto has the superior RSM compared to Madara. So no, he is not getting up there to cast It. Not when Naruto can as well since he didn't even use flight at that time.

That's it for tonight. I really cannot see how Madara can beat Naruto.

That was when he had one eye and when he gained the second he was in control... After he casted IT he came down and he was going to be serious. Naruto our game is over he said... Madara can use IT and Naruto loses (Kaguya used IT before the moon existed on people, moon is for global use), and for what you said he distract him like he did in the manga and IT for one person won't take as much as for the whole planet. He has the Juubi+Holy Tree which give him OP regeneration and way more bijuu chakra than Naruto has... Limbo also is no joke, he has 4 them and Naruto's clones if you remember naruto's clones vanished after Madara came down from casting IT. And even if he seals them that's going to be with both 3 Goudoma + Magnet Rasenshuriken. That's what he needs to seal clones. Madara can make more I think. The DB says that 1 Rinnegan can produce 1 clone and 2 Eyes 4. So the 1 clone of Madara was sealed and after he got the 2 eye he didn't 3 but 4 clones meaning that even one of is sealed he can make another. You forget Madara can use Juubi Dama, Mokuton which Naruto's weakness (do you forget how powerful Jukai Kutan got with the Juubi+Holy Tree boost? Image other Mokuton jutsus like the wood dragon and Mokuton clones). Six Paths abilities, he didn't use them all expect CT and called his meteors raindrops and Naruto used one of his stronget attacks if not the strongest to destroys Madara's meteors. A Shinra Tensei for Madara would be OP. You underestimate Madara a lot... Also Madara already shown that Naruto's Gudoma against him are useles as he can destroy/cut them.

 

[Holy God]

First and foremost, Madara's hype that he can beat both of them is debunked when

You must be registered for see links

.

I'll start off with Naruto:

Spoiler

Simply put, he has a better RSM than Madara considering it was given from Hagoromo himself. Plus, Naruto unlike Madara is a true Sage. That's a plus since they are given better benefits compared to pretentious tricks.

Truth Seeker Orbs:

You must be registered for see links

Trying to use these weapons is meaningless as not only he's immune, but also carries his own set of

You must be registered for see links

to counter.

Madara's Limbos are only limited from one to four, even after obtaining his other Rinnegan. Madara also started to

You must be registered for see links

as well, yet the numbers didn't change. Naruto's clones in canon

You must be registered for see links

. He makes

You must be registered for see links

, and several clones dog-pile each limbo to shit. Not to mention that Limbos can only stay

You must be registered for see links

, they are not going to last long fighting. They'll be taken down by these clones in a heartbeat.

Based on how they only used Taijutsu, Limbos are concluded that they are only designed to be

You must be registered for see links

of the original. They are not clones that can replicate ninjutsu of any sorts. So the whole Limbo being nerfed is nothing but wank.

Chibaku Tensei, Rinnegan's strongest technique, was completely countered by Naruto's six Chou Odama TBBRS. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] This does not take into account that three other TSBs are

You must be registered for see links

and that Naruto can

You must be registered for see links

. So Madara is not going to succeed using CT since they'll get lighted up down to hell.

Senpo Inton Raiha: Countered [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]
Senpo: Ranton Kouga: Countered [

You must be registered for see links

]

Madara's TBB: He would use the same method Juubito used.

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. Only Naruto will fly towards one end and tear down the barrier so he doesn't get trapped. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] So its meaningless for Madara to trap Naruto and kill him via this method. Not to mention that he's more than fast enough to tear down the tree before launching it. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] Or uses

You must be registered for see links

to slice it down. So using this to kill Naruto is bunk.

Madara will get shot down before he even charges up to use IT. Naruto was

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and had

You must be registered for see links

than him before they carried Six Paths power. Giving them Six Paths power isn't going to make a difference in this department. Especially when Naruto has the superior RSM compared to Madara. So no, he is not getting up there to cast It. Not when Naruto can as well since he didn't even use flight at that time.

That's it for tonight. I really cannot see how Madara can beat Naruto.

That's not possible. As you can tell, Madara's Sage Mode consists of the source of all chakra. It is from the Holy Tree. Madara has so much more "Rikudou" chakra than Naruto, which is why his Sage Mode it better. Naruto is a natural sage, but experience isn't really a factor here besides in gathering, which Madara doesn't need due to having so much already.


Same to Naruto, then. Madara is also immune.

He wouldn't send them out just to fight clones, and "gang-banging" is countered by Shinra Tensei. Madara also has wood-clones so he can just make some of those. He'll Use Limbo to combat the original Naruto.

Don't know why this came up. The thread here is under circumstance that they do. It's not proven either way.

It was used as a distraction, and it ended up working, don't you think? He'd oobviously never really use it as an offensive attack against Naruto.

I'd never take into account a cheap way of winning like that, so I'll disregard this section.

As said before, that is a cheap way of winning, but I'll go ahead and argue that Naruto is in no way faster unless he is in his angered state. If anything, they are the same. Let's not forget that he isn't simply getting "shot-down" when there are Chibaku-Tensei flying down at Naruto.

 

[Xlad]

A gangup I see.
Zzzz

Spoiler

Madara can make wood clones, which are superior to Naruto's Kagebunshin.

Based on what? Naruto's clones can summon out avatars, which shits on V3 Susanoo clones.

Naruto only gained superior sensing and speed after the Six Paths powerup.

Lol I didn't compare Juudara to Naruto without RSM. Unless your are saying that Madara (without Juubi) was faster than BSM Naruto, which he isn't.

Chibaku Tensei was there to distract them, nothing more.

And? The only offensive aspect Madara has with Chibaku Tensei is hurl all of them down in one go.

Naruto doesn't have the Rinnegan, so Madara has a slight advantage. CT is not necessarily Rinnegan's strongest technique. It varies according to the context.

Based on what does Naruto not having the Rinnegan gives him a slight disadvantage? Except None of Madara's Rinnegan techniques besides CT forced

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If that was the only technique where Naruto and Sasuke had to pull those extremely destructive techniques, then it must be more powerful than the other Paths.

Madara has regeneration.

Yeah, so does Naruto.

Madara took a Yoton RS while harmed and he was still rocking just fine.

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. That wasn't even on to level of TBBRS. From what I read, immortality is restricted.

Naruto was in no way faster in Bijuu Mode. He was slower than Juubi Obito, let alone Madara.

The hell? Lol I'm not comparing BM/BSM Naruto to Juubito. I'm comparing his body flicker and sensing to Madara before they both had Six Paths Power. Those were just proof as to why he has better feats than Madara.

Dondaime Hokage Naruto

Spoiler

That was when he had one eye and when he gained the second he was in control... After he casted IT he came down and he was going to be serious. Naruto our game is over he said...
Madara can use IT and Naruto loses (Kaguya used IT before the moon existed on people, moon is for global use), and for what you said he distract him like he did in the manga and IT for one person won't take as much as for the whole planet.

Except Naruto will not let him cast IT. He isn't faster than Naruto to do that. And Naruto didn't even fly to catch up to him.

He has the Juubi+Holy Tree which give him OP regeneration and way more bijuu chakra than Naruto has... Limbo also is no joke, he has 4 them and Naruto's clones if you remember naruto's clones vanished after Madara came down from casting IT.

Having way more Bijuu Chakra isn't doing anything. Not when he himself

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of Naruto's new found powers. That's assuming that he would cast IT, which is not happening.

And even if he seals them that's going to be with both 3 Goudoma + Magnet Rasenshuriken. That's what he needs to seal clones. Madara can make more I think.

Then so be it. They will still bond to go back to the original automatically due to time limit.[

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]

The DB says that 1 Rinnegan can produce 1 clone and 2 Eyes 4. So the 1 clone of Madara was sealed and after he got the 2 eye he didn't 3 but 4 clones meaning that even one of is sealed he can make another.

Then Naruto make another clones to take them down.

You forget Madara can use Juubi Dama, Mokuton which Naruto's weakness (do you forget how powerful Jukai Kutan got with the Juubi+Holy Tree boost? Image other Mokuton jutsus like the wood dragon and Mokuton clones).

No, but they don't hold water. Mokuton isn't Naruto's weakness; especially when he destroyed them on these occasions. [

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][

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] That weakness only applies to the Bijuus by themselves, not Jinchuuiki. All of Mokuton jutsus have to reach and subdue Naruto, which in no way or form is happening. He can fly out of their range and blasts them with FRS volley.

Six Paths abilities, he didn't use them all expect CT and called his meteors raindrops and Naruto used one of his strongest attacks if not the strongest to destroys Madara's meteors. A Shinra Tensei for Madara would be OP. You underestimate Madara a lot... Also Madara already shown that Naruto's Gudoma against him are useles as he can destroy/cut them.

That is absolutely not the strongest attack. Lol Plus, Naruto planned to destroy all of the meteors when he can just

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Naruto did that because there were other shinobis on the ground that were in danger.

PerfectSchizoid

Spoiler

That's not possible. As you can tell, Madara's Sage Mode consists of the source of all chakra. It is from the Holy Tree.

What exactly does that do for him? Naruto also has it as well, evidence by the occurrence of Truth Seeker Orbs.

Madara has so much more "Rikudou" chakra than Naruto, which is why his Sage Mode it better. Naruto is a natural sage, but experience isn't really a factor here besides in gathering, which Madara doesn't need due to having so much already.

Madara sense that

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. And he wasn't at his most powerful at the time.

Same to Naruto, then. Madara is also immune.

Good. So we get into that then.

He wouldn't send them out just to fight clones, and "gang-banging" is countered by Shinra Tensei. Madara also has wood-clones so he can just make some of those. He'll Use Limbo to combat the original Naruto.

Shinra Tensei was braced through by a fraction of Base Naruto Shadow Clones. [

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][

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] RSM Naruto clones are tiers ascended above them. Plus, even if they are pushed back by Shinra Tensei, they'll spawn Chakra Arms to the ground to hold themselves.

Kaguya also used Deva Path to take down Shadow Clones.[

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] But there were still several that didn't vanish.[

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] Madara is inferior to Kaguya in terms of power. So his Shinra Tensei isn't going to completely counter all of RSM Naruto's clones. All of the Wood clones aren't going to cut it.

Base Naruto's Chou Odama Rasengan forced Madara to go into V2 Susanoo.[

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][

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] He multiplies the amount of firepower to take down Wood Clones' V3 Susanoos. [

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][

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] This is just a fraction of Kurama's chakra alone. [

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]

Don't know why this came up. The thread here is under circumstance that they do. It's not proven either way.

Then Naruto's clones use Avatars to counter PS.

It was used as a distraction, and it ended up working, don't you think? He'd obviously never really use it as an offensive attack against Naruto.

What offensive capabilities? Hurling them down? Cause that's the only offensive thing about CT. Which are destroyed by FRS barrages. Naruto only need attacks that goes through the meteors to

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, thus ending those CT meteors.

I'd never take into account a cheap way of winning like that, so I'll disregard this section.

You pretty much just conceded to one of my counters. This doesn't negate whatever I just posted that you chose to ignore.

As said before, that is a cheap way of winning, but I'll go ahead and argue that Naruto is in no way faster unless he is in his angered state. If anything, they are the same. Let's not forget that he isn't simply getting "shot-down" when there are Chibaku-Tensei flying down at Naruto.

These are pretty much your concession.

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Naruto uses it when he gets serious, not when he is angered. Even if that's the case, that doesn't change that Naruto still has these speed feats. Madara still has to charge up CT for that to happen. Then Naruto flies up and still use TBBRS to destroy them in one go. Plus, he doesn't have to worry about his BFF

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. So he can uses his attacks freely.

 

[Zzz]

A gangup I see.
Zzzz

Spoiler

Based on what? Naruto's clones can summon out avatars, which shits on V3 Susanoo clones.

Lol I didn't compare Juudara to Naruto without RSM. Unless your are saying that Madara (without Juubi) was faster than BSM Naruto, which he isn't.

And? The only offensive aspect Madara has with Chibaku Tensei is hurl all of them down in one go.

Based on what does Naruto not having the Rinnegan gives him a slight disadvantage? Except None of Madara's Rinnegan techniques besides CT forced

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If that was the only technique where Naruto and Sasuke had to pull those extremely destructive techniques, then it must be more powerful than the other Paths.

Yeah, so does Naruto.

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. That wasn't even on to level of TBBRS. From what I read, immortality is restricted.

The hell? Lol I'm not comparing BM/BSM Naruto to Juubito. I'm comparing his body flicker and sensing to Madara before they both had Six Paths Power. Those were just proof as to why he has better feats than Madara.

Dondaime Hokage Naruto

Spoiler

Except Naruto will not let him cast IT. He isn't faster than Naruto to do that. And Naruto didn't even fly to catch up to him.

Having way more Bijuu Chakra isn't doing anything. Not when he himself

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of Naruto's new found powers. That's assuming that he would cast IT, which is not happening.

Then so be it. They will still bond to go back to the original automatically due to time limit.[

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]

Then Naruto make another clones to take them down.

No, but they don't hold water. Mokuton isn't Naruto's weakness; especially when he destroyed them on these occasions. [

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][

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] That weakness only applies to the Bijuus by themselves, not Jinchuuiki. All of Mokuton jutsus have to reach and subdue Naruto, which in no way or form is happening. He can fly out of their range and blasts them with FRS volley.

That is absolutely not the strongest attack. Lol Plus, Naruto planned to destroy all of the meteors when he can just

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Naruto did that because there were other shinobis on the ground that were in danger.

PerfectSchizoid

Spoiler

What exactly does that do for him? Naruto also has it as well, evidence by the occurrence of Truth Seeker Orbs.

Madara sense that

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. And he wasn't at his most powerful at the time.


Good. So we get into that then.


Shinra Tensei was braced through by a fraction of Base Naruto Shadow Clones. [

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][

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] RSM Naruto clones are tiers ascended above them. Plus, even if they are pushed back by Shinra Tensei, they'll spawn Chakra Arms to the ground to hold themselves.

Kaguya also used Deva Path to take down Shadow Clones.[

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] But there were still several that didn't vanish.[

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] Madara is inferior to Kaguya in terms of power. So his Shinra Tensei isn't going to completely counter all of RSM Naruto's clones. All of the Wood clones aren't going to cut it.

Base Naruto's Chou Odama Rasengan forced Madara to go into V2 Susanoo.[

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][

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] He multiplies the amount of firepower to take down Wood Clones' V3 Susanoos. [

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][

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] This is just a fraction of Kurama's chakra alone. [

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]


Then Naruto's clones use Avatars to counter PS.


What offensive capabilities? Hurling them down? Cause that's the only offensive thing about CT. Which are destroyed by FRS barrages. Naruto only need attacks that goes through the meteors to

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, thus ending those CT meteors.

You pretty much just conceded to one of my counters. This doesn't negate whatever I just posted that you chose to ignore.

These are pretty much your concession.

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Naruto uses it when he gets serious, not when he is angered. Even if that's the case, that doesn't change that Naruto still has these speed feats. Madara still has to charge up CT for that to happen. Then Naruto flies up and still use TBBRS to destroy them in one go. Plus, he doesn't have to worry about his BFF

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. So he can uses his attacks freely.

Scan of Naruto regenerating? There is none. He was never shown using his Sun seal on himself.

Madara's clones can use PS. Good luck shitting on that.

Madara wouldn't go with Chibaku Tensei to take Naruto out. It would be some sort of close-combat fighting, where Preta and Ningendo play a huge role.

You can't compare piercing power to explosions. YRS cut the Shinju in half, yet it didn't cut Madara.