MS Sasuke VS Ay

Who wins and what difficulty?


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ARGUS

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Sasuke med high difficulty...

Sasuke easily showed he can keep up with with that scan being brought to the table backs my claims up. Genjutsu will finish Ei isn't trained in no shape or form to fight an Enemy without look at them... Also Ei look in Sasukes eyes not but .
Umm, V1 Ay canonically didnt get caught in a genjutsu, what makes you think he will get caught again, let alone V2,
and V1 Ay fought 5 madaras, with each of them carrying V3 susanoos, with superior precog to MS sasuke, yet he didnt get caught under a genjutsu even once,
he only got caught and that was V1 Ay,

sasuke here doesnt have the diversions, nor does he have a way to pin Ay down, nor would Ay be stupid enough to get caught under a genjutsu when he didnt get caught by 5 madaras, who have superior precog and V3 susanoos active, with only using V1
V2 Ay cant even be tracked by Sasuke, so genjutsu is just not happening, not in a million years

Cee proves that Raikage needs to prep his Shunsui to with that being said Ei isn't constantly dodging Amaterasu seeing as he needs to prep his shunsui. What makes this even worst is the only way he's able to know Amaterasu is coming is via eye-contact which he will be one-shotted with Genjutsu if he looks at Sasuke and if he doesn't he dies via Amaterasu seeing as he wouldn't have seen it coming therefore he wouldn't have time for a shunsui means Ei loses...
Sorry but amaterasu also requires to be prepped, infact it takes a lot of time, when nagato was able to sense and even warn naruto and bee of amaterasu before itachi even executed it,
all , and its actually a mode, he can use its speed throughout the mode, as its just a RNY, where more chakra is pumped up to gain more speed, nothing more,
and Ay certainly has the bijuu level reserves to maintain it and laugh at alll of sasukes attacks with it,

and Ay doesnt need to look at the flames head on, when he has more than enough reflexes to react and evade the flames before they land on him, not to mention that sasuke wont be able to see Ay in his LoS due to the latters speed, meaning that amaterasu is just draining him out even more

Completely countered...
Nope, iits not countered at all
--genjutsu is not happening when V1 Ay didnt get caught by 5 madaras with superior precog, and when he didnt get caught against sasuke in canon either, and V2 Ay cant even be tracked by sasuke so that is just out of the picture here
--amatearsu is also garbage to Ay here, when his V2 already shat on it in canon in terms of speed and interms of reflexes
 

Misconception

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Umm, V1 Ay canonically didnt get caught in a genjutsu, what makes you think he will get caught again, let alone V2,
and V1 Ay fought 5 madaras, with each of them carrying V3 susanoos, with superior precog to MS sasuke, yet he didnt get caught under a genjutsu even once,
he only got caught and that was V1 Ay,

sasuke here doesnt have the diversions, nor does he have a way to pin Ay down, nor would Ay be stupid enough to get caught under a genjutsu when he didnt get caught by 5 madaras, who have superior precog and V3 susanoos active, with only using V1
V2 Ay cant even be tracked by Sasuke, so genjutsu is just not happening, not in a million years


Sorry but amaterasu also requires to be prepped, infact it takes a lot of time, when nagato was able to sense and even warn naruto and bee of amaterasu before itachi even executed it,
all , and its actually a mode, he can use its speed throughout the mode, as its just a RNY, where more chakra is pumped up to gain more speed, nothing more,
and Ay certainly has the bijuu level reserves to maintain it and laugh at alll of sasukes attacks with it,

and Ay doesnt need to look at the flames head on, when he has more than enough reflexes to react and evade the flames before they land on him, not to mention that sasuke wont be able to see Ay in his LoS due to the latters speed, meaning that amaterasu is just draining him out even more


Nope, iits not countered at all
--genjutsu is not happening when V1 Ay didnt get caught by 5 madaras with superior precog, and when he didnt get caught against sasuke in canon either, and V2 Ay cant even be tracked by sasuke so that is just out of the picture here
--amatearsu is also garbage to Ay here, when his V2 already shat on it in canon in terms of speed and interms of reflexes
Sir you realize you didn't counter anything?

You keep saying Madara didn't catch Ei in genjutsu until he was held down but i ask you did he ever try before? No.... Sasuke clearly didn't try to use genjutsu on Ei because he had multiple chances to and he ignored them. Plus everytime Ei looked directly into Sasuke eyes he stated it himself... his Prepped Shunsui did. Also in that same scan Sasuke put up his Enton wall all before he attacked he got hit because he didn't think Ei would stike hell neither did . He clearly landed that hit because of the element of surprise. Nagato is a sensor so mentioning that is useless seeing as Naruto and Bee didn't notice neither would Ei. One more time Ei caught Sasuke with the element of Surprise he briefly escaped his Los via prepped shunsui Sasuke reacted to his striking speed hell he used enton all before he could strike as well. Also he doesn't even need to keep Susanoo up seeing as you can put Susanoo on much faster than Ei can attack Itachi blocking Kirin is a prime example.

Zetsu says Kirin strikes at of a sec which is clearly much faster than Ei. Itachi didn't have Susanoo up when which means Susanoo can be put up roughly around 1/1000 of a sec so no he doesn't need to have Susanoo active all the time.

Just Concede already this is hopeless for you.​
 

LuckyMan

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Sir you realize you didn't counter anything?​
Saying Sasuke never tried to use Genjutsu on Ay is not a valid argument unless it was stated otherwise or implied for some reason that he couldn't or didn't want to use it against him.

Also, all the evidence leads us to the conclusion that he didn't use it because he couldn't. Ay states Sasukes eyes are too slow to match him. So why attempt something here you need someone in LoS? See? Karin states Ay is impossibly fast for Sasukes eyes so since he can't track him he'll just hold up a 360 degree defense. See now? Cee states not even the Sharingan can match Ays speed when he uses that Raiton Armor. Are you getting the point? All the evidence debunks that claim, which is not even a valid argument anyway as I said earlier. Also, Ay fighting 5 EMS/Rinnegan Legged V3 Susanoo Madara at once (all of which have better precog than MS Sasuke, Susanoo..... actually better everything) just puts the icing on the cake and debunks any and all Genjutsu arguments there is especially since Madara tried to use Genjutsu only when Ay was caught off guard which leads to the conclusion that he simply couldn't when he as on guard, just like Sasuke.
 
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Unorthodox

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>Sasuke goes on Hawk, yet still can't hit Ay with anything.
Sasuke's uses amaterasu's heat then Kirin GG Ei

Saying Sasuke never tried to use Genjutsu on Ay is not a valid argument unless it was stated otherwise or implied for some reason that he couldn't or didn't want to use it against him.

Also, all the evidence leads us to the conclusion that he didn't use it because he couldn't.
Assumptions......
 

ARGUS

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Sir you realize you didn't counter anything?

You keep saying Madara didn't catch Ei in genjutsu until he was held down but i ask you did he ever try before? No.... Sasuke clearly didn't try to use genjutsu on Ei because he had multiple chances to and he ignored them. Plus everytime Ei looked directly into Sasuke eyes he stated it himself...
Actually everything was countered,
when V1 Ay didnt get caught by 5 Madaras, with each of them having superior precog, to Sasuke, and using superior susanoo to sasuke, then how the hell is sasuke catching Ay under a genjutsu,
furthermore genjutsu isnt instant either, and when sasuke failed to land a genjutsu or even attempt genjutsu on Ay when its IC for him to do so, is a clear indication that he knows its not getting him anywhere at all,

his Prepped Shunsui did. Also in that same scan Sasuke put up his Enton wall all before he attacked he got hit because he didn't think Ei would stike hell neither did .
@Bold - read the chapter again, because its funny that you cut out the entire panel and brought out an irrelevant scan where sasuke looked back at Ay especially when the , due to the flames covering his susanoo
and in what world did sasuke track Ays speed, when he is clearly meaning that he couldnt track him, let alone keep up with him

and what on earth is prepped shunshin exactly?, Ays can access his speed in V2 just fine, not to mention that his side step most likely wasnt even his top speed, seeing how easily he evaded the jutsu,
furthermore amaterasu iis even more of a garbage when its based on sasukes LoS, and seeing how he cant track Ay, means that the jutsu isnt even properly landed, and is just wasting his chakra,
Ay being able to evade it with his sheer speed, is just icing on the cake


He clearly landed that hit because of the element of surprise. Nagato is a sensor so mentioning that is useless seeing as Naruto and Bee didn't notice neither would Ei.
doesnt matter if Ay is not a sensor, amaterasu still requires prep and its symptoms are well apparent before the flames are even executed,

One more time Ei caught Sasuke with the element of Surprise he briefly escaped his Los via prepped shunsui Sasuke reacted to his striking speed hell he used enton all before he could strike as well. Also he doesn't even need to keep Susanoo up seeing as you can put Susanoo on much faster than Ei can attack Itachi blocking Kirin is a prime example.
When Sasuke cant react to Ay or locate him, then he cant risk not having the susanoo up, since he would not know when exactly Ay attacks him, and blows his chest off,
Itachi managed to activate susanoo up for kirin, since sasuke took moree than enough time to introduce the jutsu to him, thus giving itachi enough time to pump the chakra before kirin is landed
and Lol sasuke didnt react to shit. he put on the enton shield as a sign of precaution so that Ay doesnt recklessly attack him,
the element of surprise and the prepped shunshin argument you have is still not cutting it here,

Zetsu says Kirin strikes at of a sec which is clearly much faster than Ei. Itachi didn't have Susanoo up when which means Susanoo can be put up roughly around 1/1000 of a sec so no he doesn't need to have Susanoo active all the time.
Already debunked above,
susanoo activation may be slow but sasuke resorting to combat without it is just a suicide since he would never know when Ay pops out and kills him off,

Just Concede already this is hopeless for you.
you have yet to prove how sasuke lands a hit on Ay, and you have yet to prove how sasuke tracks Ay,
your argument of Sasuke putting Ay under a genjutsu when Ay didnt get caught in canon under much worse conditions, and when sasuke cant locate him is a joke,
your argument of some prepped shunshin is also not valid here, when Ay evaded Amaterasu from a mere side sttep, and everything else is evaded from V1 shunshin alone,
and lastly, your premise of sasuke resorting to combat without susanoo is just laughable when he hhas no chance of physically reacting to Ay, thus giving the latter a silver platter to kill sasuke off

i dont concede until someone gives a valid argument, and you my friend you have not done that here
 

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Ay would still cause a lot of pressure with his speed and attacks to Susanoo, which Sasuke can't keep activated for long, especially when being attacked on constant.

Ay mid diff.
 

LuckyMan

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Sasuke's uses amaterasu's heat then Kirin GG Ei



Assumptions......
They aren't assumptions. Its factual evidence based on what happened in the Manga. Sasuke used Genjutsu on all his opponents in his fights but doesn't use it on Ay. Weird right? Then we get all these statements from the characters saying Sasukes eyes can't track Ay and to even use Genjutsu on Ay he needs him in his LoS, something that can't be accomplished if you can't track someones whereabouts.

Sasuke used Genjutsu on Naruto in early part 1 to talk to Kyuubi.
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Orochimaru
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Juugo
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Deidara
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Itachi
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Bee
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Cee
Sasuke used Genjutsu on Danzo

Thats virtually everyone he has went up against through the entirety of part 2. In all of those fights he used some form of Genjutsu yet against Ay he didn't then with the statements that were about how the Raiton Armor > Sharingan the only thing we are left with is that he couldn't and thats that.
 

Misconception

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Saying Sasuke never tried to use Genjutsu on Ay is not a valid argument unless it was stated otherwise or implied for some reason that he couldn't or didn't want to use it against him.

Also, all the evidence leads us to the conclusion that he didn't use it because he couldn't. Ay states Sasukes eyes are too slow to match him. So why attempt something here you need someone in LoS? See? Karin states Ay is impossibly fast for Sasukes eyes so since he can't track him he'll just hold up a 360 degree defense. See now? Cee states not even the Sharingan can match Ays speed when he uses that Raiton Armor. Are you getting the point? All the evidence debunks that claim, which is not even a valid argument anyway as I said earlier. Also, Ay fighting 5 EMS/Rinnegan Legged V3 Susanoo Madara at once (all of which have better precog than MS Sasuke, Susanoo..... actually better everything) just puts the icing on the cake and debunks any and all Genjutsu arguments there is especially since Madara tried to use Genjutsu only when Ay was caught off guard which leads to the conclusion that he simply couldn't when he as on guard, just like Sasuke.
Saying he didn't is the most logical seeing as there was no indication he didn't or hell even one that he even tried so saying he did try to use it but he couldn't is a clear case of bias just to fit your argument... To slow to match his speed and that was just a mere presumption on Ei behalf seeing as so it's clear that Ei was wrong... Hell ... What Karin said was wrong seeing as Sasuke clearly seen Ei before he attacked him so therefore he was tracked. Same thing goes for Cee what he said was proved from by Sasuke just like V1 Ei said Sasuke couldn't track him yet he did and managed to land blows while dodging his attack so Sasuke already proved Karin and Cee wrong in the same Manga scan. Also all the times that Ei looked directly into Sasuke's eyes he was sitting still so please explain if he tried Genjutsu why wouldn't it have worked on a still opponent?​


Actually everything was countered,
when V1 Ay didnt get caught by 5 Madaras, with each of them having superior precog, to Sasuke, and using superior susanoo to sasuke, then how the hell is sasuke catching Ay under a genjutsu,
furthermore genjutsu isnt instant either, and when sasuke failed to land a genjutsu or even attempt genjutsu on Ay when its IC for him to do so, is a clear indication that he knows its not getting him anywhere at all,

Ei was standing directly still when he looked into Sasuke if he tried genjutsu why wouldn't it have worked? Please explain this to me? Genjutsu isn't instant? and yes it was seeing as he lost consciousness before he hit the grund he he was roughly 8ft from it so yes Genjutsu does happen instant or very near instant. ... So that debunks he was in character arguement... ...​


@Bold - read the chapter again, because its funny that you cut out the entire panel and brought out an irrelevant scan where sasuke looked back at Ay especially when the , due to the flames covering his susanoo
and in what world did sasuke track Ays speed, when he is clearly meaning that he couldnt track him, let alone keep up with him

and what on earth is prepped shunshin exactly?, Ays can access his speed in V2 just fine, not to mention that his side step most likely wasnt even his top speed, seeing how easily he evaded the jutsu,
furthermore amaterasu iis even more of a garbage when its based on sasukes LoS, and seeing how he cant track Ay, means that the jutsu isnt even properly landed, and is just wasting his chakra,
Ay being able to evade it with his sheer speed, is just icing on the cake
I clearly said he got out of Sasuke Los via shunsui he didn't stop it's just that his striking speed is clearly slow also i guessed ? No it's clearly that there showing the striking speed of an attack not someone stopping im pretty sure you knew that though just needed something to try and in-force you excuses... You act as if that's v2 Ei casual running speed when it clearly is not ... Yes Ei can escape his Los via prepped shunsui anything less means no also his striking speed allows Sasuke to react to his attacks which you seem to not grasp these facts for some reason... Prepped shunsui is when someone sits still and focus there chakra for i quick burst of speed which Raikage clearly did... If it was a mere side step he wouldn't have set there to build up chakra... 1- Ei only dodged Amaterasu because of prepped shunsui... Don't try to claim that not the only way he couldn dodge it because if it wasn't he wouldn't have used it anyways if he could casually dodge it there would have been no point to prep his shunsui... If Raikage constantly avoiding eye contact how will he know is Amaterasu is coming? He isn't just dodging it regularly if that's what you think.​



doesnt matter if Ay is not a sensor, amaterasu still requires prep and its symptoms are well apparent before the flames are even executed,


When Sasuke cant react to Ay or locate him, then he cant risk not having the susanoo up, since he would not know when exactly Ay attacks him, and blows his chest off,
Itachi managed to activate susanoo up for kirin, since sasuke took moree than enough time to introduce the jutsu to him, thus giving itachi enough time to pump the chakra before kirin is landed
and Lol sasuke didnt react to shit. he put on the enton shield as a sign of precaution so that Ay doesnt recklessly attack him,
the element of surprise and the prepped shunshin argument you have is still not cutting it here,
Eye bleeding is the symptoms which requires eye contact to know this and if he looks at him genjutsu ends the latter. He can react to Ei striking speed seeing as he clearly seen him before he striked... Wait when was it established that you needed to pump chakra in your body to activate Susanoo? Itachi Susanoo wasn't up when Kirin left the sky which means he pulled Susanoo out within the 1/1000 of a sec weather it was pumped(LMAO) into his body or not(LMAO).​


Already debunked above,
susanoo activation may be slow but sasuke resorting to combat without it is just a suicide since he would never know when Ay pops out and kills him off,
No you didn't... Susanoo activation may be slow? Didn't i already prove to you how fast Susanoo can be put on? Considering he put up a Enton wall and looked directly at Ei before he attacked i see no reason why Susanoo can't come up before he can attack...​


you have yet to prove how sasuke lands a hit on Ay, and you have yet to prove how sasuke tracks Ay,
your argument of Sasuke putting Ay under a genjutsu when Ay didnt get caught in canon under much worse conditions, and when sasuke cant locate him is a joke,
your argument of some prepped shunshin is also not valid here, when Ay evaded Amaterasu from a mere side sttep, and everything else is evaded from V1 shunshin alone,
and lastly, your premise of sasuke resorting to combat without susanoo is just laughable when he hhas no chance of physically reacting to Ay, thus giving the latter a silver platter to kill sasuke off

i dont concede until someone gives a valid argument, and you my friend you have not done that here
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The only arguement you have for Ei is out-lasting... Well if Ei wants to try and play the out-lasting game Sasuke simply takes flight via hawk and use Amaterasu and Enton varients to prep Kirin and end this or summons Aoda etc...

Also where did this if your fast genjutsu is useless to you argument come from Gai is very fast yet when up against Itachi he resorted to looking at his feet instead of trying to out-speed genjutsu. Killer bee was caught in genjutsu while in mid stride and Killer Bee speed isn't far from Ei's...​
 
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ARGUS

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Ei was standing directly still when he looked into Sasuke if he tried genjutsu why wouldn't it have worked? Please explain this to me? Genjutsu isn't instant?
and yes it was seeing as he lost consciousness before he hit the grund he he was roughly 8ft from it so yes Genjutsu does happen instant or very near instant. ... So that debunks he was in character arguement...
Doesnt matter if Ay was looking at sasuke or not, sasuke didnt cast it, its an indication that he either couldnt, or simply didnt think it was viable,
furthermore ur entire genjutsu argument makes no sense, when V1 Ay fought 5 Madaras, each of them with superior precog and susanoo to what sasuke used, yet he still didnt get caught, until he was actually distracted from tsunades injury
not to mention that how on earth is sasuke casting a genjutsu on an opponent his sharingan cant even keep up with, or even locate him?, its simple, he isnt

...
Umm look at the scan properly, Ay was distracted by tsunade,
and just because 5 Madaras managed to catch V1 Ay, doesnt imply in any way whatsoever that Sasuke could do so to V2 Ay
when his precog is inferior to Madaras, and when he cant even locate him,

I clearly said he got out of Sasuke Los via shunsui he didn't stop it's just that his striking speed is clearly slow also i guessed ?
No, , look at the middle panel for crying out loud,
or to get a better grasp of the fight
no way in hell is Ays striking speed slow,
and Ay didnt just get out of Sasukes LoS, when sasuke couldnt even properly see where exactly Ay was,
and ur example is completely irrelevant, nor does it prove anything at all,
No it's clearly that there showing the striking speed of an attack not someone stopping im pretty sure you knew that though just needed something to try and in-force you excuses... You act as if that's v2 Ei casual running speed when it clearly is not ...
Lol Nope, Ay stopped and its clear, unless you think that Karins thinking and Cees comparisons are faster than V2 Ays attack, in which case you need to get ur head checked,
and Lol Cees statement implied there is no prepped shunshin or even a mention for that when all Ay is doing is
there is no prepped shunshin at all. nor was there any requirement for preparation, just more chakra being pumped, so try again

Yes Ei can escape his Los via prepped shunsui anything less means no also his striking speed allows Sasuke to react to his attacks which you seem to not grasp these facts for some reason... Prepped shunsui is when someone sits still and focus there chakra for i quick burst of speed which Raikage clearly did... If it was a mere side step he wouldn't have set there to build up chakra...
There is no prep at all, just stop because this is just getting ridiculous,
all Ay is doing is pumping more chakra to access this speeed, and once the chakra is pumped up (V2) he can use it till he runs out of all of his chakra,
the side step just shows that Ay doesnt need his full speed to evade amaterasu, all he needs is to use his V2 shunshin, and that V2 shunshin was also enough to overcome sasukes precog, and blitz him

1- Ei only dodged Amaterasu because of prepped shunsui... Don't try to claim that not the only way he couldn dodge it because if it wasn't he wouldn't have used it anyways if he could casually dodge it there would have been no point to prep his shunsui... If Raikage constantly avoiding eye contact how will he know is Amaterasu is coming? He isn't just dodging it regularly if that's what you think.
Again and again, u are just repeating yourself over and over,
there is no prep shunshin at all, no where in the manga was it stated that, nor did Ay require any prep to use iit at all,
the only thing it involves is Ay pumping more chakra, which grants him an enhanced version of his RNY, enabling him to access more speed that was capable of blitzing sasuke,
Ay also doesnt neeed to look at sasuke all the time, when he still has the reflexes to react to the flames and the speed to evade it, and he doesnt need to worry about genjutsu either when sasuke is still unable to track his speed, meaning that sasuke isnt landing any genjutsu on him at all,


Eye bleeding is the symptoms which requires eye contact to know this and if he looks at him genjutsu ends the latter. He can react to Ei striking speed seeing as he clearly seen him before he striked... Wait when was it established that you needed to pump chakra in your body to activate Susanoo? Itachi Susanoo wasn't up when Kirin left the sky which means he pulled Susanoo out within the 1/1000 of a sec weather it was pumped(LMAO) into his body or not(LMAO).
Yeah like genjutsu was landed on him at canon? oh wait it didnt,
and again, sasuke didnt react to shit, when Ay even stopped before attempting to lose his arm, and as far as that is concerned, Ay certainly slam blitzes him down, before Sasuke could even react, so him attempting to form susanoo on the brink of time is also not cutting it, when he simply lacks the reflexes to react to Ay,

and @Bold - are you for real?, Susanoo requires chakra to be used, and a certain amount needs to be pumped in-order to manifest a certain variant,
and as for susanoo activation, its nigh instant, however sasukes reflexes arent
Itachi simply had the time to pump up the chakra, and activate susanoo, thus giving him enough time to react,
unless you think that itachis reflexes are fast enough to even react to lightning, in which case Lol


No you didn't... Susanoo activation may be slow? Didn't i already prove to you how fast Susanoo can be put on? Considering he put up a Enton wall and looked directly at Ei before he attacked i see no reason why Susanoo can't come up before he can attack...
You mean sasuke was looking the other way, because he had no way of locating or tracking his speed in any way whatsoever?
yeah i would say he was blitzed quite well,
and when he only looked back because he saw Ay stopping, before he attempted to breach the susanoo,

Susanoo cant come up due to the fact that sasuke cant react to Ay, its as simple as that, nor could he track Ay before he slams him down on the ground and pulverises him
it doesnt matter if susanoo activation is fast, because if sasuke doesnt have the reflexes to form the susanooo then its just moot


]http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif[/IMG]
The only arguement you have for Ei is out-lasting..
Which is all that he needs, nor is it anything tough for him, when sasuke would need to put his susanoo up to prevent himself from getting pulverised,
and when sasuke has no way of landing a single hit on Ay, i would say his chances are pretty slim
Well if Ei wants to try and play the out-lasting game Sasuke simply takes flight via hawk and use Amaterasu and Enton varients to prep Kirin and end this or summons Aoda etc...
Aoda is garbage here, its not landing a single hit on Ay, nor are any entons or amaterasu,
as for kirin, sasuke cant even track his speed or movements, how would hee properly landed it?

Also where did this if your fast genjutsu is useless to you argument come from Gai is very fast yet when up against Itachi he resorted to looking at his feet instead of trying to out-speed genjutsu. Killer bee was caught in genjutsu while in mid stride and Killer Bee speed isn't far from Ei's...
@Bold - Implying that Base Guy is as fast as V2 Ay, Lol
the argument is simple, because if an opponent is too fast for sasuke, then he cant track him, meaning that he just cant land eye contact or cast any genjutsu on him at alll
and Killer Bees speed is definitely far from V2 Ay thats for sure, when the latter is known to be the fastest man alive and when he blitzed Sasuke completely, whereas Bees speed was enough for sasuke to track and even evade his attack,
 

Misconception

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Doesnt matter if Ay was looking at sasuke or not, sasuke didnt cast it, its an indication that he either couldnt, or simply didnt think it was viable,
furthermore ur entire genjutsu argument makes no sense, when V1 Ay fought 5 Madaras, each of them with superior precog and susanoo to what sasuke used, yet he still didnt get caught, until he was actually distracted from tsunades injury
not to mention that how on earth is sasuke casting a genjutsu on an opponent his sharingan cant even keep up with, or even locate him?, its simple, he isnt

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So wait just because he didn't do it and he had a chance to means it is useless? Juubi Jin Madara had multiple chances to use a Hag/Juubi buffed Susanoo and he didn't because it would have been useless? Now you see how flawed your logic is... Madara never tried genjutsu on neither of the kage until he got Ei... He grabbed Ei with his susanoo because he was facing the opposite way not to slow him down sir... His sharingan can't keep up with? look , and pretty sure he kept up with him.​


Umm look at the scan properly, Ay was distracted by tsunade,
and just because 5 Madaras managed to catch V1 Ay, doesnt imply in any way whatsoever that Sasuke could do so to V2 Ay
when his precog is inferior to Madaras, and when he cant even locate him,


No, , look at the middle panel for crying out loud,
or to get a better grasp of the fight
no way in hell is Ays striking speed slow,
and Ay didnt just get out of Sasukes LoS, when sasuke couldnt even properly see where exactly Ay was,
and ur example is completely irrelevant, nor does it prove anything at all,
My point thats why Madara grabbed him to get his attention he didn't grab him to slow him down and use genjutsu on him as you claim. Ei didn't stop it appeared that way to show impact in the manga... actually it does...​

Lol Nope, Ay stopped and its clear, unless you think that Karins thinking and Cees comparisons are faster than V2 Ays attack, in which case you need to get ur head checked,
and Lol Cees statement implied there is no prepped shunshin or even a mention for that when all Ay is doing is
there is no prepped shunshin at all. nor was there any requirement for preparation, just more chakra being pumped, so try again
Let's see so with this scan being provided yes i do believe so. Not sure what your talking about when he clearly say he's keeping his chakra active for a shunsui read it carefully...​


There is no prep at all, just stop because this is just getting ridiculous,
all Ay is doing is pumping more chakra to access this speeed, and once the chakra is pumped up (V2) he can use it till he runs out of all of his chakra,
the side step just shows that Ay doesnt need his full speed to evade amaterasu, all he needs is to use his V2 shunshin, and that V2 shunshin was also enough to overcome sasukes precog, and blitz him
V2 was attained the moment his hair spiked up he didn't constantly need to pump chakra... A shunsui is much faster than running speed naruto knocking back Bijuudama's compared to him being yet when he did his shits on running speed...​


Again and again, u are just repeating yourself over and over,
there is no prep shunshin at all, no where in the manga was it stated that, nor did Ay require any prep to use iit at all,
the only thing it involves is Ay pumping more chakra, which grants him an enhanced version of his RNY, enabling him to access more speed that was capable of blitzing sasuke,
Ay also doesnt neeed to look at sasuke all the time, when he still has the reflexes to react to the flames and the speed to evade it, and he doesnt need to worry about genjutsu either when sasuke is still unable to track his speed, meaning that sasuke isnt landing any genjutsu on him at all,
How will Ei dodge Amaterasu when he doesn't know its? Coming prove to me that he can dodge Amaterasu without his shunsui?​


Yeah like genjutsu was landed on him at canon? oh wait it didnt,
and again, sasuke didnt react to shit, when Ay even stopped before attempting to lose his arm, and as far as that is concerned, Ay certainly slam blitzes him down, before Sasuke could even react, so him attempting to form susanoo on the brink of time is also not cutting it, when he simply lacks the reflexes to react to Ay,

and @Bold - are you for real?, Susanoo requires chakra to be used, and a certain amount needs to be pumped in-order to manifest a certain variant,
and as for susanoo activation, its nigh instant, however sasukes reflexes arent
Itachi simply had the time to pump up the chakra, and activate susanoo, thus giving him enough time to react,
unless you think that itachis reflexes are fast enough to even react to lightning, in which case Lol
I countered this argument above read carefully young one... Actually it is cutting it like a said above if he can put up Enton before being hit he can put up Susanoo... No scans suggesting Susanoo needs prep time to pump chakra into ones body? Didn't think so... Im saying Itachi can put his susanoo very fast when he knows when a attack is coming... Sasuke will know Ei is coming and he can easily put him his susanoo in time...​



You mean sasuke was looking the other way, because he had no way of locating or tracking his speed in any way whatsoever?
yeah i would say he was blitzed quite well,
and when he only looked back because he saw Ay stopping, before he attempted to breach the susanoo,

Susanoo cant come up due to the fact that sasuke cant react to Ay, its as simple as that, nor could he track Ay before he slams him down on the ground and pulverises him
it doesnt matter if susanoo activation is fast, because if sasuke doesnt have the reflexes to form the susanooo then its just moot
You again with you Ei stopped argument? Ehh i've countered it multiple times yet you still bring it up... Sasuke seen Ei before he attacked therefore in that short amount of time when eye-contact was landed Susanoo would have come up since we've already seen it's activation speed...​



Which is all that he needs, nor is it anything tough for him, when sasuke would need to put his susanoo up to prevent himself from getting pulverised,
and when sasuke has no way of landing a single hit on Ay, i would say his chances are pretty slim

Aoda is garbage here, its not landing a single hit on Ay, nor are any entons or amaterasu,
as for kirin, sasuke cant even track his speed or movements, how would hee properly landed it?


@Bold - Implying that Base Guy is as fast as V2 Ay, Lol
the argument is simple, because if an opponent is too fast for sasuke, then he cant track him, meaning that he just cant land eye contact or cast any genjutsu on him at alll
and Killer Bees speed is definitely far from V2 Ay thats for sure, when the latter is known to be the fastest man alive and when he blitzed Sasuke completely, whereas Bees speed was enough for sasuke to track and even evade his attack,
Kirin speed plus it's large Aoe shits on Ei... Ei isn't getting out of Sasuke Los at and birds eye view point so when Kirin comes down Ei gets wrecked... Ei isn't running anywhere... No it's not when Sasuke evaded Ei's attacks as well...​
 

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So wait just because he didn't do it and he had a chance to means it is useless? Juubi Jin Madara had multiple chances to use a Hag/Juubi buffed Susanoo and he didn't because it would have been useless? Now you see how flawed your logic is... Madara never tried genjutsu on neither of the kage until he got Ei... He grabbed Ei with his susanoo because he was facing the opposite way not to slow him down sir...
Or he only caught Ay in a genjutsu because he was the only one he could have caught,
since the gokage, including himself clearly knew how to fight the sharingan and not get caught,
and Ay was completely stationary and left himself wide open for 5 susanoos, and that was V1 Ay,
sasuke here does not have anyway to divert Ays attention nor does he have anyway to land a genjutsu on him at all, especially not V2 Ay, i suggest you move on ffrom this argument,
when the manga has made it pretty clear that even V1 Ay didnt get caught after facing more (KB) and stronger uchihas than sasuke

His sharingan can't keep up with? look , and pretty sure he kept up with him.
Fail on ur behalf since ur scans just make you look stupid, as its just V1 Ay,
who is not anywhere near his shunshin that he uses in V2,

My point thats why Madara grabbed him to get his attention he didn't grab him to slow him down and use genjutsu on him as you claim. Ei didn't stop it appeared that way to show impact in the manga... actually it does...
And, Sasuke on the other hand has no way of diverting Ays attention, nor does he have a way of tracking V2 Ay, let alone grab Ay to pin him down as well, which is why genjutsu is just not happening
i have provided you more than enough reasoning yet ur just ignoring the scans and showing something completely irrelevant,
Let's see so with this scan being provided yes i do believe so. Not sure what your talking about when he clearly say he's keeping his chakra active for a shunsui read it carefully...
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you have just contradicted urself yet again, its clear as day that guy is nigh stationary
with that scan are you seriously claiming that Rock lee is faster and more reflexive than Guy? when the latter is at much faster and stronger gates than Rock lee at that point of time,
ur logic is horrid here,
Ay just needs to pump chakra and because of that he can access V2, which grants him the speed to blitz Sasuke anytime he wants,
there is no preparation for the shunshin at all,
V2 was attained the moment his hair spiked up he didn't constantly need to pump chakra... A shunsui is much faster than running speed naruto knocking back Bijuudama's compared to him being yet when he did his shits on running speed...
yes, and Ay cann use his shunshin as many times as he wants especially when he has the chakra to do it,
obviously naruto wasnt even using his shunshin when Obito tagged him,
and Ay doesnt need to use anywhere near his top speed either, unless he wants to blitz sasuke head on,
How will Ei dodge Amaterasu when he doesn't know its? Coming prove to me that he can dodge Amaterasu without his shunsui?
Ay has thee reflexes to reaect to Amaterasu, and with his reactions he can react in time too evade it with his V2 speed just fine,
furthermore sasuke wont even be able to see V2 Ay use his V2 shunshin, meaning that amaterasu isnt even properly landed, as all itll do it just drain sasuke out even more,
I countered this argument above read carefully young one... Actually it is cutting it like a said above if he can put up Enton before being hit he can put up Susanoo... No scans suggesting Susanoo needs prep time to pump chakra into ones body? Didn't think so... Im saying Itachi can put his susanoo very fast when he knows when a attack is coming... Sasuke will know Ei is coming and he can easily put him his susanoo in time...
Susanoo activation itself is nigh instant, i have never denied that,
however the user needs the reflexes to be able to react in-order to manifest in time,
no reaction = no susanoo = dead sasuke
and sasuke isnt knowing when Ay is coming when he cant track him, or locate him,
without his susanoo its like handing his life over to Ay on a silver platter, when he cant physically or mentally react to Ay, meaning that the latter beheads him
You again with you Ei stopped argument? Ehh i've countered it multiple times yet you still bring it up... Sasuke seen Ei before he attacked therefore in that short amount of time when eye-contact was landed Susanoo would have come up since we've already seen it's activation speed...
Ay was stopped, i have showed you even the anime
actually he stopped, then even took a moment before he decided to bust susanoo and sacrifice his arm,
unless youre stating that Ays striking speed is slower than karin and cee saying an entire sentence? Lol
Sasuke only looked back when Ay stopped,
before he was looking at a completely different location meaning that hhe didnt track Ay at all, so try again
Kirin speed plus it's large Aoe shits on Ei... Ei isn't getting out of Sasuke Los at and birds eye view point so when Kirin comes down Ei gets wrecked... Ei isn't running anywhere... No it's not when Sasuke evaded Ei's attacks as well...
Yet Sasuke was just fine despite kirin obliterating the entire location?
and again, how is kirin landing when sasuke cant even track Ay, the latter having the intel on it, means that he just moves behind sasuke during to evade it
sasuke not being able to locate Ay just makes matters worse when he cant pinpoint the exact location to lannd the jutsu

 

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Sorry for the extremely late reply.

And?, Ay still breached it with a Lateral Chop, whether you like it or not,
Are we ignoring the fact that the ribcage was weakened by the liger bomb now ? seriously ?

because he cant track Ay or physically evade his attack, nor can he risk getting hit from Ay without any defense at all
because if he resorts to that way of combat then he dies a horrific death,
Then he goes on top of his hawk, Ay can't fly nor use shunshin in the air, there's no evidence he'll move at the same speed in the air, so if he gets close, Sasuke activates Susaano'o/Enton, simple.

actually he can more than enough shit, when he can laugh at all of sasukes attacks with his speed,
and laugh at his sharingan precog and attack the moment sasuke loses his enton shield,
he can also just outlast sasukes susanoo which isnt hard for Ay at all,
Assuming, of course, Sasuke will turtle inside Susano'o and spam MS techs until he dies, when he can just jump on his hawk and wait for Ay to attack.

the only one not doing shit here is sasuke, seeing how he wont be able to land a single hit on Ay,
That's the problem, you think Sasuke will keep spamming attacks until he runs out of stamina, while Ay won't attack and wait until that happens, if Sasuke flies on his hawk, Ay will have to get close, and as he can't shunshin in the air, he won't be as fast, giving Sasuke enough time to activate Susano'o and Enton to kill him.

I wonder why in MS Obito vs BM/BSM Naruto threads you don't say stuff like "Obito phases through every attack until the limit for BM runs out and then warps him away" instead of saying stuff like "and when Obito gets tangible to attack, Naruto's clones gangbang him", but here you're saying the exact opposite of that.

What good is the hawk doinng exactly?
Simple, Ay can't shunshin in the air, so he will have to jump, which is considerably slower, giving Sasuke enough time to react and activate Susano'o/Enton.

when sasuke still has no way of landing a single hit on Ay,
how is he even doing anything when he cant even locate AY, let alone physically attack him, smh
And this is here your logic fails, you assume Sasuke will keep spamming MS techniques while Ay doesn't do anything except dodging, this can be used both ways, Sasuke can do the exact same thing, by sitting on his hawk and wait till Ay attacks, which is when the latter dies.

and lol at Ay dying to enton, when it failed to burn even the samurai armor, and when AY was unfazed by flames throughout their battle,
Is that why Ay had to remove his arm ? Being unfazed =/= being able to survive, Whitebeard from OP had a huge hole on his body, yet he kept fighting and later died to swords. It's called "pain tolerance", which is not the same as tanking.

Read the scan, again,

defending urself with susanoo is not the problem here
Sasukes eyes couldnt track him nor could he locate him, meaning he was blitzed,
Look at the bottom panel, Sasuke is looking directly at him, blitzing = someone attacking before you even notice they left their spot, or that they even attacked you. Though I will admit that Sasuke can't track Ay's speed.

What good is the hawk doing exactly? you have yet to prove that to me,
Already replied.

he is still not landing a single hit on Ay,
Neither is Ay.

and the hawk summoning is just outlasted as stated by InvisiblePredator, it just brings him back to square one,
he is not achieving anything at alll, and has just used even more of his chakra therefore making the job just easier for Ay
For real now ? They aren't fighting here then ? They are just standing there all day ? If the hawk flies towards Ay, he won't attack it ? This doesn't make sense, neither is it an argument, fact remains that Ay dies if he gets close.

And you say "BFR" arguments from someone (not gonna mention names) are bad when in your argument you expect the fighters to just stand there until one of them die from chakra exhaustion without even fighting. Smh.

Edit : I probably won't be able to reply in these next few days.
 
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Sorry for the extremely late reply.

Are we ignoring the fact that the ribcage was weakened by the liger bomb now ? seriously ?
Never ignored it, however the damage from liger bomb was bare minimal, since the ribcage was still perfectly intact after tanking it, and was pretty much unfazed by the attack
its still hard to imagine ribcage tanking a lateral chop from Ay ,

Then he goes on top of his hawk, Ay can't fly nor use shunshin in the air, there's no evidence he'll move at the same speed in the air, so if he gets close, Sasuke activates Susaano'o/Enton, simple.
Alright, but thats what im asking you again,
whhat good is the hawk doing to sasuke?, when he is still not landing a single hit on Ay,
i dont get what you sasuke fans are not understanding here or is it just denial,
the summoning gets outlasted and sasuke gets back to phase 1, where he has to protect himself from susanoo and enton which drains him within a few minutes


Assuming, of course, Sasuke will turtle inside Susano'o and spam MS techs until he dies, when he can just jump on his hawk and wait for Ay to attack.
the summon is not doing him anything good at all, apart from just prolonging the battle which only makes matters worse for him
That's the problem, you think Sasuke will keep spamming attacks until he runs out of stamina, while Ay won't attack and wait until that happens, if Sasuke flies on his hawk, Ay will have to get close, and as he can't shunshin in the air, he won't be as fast, giving Sasuke enough time to activate Susano'o and Enton to kill him.
I never saiid sasuke is spamming his attacks, however he still needs an enton coated susanoo to protect himself, otherwise he gets blitzed and beheaded, and as far as im concerned, using susanoo is far more problematiic for sasuke then for Ay to use V2
and not to mention that nothing short of V2 susanoo is cutting it here, when ribcage is still crushed,
and coating a susanoo in enton is far too chakra taxing for him here

I wonder why in MS Obito vs BM/BSM Naruto threads you don't say stuff like "Obito phases through every attack until the limit for BM runs out and then warps him away" instead of saying stuff like "and when Obito gets tangible to attack, Naruto's clones gangbang him", but here you're saying the exact opposite of that.
this is completely irrelevant, i dont know why ur bringing it up here, and its its pretty much you crying
but ill explain why, firstly Its because, MS Obito even reacting to BSM/BM shunshin is a mere speculation, and seems well out of reach,
especially when he was which is well below the level of Narutos, so if he becomes tangible, he is certainly getting wrecked

secondly with clones on the agenda, naruto doesnt even need to fully utilise BM, he can even gang bang obito with SM clones if his BM runs out, and then he re enters BM and its backk to phase 1 for Obito so he is still not getting anywhere,
furthermore, naruto can just trick him into kamuing a clone, which will be end up raping him within seconds,
so no matter how you look at it, obito doesnt really stand much of a chance,

in this case, its still the same, sasuke still doesnt have a way of attacking Ay, and he certainly doesnt have a way of reacting to him, thus causing him to use enton coated susanoo to prevent Ay from attacking,
however that is just takiing his chakra away, where as Ay would still be fine,
and Ay can still attack sasuke, he can just attack him with one of his arms throughout the time he has coated himself in susanoo,
and eventually busts the susanoo, allowing Ay to kill him, and then get rid of his burnt arm,
so still no matter how you look at it, sasuke would lose

Simple, Ay can't shunshin in the air, so he will have to jump, which is considerably slower, giving Sasuke enough time to react and activate Susano'o/Enton.
Ok,

And this is here your logic fails, you assume Sasuke will keep spamming MS techniques while Ay doesn't do anything except dodging, this can be used both ways, Sasuke can do the exact same thing, by sitting on his hawk and wait till Ay attacks, which is when the latter dies.
The hawk is a summoning, so if he does bother with that tactic, then it gets outlasted and sasuke has to fight on the ground,
and like i said above, Ay can still attack him with only one of his arms,
and use perpetual lateral chops to eventually bust susanoo and kill sasuke off,

Is that why Ay had to remove his arm ? Being unfazed =/= being able to survive, Whitebeard from OP had a huge hole on his body, yet he kept fighting and later died to swords. It's called "pain tolerance", which is not the same as tanking.
I dont read OP, however Ay was certainly unfazed by the flames,
especially when he felt no signs of pain or fatigue when his arm was engulfed with the flames,
which was a matter of 6 pages in the manga


and i never said that Ay tanked the flames, i said he was unfazed, which he certainly was

Look at the bottom panel, Sasuke is looking directly at him, blitzing = someone attacking before you even notice they left their spot, or that they even attacked you. Though I will admit that Sasuke can't track Ay's speed.
Again, sasuke fans are not understanding, this is exactly what i tried telling misconeption, so ill explain it in steps,

1. when Ay used his shunshin in V2, Sasuke was unable to track him, as shown when was looking at a completley different location to Ays whereabouts, unless youre telling me that sasuke purposely chose to look at a different location, Lol

2. sasuke then resorted to coating enton in his susanoo so that Ay cant recklessly attack, mainly due to the fact that he couldnt track or keep up with him

3. once sasuke coated his susanoo in enton, Ay stopped for a brief moment, andd in that moment, sasuke stared back at him, no way in hell did sasuke track moving V2 Ays shunshin, he only managed to look at him when Ay stopped, unless you're telling me that ceee and karin completing their sentences is faster than Ays striking speed, which is just stupid,

4. andd then Ay finishes his statement and continues his attack, thus breaching his ribcage susanoo

so in no shape or form did, Sasuke track V2 Ays shunshin, thats just stupid,
and if you really want a better grasp of this whole situation then i suggest you to watch this in the anime,

Already replied.

Neither is Ay.
Umm, Ay is landing hits very easily on sasuke,
he can land hits as many times as he wants,
he just attacks sasuke with one of his arms and eventually busts his susanoo, and finishing sasuke off,

For real now ? They aren't fighting here then ? They are just standing there all day ? If the hawk flies towards Ay, he won't attack it ? This doesn't make sense, neither is it an argument, fact remains that Ay dies if he gets close.
Yes Ay would attack the hawk, i never said he wouldnt,
and Lol, the hawk is a summoning, meaning that it has a time frame which Ay can still outlast just fine,

And you say "BFR" arguments from someone (not gonna mention names) are bad when in your argument you expect the fighters to just stand there until one of them die from chakra exhaustion without even fighting. Smh.

Edit : I probably won't be able to reply in these next few days.
Where have i ever used BFR in this arugment?, because its clear that i havnt
nor did i say that Ay would just stand there, althoughh its still very plausible since he can just outlast sasuke with that sort of strategy, and its not very difficult for Ay either,
however he can also win this offensively, by constantly attacking Ay with one of his arms, and eventually breaching his susanoo, by attacking it from its weak spot and killing sasuke off,
if the latter has coated his susanoo with enton then Ay can simply remove his burnt arm once sasuke is dead,,
 
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as for kirin, sasuke cant even track his speed or movements, how would hee properly landed it?
[/FONT][/SIZE]
LORD LORD LORD LORD LORD

the overration of Ei's speed is to much Sasuke had enough time to whip on enton when raikage striked the back of his ribcage yet from 100 feet in the sky where he's is looking down upon Ei he wont be able to see him because he moves to fast? im done you don know Ei was only fast enough to escape his line of sight because he could run behind him while he was on the ground but when he's looking down on Ei he can see him very easily because he's looking from an upper view.

Kirin 1 shots as i said its Aoe is to large plus it move 1/1000 of a second Ei doesnt even process a thought GG. Lawd the wank of his speed is killing me you act like he's the flash or he move so fast sasuke can comprehend his speed or something
 
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Alright, but thats what im asking you again,
whhat good is the hawk doing to sasuke?, when he is still not landing a single hit on Ay,
i dont get what you sasuke fans are not understanding here or is it just denial,
the summoning gets outlasted and sasuke gets back to phase 1, where he has to protect himself from susanoo and enton which drains him within a few minutes



the summon is not doing him anything good at all, apart from just prolonging the battle which only makes matters worse for him

I never saiid sasuke is spamming his attacks, however he still needs an enton coated susanoo to protect himself, otherwise he gets blitzed and beheaded, and as far as im concerned, using susanoo is far more problematiic for sasuke then for Ay to use V2
and not to mention that nothing short of V2 susanoo is cutting it here, when ribcage is still crushed,
and coating a susanoo in enton is far too chakra taxing for him here
you are not understanding him, read his points well to fully grasp what hes saying.

you keep saying sasuke cant keep up sooosano for long and that he needs to stay all the time, well rusled jimmies is saying that sasuke doesnt need to do that esp when he can get on his hawk in which ay wont be able to bliz him and then while on his hawk if he does attack him which he would sasuke can activate soosano or enton in time to kill him as ays attacks obv be as fast mid air as he would be on ground level normally. he doesnt have to be clad in soosano all the time, only when ay attacks him while on his hawk, thats his point.
 

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you are not understanding him, read his points well to fully grasp what hes saying.

you keep saying sasuke cant keep up sooosano for long and that he needs to stay all the time, well rusled jimmies is saying that sasuke doesnt need to do that esp when he can get on his hawk in which ay wont be able to bliz him and then while on his hawk if he does attack him which he would sasuke can activate soosano or enton in time to kill him as ays attacks obv be as fast mid air as he would be on ground level normally. he doesnt have to be clad in soosano all the time, only when ay attacks him while on his hawk, thats his point.
He doesn't want to understand anyone...
 
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