Rebound question regarding Zoro and Sanjis strength

[ultraChalk]

Yes, this question does deserve its own thread because it would get lost in the sauce otherwise, and deserves its own topic.

So some people think Zoro has the stronger physical body than Sanji, which I think is sad. Even more sad when I looked at the poll, because there's only 1 flaw in the logic of everybody who thinks that...

So what you guys are saying (Zoro voters), is that Zoro can beat all of Sanjis past opponents by himself, with no weapons/swords?

Because basically you're saying EL Zoro w/ no swords>Jyabura.
You're also saying Alabasta Zoro w/ no swords>Bon Clay.
You're also saying that Zoro can cause the same damage and destruction that Sanji can, with his bare arms.

And yeah, we get that he is (or was) more durable, but that's not what I'm on now. Lets focus more on firepower.

 

[Kai NB]

Swords are his thing, that's just the weapon he utilizes to fight. What you're asking is that if he could defeat Sanji's opponents without his method of fighting, is not fair as in, even if he is stronger than Sanji, he could still lose to those opponents, because his usual method of fighting doesn't involve his fists. He'd lose due to technique rather than physical strength.

Also, power scaling is not an effective method of determining power. The idea that defeating an opponent gives the winner more strength than the loser is completely absurd, as there are several other factors involved besides brute strength that may lead to a victory


To summarize:
This is not a fair question to determine strength. You cannot determine strength by using an opponent as a factor

 

[ultraChalk]

But in One Piece, a large majority of the fights being won are due to strength.

and this question is related to my other thread, which was regarding physical strength of the 2 peoples body. More people said that Zoro was physically more powerful than Sanji, without his swords, so I was egged on to make this thread.

 

[Kai NB]

But in One Piece, a large majority of the fights being won are due to strength.

and this question is related to my other thread, which was regarding physical strength of the 2 peoples body. More people said that Zoro was physically more powerful than Sanji, without his swords, so I was egged on to make this thread.

Like I said, taking away swords doesn't take away his physical strength. It takes away his fighting prowess.

A fight can not ACCURATELY determine physical strength. Even if you claim a majority of fights are won due to strength, that cannot DETERMINE one's physical strength. That's what I'm saying

 

[Bogard]

1- Zoro's swords are for his special techniques/skills but through his sword, his brute strength is emphasized, mainly through his pound canon techniques. According to Brook, it depends heavily on the physical strength of the person. For example, Zoro's 108 pound canon stalemated Luffy's bazooka against the aqua laguna similarly to how Zoro's oni giri stalemated Luffy's bazooka in Whiskey Peak. Post time skip Zoro's 1080 pound phoenix exceeded Luffy's grizzly magnum in power. It's for that reason people think he has more brute strength
2- Jyabura was physically stronger than Sanji. Sanji won due to a special technique increasing the heat and power of his attack
3- Kaku is a swordsman, yet he had 20 more doriki than Jyabura(so physically stronger). So because Zoro is a swordsman doesn't mean he can't have more physical strength considering another swordsman(Kaku) had more than Sanji's opponent
4- He deflected a punch from Oz with just his raw strength. Yes he used a sword, but the power behind it was coming from his own strength(emphasized by Chopper) when Sanji required a special technique increasing his offensive power( a diable jambe combo ) to accomplish a similar feat(arguably greater though)

 

[kyubbi sagemode]

Are we talking pure physical strength? If so zoro is stronger. Zoro lifted a building with one hand in alabasta could alabasata sanji do that? Let's say they arm wrestle zoro would win. Zoros strength feats are way better than sanji.. Sanji only has more leg strength.. That's it. But it's clear zoro is physically stronger and can lift more.

 

[ultraChalk]

Are we talking pure physical strength? If so zoro is stronger. Zoro lifted a building with one hand in alabasta could alabasata sanji do that? Let's say they arm wrestle zoro would win. Zoros strength feats are way better than sanji.. Sanji only has more leg strength.. That's it. But it's clear zoro is physically stronger and can lift more.

so in other words, Zoro w/o swords can do everything Sanji can do, and beat all his opponents, w/o swords.

btw, leg muscle is stronger than arm.

 

[Kai NB]

1- Zoro's swords are for his special techniques/skills but through his sword, his brute strength is emphasized, mainly through his pound canon techniques. According to Brook, it depends heavily on the physical strength of the person. For example, Zoro's 108 pound canon stalemated Luffy's bazooka against the aqua laguna similarly to how Zoro's oni giri stalemated Luffy's bazooka in Whiskey Peak. Post time skip Zoro's 1080 pound phoenix exceeded Luffy's grizzly magnum in power. It's for that reason people think he has more brute strength
2- Jyabura was physically stronger than Sanji. Sanji won due to a special technique increasing the heat and power of his attack
3- Kaku is a swordsman, yet he had 20 more doriki than Jyabura(so physically stronger). So because Zoro is a swordsman doesn't mean he can't have more physical strength considering another swordsman(Kaku) had more than Sanji's opponent
4- He deflected a punch from Oz with just his raw strength. Yes he used a sword, but the power behind it was coming from his own strength(emphasized by Chopper) when Sanji required a special technique increasing his offensive power( a diable jambe combo ) to accomplish a similar feat(arguably greater though)

To be fair, Sanji's technique is still his own strength. He just adds heat. In fact, it doesn't or at least shouldn't, provide a boost in physical strength, but rather a boost in combat effectiveness

 

[Kai NB]

Alright this whole thread is in no way going to solve the problem

First: Physical Strength needs to be specified. That means:

Should it be split into categories (e.g. Upper Body, Lower Body, Mouth?, etc) and then tallied up to determine a winner?
Should Physical Strength be determined by combat strength?
Should Physcial Strength be simply generalized and considered overall strength

Because Physical Strength involves so many factors, it would be completely pointless to generalize and say "overall". You need to explain how Physical strength is determined - IN A FAIR AND REASONABLE MANNER - before continuing with this thread

 

[Bogard]

To be fair, Sanji's technique is still his own strength. He just adds heat. In fact, it doesn't or at least shouldn't, provide a boost in physical strength, but rather a boost in combat effectiveness

The problem is that Sanji tried to kick Oz in the head earlier without diable jambe only to get knocked out, so it's safe to assume the diable jamble combo increased his attack power to allow him to accomplish a feat he couldn't without it. But yes it's Sanji's technique. Never denied it

 

[kyubbi sagemode]

so in other words, Zoro w/o swords can do everything Sanji can do, and beat all his opponents, w/o swords.

btw, leg muscle is stronger than arm.

No when did i say that? Zoros strength feats are above sanji.. You thinks sanji has more arm strength than zoro and can lift more? Someone can have a lot of strength and be able to lift a lot but lose in fight to a guy more skilled and quicker than him. More strength doesn't guarantee victory in a fight. It's kind of like a body builder who can lift a lot vs a very skilled mma fighter.

Zoros arm and body strength>sanjis
Sanji leg strength>zoros leg strength

 

[Kai NB]

The problem is that Sanji tried to kick Oz in the head earlier without diable jambe only to get knocked out, so it's safe to assume the diable jamble combo increased his attack power to allow him to accomplish a feat he couldn't without it. But yes it's Sanji's technique. Never denied it

Regardless the case, before being able to determine this correctly, the OP has to decide how to fairly calculate Physical Strength, if that is not answered, this thread is going nowhere

 

[A v i]

Flying slash/or the attack of a Sword determines the physical strength of a Swordsman according to manga. Zoro uses swords and Sanji uses legs but still their fundamental power is same i.e. their physical strength and Zoro proved that he's better than Sanji on more than one occasion.

 

[-Akuma-]

You *****s still agruing, Sanji is physically better overall though Zoro has superior upper body strength. And without swords Zoro loses to most of Sanji's opponents badly.

 

[Love Cook]

Are we talking pure physical strength? If so zoro is stronger. Zoro lifted a building with one hand in alabasta could alabasata sanji do that? Let's say they arm wrestle zoro would win. Zoros strength feats are way better than sanji.. Sanji only has more leg strength.. That's it. But it's clear zoro is physically stronger and can lift more.

Sanji doesn't care about buildings

[video=youtube;Ts17LmwGAe4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts17LmwGAe4[/video]

 

[Zorø]

You *****s still agruing, Sanji is physically better overall though Zoro has superior upper body strength. And without swords Zoro loses to most of Sanji's opponents badly.

Sanji is not physically stronger than Zoro overall its the other way around. His legs are stronger yes. but overall Zoro is stronger let me ask you what does Zoro mostly do in his spare time if hes not sleeping and getting lost? let me answer that U_U. He trains like mad while Sanji is just a cook and doesnt train at all Zoro's arms are stronger than Sanjis legs this can be proven by the force and damage of Zoro's attacks eg 1080p cannon it takes unimaginable muscle capacity and sheer strength to perform a technique of that caliber even if Zoro didnt have his swords the damage from his muscles would still be destructive. whilst Sanji has never come close to perform a technique like that but hes the stronger one

 

[Love Cook]

Sanji is not physically stronger than Zoro overall its the other way around. His legs are stronger yes. but overall Zoro is stronger let me ask you what does Zoro mostly do in his spare time if hes not sleeping and getting lost? let me answer that U_U. He trains like mad while Sanji is just a cook and doesnt train at all Zoro's arms are stronger than Sanjis legs this can be proven by the force and damage of Zoro's attacks eg 1080p cannon it takes unimaginable muscle capacity and sheer strength to perform a technique of that caliber even if Zoro didnt have his swords the damage from his muscles would still be destructive. whilst Sanji has never come close to perform a technique like that but hes the stronger one

Training really doesn't influence their power at all, that's just a hobby for when they spend that 2 chapters on the Sunny to the next island. It's plot device for Oda to say Boom! they're stronger now than they were last arc. Besides Sanji has his 99 Okama recipes which strengthen his body and mind. If anything that says more about Sanji then Zoro for keeping up with him without the training.

Also the leg muscles is far more powerful than the arm muscles and Sanji doesn't use tools for his attacks. You can't compare blunt damage versus cutting damage. That's like saying that Franky's rockets cause more damage than Zoro's attacks, but that is only due to the explosive nature of his attacks and not his actual power.

Spoiler

In order to compare the two muscle groups, we should think of a way to measure their ability to do work, in this case, an exercise that is similar to each other. Standing shoulder press (aka military press) are analogous to squats. They are each exercises that move weight away from the middle of the body in each direction (upward and downward).
An average male who doesn't workout at all, weighing 150 lbs, 6' tall, could probably shoulder press 40 lbs maybe once, whereas he could probably do a squat (with no weights) maybe 10-30 times.

And Sanji has shown strength feats of that caliber. Check the image or go look up anti-manner kick course.

You must be registered for see images

 

[chopstickchakra]

Yes, this question does deserve its own thread because it would get lost in the sauce otherwise, and deserves its own topic.

So some people think Zoro has the stronger physical body than Sanji, which I think is sad. Even more sad when I looked at the poll, because there's only 1 flaw in the logic of everybody who thinks that...

So what you guys are saying (Zoro voters), is that Zoro can beat all of Sanjis past opponents by himself, with no weapons/swords?

Because basically you're saying EL Zoro w/ no swords>Jyabura.
You're also saying Alabasta Zoro w/ no swords>Bon Clay.
You're also saying that Zoro can cause the same damage and destruction that Sanji can, with his bare arms.

And yeah, we get that he is (or was) more durable, but that's not what I'm on now. Lets focus more on firepower.

Zoro's arms are as strong as Sanji's legs that's all there is to it. The amount of force Zoro can create with his arms is just as much as Sanji, you're acting as though because he has swords he's weaker, but his body is still in peak conditioning. Zoro in Gorilla mode=hardest kick Sanji can do.

 

[Zorø]

Training really doesn't influence their power at all, that's just a hobby for when they spend that 2 chapters on the Sunny to the next island. It's plot device for Oda to say Boom! they're stronger now than they were last arc. Besides Sanji has his 99 Okama recipes which strengthen his body and mind. If anything that says more about Sanji then Zoro for keeping up with him without the training.

Also the leg muscles is far more powerful than the arm muscles and Sanji doesn't use tools for his attacks. You can't compare blunt damage versus cutting damage. That's like saying that Franky's rockets cause more damage than Zoro's attacks, but that is only due to the explosive nature of his attacks and not his actual power.


And Sanji has shown strength feats of that caliber. Check the image or go look up anti-manner kick course.

You must be registered for see images

1.Training does affect their power thats why the whole crew spent 2 years training instead of going new world to get kick around like rag dolls U_U.

2.Sanji aint keeping up with Zoro thats why hes stronger cuz he trains the only thing Sanji is keeping up with Zoro is speed and thats it Zoro is physically superior overall.

3. Of course the leg muscle is stronger than the arm muscle its the muscle that is used the most U_U..however thats not the case comparing Zoro's arm strength with sanjis legs...look at it like this even though Zoro is a swordsman you might think that he doesnt have to use that much strength physically because he has weapons no thats wrong. Ever heard of the saying the weapon is only as strong as its master? Like I said in the post before it takes unimaginable muscle force no mere human can pull of the techniques zoro performs you have to be extraordinary.

4. You kidding me Lol Hell memories can even compare to 1080p cannon. 1080p cannon destruction level is on a whole other level

 

[Love Cook]

1.Training does affect their power thats why the whole crew spent 2 years training instead of going new world to get kick around like rag dolls U_U.

2.Sanji aint keeping up with Zoro thats why hes stronger cuz he trains the only thing Sanji is keeping up with Zoro is speed and thats it Zoro is physically superior overall.

3. Of course the leg muscle is stronger than the arm muscle its the muscle that is used the most U_U..however thats not the case comparing Zoro's arm strength with sanjis legs...look at it like this even though Zoro is a swordsman you might think that he doesnt have to use that much strength physically because he has weapons no thats wrong. Ever heard of the saying the weapon is only as strong as its master? Like I said in the post before it takes unimaginable muscle force no mere human can pull of the techniques zoro performs you have to be extraordinary.

4. You kidding me Lol Hell memories can even compare to 1080p cannon. 1080p cannon destruction level is on a whole other level

Like I said, training is plot device. It's just Zoro's spare time on board of the ship, just like Robin is always reading. Those tiny amounts they have time to do whatever they want on the Sunny won't improve him.

Sanji is portrayed to be almost equal, they non-stop have these little comparisons since part 1.

Never said that Zoro's arms aren't strong, I'm saying that for the amount of damage he does with swords that it is more impressive for Sanji to do the damage that he does with just his feet.

So why is it any different ? Zoro made a cut of mountain size and Sanji grilled a enemy of mountain size instantly. You're not objective now, they're both mountain level finishers. Besides we saw how big Zoro's slash was at 1080, and therefore it's limit. We don't know however if Sanji's hells memories would've been bigger if Wadatsumi was bigger.