In otherwords, you don't have any counters for my arguments and therefore are planning on making an excuse to back out of the debate.
I obliterated your arguments, you're simply ignoring the facts I present & when someone does that it's like talking to a brick wall, so I'm not going to bother if that's the case.
...except Obito has kamui, which means that he can just sit and stay intangible while he lets his opponent attack him in order to gain intel on whatever they are trying to do.
But again as your ignorance clouds your judgement, you end up missing the part where obito states that konan knew that he has so solidify in order to warp yet he still does it.
He knew that konan had some sort of plan for when obito solidified & he wanted to know what it was, so he did what he wanted her to do which was to become solid, thus putting himself in danger.
He already knew what was going on, if he wanted to he could've phased underwater to completely avoid the papers altogether, but again he didn't. He wasn't "gaining intel", he was deliberately willing to put himself at risk in order to satisfy his curiosity.
Now enough trying to deny the blatantly obvious fact, obito wasn't serious.
The bijuu vs village example is just absurdly atrocious and irrelevant.
Lol I applaud your explanation as to why that is.
Obito was explicitly shown to be surprised that tourine got his arm, hence why he claims that tourine contaminated his right arm with the bugs.
See? this is what I'm talking about when I say I'm going to stop taking you seriously, you just ignore facts. Just because he claimed that torune infected him doesn't mean that he was surprised by it, that's awful logic.
There's a difference between being
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, & simply
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.
Note the giant exclamation marks that you ignored for some reason, & the lack of any in the 2nd scan as well as the torune scan.
Plus, obito had gloves on, tourine took his shirt off indicating that his ability does not work through clothing and therefore obito would not have lost his arm by simply grabbing tourine for warp.
So I don't see your point, then how do you expect torune infected obito? The simple & only explanation for this would be that torune's clothes don't allow him to infect others but that doesn't mean all clothes share this immunity. Obito's sleeve & glove was
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even after he got infected, & obito wears a full body suit. So anything other than saying the infection can go through obito's clothes is simply wrong.
Finally, nothing implies obito was toying around, if he grabs tourine knowing what tourine's ability will do to his arm, that doesn't indicate obito is toying around it indicates that obito doesn't have another way to beat tourine or obito is lacking in the intelligence department.
Warping is the quickest way for obito to finish off an enemy. The fact that obito still warped torune despite knowing what his ability would do to his arm is clear-cut proof that he wasn't fighting seriously, otherwise he
would've tried to find another way to deal with them. Just because he didn't find another more time consuming way to finish them off doesn't mean that he couldn't, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
If he was serious then he would consider keeping his arm as that would be a major disadvantage in a dangerous situation. But seeing as he knew of the ability, still touched torune, & purposely ripped off his own arm, it then becomes quite clear that he thought nothing of those fodders.
...because he wouldn't have been able to warp fuu since fuu would jump away before obito fully emerges from the ground instead of trying to attack obito.
That's bullsh*t, why didn't he do it
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? Don't say that it's because obito kicked his arm at him because that doesn't change the fact that he saw obito face to face & didn't even have time to jump away, let alone even think about doing it.
are you kidding me? Kyuubi cloaks = stronger chakra = larger jutsu.
Wrong, the size of a jutsu is based on how much chakra is put into it. Kurama's chakra may be powerful, but the reason why jutsus become larger is because of the sheer quantity of chakra that kurama possesses, it has nothing to do with his power.
Kurama cloak = more chakra volume = larger jutsu
MS Kakashi + rikudou chakra = stronger chakra = larger jutsu.
Wrong again, you're completely ignoring obito's chakra pool which is also massive.
Kakashi + Obito's chakra + Obito's rikudou senjutsu = stronger chakra & more chakra volume = larger jutsu
Jutsus never increase unless you gain more chakra, powerful chakra alone has
never been shown to produce larger jutsus.
...yeah because konan appeared right in front of him. So he reacts when the attack is within punching distance.
Doesn't change the fact that he was blind due to sharingan only being able to see a cloud of chakra resonating from the paper she's controlling & producing simultaneously. His vision was still obstructed.
obito wasn't using his warping abilities, which is why he could use intangibility to quickly.
So what? Lol He still warps faster than
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you can think of, & when he's not teleporting he simply phases through it as I've been saying.
If I go back and bring you the part of my post which explains why obito's katon is useless, will you concede this entire argument? Or are you going to go back and look for yourself?
Lol No, because it's not useless.
Based on what are instant jutsu and kamui the only ways to damage obito before he becomes intangible?
Minato vs Obito
Kakashi/Naruto/Bee/Gai vs Obito
Aside from the exceptions I mentioned, both fights are the only times where obito has been consistently hit, & FTG/kamui are the jutsus to thank for that.
Except naruto doesn't have to be closer or faster than jj madara since obito wasn't in the process of attacking madara and therefore his ability to react defensively would not have been comprimised.
Did you miss the fist that obito has in madara's gut?
Anyways, even when obito is attacking he still phases through objects, kamui reacts independently of obito's senses hence why he's able to become intangible when being attacked from a blindspot.
So stop trying to downplay the feat, nobody else bar god-tiers were able to react to an attack from JJ madara, yet obito phased through him easily. If obito can react to JJ madara's speed then he can react to a measly SM naruto's speed who got
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by a pre-JJ madara.
Meaning if obito attacks, & naruto tries to counter, then unless he's as close to obito as JJ madara was then intangibility reacts & he phases through it.
Plus, that obito was powered by rikudou's chakra as we saw he stole it from madara, and therefore his reactions have nothing to do with MS Obito's.
Lol first of all I need you to provide proof that rikudou chakra increased kamui's speed. The only thing that's been shown to increase the speed of kamui is having both eyes, even more chakra only gives more uses & makes it larger, never faster. [
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]
Kamui's speed never increased with the addition of rikudou chakra, now as for how it could've reacted to madara.
Secondly, kamui has been shown multiple times to react to jutsus that obito is unaware of.
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-
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-
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-
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] Meaning that it's independent of his senses, so even if he fails to react to something intangibility will still activate.
& Finally, obito stole a minuscule amount of rikudou chakra in comparison yet he still managed to react to someone with loads more, the third most in the series to be exact.
Even if we downgrade both characters by making madara pre-JJ & obito pre-rikudou chakra then it's still blatantly obvious that his kamui will react, & since we know that pre-JJ madara > SM naruto in speed then this still means he gets phased through.
Yet they weren't trying to kill obito
Scan stating this?
If you have it, well then that still doesn't change the fact that they were putting all of their effort into trying to hit him, not to mention naruto landed some rasengans that would normally kill or at the very least incapacitate a man.
and Naruto was conserving chakra to re-enter BM which is why he never uses things like tajuu kagebunshin, flash shunshin, or lethal rasengans on obito.
This is what I call an excuse, naruto couldn't touch him without kamui & that's a fact. Stop trying to paint another picture when the manga already showed us how naruto fared against obito.
Also, the most people obito ever faced in CQC were only 2. That has nothing to do with obito fighting an army of people with SM Naruto reactions.
2, 12, 200, irrelevant. They all get phased through like
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. Stop trying to give
SM naruto this godly speed, he's nothing compared to the feats that kamui showed us.
Yet he only fought at most 2 at a time, and everyone was severely holding back against him.
Doesn't matter, their timing was good enough. They were landing attacks at the exact moment that obito was attacking, they left no opening but they still couldn't hit him.
In any case having more clones would just end up being a detriment in the end, they take up more chakra making naruto last even less time than before. & if naruto just tries to spam obito with clones then he simply phases underground & gains some distance.
& I Already covered how holding back, whether they were doing it or not, is irrelevant.
KCM Naruto not using flash shunshin, lethal rasengans or multi clones.
As I said, excuse. He didn't hit him so he didn't hit him, nothing more.
Not using lethal rasengans? No you're right about that one, he was using
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instead. U_U
Gai went gates
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, still missed.
Kakashi not willing to kill him.
Yet he still nearly did, & he was set on having naruto nail him with rasengans.
Obito didn't even fight bee in CQC.
Gyuki tried to
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while he was unaware, still missed.
The biggest pressure obito went up against was a severely holding back KCM naruto and base gai. That's cute.
"Severely holding back naruto"? Get the hell out of here with that fanfiction. Base Gai? Obito laughs at base gai on his own. [
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] & What happened to gyuki & kakashi? They were also part of the fight, even if they weren't fighting simultaneously [which makes no damn difference like you're implying it does] they were still attacking
immediately after eachother & in near-perfect succession.
That's the best way to try & hit obito, but they couldn't manage it even like that. Naruto blindly & stupidly spamming
base clones to try & hurt obito all at once is just going to result in him getting killed. He cant touch him.
Btw that isn't even pressure, that was childs play for obito. His life was
never in danger like it was
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. None of these guys can accomplish what konan did in that scan, which is to completely bypass kamui & force obito to use izanagi.
You have given me zero evidence to even support the notion of kamui being bypassed, now stop denying it as I'm getting tired of explaining the obvious to you.
In fact, I think I've made my point so there's really no reason for me to continue further, nobody agrees that SM naruto stands a chance here & these arguments aren't convincing me otherwise.
obviously since a SM Naruto going for the kill murders the guy who can barely get by a severely holding back KCM Naruto and base Gai.
Fanfiction, SM naruto gets sh*tted on regardless of mindset.
Yet, obito has zero knowledge of who the real one is which means he chooses incorrectly and it's gg for him.
As I said, toad summons, markings on the face, & potentially FRS.
Naruto and his clones have SM marks.
Only three of them do [when you provide the proof], the rest are base since you can't prove that naruto can make a large amount of SM clones, merely that it
could be possible [which doesn't = a valid feat].
How is obito going to tell which naruto summoned the toads?
He watches him do it, this is obviously assuming naruto makes the clones beforehand.
NAruto's clones can create and throw FRS, reread the pain fight.
I don't recall, provide the scans please as I'm not doing your work for you. I gave you my scans & you're disregarding them. I'm not looking for your proof now too, either provide it or your claim remains baseless.
because.....? Concssion accepted.
Because he isn't an idiot, if he doesn't know which naruto is the real one for sure then he isn't going to take such a risk.
& How on earth does this equate to a concession? Smh... U_U
when did i assert that he'd constantly be spamming these moves, and why is spamming moves that end obito even an issue when a normal senpou rasengan blows a hole in juubito?
You're obviously misinformed about obito's abilities, naruto has to spam moves if he wants to have any chance at trying to hit him. Senpou rasengan goes right through obito too, because he phases through it, just like he phases through any attack that SM naruto tries to deliver.
Base Naruto back in the immortals arc had 200 clones creating fuuton rasengans for hours at a time, senpou fuuton rasengan ends obito.
Too bad only three clones can use a senpou rasengan, & too bad they get phased through regardless.
Why in the world is the bolded true? By that logic, obito is incapable of using the bathroom or doing a handstand because the manga hasn't shown us that or stated it.
That's such bad logic dude, every character in the manga is a human being & is portrayed to be that way unless stated to be different, like with obito not needing to eat. [
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] Meaning he can handstand, or use the bathroom all he wants like anyone else.
There are other ways that the manga heavily implies a person can do a jutsu or a feat without having the manga blatantly state the person is capable of doing that or showing them do it on panel.
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This is literally what I was talking about... Naruto stated that he could use more clones albeit at the cost of gathering senjutsu. Thus he can create
three under his those conditions, this doesn't prove he can make an army of SM clones if that's what you were aiming for.
Then there's the fact that naruto made
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which proves that he can use tajuu kagebunshin w/ sage mode.
So? Are those senjutsu clones? This is irrelevant as I already know he can do it.
Ever since his fight with kakuzu, naruto doesn't spam clones unless necessary.
Then stating that he will use an army of senjutsu enhanced clones to fight against one opponent is laughable if you believe this.
Not to mention you contradicted yourself, so naruto doesn't use clones when necessary? Then why didn't he use an army or at least a significant amount of clones to fight obito if you believe it's necessary? The manga canonically disagrees with your belief that naruto thinks an army of clones is necessary in order to defeat obito.
Why does naruto need feats or what you personally deem 'credible hype' in order to use an ability that the manga heavily implies he can do?
He needs feats because there's no concrete proof which states he can use it otherwise. Credible hype is hype that can't be denied by anyone. It's not what
I deem to be credible, any hype coming from another character can't be compared to something someone says about their own limitations & abilities, unless of course that character knows everything about them.
It's simply logic, the only things I deem credible are the things that are
actually credible.
It all depends on whether your theory makes it more plausible than not that obito can use mokuton on whatever level you're trying to attribute to him.
No it doesn't. Obito has
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which grants mokuton, obito knows
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, obito has the sharingan to copy the mokuton jutsus he's seen, obito has used mokuton through the
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, & obito has produced katon on the same level as most of hashi's mokuton.
Multiple scans suggest he can possibly use mokuton on at least a base hashi's level. However I have no feats or statements to confirm this so I won't be using any mokuton feats except for the ones he's shown us by himself.
That's how feats work, it doesn't depend on how good a theory is, it's still a theory at the end of the day. Speculation is not allowed in a VS match, not when talking about feats.
....once again, it all depends on the argument.
No it doesn't.
Wait, are you actually asking me for scans of naruto using three SM clones as if that's something new to you?
As I said earlier I'm not doing your work for you. If you want to make a claim then support it.
The bolded is what you had to necessarily assert in order for your argument about hashirama to make any sense.
Nope, just because hashi has more senjutsu than naruto doesn't mean he can gather it faster, or divide it better.
and how long does obito need to be tangible before it can be reset?
How am I supposed to know that? All I know is that he'll be safe when he does, thanks to either the kamui dimension or just teleporting far enough away.
Based on what does obito have the chakra reserves to use his intangibility the maximum amount of alotted time consecutively and indefinitely?
Based on his senju reserves, plus the fact that he's
never gotten tired due to overusing kamui, only when utilizing the double MS & that was due to opening portals in kaguya's dimension & not his own. [
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]
& Who said that he can do it indefinitely? All he needs to do is outlast SM naruto which isn't a problem with his reserves. Not to mention if obito is ever at risk of losing his chakra all he has to do it warp to his dimension to recuperate, not like he'll need to anyways.
Unless MS Obito has rikudou's chakra, and never goes on the offensive, he doesn't get his feats with rikudou's chakra.
Sorry but unless you can prove that rikudou chakra makes kamui faster then my point still stands.
Plus kamui still outspeeds JJ madara, who outspeeds SM madara, who then outspeeds SM naruto, so even if rikudou chakra is needed in order to react to a
juubi jin, that doesn't mean it's needed to take out a much, much,
much slower opponent.
... which never happens since obito has to actually grab them in order to warp them away, to which he gets ended by a rasengan variant from one of the many SM clones when he tries that.
Multiple SM clones only exist if your fanfiction novel. Base rasengan variants get phased through, & Obito's warp is faster than a jinton. So he won't have a problem waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike seeing as he can't be hit.
Proof that obito DOESN'T have to be controlling the thing he's protecting.
Burden of proof is on you to provide a reason as to why this barrier needs an extra medium.
IF the barrier is like any other barrier, Obito has to use something as a catalyst for the barrier.
Nope, just because it's a barrier jutsu doesn't mean that it works exactly like others.
The sound four had to be right next to it, the hokage needed to be at the edges of it, Juubito needed to fire chakra rods. What suggests that Obito could do it wherever he wanted?
Uchiha kaenjin is different, the chakra from the barrier starts at his fingertips rather than through the catalyst. [
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-
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] Then once obito puts that hand on the ground the barrier goes up. [
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]
The barrier doesn't need a medium, the chakra starts in his hand & most likely travels through the ground.
