[VS] Reanimated Itachi vs. Sage Mode Minato

[KidGamer65]

Considering one swing destroys the whole landscape, and the AoE of the attack is large. Minato won't even be able to evade let alone get close enough to Susanoo to touch it. There's also the fact that apparently, DB says PS can fly.

 

[closecombat1254]

Lol minato can 50/50 just about anyone

 

[Kagustuchi]

Minato attacks once and reverts to Base, then beats Itachi High Diff (If Healthy, lower end of Mid Diff if he's sick)​

​

 

[RustledJimmies]

Minato attacks once and reverts to Base, then beats Itachi High Diff (If Healthy, lower end of Mid Diff if he's sick)​

​

This is Edo Itachi, so yeah, healthy.

 

[Kagustuchi]

This is Edo Itachi, so yeah, healthy.

Edo changes it to Itachi's win. Edo Itachi is a solid equal to EMS Sasuke without giant Susano'Os. While Healthy is a decent margin weaker than that because of the limited Chakra reserves (Healthy is fanfic, but I equalize his stamina to Danzo fight Sasuke)

*Edit: Lol didn't see the title​

​

 

[LuckyMan]

This is Edo Itachi, so yeah, healthy.

Edo Itachi's capacity is the same as Alive (Sick) Itachi's.

 

[Conspirator.]

Minato stomps.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Edo Itachi's capacity is the same as Alive (Sick) Itachi's.

Alive sick Itachi is the same as alive healthy Itachi other than the former's stamina issues, issues that are non-existent with Edo Itachi as Edo benefits include infinite stamina along with a constant refill of chakra and regeneration, so he's a better form of healthy alive Itachi.

 

[LuckyMan]

Alive sick Itachi is the same as alive healthy Itachi other than the former's stamina issues, issues that are non-existent with Edo Itachi as Edo benefits include infinite stamina along with a constant refill of chakra and regeneration, so he's a better form of healthy alive Itachi.

Where in the manga was it stated that Itachis poor stamina was because of his sickness? This appears to be fanfiction because I don't recall Tobi telling Sasuke this when he revealed the truth. All I know was that he was sick and coughing up blood but never was it stated directly by Tobi or anyone period that Itachis stamina was a result of his sickness. Kimimaro had an incurable unknown sickness that made him cough up a lot of blood too but that still didn't stop Kishi from giving him a 5/5 in Stamina in third DB and its not because of Curse Seal because all stats are measured in base. Orochimaru gets sick every 3 years when his body starts to fail him but that didn't stop him from using Oral Rebirth 4 times against Naruto and that move takes a huge amount of chakra, so much that one use drained Sasuke out. I don't think his sickness attributed to his stamina, he has low stamina period and that is all.

Edo Itachi will still suffer from the capacities (in this case, his stamina) of sick Itachi, just like Edo Nagato still suffers from the capacity (in this case, his mobility) of Cripple Nagato. When I say suffer, I don't mean his stamina will go out and he will collapse because obviously that won't happen in Edo form. I mean he will still be held to the limits of sick Itachi, for example, Sick Itachi launched two Amaterau before needing to rest. Edo Itachi could do the same (which he actually did by the way) but his limit was always 2, so if someone said he'd spam Amaterasu 3 times consecutively that wouldn't possible.

Edos don't have infinite stamina. If the stamina was infinite then it wouldn't have to regenerate. The Edos have the same stamina they had during their lifetimes and once they use a bit, too much, or all of it, it has to regenerate which leaves them vulnerable. In a way it is infinite, but in a way it also not and it can be exploited.

 

[RustledJimmies]

I won't reply to all of this at 4 AM, and most of it is either fanfiction, irrelevant points and/or comparisons with different diseases anyway, so I'll just reply to what matters.

Using sick Itachi's 2 Amaterasu limit is a completely flawed example, as Edo Itachi spammed Susano'o, used Tsukuyomi to free Sasuke from Mugen Onsa and used Amaterasu on Kido's web while still standing, without any traces of fatigue or coughing any blood, whilst sick Itachi was coughing blood and actually died from using Tsukuyomi once, using Amaterasu and using Susano'o for a short time.

Some of this doesn't make sense at all, you say that he can still be worn out from overusing his techs, but then you go all the way to say that he won't collapse because he is in Edo form for gosh knows what reason.

And also, in your initial reply to me, you said that Edo Itachi will have sick Itachi's "capacity" instead of Healthy Itachi's, and since you believe the disease doesn't affect Itachi's stamina, you must also believe that healthy Itachi's stamina = sick Itachi's stamina, so that "capacity" couldn't be referring to stamina, so what exactly is it ?

 

[Apêx1]

I realize your point, and it's wrong. That simple. I'm still waiting for you to prove how chakra signature has anything to do with Hiraishin's warping of targets.



Still waiting for proof that chakra signature is how he chooses what to warp.


Minato states in Chapter 639, that he can warp anything his chakra or he is touching in some way. Whatever is being touched by Minato is eligible to be warped, all that is left there is to choose which one he wants to warp away. I don't know where you got this "Chakra Signature" nonsense from, but it's nothing but fanfiction, a baseless assumption.

Yet claiming Hirashin's ability to teleport things that share chakra signature means you can teleport someone away from all their chakra. Since anything is eligible, the chakra within his opponent is too, thus anyone dies to Hirashin via Minato teleporting someone away from his own chakra, killing him through exhaustion. Then again it doesn't work that way, so chakra signature is a limiter of Hirashin.

Next time, word your post correctly. That portion never mentioned anything about identical chakra signatures.

And where is the proof that two differing chakra signatures is going to hamper Hiraishin? It's been explained how Minato warps what he warps, not interested in your assumptions. As for Sasuke...once again, Minato can choose what he wants to warp away. He didn't need to warp Sasuke's Ribcage away, so he didn't do it.

My bad, replying through my phone while I'm away.

Already gave the reason to my premise, unless you can actually explain how it varies.

I do agree with this to some extent but if you notice, Sasuke's Susanoo was getting destroyed

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and when Minato teleported them, Sasuke appeared without his Susanoo

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Not entirely sure but I think Minato can indeed choose what he wants to teleport.

Sasuke clearly went with his Susano, as portrayed by his Susano chakra that is released by all Susano's. You can see it when his Susano is present and then when his Susano is teleported with him. Same lovus both times, so the Susano couldnt have vanished but the smaller remains have stayed.

And Itachi sitting outside of Susano proves nothing, he wasnt connected to his Susano aura as was Sasuke when utilising v3 vs danzo.

 

[Bogard]

This version of Minato will low diff. Base Minato mid diffs

 

[KidGamer65]

Yet claiming Hirashin's ability to teleport things that share chakra signature means you can teleport someone away from all their chakra.

Wrong, because all chakra isn't the same even if it belongs to the same user. Chakra outside of the body (Susanoo)=/=Chakra inside of the body.

Since anything is eligible, the chakra within his opponent is too, thus anyone dies to Hirashin via Minato teleporting someone away from his own chakra, killing him through exhaustion.

Why in the world are you referencing chakra inside the body? Teleporting Susanoo, chakra manifested into a physical shape, outside of your body has nothing to do with being able to teleport the chakra inside of someone's own body.

Then again it doesn't work that way, so chakra signature is a limiter of Hirashin.

Once again, no, it's not. First "Minato has to distinguish between two things with the same chakra" and now this? Stop with the speculation, assumptions, and the ridiculous comparisons.

My bad, replying through my phone while I'm away.

Already gave the reason to my premise, unless you can actually explain how it varies.

I've explained how it varies, you've given a reason for your premise, but the thing is....nothing in the manga even begins to support, and this last one, not even common sense supports it.

 

[Apêx1]

Wrong, because all chakra isn't the same even if it belongs to the same user. Chakra outside of the body (Susanoo)=/=Chakra inside of the body.

Why in the world are you referencing chakra inside the body? Teleporting Susanoo, chakra manifested into a physical shape, outside of your body has nothing to do with being able to teleport the chakra inside of someone's own body.

Once again, no, it's not. First "Minato has to distinguish between two things with the same chakra" and now this? Stop with the speculation, assumptions, and the ridiculous comparisons.

I've explained how it varies, you've given a reason for your premise, but the thing is....nothing in the manga even begins to support, and this last one, not even common sense supports it.

All chakra will still have the same chakra signature as shown with Hidden Mist. Sharingan couldn't see two identical chakra's, hence this difference is irrelevant. It being solidified or made gaseous makes no difference in terms of the chakra signature itself, nor the color.

You misconstrue. I showed Sasuke's v3 emanating from his own body. That means it is the basic gaseous chakra aura around him, not even solidified.. And again, you fail to explain how Sasuke being the outside part which covers his own chakra (inside) is different than chakra aura (outside) covering Sasuke (inside). It makes no sense. Are you suggesting that since he can't see it, that makes all the difference? Because what the user perceives with his own eyes is irrelevant in terms of Hirashin, thus it is chakra based. The only method of differentiation between chakra is the chakra signature itself, which in Sasauke and Susano's case, won't work. It is not always about having a manga statement to support your claims, it can often be implicative, and in Occam's Razor's system of argumentation, chakra signature being the method of differentiation for Minato would be the case.

 

[KidGamer65]

All chakra will still have the same chakra signature as shown with Hidden Mist. Sharingan couldn't see two identical chakra's, hence this difference is irrelevant. It being solidified or made gaseous makes no difference in terms of the chakra signature itself, nor the color.

Same chakra signature=/=Chakra inside or outside of the body. The chakra itself isn't different. The location of the chakra is different so your example doesn't hold. That simple.

You misconstrue. I showed Sasuke's v3 emanating from his own body.

Meaning the chakra is coming from inside his body, to the outside of his body.

That means it is the basic gaseous chakra aura around him, not even solidified..

Once again, that means the chakra is coming from inside his body, to the outside to form Susanoo. Why do I have to explain this again?

And again, you fail to explain how Sasuke being the outside part which covers his own chakra (inside) is different than chakra aura (outside) covering Sasuke (inside).

Chakra inside the body is not chakra outside of the body. Location is completely different. Minato teleporting something outside of the body doesn't mean that you should assume he can teleport something inside of the body. At the end of the day, it is that simple.

Lol, what's the difference? Are you serious with this nonsense? I really have to explain the difference between this:

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And this?

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It makes no sense. Are you suggesting that since he can't see it, that makes all the difference?

The sheer fact that it's inside his body while Susanoo isn't is the obvious difference.

Because what the user perceives with his own eyes is irrelevant in terms of Hirashin, thus it is chakra based

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Manga has already told us how Minato chooses what to warp, any assumptions on your part are invalid.

The only method of differentiation between chakra is the chakra signature itself, which in Sasauke and Susano's case, won't work.

Minato has told us how he chooses what to warp. Whatever touches his chakra or whatever he is touching is something he can choose to warp. That simple, please stop trying to over complicate things and add functions to the jutsu that clearly don't exist.

If chakra signature was how Minato chose what to warp, then how in the world would he teleport things that have no chakra? Lol.

It is not always about having a manga statement to support your claims, it can often be implicative, and in Occam's Razor's system of argumentation, chakra signature being the method of differentiation for Minato would be the case.

I don't think you know what implicative means, because nothing in this manga even begins to imply that Minato uses the chakra signature of the target to determine what he wants to warp, only your baseless assumptions.

 

[Apêx1]

Same chakra signature=/=Chakra inside or outside of the body. The chakra itself isn't different. The location of the chakra is different so your example doesn't hold. That simple.


Meaning the chakra is coming from inside his body, to the outside of his body.


Once again, that means the chakra is coming from inside his body, to the outside to form Susanoo. Why do I have to explain this again?



Chakra inside the body is not chakra outside of the body. Location is completely different. Minato teleporting something outside of the body doesn't mean that you should assume he can teleport something inside of the body. At the end of the day, it is that simple.

Lol, what's the difference? Are you serious with this nonsense? I really have to explain the difference between this:

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And this?

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The sheer fact that it's inside his body while Susanoo isn't is the obvious difference.


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Manga has already told us how Minato chooses what to warp, any assumptions on your part are invalid.

Minato has told us how he chooses what to warp. Whatever touches his chakra or whatever he is touching is something he can choose to warp. That simple, please stop trying to over complicate things and add functions to the jutsu that clearly don't exist.

If chakra signature was how Minato chose what to warp, then how in the world would he teleport things that have no chakra? Lol.

I don't think you know what implicative means, because nothing in this manga even begins to imply that Minato uses the chakra signature of the target to determine what he wants to warp, only your baseless assumptions.

Look, the whole point that you seem to continuously misconstrue and hold for nonsense is actually viable. You are saying Minato can teleport Sasuke or his Susano away, while he is in direct contact with it from the inside of it. He is either teleporting the Susano away and leaving Sasuke behind, which would be the equivalent of teleporting Sasuke and leaving his inner chakra behind, or he is teleporting Sasuke and keeping the outer Susano behind, which would be the equivalent of teleporting Sasuke's chakra network and leaving Sasuke behind. You cannot say that it makes sense for Sasuke who is inside of his Susano to be teleported, but to say that chakra which is inside of Sasuke cannot be teleported simply because Minato cannot perceive it. Though the rest was kind of a dumbfck argument, so forget them and counter this; I'll concede.

Edit: What's preventing Itachi from simply making a new Susano the second he is teleported? It will most definitely happen in time as Minato's striking speed is half-decent whereas Susano's manifestation speed is godly, as is Itachi's reaction speed.

 

[KidGamer65]

Look, the whole point that you seem to continuously misconstrue and hold for nonsense is actually viable. You are saying Minato can teleport Sasuke or his Susano away, while he is in direct contact with it from the inside of it. He is either teleporting the Susano away and leaving Sasuke behind, which would be the equivalent of teleporting Sasuke and leaving his inner chakra behind, or he is teleporting Sasuke and keeping the outer Susano behind, which would be the equivalent of teleporting Sasuke's chakra network and leaving Sasuke behind. You cannot say that it makes sense for Sasuke who is inside of his Susano to be teleported, but to say that chakra which is inside of Sasuke cannot be teleported simply because Minato cannot perceive it. Though the rest was kind of a dumbfck argument, so forget them and counter this; I'll concede.

Please stop with this comparison. I don't know why you think it's so valid but it's not. Sasuke being inside Susanoo isn't equivalent to Sasuke's chakra network being inside his body, nor is his Susanoo being outside of him equivalent to him being outside while his chakra network is inside. Perception isn't even the issue here. The issue is, Chakra Pathway System and Susanoo are COMPLETELY different. In no way are they similar besides the fact that they are both chakra. Why would teleporting chakra on the outside of someone's body mean that you can teleport them away and leave the chakra inside their body behind? Why it would mean that you can teleport the chakra inside and leave them behind? There is literally no correlation here for you to make a real comparison. It's chakra, and it's on the outside of his body isn't enough.

It being chakra, and it being outside his body are literally the only things you have, yet you are trying to make this comparison, completely ignoring the fact that the chakra pathway system is not the same as Susanoo. (Which has proven to be able to be separated from it's user, and which is a physical armor made of chakra) Nor can Minato even make contact with someone's chakra pathway system even if it were possible to teleport it away.

Can Gaara rip someone's chakra out of their body? Nope.


You are grasping at straws at this point, cause I can't even see why anyone would think that comparison makes sense.

Edit: What's preventing Itachi from simply making a new Susano the second he is teleported? It will most definitely happen in time as Minato's striking speed is half-decent whereas Susano's manifestation speed is godly, as is Itachi's reaction speed.

As shown with Madara and Gaara. Susanoo can't be used again until the first one completely dissolves, which is why he needed Preta Path to absorb Susanoo, and why he didn't use it again until the first one he used was gone.

 

[Apêx1]

Please stop with this comparison. I don't know why you think it's so valid but it's not. Sasuke being inside Susanoo isn't equivalent to Sasuke's chakra network being inside his body, nor is his Susanoo being outside of him equivalent to him being outside while his chakra network is inside. Perception isn't even the issue here. The issue is, Chakra Pathway System and Susanoo are COMPLETELY different. In no way are they similar besides the fact that they are both chakra. Why would teleporting chakra on the outside of someone's body mean that you can teleport them away and leave the chakra inside their body behind? Why it would mean that you can teleport the chakra inside and leave them behind? There is literally no correlation here for you to make a real comparison. It's chakra, and it's on the outside of his body isn't enough.

It being chakra, and it being outside his body are literally the only things you have, yet you are trying to make this comparison, completely ignoring the fact that the chakra pathway system is not the same as Susanoo. (Which has proven to be able to be separated from it's user, and which is a physical armor made of chakra) Nor can Minato even make contact with someone's chakra pathway system even if it were possible to teleport it away.

Can Gaara rip someone's chakra out of their body? Nope.


You are grasping at straws at this point, cause I can't even see why anyone would think that comparison makes sense.




As shown with Madara and Gaara. Susanoo can't be used again until the first one completely dissolves, which is why he needed Preta Path to absorb Susanoo, and why he didn't use it again until the first one he used was gone.

Makes sense to me. I'll just agree to disagree as you keep bringing up physical and chakra based capabilities, which makes no sense. Some Susano users utilise an aura that emanates from inside of them, whereas others at some occasions tend to be within their Susano with no aura present. I don't know why, but I do know it is true. If there is an aura, then you can't teleport the user. If there is no aura, then you obviously can as there is no contact between the user and the Susano in the first place. Sasuke's chakra aura emanates; it's also coming from inside of him. The Susano only manifests a few inches from his body, thus it is impossibly to physically remove him from something gaseous. It's like saying Gaara can remove Ay's Raiton v2 shroud, when he obviously can't. When Madara was removed from Susano, he had no shroud. When Itachi was outside of Susano, he had no shroud. Sasuke inside of his Susano did, and that's what my point is suggesting. When Minato teleported Sasuke and Naruto, Susano came along with him, yet there was no reason to take along a breaking Susano; further supporting, but not proving my point. I will repeat, Minato cannot choose every single thing he teleports, Susano aura is like an extension of his chakra, it is being released from inside of him and is thus connected to every part of Sasuke's body. Minato has never accomplished a teleportation such as this, he cannot choose to teleport a coin that is sitting inside of a football, while leaving the football behind. There's literally no basis for this, I have yet to see any examples of Minato teleporting two things that are directly connected to every part of each other. Inb4 Gaara can rip out the coin, so Minato can too, when Hirashin works on no physical basis in the first place..

 

[KidGamer65]

Makes sense to me. I'll just agree to disagree as you keep bringing up physical and chakra based capabilities, which makes no sense. Some Susano users utilise an aura that emanates from inside of them, whereas others at some occasions tend to be within their Susano with no aura present. I don't know why, but I do know it is true. If there is an aura, then you can't teleport the user. If there is no aura, then you obviously can as there is no contact between the user and the Susano in the first place.

The aura appears when they bring out Susanoo, and then it grows into the full construct. That is the same all the time. I'm not seeing whatever difference you are trying to bring up here. And yes, you can teleport to the user because they are inside the Susanoo, and Susanoo is not hollow, it's chakra inside and out, chakra that the user is touching, and when Minato touches Susanoo, he is indirectly touching the user.

Sasuke's chakra aura emanates; it's also coming from inside of him. The Susano only manifests a few inches from his body, thus it is impossibly to physically remove him from something gaseous.

Dafuq? His aura starts as an aura and becomes a full sized, physical construct. Thus it can be warped away. That simple. I can use this same logic to say that Gaara shouldn't have been able to separate Madara from Susanoo, but he did.

It's like saying Gaara can remove Ay's Raiton v2 shroud, when he obviously can't.

If only Susanoo and Raiton Armor were the same, but they aren't. Susanoo is giant, physical armor. Raiton Armor isn't.

When Madara was removed from Susano, he had no shroud. When Itachi was outside of Susano, he had no shroud. Sasuke inside of his Susano did, and that's what my point is suggesting

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1. Scan?

2. Irrelevant. Doesn't change the fact that Susanoo is physical, and can be warped away. It's not some "gaseous" substance.

When Minato teleported Sasuke and Naruto, Susano came along with him, yet there was no reason to take along a breaking Susano; further supporting, but not proving my point. I will repeat, Minato cannot choose every single thing he teleports,

Yeah, a ribcage Susanoo.

Wrong. Manga has shown that he can be in contact with multiple things, but only teleport one thing. Bunta example already proved that.

Susano aura is like an extension of his chakra, it is being released from inside of him and is thus connected to every part of Sasuke's body.

Extension of his chakra? It is his chakra made into a physical shape. It being connected to his body doesn't change the fact it can be warped away. It coming from his body doesn't change the fact that it can be warped away.

Minato has never accomplished a teleportation such as this,

Not proof that it's not possible.

he cannot choose to teleport a coin that is sitting inside of a football, while leaving the football behind.

Not only will he not know that a coin is inside the football, how is he making contact with the coin inside the football? How does this change the fact that Susanoo itself can be warped away? As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't.

There's literally no basis for this, I have yet to see any examples of Minato teleporting two things that are directly connected to every part of each other. Inb4 Gaara can rip out the coin, so Minato can too, when Hirashin works on no physical basis in the first place..

And I have yet to see one shred of valid evidence that suggest this is an issue.

 

[Apêx1]

The aura appears when they bring out Susanoo, and then it grows into the full construct. That is the same all the time. I'm not seeing whatever difference you are trying to bring up here. And yes, you can teleport to the user because they are inside the Susanoo, and Susanoo is not hollow, it's chakra inside and out, chakra that the user is touching, and when Minato touches Susanoo, he is indirectly touching the user.


Dafuq? His aura starts as an aura and becomes a full sized, physical construct. Thus it can be warped away. That simple. I can use this same logic to say that Gaara shouldn't have been able to separate Madara from Susanoo, but he did.

Didn't seem to be that way with Sasuke [

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]. The aura is emanating from his body. The aura was present while the construct was manifested from its outermost part. SO they are in contact indirectly, but this indirect contact links all the way to within Sasuke, who is manifesting his own chakra that is being generated from within him.

But again, Madara didn't seem to be employing this Susano aura.

If only Susanoo and Raiton Armor were the same, but they aren't. Susanoo is giant, physical armor. Raiton Armor isn't.

Susano aura and Raiton armour are, so your point is moot.
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1. Scan?

2. Irrelevant. Doesn't change the fact that Susanoo is physical, and can be warped away. It's not some "gaseous" substance.

Addressed. Susano is being manifested from the gaseous substance which is brought forth from within.

Yeah, a ribcage Susanoo.

Wrong. Manga has shown that he can be in contact with multiple things, but only teleport one thing. Bunta example already proved that.

And the difference a Ribcage Susano makes is?

But Bunta is in contact with a part of Kurama, he is not completely engulfing him.

Extension of his chakra? It is his chakra made into a physical shape. It being connected to his body doesn't change the fact it can be warped away. It coming from his body doesn't change the fact that it can be warped away.

But then that would mean that it's being separated from within him as it is emanating from inside of him. He is warping it away, meaning he can warp away chakra from inside of him as I previously claimed; as he is doing it here albeit on a smaller scale.

Not proof that it's not possible.

No reason to believe it is if he hasn't shown it. He's only capable of what we've seen from him, and this isn't something he's shown.

Not only will he not know that a coin is inside the football, how is he making contact with the coin inside the football? How does this change the fact that Susanoo itself can be warped away? As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't.

But now you are suggesting that indirect contact with the coin is not sufficient? Ironic. Now you are also suggesting Minato needs to perceive something to warp it, when that is not the case. It seems you are the one who has the false notion of how Hirashin works. Susano is in direct contact of Sasuke's every part. He cannot teleport it and leave Sasuke behind, or teleport Sasuke and leave Susano behind. They are directly connected as is his chakra connected to his chakra network. As is one cell to another. They are bound to each other directly, and there is 0 possibility for Minato to warp it. It's like saying Minato can FTG while using KCM cloak and leave the cloak behind while doing so. I don't see any basis for it, as that would mean he can also teleport his cloak to another location.

And I have yet to see one shred of valid evidence that suggest this is an issue.

I don't need to provide evidence for something that you are claiming is possible, when manga never suggested it is. If you want it to hold, you're the one who would have to prove it possible; as it being possible makes little sense at all.