Shameful retcon

[Punk Hazard]

Lol, I am not going to restate my arguments. It's not about Naruto changing the destiny. It's about being part of it. That's what Neji was accused by Naruto for believing Neji is part of his destiny. Naruto didn't believe in destiny. And voila, in part 2 he fulfils each and every prophecy. Even his ideals about hard work are now irrelevant, coz he was transmigrant of Ashura

We clearly have different point of view, our discussion is futile. My arguments have nothing to do with yours

Naruto never had a problem with being part of destiny though. That's what you fail to understand, and it's almost pitiful. Once again, where did Naruto say he doesn't believe in destiny? Naruto has always said "change your destiny if you don't like it", never "Destiny is a load of crap." I love how you STILL can't bring up a scan of Naruto saying he hates destiny as a whole.

Naruto got the gifts that came with being Ashura's transmigrant BECAUSE he worked hard, not in spite of it. I wish Ira could infract you for the lack of reading comprehension skills.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Because that's what I have been seeing you doing it over and over and you have a whole blog of sporking to back me up. And you have been practicing it for months (a year at least?).

A lot of people liked my last two blogs and I am not just talking about on this site. But why are you this about me?

No matter what anyone says you stick to your version and refuse to see any other person's point even and frame your questions in such a way ( often a yes and no response which doesn't explain the situation at all ) which you know do not fit the situation but would serve your purpose.

Not really. I admitted that his guy had some guy fine points.

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Obito changed the path he chose twice- once when his ambition to serve Konoha turned to destroying it and second time when he decided to protect the world from the very fate. So it was stated when that part was drawn and Obito was shown changing his mind twice. And yet you are asking me when it was stated in the manga- despite Obito/Tobi being a prominent character throughout the manga. So why shouldn't I take it as a bait and call you upon on it?

I thought you meant like actual destiny like with Naruto.

 

[Joker]

What's shameful is your lack of understanding. Naruto's issue wasn't destiny, but Neji's former notion that you can't change your destiny if isn't favorable. Tell me, what part of Naruto's destiny was unfavorable?

His destiny as a reincarnate of Ashura, was to be in eternal turmoil with Indra's, a never ending cycle. That's unfavorable.

 

[Zawerni]

Yes he was. He was born without talent and weak. Do you need to reread the manga? I think you do.

Naruto is special in terms of who he is. But when did any of that help him in battle before the war? Did Ashura allow Naruto beat Neji? Did Ashura help Naruto master his techniques? When Naruto was failing to do a basic clone jutsu, where was Ashura then?

Again, Naruto was the Child of Prophecy long before he was even born. The guy was born special. He didn't take anything serious and opted to pull pranks for attention. He learned the Rasengan in a week and further perfected it, something his father was unable to do.

Kurama allowed Naruto to beat Neji.
Naruto was able to master his techniques thanks to his larger chakra pool, and also Kurama.
Naruto failed to pass the Academy exam, which was to create 1 basic clone. He did, however, manage to produce hundreds of Shadow Clones, also thanks to Kurama.

I'm not saying he didn't work hard, and I'm also not saying Ashura did everything for him (which I imagine is what you are thinking, considering your reply). But Naruto was still special from the beginning.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

His destiny as a reincarnate of Ashura, was to be in eternal turmoil with Indra's, a never ending cycle. That's unfavorable.

Actually it was his destiny to stop that.

Yeah, I'm gonna consider being born without talent, unable to have basic chakra control and unable to perform D-rank techs pretty weak.

But you can't can't in terms of stamina.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Again, Naruto was the Child of Prophecy long before he was even born. The guy was born special. He didn't take anything serious and opted to pull pranks for attention. He learned the Rasengan in a week and further perfected it, something his father was unable to do.

Kurama allowed Naruto to beat Neji.
Naruto was able to master his techniques thanks to his larger chakra pool, and also Kurama.
Naruto failed to pass the Academy exam, which was to create 1 basic clone. He did, however, manage to produce hundreds of Shadow Clones, also thanks to Kurama.

I'm not saying he didn't work hard, and I'm also not saying Ashura did everything for him (which I imagine is what you are thinking, considering your reply). But Naruto was still special from the beginning.

And he was able to fulfill this prophecy because he worked hard. Was he born special? Sure. But he still had to put this "special" to work. If Naruto slacked off, what was "special" about him would have been wasted; it would have served no purpose and done nothing for him. You're implying that Naruto could have slacked off, and being the Child of Prophecy and the transmigrant would have resulted him being powerful anyways. What you need to understand about prophecies is that they are not solid visions of the future. At the end of the day, a prophecy can be denied by the person the prophecy is about. Prophecies can be false, undone, or never come to fruition. The prophecy about Naruto came true because he worked hard. So, the value of hard work that part 1 established is still there in part 2.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Naruto never had a problem with being part of destiny though. That's what you fail to understand, and it's almost pitiful. Once again, where did Naruto say he doesn't believe in destiny? Naruto has always said "change your destiny if you don't like it", never "Destiny is a load of crap." I love how you STILL can't bring up a scan of Naruto saying he hates destiny as a whole.

Naruto got the gifts that came with being Ashura's transmigrant BECAUSE he worked hard, not in spite of it. I wish Ira could infract you for the lack of reading comprehension skills.

This is getting tiresome. But this should suffice

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You want contradiction?

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If you deny it even now, clearly we have different style of interpretation

 

[Punk Hazard]

His destiny as a reincarnate of Ashura, was to be in eternal turmoil with Indra's, a never ending cycle. That's unfavorable.

And what did Naruto do? Work to become friends with him instead and end the cycle. What do you know, he changed the unfavorable part of his destiny. WOw. much retcon. Very contradict

Actually it was his destiny to stop that.



But you can't can't in terms of stamina.

You're joking right?

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is getting tiresome. But this should suffice

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If you deny it even now, clearly we have different style of interpretation

And Neji was still wrong.
1. "Talent is decide at birth"
Naruto had no talent at birth, but found talent later through hard work.

2.It wasn't decided that Naruto would stop the cycle, befriend the Bijuu, save the world, etc. It was prophesied. A prophecy is a prediction. I predict tomorrow there will be an earthquake in Texas that will split the state from the USA. I prophecy it right now. Is it decided that that will happen tomorrow?

3. ONCE AGAIN, Naruto has nothing against destiny as long as you want it. The contradiction/retcon would only exist if:
-Naruto didn't want to be Ashura's transmigrant or the child of prophecy
-Naruto slacked off and being Ashura's transmigrant or being the child of prophecy made him strong anyways

Neither of those happened. So, no retcon. No contradiction. Anyways, I'm done chatting with you children, it was fun. Good night, please stay in school, maybe take AP Lit.

 

[Shanks]

This is getting tiresome. But this should suffice

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You want contradiction?

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If you deny it even now, clearly we have different style of interpretation

but never said he did not want to be part of Destiny . You are missing something here .

Actually Naruto accepted Neji's words here but he is asking not to automatically decide things because fates can change.

He only said he never cares about such things as destiny and fates . Why do you think Naruto calls Neji genius ?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

And Neji was still wrong. It wasn't decided that Naruto would stop the cycle, befriend the Bijuu, save the world, etc. It was prophesied. A prophecy is a prediction. I predict tomorrow there will be an earthquake in Texas that will split the state from the USA. I prophecy it right now. Is it decided that that will happen tomorrow?

I proved my point that Naruto didn't believe in destiny. But he himself became a part of it in Part 2. That's my argument. I don't see how I'm wrong

 

[Joseph Gomes]

but never said he did not want to be part of Destiny . You are missing something here .

Actually Naruto accepted Neji's words here but he is asking not to automatically decide things because fates can change.

He only said he never cares about such things as destiny and fates .

It's all about interpretation. Naruto's not gonna repeat every single word from my argument. I do believe Naruto didn't believe in destiny. But if you don't want to believe it, that's fine

Im saying Naruto didn't believe in destiny, but he became part of it later in the manga. Which is really absurd considering Naruto's POV on life

 

[Punk Hazard]

I proved my point that Naruto didn't believe in destiny. But he himself became a part of it in Part 2. That's my argument. I don't see how I'm wrong

What part of that shows Naruto doesn't believe in destiny? He's telling Neji not to act like the words he says are guaranteed truth. "Why the hell do you automatically decide things like that?" Not "Why the hell are things decided like that", but why Neji specifically feels like he can decide whether or not someone will be a loser or winner for the rest of their life.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

You're joking right?

Naruto being special in terms of stamina/chakra reserves has been noted in the series many times has it not?

 

[Shanks]

It's all about interpretation. Naruto's not gonna repeat every single word from my argument. I do believe Naruto didn't believe in destiny. But if you don't want to believe it, that's fine

Im saying Naruto didn't believe in destiny, but he became part of it later in the manga. Which is really absurd considering Naruto's POV on life

Well it's Shonen Manga in the end . Kishi was never a Philiosophy writer though .

 

[Avani 👑]

Rebirth= Continuity of cause and effect. Like lighting a candle with another candle. They're not the same, but the first is the cause of the second.

Transmigration= Soul and mind leaving one body and entering another one which is not necessarily a human being. It can also be an animal. It has also a lot to do with Karma.

Reincarnation= Same thing as transmigration minus the animal and Karma thing.

I'm not sure if this is right but I think it is to some extend. Some of you probably know better. If so, please explain me what the differences really are.

That will be a topic on it's own. But loosely speaking when we say rebirth - it means same entity/soul being born again in a new body. As we change clothes and discard the old ones not usable again in the same way soul discards the body which due to old age and ailments die. Soul keeps evolving all through in every birth and all kind of births ( all living beings be it plant, animal or human). It keeps ongoing till it had paid for all the bad Karma and is able to find Moksha and merge back with God/Supreme soul.

Transmigration- The basic theory is that soul leaves the physical body upon death and enters another body according to past behavior and spiritual needs. When the animate life dies, the soul-mind can come back into human form or animal, it depends on the needs of the soul.

This is different from Rebirth as rebirth doesn't happen according to need but Karma. Soul takes rebirth to start over the journey in body but brings karma register from the last birth and has to pay for the bad one while improving the good karma.

The Buddhist concept of reincarnation differs from others in that there is no eternal "soul", "spirit" or "self" but only a "stream of consciousness" that links life with life. The actual process of change from one life to the next is called punarbhava (Sanskrit) or , literally "becoming again", or more briefly bhava, "becoming".

A lot of people liked my last two blogs and I am not just talking about on this site. But why are you this about me?

The reason is stated in the part you left out- the last two lines of my post you quoted:

..........................
Sporking a work can be fun now and then and can make people laugh or be aware of lose ends but when it becomes obsession and you keep doing it in normal threads all the time it's just baiting people into pointless arguments.

Sporking and dissing out is such a thing that you will always get many to who would enjoy it. It's human nature. But constant negativity for such a long period is not my cup of tea.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Naruto being special in terms of stamina/chakra reserves has been noted in the series many times has it not?

Yes, I know that. I'm asking if you think that's really all it'll take to become a strong ninja?

 

[Kagustuchi]

What are you talking about? To fulfill that prophecy he had to kill Sasuke, like Ashura and Hashirama before him. Sasuke confirmed this. Yet Naruto broke that destiny and "Ended the Sibling Rivalry"​

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[Zawerni]

And he was able to fulfill this prophecy because he worked hard. Was he born special? Sure. But he still had to put this "special" to work. If Naruto slacked off, what was "special" about him would have been wasted; it would have served no purpose and done nothing for him. You're implying that Naruto could have slacked off, and being the Child of Prophecy and the transmigrant would have resulted him being powerful anyways. What you need to understand about prophecies is that they are not solid visions of the future. At the end of the day, a prophecy can be denied by the person the prophecy is about. Prophecies can be false, undone, or never come to fruition. The prophecy about Naruto came true because he worked hard. So, the value of hard work that part 1 established is still there in part 2.

Naruto was able to do it because he was born with the potential to. If he chose to slack off then yea, he wouldn't have fulfilled the prophecy. But there isn't anyone who could have taken Naruto's place there. Hashirama was Ashura's transmigrant as well, but he wouldn't have been able to fulfill the prophecy.

Neji was born a genius, and as a result he was able to master techniques of the Main family by himself.

Lee was born without any talent for ninjutsu or genjutsu, and as a result he was unable to improve those skills no matter how hard he worked.

Indra was born a natural genius, and as a result he achieved immense power on his own.

I could go on.

How is Neji wrong here? These examples lean more towards Neji's words, that people are born the way they are and that's how it is.
Naruto's words were that a person can completely change who they are if they work hard enough. In Part 1 it was one thing, because we didn't know Naruto was some special Chosen One type person. But in Part 2 it is dropped when Naruto is revealed as such. It shows that he was simply born with the potential to do it, not that he is actually changing what he is.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

What part of that shows Naruto doesn't believe in destiny? He's telling Neji not to act like the words he says are guaranteed truth. "Why the hell do you automatically decide things like that?" Not "Why the hell are things decided like that", but why Neji specifically feels like he can decide whether or not someone will be a loser or winner for the rest of their life.

Naruto doesn't give 2 cents about people who talk about destiny

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Becomes part of destiny himself

The retcon is in the theme. Destiny doesn't matter in part 1. It matters a lot in part 2

Good night. Im done for today