Blind Madara vs Hashirama

[KingHashirama]

Isn't SM Madara's speed massively superior to base Madara's?

nope. same speed. o-o.

 

[NSUNSR]

Oh crap I read non SM Hashirama. Nvm.

Same.Lol
He wrote it in a strange way.
OT: Hashirama wins then.

 

[Apêx1]

nope. same speed. o-o.

He blitzed SM Naruto, something base Madara wouldn't be capable of. SM increases speed as shown with both Naruto and Jiraiya. It is also implicative based on the strength your legs and body would be getting, that your speed would increase significantly.

 

[KingHashirama]

He blitzed SM Naruto, something base Madara wouldn't be capable of. SM increases speed as shown with both Naruto and Jiraiya. It is also implicative based on the strength your legs and body would be getting, that your speed would increase significantly.

Base Madara could easily do that.. and he blitzed them before he had SM... lol.


Him trying to be Hashirama is his weakness.

 

[shelke]

Isn't SM Madara's speed massively superior to base Madara's?

It didn't seem that way. Given that Madara and him were engaged in CQC and he still stabbed him about 6 times with the rod.

 

[Apêx1]

It didn't seem that way. Given that Madara and him were engaged in CQC and he still stabbed him about 6 times with the rod.

To me, if Madara could touch Hashirama with his rod [

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], then his ability to do so would exponentially when his arms are so much stronger. Same goes for Sunshin, if his core and legs are drastically stronger, then running with the effect of a Senjutsu enhanced Shunshin would make his speed massively superior to that of his base form.

 

[shelke]

To me, if Madara could touch Hashirama with his rod [

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], then his ability to do so would exponentially when his arms are so much stronger. Same goes for Sunshin, if his core and legs are drastically stronger, then running with the effect of a Senjutsu enhanced Shunshin would make his speed massively superior to that of his base form.

I get your point, but when he blitzed Naruto, he wasn't in SM then. He had yet to absorb it.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Doesn't he have the buddah too?

Can't he just absorb the buddah if he wanted to?

He absorbed the shinjuu tree pretty easily

Buddha statue is too big of a feat to give to Madara. Unless it's shown, Madara can't use buddha. Yamato can also use mokuton but he has limitation

Dont wanna talk about absorption, maybe Madara could but Im not sure we should allow him to that based on 1 feat only

 

[VongolaX]

Buddha statue is too big of a feat to give to Madara. Unless it's shown, Madara can't use buddha. Yamato can also use mokuton but he has limitation

I don't see Madara personally doing it myself either because the move requires intense life energy to use it too.

Spiral zetsu was able to use it because he was feeding on Yamato's life to survive.

I was just making sure if he did have it or not, I didn't want to be that only guy who thought Madara couldn't use it.

Dont wanna talk about absorption, maybe Madara could but Im not sure we should allow him to that based on 1 feat only

He absorbed the sagemode, Amatersu, the alliance, and the god tree.

I'm of yet to see limitations to this, but it's fair because all he's been using is absorption since Edo tensei.

We're of yet to discover the true purpose of his black rods too, and that uchiha+senju power thing.

What do you think?

 

[KingHashirama]

I don't see Madara personally doing it myself either because the move requires intense life energy to use it too.

Spiral zetsu was able to use it because he was feeding on Yamato's life to survive.

I was just making sure if he did have it or not, I didn't want to be that only guy who thought Madara couldn't use it.




He absorbed the sagemode, Amatersu, the alliance, and the god tree.

I'm of yet to see limitations to this, but it's fair because all he's been using is absorption since Edo tensei.

We're of yet to discover the true purpose of his black rods too, and that uchiha+senju power thing.

What do you think?

Yamato was connected to Hashirama's dna for lord knows how long..

 

[VongolaX]

Yamato was connected to Hashirama's dna for lord knows how long..

Sucking out his life energy

Databook says that spiral zetsu can't survive without gedo's light or life energy that it absorbs from its host.

So Yamato must of been wrenched pretty badly

 

[KingHashirama]

Sucking out his life energy

Databook says that spiral zetsu can't survive without gedo's light or life energy that it absorbs from its host.

So Yamato must of been wrenched pretty badly

most likely. X_X.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I don't see Madara personally doing it myself either because the move requires intense life energy to use it too.

Spiral zetsu was able to use it because he was feeding on Yamato's life to survive.

I was just making sure if he did have it or not, I didn't want to be that only guy who thought Madara couldn't use it.




He absorbed the sagemode, Amatersu, the alliance, and the god tree.

I'm of yet to see limitations to this, but it's fair because all he's been using is absorption since Edo tensei.

We're of yet to discover the true purpose of his black rods too, and that uchiha+senju power thing.

What do you think?

Absorbing buddha does seem a bit of a stretch to me. Hashirama still has more experience with sage mode so that helps. But Madara did lots of things previously which was not done before (like susanoo without eyes).

Do you know why the black rods didn't work on Sakura? I tried to find many answers but none of them were satisfactory

 

[Apêx1]

I get your point, but when he blitzed Naruto, he wasn't in SM then. He had yet to absorb it.

Oh, I went retard mode there.

 

[shelke]

Oh, I went retard mode there.

Lol nah. I myself was confused that Hashirama was in SM or not. I had to go back and double check.

 

[Draphsin]

1 - And you seem to fail to realize when I said that Madara can move and make clones as well.

I didn't fail to realize anything. it's irrelevant is all.

What's he countering then? His clones take on Hashirama's ... and ... we are back to square one with the whole 'standing still' and kneading Senjutsu chakra.

No, mokuton constructs keep them back, already addressed this in my previous post.

2 - Not easy in regards to being in a situation where he has has no back up and is up against an opponent who is fast and can stop him from kneading Senjutsu chakra. Won't repeat myself in regards to Bushin points.

Yes easy considering you have no proof to say that madara has enough speed to do what you're suggesting, hashi's clones push madara & his clones back with mokuton, again not hard.

3 - Not exactly. The point you were trying to make is Hashirama's ultra fast movements where he doesn't have to worry about Madara as if he's a fly buzzing around who can't hurt him or close up the gap between them quickly.

No, that wasn't my point at all. Hashi and madara are the same speed, so every jutsu that hashi uses will take just as much time for madara to use, if they both run at full speed then the gap between them won't ever get smaller. If hashi creates clones & madara tries to blitz, then hashi moves back while still creating clones. If madara uses clones after hashi, then that gives hashi even more time to move back or create a construct. Since neither one is faster than the other that means no jutsu is getting interrupted unless you think hashi is a moron & would stand still himself.

Which is why I brought Naruto in and how he managed it all quickly. Despite being one of the two fastest characters in the manga who holds absolute mastery over KGs or Bushins in general bar none. In a hairy situation when the other opponent is just as fast ... it isn't that easy.

It is easy, naruto did in front of a faster opponent [sasuke] without a problem. Madara isn't blitzing hashi, so he has no problem doing it either.

4 - No idea what you are talking about. I never said Madara is much faster than Hashirama, I made an analogy between Naruto and Hashirama. God, man ... keep track of analogies.

No, you need to learn what an analogy is, because the comparison you're trying to make is ridiculous. Not only is it invalidated by the scan I posted with sasuke, & not only were diversions said to only be kaguya's weakness, but on top of it all, kaguya can blitz naruto while madara can't blitz hashi.

Your analogy doesn't work.

Also, Madara does have faster reflexes given that he stabbed him with rods 6 or 7 times. Or are we disregarding this too?

You have no idea how hashi was stabbed with those rods so you have no right to say that it was because of madara's reflexes. Hashi had madara pinned with his mokuryuu, how do you know that they didn't trade blows? Resulting in madara getting pinned & hashi getting stabbed. Associating hashi getting stabbed by those rods with madara's reflexes is speculation.

You are asking for scans? All right, show me a scan where Hashirama was entering in SM and Madara tried to stop him. It goes both ways.

No it doesn't, & you just proved my point. Since there is no scan of madara even attempting to stop hashi from gathering senjutsu then that makes your blitzing scenario even less likely. If such a scenario was ever possible then the manga sure didn't show it to us.

5 - So he does all that in a second while Madara does nothing? He makes clones, uses mayfly, hides somewhere snug and kneads Senjutsu, all the while Madara is completely oblivious?

No dude...Don't be daft now...Madara will obviously pursue, but he can't do anything to stop hashi from using these jutsus, sure he can use his own jutsus but that doesn't prevent hashi from using his. Without any way to blitz hashi or stop him from using his feet he isn't interrupting the jutsus I mentioned.

How about you list the various ways that madara deals with what I said rather than questioning if what I'm saying is possible? Because all I hear is "oh hashi can't do this, madara will stop him". I haven't seen anything from you that says how exactly he does this except for making his own clones, but they get pushed back by large-scale mokuton.

I cannot see the image in spoiler. Don't turn this into Sasuke versus Naruto. I can prove that Sasuke is faster. But this isn't the thread or place for it.

Okay, here it is:

Spoiler

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No, I'm not turning this into a sasuke VS naruto thread any more than you're turning it into a naruto VS kaguya thread. I'm, like you, using an analogy, or rather showing you how your analogy is invalid.

I'll say it again, naruto formed clones in front of sasuke's face, why didn't the "obviously faster" sasuke blitz when he had the opportunity? Why didn't naruto form a diversion like he did with kaguya? This very scan shows you how kaguya shouldn't be compared or used as an analogy between madara & hashi, especially when madara has no s/t jutsus to blitz with.

Stick to the analogy and your example didn't disprove the fact that he couldn't do all that without distracting her, as she's ... wait for it ... fast.

I did, you jumped the gun just because you didn't see the scan in question which clearly contradicts your analogy. & No, kaguya has s/t jutsus, she can appear behind you instantly & I already provided the scan showing this, that's why a diversion was necessary. Was it ever stated that sasuke is weak to diversions? No. Did naruto distract sasuke like he did with kaguya before making clones? No.

6 - Do you honestly think Madara will do nothing when he does all that? What is Madara doing while he does all that? Mining his nose? Waiting for him to finish so that he can go down the scenario you have thought out?

As I said above madara is obviously going to attempt to stop hashi, but he can't prevent him from doing anything I said.

I'm not going to sit here & make your argument for you, you believe that madara can stop hashi from doing what I said? Okay then make a case for him. Argue for madara, list the jutsus he'll use to stop my strategies, that's your job, not mine. Unless you make a case for him then madara will just be sitting there digging for gold. Lol

7 - He stabbed him several times. So his reflexes and strike speed is definitely better.

Speculation, you can't prove that madara used his reflexes alone to stab hashi, they could've traded blows, you don't know. [Neither do I but regardless you still can't assume anything based on off-panel events].

He would blitz if he stands still to knead Senjutsu.

Already explained various reasons why this isn't happening. Madara isn't Ay, he isn't blitzing anything, & hashi has various ways of gathering senjutsu.

I don't know why this point, which I have repeatedly highlighted, didn't seem to cross your mind.

It has, but it's irrelevant.

 

[shelke]

^ Do you want me to repeat everything I said before already? If you have something new, bring it to the table. I am tired of posting the same thing over and over and reading the same post over and over.

- I will only correct you on Sasuke logic. The guy was gloating. Once he teleported, none of the avatars were able to react. He smashed one down into the mountains because of his superior striking speed. This has a lot to do with SM. Naruto couldn't gather SM and do what you said either. The one Sasuke magically forgot about gorged on NE and then he could initiate it.

Now image had Sasuke blitzed that Kurama sitting between the smashed mountains. There goes that SM. I am not sure what kind of point you were even trying to make, because I know how Bushins work.

 

[VongolaX]

Absorbing buddha does seem a bit of a stretch to me. Hashirama still has more experience with sage mode so that helps. But Madara did lots of things previously which was not done before (like susanoo without eyes).

I understand where your coming from but just remember what happen to shinjuu tree.

Do you know why the black rods didn't work on Sakura? I tried to find many answers but none of them were satisfactory

I still don't know why

I expected people to answer that in the Gudodama thread I made a while back but so far nothing.

That TSB was formed into a rikudou rod and even black zetsu became a rikudou rod too.

We need black zetsu page to be translated

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

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[VongolaX]

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Lol this is alive Hashirama though

Do you think the rods will still be useful?