So Finally hashirama> Hiruzen!

[Darkdro]

Naruto> Hashirama> Tobirama > Hiruzen > Minato > Tusanade > Kakashi

Debate ended.

 

[super yang]

By feats?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here are the feats of these two. Let's see if they compare:

Minato:
Single handedly destroyed whole platoons during the third war

that's no a feat

. Earned the title of yellow flash.

that's not a feat

Destroyed Kanabi bridge along with Kakashi and Rin which apparently played a crucial part in the war.

that's not a feat

Owned the Ay- Bee combo (or at least just Ay who was still the raikage after all)

Tsunade could actually kill them, not minato

Defeated Obito

tsunade could too

saved the village from being destroyed by Kurama and sealed Kurama inside of Naruto.

heroic suicide is not a feat

Saved the shinobi alliance twice from juubi bijuudamas.

Tsunade coulda done that

Removed Madara's gudoudamas in the fight between Guy and Madara (which would have hit and killed Guy by the way if Minato had not done that).

cool beans.

[TE]
Minato:
Failed to kill Bee during the 3rd war
Died to Kurama
Got owned by Rikudou Madara.
That is it (do not even bring up letting Obito almost die and letting Rin die because Minato had no control over that. Kakashi was a jounin, so he was in charge and he was responsible for his team. Don't bring up Kushina dying because he couldn't just let Obito blow up Naruto. By the time he got back, Kurama was already extracted from Kushina. Minato did not know at the time that resealing the beast inside of a jinchuuriki would save them. Remember, the plan to seal yin Kurama inside of Naruto was a plan that was communicated to Minato by the Kuramas after yang Kurama got extracted. This means that it was new information to Minato. Therefore, Kushina's death was not Minato's fail. Do not bring up Black Zetsu stealing yin Kurama because anybody can just be intercepted like that. Plus Black Zetsu is considerably crafty. Even Rikudou Madara got caught by Black Zetsu's deceptiveness and element of surprise.)
[

I'm not debating that he has greater plot relevance, as he clearly does.

[E]Summation: Minato >>> Tsunade

I disagree I think They are about even

 

[V h o]

Rikuzen will always be stronger U_U

lol at Tsunade being equal to Minato. We saw what happened to the village under her control and what happened when Minato was under control.

 

[Vega]

It said there was no ninja existing that surpassed his power, however that is obviously BS considering the databook goes up to 691 and there are easily many people who surpass his power (Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Juubito, Hagoromo, 8th Gate Guy, DMS Kakashi). But yeah Hashirama whilst greater than Old/Edo Hiuzen, Prime Hiruzen solos.

 

[chaos control]

that's no a feat
that's not a feat
that's not a feat

Tsunade could actually kill them, not minato

tsunade could too
heroic suicide is not a feat

Tsunade coulda done that

cool beans.


I'm not debating that he has greater plot relevance, as he clearly does.



I disagree I think They are about even

How are those not feats? Can Tsunade warp a juubi bijuudama (or even a normal one to be honest)? No! Can Tsunade warp a whole shinobi alliance out of an explosion's radius? No! She can not beat Obito!!!!!!! Obito >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tsunade. She may be able to beat Ay, but she can not dodge his top speed and she can't beat Bee. As for the suicide thing against Kurama, that wasn't the only way in which he saved Konoha from Kurama. Kurama also launched a bijuu bomb which would have destroyed Konoha. Minato warped it away. He was later about to launch another one. Minato stopped him by summoning Gamabunta and then warping the whole of Kurama away (bijuudama and all). Tsunade didn't do jack against Obito and she lost horribly to Madara in a freaking 5 on 1 battle! She lost to part 1 Kabuto for crying out loud!

You sir, are not using logic if you think that Tsunade comes anywhere close to Minato. Minato>>>>>>>>>>> Tsunade.

 

[Brünhild]

It's not a surprise, since Hashirama was the only one who could face Madara alone.

 

[Ken Masters]

DMS Kakashi = Prime Hiruzen >> Hashirama = Naruto > Minato > Tobirama >>>> Tsunade

 

[grizzlyshree]

DMS Kakashi = Prime Hiruzen >> Hashirama = Naruto > Minato > Tobirama >>>> Tsunade

we wont get to see prime Hiruzen so Hiruzen and Minato are equal for me.

that's no a feat
that's not a feat
that's not a feat

Tsunade could actually kill them, not minato

tsunade could too
heroic suicide is not a feat

Tsunade coulda done that

cool beans.


I'm not debating that he has greater plot relevance, as he clearly does.



I disagree I think They are about even

i odnt think tsunade would kill Ay since he has a tank body like his father and speed which would make him like kenpachi.

Tsunade would kill obito? how?

just because vegeta(Ay or Obito) gets hurt by krillin(tsunade) doesnt ake krillin powerful than vegeta.

how would tsuande save the alliance against juubidma?

 

[startup97]

I say Hiruzen obviously.

Heres my reasons.

Spoiler

Fourth Databook proof!!!
Hidden is mistranslation of Hiden.

Spoiler

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Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. All five nature alterations, Hidden, Genjutsu, all ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. Hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member


He knows all techniques in Konoha. Three databooks cant be wrong

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Viz Scan Orochimaru - "Knew and could perform all existing Konoha Jutsu"
Hiruzen knows all Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals =

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Hidden Leaf Tech

Neutalizer technique, , Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion and all 8 Gates at will.
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave (Anime only)
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Silent Killing
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough


Hiruzen (sarutobi clan)
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique


Hiruzen w/ Enma
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades




VIZ PROOF.

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

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