Prime Hiruzen + Enma = Undefeated?

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

So, from the time that Tobirama made him Hokage until he died he was undefeated? For 50 years!
Could that be true or do you think we don't know enough about that time?

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[Vapid]

Enma did all of the work.

Hiruzen, even back then, was just hype.

 

[Flakez]

Cool fanfic bruh.

 

[SS100]

not this again......

 

[The Necromancer]

That whole era was filled with Fodders shinobi.

 

[Fair Game]

Prime Hiruzen is God of Shinovi, people just like to hate on old men cause of that bandwagon.

 

[The Necromancer]

Prime Hiruzen is God of Shinovi, people just like to hate on old men cause of that bandwagon.

You mean the featless, hype-based, retconned bandwagon?

 

[VongolaX]

All I can give you is that Enma is truly indestructible, and for that his defense is probably the highest because of the Enma cage.


Still, his offensive power is swinging that staff, shuriken Justu, and five streaming elements.

That's not strong enough to be considered unbeatable.

Just look at his colleagues...

Oonoki was scared sh*tless from Madara all the way to the fourth hokage.

Obito shat on the mist before they can even do anything, the third mizukage died so fast that he probably got nothing accomplished.

Raikage was busy soloing a thousand shinobi's and died early

Sand kage got off panelled by Sasori

At that point you can call yourself whatever hype you want

 

[DMS]

Meh still no feats.

 

[Fair Game]

You mean the featless, hype-based, retconned bandwagon?

Feat-less yet during his time no other ninja nation opposed his rule. Just because he isn't shooting bijuudamas from his mouth or using susano'o equates to fodder. And saying Enma did all the work is a shit quote, Tobirama clearly saw his superior skills. Retconned is an excuse, you of all people should analyze a character and come up with a better response Necro, I swear sometimes you are blatantly wrong. This is one of those occasions.

 

[startup97]

Hashirama and Tobirama believed in his strength enough to watch over the village during the time of the wars. Calling him fodder is ridiculous. He was already shown capable at old age of handling Guruguru while the 5 Kage + Shinobi Alliance couldn't do sh*t.

 

[OG sama]

Hiruzen wasn't even fighting anyone noteworthy back then. If there was a juubi Jin or someone on Naruto or sasukes lvl back then he would have died easily. But regardless he is very strong.

 

[The Necromancer]

Feat-less yet during his time no other ninja nation opposed his rule. Just because he isn't shooting bijuudamas from his mouth or using susano'o equates to fodder. And saying Enma did all the work is a shit quote, Tobirama clearly saw his superior skills. Retconned is an excuse, you of all people should analyze a character and come up with a better response Necro, I swear sometimes you are blatantly wrong. This is one of those occasions.

Hiruzen was opposed by almost no one of merit. Hype or not he was untested and barely stands in the top 20, wherein most of those of above him are teenagers or are in their 20's.

To say he was unopposed is simply foolish and biased. Is it impressive that I'm the strongest man in the world, when the entire world is made up of toddlers?

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Hiruzen wasn't even fighting anyone noteworthy back then. If there was a juubi Jin or someone on Naruto or sasukes lvl back then he would have died easily. But regardless he is very strong.

Yet at an old age he pushed the 9 tailes out of Konoha and defeated Tobirana & Hashirama edo's. So one can presume at his prime he was even stronger. Just beacause no one challenged him doesnt make him a fodder.

 

[The Necromancer]

Yet at an old age he pushed the 9 tailes out of Konoha and defeated Tobirana & Hashirama edo's. So one can presume at his prime he was even stronger. Just beacause no one challenged him doesnt make him a fodder.

Please. (Despite the fact you are taking feats from the anime as nowhere in the manga does it explicitly show Hiruzen pushing the Kyuubi out, rather Hiruzen and a cadre of Konoha shinobi) Akatsuchi, a jonin, could do the same. As could any competent Akimichi.

As for the edo debate, it's not impressive. I'm not going to get into this long-winded debate again, but the edo hokage were in no way special. Part II Kakashi could likely defeat them, even without Kamui.

Hiruzen is given no praise outside of (retconned) Part I. To give Hiruzen so much praise while remaining featless is foolish in my eyes.

 

[Fair Game]

Hiruzen was opposed by almost no one of merit. Hype or not he was untested and barely stands in the top 20, wherein most of those of above him are teenagers or are in their 20's.

To say he was unopposed is simply foolish and biased. Is it impressive that I'm the strongest man in the world, when the entire world is made up of toddlers?

So third raikage, tsuchikage, and the likes are if no merit. Ok suit yourself, don't be blinded by flashy ninjas that were bound to become op simply because they are main characters. Foolish is to compare a character to others of godly status and by default minimize that character's achievements and feats and find it to be logical, what an easy thing to do. Hituzen's versatility can pretty much put him on par with ninjas of the lower top 20 as an old man, you seem to think that Hiruzen was already born old and and therefore a featleass peace of meat, that is not true, digress upon a characters already know abilities and known information to conduct a better understanding of the power of that character. Try harder Necro.

 

[The Necromancer]

So third raikage, tsuchikage, and the likes are if no merit. Ok suit yourself, don't be blinded by flashy ninjas that were bound to become op simply because they are main characters. Foolish is to compare a character to others if godly status and by default minimize that character's achievements and feats and find it to be logical, what an easy thing to do. Hituzen's versatility can pretty much put him on par with ninjas of the lower top 20 as an old man, you seem to think that Hiruzen was already born old and and therefore a featleass peace of meat, that is not true, digress ilupon a characters already know abilities and know information to conduct a better understandung of the power of that character. Try harder Necro.

The Third Raikage decimates Hiruzen, despite the hype. There is no reason to believe otherwise outside of hype. Onoki is one ninja.

You want to tell me being stronger than 2 superb (likely only stronger than 1 superb) shinobi makes one unbeatable?

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen solos.

Spoiler

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Viz Scan Orochimaru - "Knew and could perform all existing Konoha Jutsu"
Hiruzen knows all Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals =

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Hidden Leaf Tech

Neutalizer technique, Ghost Transformation, Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion and all 8 Gates at will.
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave (Anime only)
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Chidori
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lightning Beast Running Technique
Lightning Cutter
Lightning Release Shadow Clone
Lightning Transmission (Manga only)
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Rasengan
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Silent Killing
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough


Hiruzen (sarutobi clan)
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique


Hiruzen w/ Enma
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment



VIZ PROOF.

"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

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[/IMG]

 

[SMX]

I could've sworn orichimaru killed fodder hiruzen and his fodder pet enma

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

The Third Raikage decimates Hiruzen, despite the hype. There is no reason to believe otherwise outside of hype. Onoki is one ninja.

You want to tell me being stronger than 2 superb (likely only stronger than 1 superb) shinobi makes one unbeatable?

Some people have no imagination, like you. Just beacause we didnt see Hiruzen at his prime doesnt mean he wasnt beast.