[Discussion] Doflamingo vs Mihawk?

[Forbidden Tale]

It's true that Shichibukai = Marine HQ = Yonko, saying and can mean both combined but in same cases don't need. Luffy fought Lucci and Blueno. That don't need to mean that he fought both of them together.

Shichibukai don't work with Marines, they work with WG.

Grand Times omake say:

四皇を止める力として、世界政府は海軍と王下七武海を従える。
The World Government has Marine and Shichibukai as forces to stop the Yonkou.

海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関のひとつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海とは相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai. (They don't work together.)

王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界政府から略奪を許されている。海賊への抑止力という意味もあり、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.

四皇 - "偉大なる航路"後半の海にて、皇帝のごとき力を誇る海賊。頭は4人だが、その戦力は他の世界的勢力と並ぶ 。
Yonkou - Pirates that shows emperor-like power in the later half of the "Grandline." Even though there are only four of them, their power equals to the other world forces.

 

[Anduril]

The difference here is that during the fight with Luffy and Lucci, he was fighting almost equally to Lucci. They were clashing a lot and Luffy only won because Lucci underestimated him at the end. Lucci could of won that fight. Doflamingo is literally outclassing him almost all the time and Luffy needed Law's help to hit Doflamingo with a Red Hawk which barely did anything to him. It's going to be a team effort to take him down. I don't see Luffy soloing Doffy seeing how Law's there.

Actually gear 2 Luffy was far beyond Lucci at Enies lobby. We can say that if luffy was able to maintain gear 2 he would have stomped lucci.
Also you miss the fact that Lucci went to enies lobby in an a/c compartment. While Luffy tore down a building, blew a hole in aqua laguna and then destroyed the entire marine presence on enies lobby, beat the shit out of blueno and then fought lucci.

There were still instances where they were clashing a lot. I'm not denying that Luffy will take him down, I'm saying it'll be a team effort with Law but obviously Luffy would inflict more damage. Either way, it's not a solo fight. Luffy isn't strong enough to solo Doflamingo, he already got help from Law so it won't be a solo fight.

Oh no luffy will solo doffy.

 

[NarutoBmx33]

Nope. The Shichibukai are insurance, yes, because the WG and Yonko are even. When two even sides go against each other, there's no telling who would win. The Shichibukai are there to tip the scales in the WG's favor.

Garp said the three powers balance each other, this means one thing and one thing only, they're equal to each other. He didn't say the Shichi and WG balance with the Yonko, he said the Shichi balance with the WG which balances with the Yonko, end of.

You're contrading yourself buddy. If they're equal to each other, then how are they an insurance to the WG?

To me, it seems that that the Yonkos together arre stronger than WG, which is why the WG needs the shikibukais to tip the scales in their favor, like you said. Which is why I think all 3 are not equal, its a 2 sided type of thing mostly. A=B+C if that makes sense.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

You're contrading yourself buddy. If they're equal to each other, then how are they an insurance to the WG?

To me, it seems that that the Yonkos together arre stronger than WG, which is why the WG needs the shikibukais to tip the scales in their favor, like you said. Which is why I think all 3 are not equal, its a 2 sided type of thing mostly. A=B+C if that makes sense.

Marines+Shichibukai=4 yonko crews+their allies.

WG(Shichibukai included)=4 Yonko crews+all other pirates+Revolutionary Army.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Am I invisible here???

Here I go again:

四皇を止める力として、世界政府は�� �軍と王下七武海を従える。
The World Government has Marine and Shichibukai as forces to stop the Yonkou.

(In other words, WG has to forcec to stop Yonko, on is Marine HQ and second is Shichibukai.)

海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関の�� �とつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海と� ��相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai.

(Even though they have same enemy, they don't work with Shichibuaki, so here you can see that Shichibuakai and Marine HQ don't usually work together.)

王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界�� �府から略奪を許されている。海賊へ� ��抑止力という意味もあり、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.


Shichibukai are probably young organization (World or that main enemy from last special, don't remember any Shichibukai during his time, he was pirate during Roger's era) and they were formed after Great age of piracy.

This is crack from know, but they were probably created in order to balance things, and turn pirates to WG side, because they could do hugu mess if they would be just pirates and not shichibukai.

There is not also point in calling them 3 Great Forcec, if Yonko = Shichibukai + Marine HQ.

Marine HQ (good guys) - 33 % = Shichibukai (semi good/bad guys) - 33 % = Yonko (bad guys) - 33%

 

[NarutoBmx33]

@Forbidden Tale
I'm a little confused about the 33/33/33 ratio. I get they balance and make a whole but if you were to remove the WG, the Shikibukai(33) would not equal Yonko(33), correct? In terms of power, I mean.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

@Forbidden Tale
I'm a little confused about the 33/33/33 ratio. I get they balance and make a whole but if you were to remove the WG, the Shikibukai(33) would not equal Yonko(33), correct? In terms of power, I mean.

Hm, I should probably say just 1/3 or 33,33 %....

Three Great forces - 100%
Shichibukai - 33,33% that's 1/3 out of 100%
Yonko - 33,33% that's 1/3
Marine HQ - 33,33% that's 1/3

That's parameter to show equallity between three forces if Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai than it would be Yonko 50% and Marine HQ and Shichibukai together 50%

 

[Punk Hazard]

@Forbidden Tale
I'm a little confused about the 33/33/33 ratio. I get they balance and make a whole but if you were to remove the WG, the Shikibukai(33) would not equal Yonko(33), correct? In terms of power, I mean.

Incorrect. Shichibukai=Marine force=Yonko, so Shichibukai=Yonko.

 

[Hexuze]

Actually gear 2 Luffy was far beyond Lucci at Enies lobby. We can say that if luffy was able to maintain gear 2 he would have stomped lucci.

He wasn't far beyond Lucci. Lucci was struggling a bit but Luffy wasn't outclassing him in second gear.

Also you miss the fact that Lucci went to enies lobby in an a/c compartment. While Luffy tore down a building, blew a hole in aqua laguna and then destroyed the entire marine presence on enies lobby, beat the shit out of blueno and then fought lucci.

He never had serious injuries.

Oh no luffy will solo doffy.

I doubt it. Luffy will defeat Doffy but he won't do it all by himself. Law would obviously help (just like how he helped Luffy land that red hawk on Doffy), thus making it not a solo fight.

 

[NarutoBmx33]

Hm, I should probably say just 1/3 or 33,33 %....

Three Great forces - 100%
Shichibukai - 33,33% that's 1/3 out of 100%
Yonko - 33,33% that's 1/3
Marine HQ - 33,33% that's 1/3

That's parameter to show equallity between three forces if Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai than it would be Yonko 50% and Marine HQ and Shichibukai together 50%

Lol I didn't ask for the mathematical evaluation

I meant that if you remove the shikibukais, the WG would be in a bad shape against the Yonkos.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Lol I didn't ask for the mathematical evaluation

I meant that if you remove the shikibukais, the WG would be in a bad shape against the Yonkos.

They would still had one force (HQ) to stop the Yonko. But problem in that case would be that Shichibukai would go rogue and even some individuals from Shichibukai could get position of Yonko (if they are strong enough).

 

[NarutoBmx33]

They would still had one force (HQ) to stop the Yonko. But problem in that case would be that Shichibukai would go rogue and even some individuals from Shichibukai could get position of Yonko (if they are strong enough).

Still, I don't thinkg the Marine HQ would be enough to stop the Yonkos all together.

 

[Bogard]

@Forbidden Tale i'd even add that unlike marine HQ, Shichibukais themselves never work together

- Crocodile refused Doflamingo's help in the war
- Moriah refused Kuma's help

And so on. Likely due to the fact they were pirates, they have great ego and dislike help coming from others. I'm pretty certain it makes them weaker in group and that if they actually had teamwork, they could have been stronger

 

[A v i]

Incorrect. Shichibukai=Marine force=Yonko, so Shichibukai=Yonko.

Hm, I should probably say just 1/3 or 33,33 %....

Three Great forces - 100%
Shichibukai - 33,33% that's 1/3 out of 100%
Yonko - 33,33% that's 1/3
Marine HQ - 33,33% that's 1/3

That's parameter to show equallity between three forces if Yonko = Marine HQ + Shichibukai than it would be Yonko 50% and Marine HQ and Shichibukai together 50%

Lmao, Do u guys really think 7 War lords = Whole WG?

Among those 7 only one that can do jack against an admiral is Mihawk and other 2 admirals are more than enough to beat all other warlords and you guys think they can match FA+admirals+VA's+Fodder army? no sure if serious.hmm

 

[Forbidden Tale]

It's not that we believe that, it's what Oda believe...

And it's not WG, it's HQ.

 

[A v i]

It's not that we believe that, it's what Oda believe...

The portrayal clearly suggests otherwise. Oda changed his mind.hmm

Warlords being equal to marines is a joke at this point.

And it's not WG, it's HQ.

Doesn't make any difference.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

As long as he don't throw something like that in manga, I will stick to this.

 

[NarutoBmx33]

@RoronoaZoro- That's what I mean, the distribution of the 33/33/33 wouldnt make sense because taking out one part would not equal the other. Warlords<Marines and Walords<Yonkos.

And Yonkos>Marines or Warlords

 

[A v i]

As long as he don't throw something like that in manga, I will stick to this.

He already did it via portrayal.
Don't be ridiculous, I know that you are aware of the fact that there is noway in living hell for 7WL's to beat 3 admirals and FA let alone being on par with all of marines. You are aware of this Yet you are posting these arguments just for the sake of arguing.hmm

Or Are u going to tell me that 7WL = Shanks.Kaido,BM and BB? and their respective VC's and crew members?

Lmao, Just imagine 7WL's VS 4 Yonko, they'll get fodderized in an instant.

It is same as saying Luffy and Zoro are equal because of the battle b/w those two which happened ages ago.

 

[Corgi]

He already did it via portrayal.
Don't be ridiculous, I know that you are aware of the fact that there is noway in living hell for 7WL's to beat 3 admirals and FA let alone being on par with all of marines. You are aware of this Yet you are posting these arguments just for the sake of arguing.hmm

Or Are u going to tell me that 7WL = Shanks.Kaido,BM and BB? and their respective VC's and crew members?

Lmao, Just imagine 7WL's VS 4 Yonko, they'll get fodderized in an instant.

It is same as saying Luffy and Zoro are equal because of the battle b/w those two which happened ages ago.

Manga disagrees. Both the Warlords and Yonko are chosen by the World Government in order to maintain the balance between the three. The four Yonko, without their crew, by themselves, are equal to the 7 Warlords, who are equal to the Marine force. Which isnt even that hard to believe, rookies Luffy, Law and Kidd who were below the Shichibukai minus Crocodile were trashing Marine platoons with little difficulty, it's not really THAT difficult to fathom that the Warlords and Yonko could do the same. The Marine force rises up into the thousands...thousands of fodder. The only notables are the Admirals, Fleet Admirals and some of the VAs really.