Hiashi VS Choji

[Apêx1]

Hiashi low-mid diffs this burger abuser.

 

[TheEvilOne]

By feats Choji shits as Hiashi lacks any notable CqC skills that can help to survive. The air palm is nice and cool, but even base Choji tanks it with no problem.

 

[Apêx1]

By feats Choji shits as Hiashi lacks any notable CqC skills that can help to survive. The air palm is nice and cool, but even base Choji tanks it with no problem.

So Hiashi, as the leader and renowned superior Hyuga cannot outdo the other Hyuga's? Makes sense. Neji+Hinata air palm combined<Hiashi's. You know how air palm occurs? Gentle fist>create shockwave via speed from hand>Gentle fist is travelling and hits said target. What does this mean? The size of the Air palm is based on the speed of the hand creating the shockwave, thus Hiashi's hand speed is hundreds of times quicker than someone who utilises 8 trigrams 64 palms at instantaneous speeds in part 1.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Hyuuga have shit striking speed. Can they even ignite the air?

 

[TheEvilOne]

So Hiashi, as the leader and renowned superior Hyuga cannot outdo the other Hyuga's?

Speculation at best.

According to your logic, Tsunade shits on both because she is a Hokage.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Speculation at best.

According to your logic, Tsunade shits on both because she is a Hokage.

Nice retort.

 

[Apêx1]

Hyuuga have shit striking speed. Can they even ignite the air?

Little do you know when Guy goes to the 7th Gate, he surpassed the ignition boundary and simply creates shockwaves. Deal with NV logic m8.

Speculation at best.

According to your logic, Tsunade shits on both because she is a Hokage.

What the fūck.

Your logic falis because the Hyuga are considered the strongest in the leaf [

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][

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]. Guess who's in the leaf village? The Hokage; Tsunade.
In a logical implicative argument, one takes into account that the DB implies Hiashi being the one to pass down techniques since he's the leader of the main house. That means he passed down Twin Lion Fist to Hinata (4th DB says it is passed down by the leader), etc. meaning he knows all Hyuga jutsu (or attainable). On the other hand, we have Hiashi whose air palm was vastly superior to that of Hinata and Neji's vacuum air palm combined. So asserting that Neji is superior holds 0 ground when everything Hiashi has done, he's done better. That includes, but not limited to: Rotation, Air palm, range with his Byakugan, seals, jutsu knowledge and experience. The implications of this and him being the leader of the clan undeniably suggests his shunshin being superior to Neji's, given Shunshin is mainly the ability to run, control and explosively release chakra. Inb4 can't control chakra when he can use one of the highest forms of chakra control; twin lion fist. Inb4 no leg speed when it is implicative that his rotation is far larger than Neji's given its AOE in part 1 [

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], which is determined by chakra expulsion and foot speed. Inb4 can't explosively release chakra when Full Body Gentle Fist is focused on an explosive release of chakra from the body. Your Tsunade inclusion in threads never seems to lose its ability to make you look more retarded.

 

[shelke]

Hiashi wins. His Kaiten was able to push back the needles with Neji. I cannot see how it won't counter any physical attacks from Chouji regardless of the fact whether he's in BM or not. Air palm does the job from a distance for closing his chakra points. Chouji is not exactly a speedster. Body blow helps him escape IF Chouji manages to grab him.

Hiashi wins mid difference most.

 

[neosmith500]

By feats Choji shits as Hiashi lacks any notable CqC skills that can help to survive. The air palm is nice and cool, but even base Choji tanks it with no problem.

You dont even understand how vacuum palm works.
Choji is not getting pushed my air, he's gettin attacked by a bijuu size amount of jyuken chakra which is gonna easily pass through his body an attack his chakra/organs. If a slight tap from jyuken is enough to solo, then hiashi GODSTOMPS choji with one violent blast of this same jyuuken chakra which specializes in invasion an destruction of choji's chakra network an organs.

Hanabi solo's base choji Lol

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Yeah but this case is slightly different. Kabuto controls them so if they don't use a technique, it doesn't mean they can't use it like how we didn't see Black lightning and some other techniques that were confirmed used by the Kages. Kabuto may have not known of Hizashi's ability to do such and since he was controlling him, he may not have resorted to it. Also like Draegod said, if the chakra point of one is shut, he actually can't use it.

It's arguable considering the fact that could have actually done it in that scenario but for some reason didn't when Neji showed it can easily be done and even Kakashi explained it.

So you're telling me that Kabuto knew of literally every single jutsu his edos used? Not very likey. There is such thing as auto pilot, you know that right? And if you're going to agree with Draegod, you're going to have to prove to me that you can shut down an Edos chakra system. Because I'd love to know how Juken works on essentially an animated dead body with no functioning innards.

Ever gave Chouji's strength/durability a thought...? Because everything you and Draegod are suggesting isn't adding up in the slightest. Air Palm didn't do anything to Kisame but push him back. The mechanics behind the jutsu is as how you guys explain it, however that doesn't change the fact that durability may very well play apart against it's damage potential; seeing as isn't exactly like gentle fist where their chakra is being directly forced into the target via direct contact.

 

[Bronze]

Choji sits on him.

 

[Draegod]

Re: Hiashi VS Chojio

Nah bro, you're getting it all twisted. The sacrifices body is what's feeling the pain, not the real Kisame and Itachi. That's what I'm saying. As long as the jutsu is active, the sacrifice is still alive according to the DB. So in order to end the jutsu, either A) The chakra supply needs to run out, or B) Kill the sacrifice by inflicting fatal injuries. All Hyuuga techniques attack the inside of the body, and air palm didn't do anything to the living sacrifice. (Perhaps because Kisames durability? )

Regardless, you contradicted yourself. Your excuse for Kisame not receiving any damage from Air Palm was:



Edos are dead bodies that feel zero pain. But now Juken miraculously works in this case? @ bold, but the same doesn't apply to Kisames clone, right?

So you're telling me that Kabuto knew of literally every single jutsu his edos used? Not very likey. There is such thing as auto pilot, you know that right? And if you're going to agree with Draegod, you're going to have to prove to me that you can shut down an Edos chakra system. Because I'd love to know how Juken works on essentially an animated dead body with no functioning innards.

Ever gave Chouji's strength/durability a thought...? Because everything you and Draegod are suggesting isn't adding up in the slightest. Air Palm didn't do anything to Kisame but push him back. The mechanics behind the jutsu is as how you guys explain it, however that doesn't change the fact that durability may very well play apart against it's damage potential; seeing as isn't exactly like gentle fist where their chakra is being directly forced into the target via direct contact.

You make no sense and perhaps do not or did not get what I stated! I'll break it down for you; if the user of of pains Jutsu could be affected and scream pain they would have correct? So, when kisame was hit by the attacks he was not phased in the slightest correct? So, it is a fact the air palm when it hit the body didn't affect kisame since it wasn't his body is what I'm and the manga showed! When the chakra ran out or body was unusable is when the Jutsu becomes undone, correct? Vacuum palm did not make the body in useable not did he affect it from not being useable. What don't you get?

Then you saying edos don't have a chakra network is beyond retarded! Lol how do they use chakra with out a net work? What foes "not having insides" have to do with a chakra network???? Plus the fact they do have insides like kisame with hearts and earth grudge, plus have with his poison sac, or the mizu kage with oil etc etc. do what do you mean with them not having insides? And what does insides have to do with an edo having chakra points? Chakra pints are on the outside is it not?

Why are y'all replying to the evilone? He is trolling to get rises out of you all. Lol

 

[neosmith500]

seeing as isn't exactly like gentle fist where their chakra is being directly forced into the target via direct contact.

A tiny amount of jyuken chakra channeled through a string was able to damage multiple organs an attack the chakra network of a healthy CM2 user, Just a small amount from a dying neji, which traveled 50m to get to kido without needin direct contact via palm strike.

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Kido remarked that his organs were damaged but he could still move, possibly because of CM influence, meanin that tiny amount could've solo'd him.

Vacuum Wall Palm sends a more violent wave of this same jyuken chakra with more force than neji channelin his tiny chakra through a string towards choji. Jyuken chakra itself specifically invades and destroys chakra which also damages organs which no matter how expanded, are still soft an tender to jyuken.

What is so hard for u to understand?

 

[Apêx1]

Re: Hiashi VS Chojio

You make no sense and perhaps do not or did not get what I stated! I'll break it down for you; if the user of of pains Jutsu could be affected and scream pain they would have correct? So, when kisame was hit by the attacks he was not phased in the slightest correct? So, it is a fact the air palm when it hit the body didn't affect kisame since it wasn't his body is what I'm and the manga showed! When the chakra ran out or body was unusable is when the Jutsu becomes undone, correct? Vacuum palm did not make the body in useable not did he affect it from not being useable. What don't you get?

Then you saying edos don't have a chakra network is beyond retarded! Lol how do they use chakra with out a net work? What foes "not having insides" have to do with a chakra network???? Plus the fact they do have insides like kisame with hearts and earth grudge, plus have with his poison sac, or the mizu kage with oil etc etc. do what do you mean with them not having insides? And what does insides have to do with an edo having chakra points? Chakra pints are on the outside is it not?

Why are y'all replying to the evilone? He is trolling to get rises out of you all. Lol

He's not even trolling, he's actually always like this. He gets mad because people underrate Tsunade and say she can't do 'implicative' things but then claim Hiashi can do definite implicative things.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

You make no sense and perhaps do not or did not get what I stated! I'll break it down for you; if the user of of pains Jutsu could be affected and scream pain they would have correct? So, when kisame was hit by the attacks he was not phased in the slightest correct? So, it is a fact the air palm when it hit the body didn't affect kisame since it wasn't his body is what I'm and the manga showed! When the chakra ran out or body was unusable is when the Jutsu becomes undone, correct? Vacuum palm did not make the body in useable not did he affect it from not being useable. What don't you get?

Then you saying edos don't have a chakra network is beyond retarded! Lol how do they use chakra with out a net work? What foes "not having insides" have to do with a chakra network???? Plus the fact they do have insides like kisame with hearts and earth grudge, plus have with his poison sac, or the mizu kage with oil etc etc. do what do you mean with them not having insides? And what does insides have to do with an edo having chakra points? Chakra pints are on the outside is it not?

Why are y'all replying to the evilone? He is trolling to get rises out of you all. Lol

Incorrect. If the Kisame/Itachis clone were unphased by attacks, then Morning Peacock and Rasengan wouldn't of killed them and they would of been fully operable until the chakra ran out. The point is, Air Palm and all attacks do in fact effect the clones body. The real Itachi and Kisame aren't feeling any pain, but the living sacrifice is! The Databook literally says that the sacrifice is living his life as a powerful shinobi; so that means he's fully concious and experiencing everything that happens. So he felt Air Palm, but it failed to do any significant damage, perhaps because Kisames durability, is what I'm saying. And If i'm misinterpreting what you're saying, you need to be a lot more clearer, because you're being extremely vague in terms of what you're referring to. The living sacrifice, the Kisame/Itachi clone, and the real Itachi/Kisame. You need to differentiate them better.

Well shit, then were both retarded then because that's essentially what you initially told me before you had to flip flop your points. Since you seriously asked that question in the bold... [

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]. They intertwine with their chakra source - the chakra producing organs. Edos have unlimited chakra, so what is the use of that. The fact that an

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like so [

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] strengthens the notion of a chakra network not being present within an edos body. And actually, you're sadly mistaken. Edo Kakuzu had to

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, which further proves that Edos don't have functioning innards, something I thought would be common sense. Hanzou's poison sack and Trollkages oil don't fall under that category of functional internal organs, by the way.

A tiny amount of jyuken chakra channeled through a string was able to damage multiple organs an attack the chakra network of a healthy CM2 user, Just a small amount from a dying neji, which traveled 50m to get to kido without needin direct contact via palm strike.

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Kido remarked that his organs were damaged but he could still move, possibly because of CM influence, meanin that tiny amount could've solo'd him.

Vacuum Wall Palm sends a more violent wave of this same jyuken chakra with more force than neji channelin his tiny chakra through a string towards choji. Jyuken chakra itself specifically invades and destroys chakra which also damages organs which no matter how expanded, are still soft an tender to jyuken.

What is so hard for u to understand?

Not the same thing at all. But explain to me why Kisames clone ate it like it was nothing.

 

[Icelerate]

Who said he would close all his Chakra points? What would be the point? How would it be possible? And you still don't know how the Hyugas work my guy. They can use chakra to invade anything chakra dependent or related. Choji becoming bigger means an even easier bigger chakra point to target and inject chakra to either:
A. Overload that single chakra point to the point it is being blasted out like a water hose and cannot be controlled
B. Close that single point or disrupt the chakra flow in his body making him shrink back to normal because of the ninjtsu requiring constant chakra control or maintenance.
3. Use chakra to attack the bigger easier to affect Chakra organs for instant death! Or fatal fatal Injury!

Basically he is out matched and outclass in this aspect since his chakra and chakra points are now even easier to access and affect with minimum difficulty!

My point was that Hiashi can't do meaningful damage against a giant Chouji. I know how the Hyuuga fight, they use chakra to attack the enemy's chakra network and internal organs. You say Chouji being bigger makes him an easier target to get attacked by gentle fist but so was the Juubi so what is your point?

A. Overloading just one chakra point doesn't mean much as it took Neji to disable

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to prevent Naruto from using chakra. Also there is no proof that a chakra point 100+ times larger can be blocked and even if it can, it will take much longer and multiple hits on the same chakra point to even accomplish such.

B. Same applies to B.

C. Gentle fist does damage to organs in a similar fashion to how poison does. You'd need to inject hundreds of times more chakra into Chouji to kill his organs just like ant poison which can kill ants but can hardly faze a human.

The "spin around" strategy is useless and a waste of Chojis time (he wouldn't even try it). When Hyugas can use anything that uses chakra as a medium to attack your body and affect your organs. Plus What would human boulder accomplish? And No, Choji did not tank the Mazo shock wave! HE

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and was sent flying no diff from a shock wave alone. And It is a fact Kisame and Itachi felt no pain when the Pain jutsu was invoked like i showed above.

Due to

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, Hiashi wouldn't be able to accurately target Chouji with gentle fist and even if he can, he gets run over. If he uses this in butterfly mode, Chouji will become

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to simply dodge as Hiashi hasn't shown any movement speed feats that allow such a valid claim to be made.

If Hiashi tries to slap Chouji around with his vacuum palm while he spins towards Hiashi in a bid to send him flying, Hiashi's attempt will fail. When Zaku used a much weaker air pressure attack against a much smaller and weaker Chouji, Zaku's air cannon ended up giving Chouji lift because Chouji's spinning force propelled Chouji in the air (

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)(

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).

You took my words too literally but don't downplay Chouji's durability feat in that scenario. The Gedo Mazo's shockwave did damage all over Chouji's body so the total force he felt was much greater than what Hiashi can output. Vacuum palm will do a lot less damage because the total energy output of Hiashi is much less than the Gedo Mazo and will only effect a smaller area so the damage will be easier to ignore because Chouji won't feel pain all over his body.

Choji's best Punch with aid from his dad didnt

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! Yet the Juubi Stage two (a wayyyyyyyy higher and stronger version of the Gedo) hand (which is roughly Bijuu size) stood no chance against Hiashis attack even though the mass of the juubi hand was 10000 fold, plus the speed and velocity from it moving made it that much more in Hiashi favor!
The Gedo mazo

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, yet tanked Choji's best attack. Hiahsi's attack is easily game ending to standard humans, and will knock choji back most definitely! If his Heart is hit he is done for!

The Juubi isn't as strong nor massive as just one of its arm. Hiashi pushed back and repelled an attack from just one of the Juubi's arms and not the entire Juubi. You say that the Juubi's hand is 10000 fold more massive but compared to what exactly. Unlike the Juubi's arm, Chouji is a shinobi who can put chakra in his feat to stop getting blown back. The vacuum palm won't hit Chouji's heart because Hiashi's vacuum palm doesn't have the range to reach Chouji's heart.

As for the Gedo Mazo, well it was a combined effort from Gai, Kakashi, Bee and Naruto that was overwhelming the Mazou (

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)(

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). These four are much faster and stronger than the division Chouji was fighting in. Not to mention like you said Bee and Naruto hit the Mazo from the neck and it didn't have a

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especially when

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. From the shockwave Chouji's punch created, fodders were feeling the shockwave despite being far from the impact of Chouji's punch whereas no shockwave was shown when Bee hit the Mazou.

Then lastly the notion that Choji has anything to Bypass Rotation is beyond ridiculous! Juubi's hand>Chojis raw power! Even with Narutos cloak choji didn't have enough strength to keep the juubi's arm from moving (that shows the arm has a tremendous amount of strength and power). SO Rotation>Choji. And no, you cannot grab something that is a constant force spinning at a tremendous speed! He will

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if he even so much as barely touch it let alone grab. lol All the hyugas need is a foothold to use Rotation no matter how messed up the surroundings are, so unless hiashi is in the air he will be able to spin no matter what. The ground only provides a surface to move there feet on.

I'm not saying Chouji will penetrate rotation. What the Juubi did was swing its arm once which got repelled. If Chouji does the same, his arm gets repelled even more easily. However, my point is that Chouji is going to use both his arm and hand strength to grab Hiashi while he is rotating forcing him to come to a complete stop

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. Chouji applies a much stronger friction force than Kidomaru's webs will do considering there is nothing stopping Chouji from squeezing Hiashi like one can squeeze an egg as hard as possible.

Chouji can

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where he is most vulnerable as he can't dodge nor rotate.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

My point was that Hiashi can't do meaningful damage against a giant Chouji. I know how the Hyuuga fight, they use chakra to attack the enemy's chakra network and internal organs. You say Chouji being bigger makes him an easier target to get attacked by gentle fist but so was the Juubi so what is your point?

A. Overloading just one chakra point doesn't mean much as it took Neji to disable

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to prevent Naruto from using chakra. Also there is no proof that a chakra point 100+ times larger can be blocked and even if it can, it will take much longer and multiple hits on the same chakra point to even accomplish such.

B. Same applies to B.

C. Gentle fist does damage to organs in a similar fashion to how poison does. You'd need to inject hundreds of times more chakra into Chouji to kill his organs just like ant poison which can kill ants but can hardly faze a human.

Don't have the time for a detailed discussion, but I thought I'd mention that the bold is false. Neji was simply trying to use overwhelming force. The simple fact is, he doesn't need to shut down anywhere near 64 points to prevent chakra control.

Spoiler

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The only time we saw direct chakra point shutdown was 1 strike for each arm. The only other opportunity he'd have was the brief exchange with Hinata in the top page. Also, judging by Hinata's arm, Neji hit no more than several points to have an effect.

Put simply, shutting down 1-several points in an arm shuts off flow in that arm. Basically, Choji will begin shrinking.

 

[Icelerate]

Don't have the time for a detailed discussion, but I thought I'd mention that the bold is false. Neji was simply trying to use overwhelming force. The simple fact is, he doesn't need to shut down anywhere near 64 points to prevent chakra control.

Spoiler

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The only time we saw direct chakra point shutdown was 1 strike for each arm. The only other opportunity he'd have was the brief exchange with Hinata in the top page. Also, judging by Hinata's arm, Neji hit no more than several points to have an effect.

Put simply, shutting down 1-several points in an arm shuts off flow in that arm. Basically, Choji will begin shrinking.

Like the scan you posted shows, it will take a lot of hits to stop Chouji's transformation in just one limb. Too bad Hiashi can't even access the vast majority of Chouji's chakra points as he is way too tall. The only ones he can access are the ones on Chouji's foot but if Hiashi tries this, what is stopping Chouji from stepping on him or stepping away?

 

[FemmeFatale]

Lololololol! I can't believe you'd go so far as to take 2 completely different techniques, and pretend they're the same concepts!

Chakra scapel is basically the same thing

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Chakra scapel is basically the same thing

No it's not. Chakra scalpel=blade of chakra. Gentle fist=insertion of chakra into a chakra system.