[VS] SM Naruto vs SM Jiraiya

Leathercandle

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Location: Kimimaro vs Gaara

Intent: kill

Both start in SM. Naruto has 2 clones at Mt. M. Jiraiya has both Fukasaku and Shima on his shoulders.

Kurama can come out when Naruto is pushed far enough like how he influenced Naruto in his fight vs Pain.

Start range: mid.

Who wins?

NOTE: Even though in the manga/anime each of them having the same summoning toad fighting for them at the same time is not possible, this will be changed so both of Naruto's and Jiraiya's full abilities can be tested in SM for this battle. Basically what this means is that if they both summoned Gamabunta, two Gamabunta's would be summoned, neither one being a clone. I know this is not appealing to some people, but again, this is so we can measure both character's full SM abilities against each other, which includes their summonings.
 

ARGUS

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Naruto obviously wins this

He is above jiraiya in everything, with superior firepower, reflexes, speed, and better mastery of SM, its pretty clear that he wins this
 

Beans2

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Naruto obviously wins this

He is above jiraiya in everything, with superior firepower, reflexes, speed, and better mastery of SM, its pretty clear that he wins this
Restrict Jinchuuriki transformations; Naruto still takes a fat dump on Jiraiya.
See I never understood this. People automatically place Naruto above Jiraiya without really thinking about it, they just go mostly by manga portrayal and base it off the fact that Naruto "won" against the Pains whereas Jiraiya lost badly...and the fact that Naruto surpassed Jiraiya in his senjutsu training and became a "perfect Sage" while Jiraiya is still "imperfect".

But if we take a closer look at things, is Naruto really that much stronger than Jiraiya? For one, Naruto can remain in Sage Mode only 5 minutes at a time, and can only prepare two shadow clones to gather nature energy at a time (which in itself, has its downsides: the clones need to stay completely still to gather nature energy on the battlefield and Naruto has to guard and protect these clones from his opponent so they aren't simply killed making his efforts wasted.) Whereas Jiraiya with Fukusaku and Shima on his shoulders has unlimited Sage Mode, chakra permitting of course.

What's more, is that all toads of Myobokuzan respect Jiraiya and are more loyal to him than Naruto, for obvious reasons, like the fact that Jiraiya has a much closer relationship with them all. Should Naruto summon any toads to do battle against Jiraiya, they would instantly betray him and side with the one they know better (Jiraiya). This makes a huge difference in the battle, since all toads (boss toads, Barrier toads, Sage toads, even the toad which holds the key to the Kyubi) are on Jiraiya's side.

Jiraiya also has two teammates (Fukusaku and Shima) to help him analyze the battle, strategize, and perform powerful combo attacks with him, as well as act as his support. Two heads is better than one, so three heads are clearly superior. You might disregard Fukusaku and Shima for the most part they actually have very powerful and versatile abilities, which are increased even more when performing combo attacks with Jiraiya or each other. They have Frog Song, Toad Confrontation Chant, Goemon, sensing, both are equipped with tongues to grapple their opponents (Fukusaku's can be sharpened to cut through solid steel and Shima's can poison opponents), either can summon 4 boss toads on their own so Jiraiya can preserve his chakra, they just add so much more to the battle.

Then you factor in Jiraiya's versatility. He has a huge arsenal of jutsu in all shapes and forms which can be used for many different various purposes, but what can Naruto do? Shadow clones (which Jiraiya can do), rasengan (which Jiraiya can do), summong toads (which will immediately side with Jiraiya), and Rasenshuriken. That's pretty much it.

Then there's this whole "perfect Sage vs imperfect Sage" stuff...well we already know that Jiraiya has an advantage in that he can remain in SM much longer than Naruto. The main difference is that Jiraiya obtains some toadlike characteristics, which will make him unpopular with the ladies but oh well. His sensing isn't as good as Naruto's, but this can be compensated for the fact that he has two sensors on his shoulders with over 800 years of experience each, in addition to a sensing barrier. His taijutsu isn't as good either, but that's only a factor if Naruto can close the gap between them very quickly.

Under the OP's conditions Naruto obviously wins. Under normal conditions in which they both start in base form, I would give it to Jiraiya mid difficulty. If the conditions are normal but they both start in Sage Mode, I would give it to Jiraiya high difficulty.
 

KidGamer65

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See I never understood this. People automatically place Naruto above Jiraiya without really thinking about it, they just go mostly by manga portrayal and base it off the fact that Naruto "won" against the Pains whereas Jiraiya lost badly...and the fact that Naruto surpassed Jiraiya in his senjutsu training and became a "perfect Sage" while Jiraiya is still "imperfect".
Naturally we are going to go by portrayal...but feats are also in his favor. Pain Arc Naruto was stated and portrayed to be above Jiraiya, War Arc SM Naruto is a tier above Pain Arc SM Naruto.

But if we take a closer look at things, is Naruto really that much stronger than Jiraiya? For one, Naruto can remain in Sage Mode only 5 minutes at a time, and can only prepare two shadow clones to gather nature energy at a time (which in itself, has its downsides: the clones need to stay completely still to gather nature energy on the battlefield and Naruto has to guard and protect these clones from his opponent so they aren't simply killed making his efforts wasted.) Whereas Jiraiya with Fukusaku and Shima on his shoulders has unlimited Sage Mode, chakra permitting of course.
OP said that he wants to test their full abilities, so Naruto gets copies of the Toads. Thus he can enter and stay in Sage Mode indefinitely. Besides, even without them, Naruto's limit is clearly no longer five minutes.

-He did training to extend it.

-Used Sage Mode from the time he attacked Madara to after he was revived, and that was much longer than a mere 5 minutes. Not to mention he used a giant FRS, so 3 FRS aren't his limit anymore either, meaning he has more Sage Chakra available to him. He can also enter Sage Mode in a few seconds, so the clones aren't necessary.

What's more, is that all toads of Myobokuzan respect Jiraiya and are more loyal to him than Naruto, for obvious reasons, like the fact that Jiraiya has a much closer relationship with them all. Should Naruto summon any toads to do battle against Jiraiya, they would instantly betray him and side with the one they know better (Jiraiya). This makes a huge difference in the battle, since all toads (boss toads, Barrier toads, Sage toads, even the toad which holds the key to the Kyubi) are on Jiraiya's side.
OP gave Naruto clones of the Toads.

Jiraiya also has two teammates (Fukusaku and Shima) to help him analyze the battle, strategize, and perform powerful combo attacks with him, as well as act as his support. Two heads is better than one, so three heads are clearly superior. You might disregard Fukusaku and Shima for the most part they actually have very powerful and versatile abilities, which are increased even more when performing combo attacks with Jiraiya or each other. They have Frog Song, Toad Confrontation Chant, Goemon, sensing, both are equipped with tongues to grapple their opponents (Fukusaku's can be sharpened to cut through solid steel and Shima's can poison opponents), either can summon 4 boss toads on their own so Jiraiya can preserve his chakra, they just add so much more to the battle.
Frog Song would paralyze Naruto, but then again many clones let Naruto not get caught by the technique, since Jiraiya won't know which one is the original and which one isn't. Their elemental Ninjutsu get evaded, Gama Rinsho isn't happening here, not when Jiraiya isn't going to last that long, and summoning 4 Boss Toads is useless when Pain Arc Naruto already fodderized boss toad level summons. Pain's summons.

And Naruto's sensing>>Jiraiya and his Toad's sensing.

But once again, read OP. They each get their own set of toads.

Then you factor in Jiraiya's versatility. He has a huge arsenal of jutsu in all shapes and forms which can be used for many different various purposes, but what can Naruto do? Shadow clones (which Jiraiya can do), rasengan (which Jiraiya can do), summong toads (which will immediately side with Jiraiya), and Rasenshuriken. That's pretty much it.
Except Naruto does everything he does better than Jiraiya.

-Better at clones.

-Far better at the Rasengan.

-FRS

Then there's this whole "perfect Sage vs imperfect Sage" stuff...well we already know that Jiraiya has an advantage in that he can remain in SM much longer than Naruto. The main difference is that Jiraiya obtains some toadlike characteristics, which will make him unpopular with the ladies but oh well. His sensing isn't as good as Naruto's, but this can be compensated for the fact that he has two sensors on his shoulders with over 800 years of experience each, in addition to a sensing barrier. His taijutsu isn't as good either, but that's only a factor if Naruto can close the gap between them very quickly.
Naruto>Jiraiya in strength, speed and reflexes going by feats, most likely durability too since Perfect Sages should get a better boost, and they do, which is why Naruto's physical abilities are so much better than Jiraiya's by feats even though they aren't in Base.

Even with the Toad Sage's Sensing and his barrier, Naruto's sensing is still vastly superior as it acts just like Sharingan, precognition, but in the form of sensing.

Naruto is faster than Jiraiya, has better reflexes, and has clones to propel himself. There is no way that he isn't closing the gap, and once that happens, Jiraiya gets dominated by Frog Katas and superior strength and reflexes. Along with some Rasengan variants for good measure.

Under the OP's conditions Naruto obviously wins. Under normal conditions in which they both start in base form, I would give it to Jiraiya mid difficulty. If the conditions are normal but they both start in Sage Mode, I would give it to Jiraiya high difficulty.
If they both start in Base w/ no restrictions besides the fact that Naruto can't go above Sage Mode, he stomps Jiraiya. Jiraiya takes a while to summon the Toad Sages, Naruto enters Sage Mode in a matter of seconds. He enters it, attacks Jiraiya and slaughters him.

If they both start in Sage Mode, War Arc Naruto still destroys him due to being superior in pretty much everything except for irrelevant stuff like versatility.
 

InfamousB

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Comparing someone who managed the same feats as J-man with intel, An army of summons at his disposal, a whole village backing him, kurama to go wild and save him from capture, had clones in sage mode on stand by, entered the battle in sage mode, need I say more?
To j-man who had to survive, fight, while trying to go into sage mode, and then managed to still take out 3 peins via genjutsu, trap 1 in a toad, rasengan destroy another, and had 0 intel.

Yeah okay, J-man > Nardo anyday, just my opinion. War arc naruto no, pein arc naruto J-man beats that ass. Rasen shuriken suppose to be naruto trump card against J-mans large variety of jutsu's? I think not.
 

lanakui8

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Comparing someone who managed the same feats as J-man with intel, An army of summons at his disposal, a whole village backing him, kurama to go wild and save him from capture, had clones in sage mode on stand by, entered the battle in sage mode, need I say more?
To j-man who had to survive, fight, while trying to go into sage mode, and then managed to still take out 3 peins via genjutsu, trap 1 in a toad, rasengan destroy another, and had 0 intel.
....but naruto actually won. Also, naruto didn't have the whole village backing him up, the only backup he received was hinata, everyone else was told to just stay out of his way.

Jman beat 3 due to pain having no knowledge on his genjutsu, and got wrecked, and the only reason he even got into SM was due to pain having no knowledge on that mode and fighting him with just a single path at the start.

Yeah okay, J-man > Nardo anyday, just my opinion. War arc naruto no, pein arc naruto J-man beats that ass. Rasen shuriken suppose to be naruto trump card against J-mans large variety of jutsu's? I think not.
lol since when does having a large variety of jutsu really mean anything? Kakashi has over a thousand jutsu, yet all he does is use kamui and raikiri.
 

Beans2

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....but naruto actually won. Also, naruto didn't have the whole village backing him up, the only backup he received was hinata, everyone else was told to just stay out of his way.
Lets see he had help from Shima, Fukusaku, Gamakichi, 3 boss toads, katsuyu relaying him information on every one of the different paths, tendo pain for having a cool-down time for most of the fight and couldn't use his abilities, hinata, the kyubi, and even his dad for stopping the nine tails transformation and allowing him to finish tendo pain

Jman beat 3 due to pain having no knowledge on his genjutsu, and got wrecked, and the only reason he even got into SM was due to pain having no knowledge on that mode and fighting him with just a single path at the start.
Seriously no intel on his genjutsu, this applies to jman too you realize he knew none of the paths' abilities at all or their linked vision so everything was a surprise unlike naruto who had full intel on all the pains' abilities and he only lost an arm because asura path snuck on him and Jiraiya thought there were only 3 pains. And dont even bring up jiraiya going into sage mode considering naruto started his battle in SM because he entered it at mt myoboku not to mention the two clones he prepped there gathering nature energy which saved his ass during the pain fight. If naruto started in base things would not have ended well for him.


lol since when does having a large variety of jutsu really mean anything? Kakashi has over a thousand jutsu, yet all he does is use kamui and raikiri.
It means he has all types of jutsu which can be used in all sorts of different situations when the time calls for them and jiraiya actually uses them all unlike kakashi
 
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InfamousB

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Lets see he had help from Shima, Fukusaku, Gamakichi, 3 boss toads, katsuyu relaying him information on every one of the different paths, tendo pain for having a cool-down time for most of the fight and couldn't use his abilities, hinata, the kyubi, and even his fcking dad for stopping the nine tails transformation and allowing him to finish tendo pain



Seriously no intel on his genjutsu, this applies to jman too you realize he knew none of the paths' abilities at all or their linked vision so everything was a surprise unlike naruto who had full intel on all the pains' abilities and he only lost a goddamn arm because asura path snuck on him and Jiraiya thought there were only 3 pains. And lmao about you even bring up jiraiya going into sage mode considering naruto started his battle in SM because he entered it at mt myoboku not to mention the two freakin clones he prepped there gathering nature energy which saved his ass during the pain fight. If naruto started in base animal path would have wrecked him in 5 minutes




It means he has all types of jutsu which can be used in all sorts of different situations when the time calls for them and jiraiya actually uses them all unlike kakashi
lol, +rep man, people are so delusional, they will never understand this. "Naruto beat pein nonsense" it's pathetic. And they forget the whole damn village took part into fighting the peins, all of anbu special forces, kakashi, and everybody else did their part.
 

Beans2

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Naturally we are going to go by portrayal...but feats are also in his favor. Pain Arc Naruto was stated and portrayed to be above Jiraiya, War Arc SM Naruto is a tier above Pain Arc SM Naruto.

OP said that he wants to test their full abilities, so Naruto gets copies of the Toads. Thus he can enter and stay in Sage Mode indefinitely. Besides, even without them, Naruto's limit is clearly no longer five minutes.

-He did training to extend it.

-Used Sage Mode from the time he attacked Madara to after he was revived, and that was much longer than a mere 5 minutes. Not to mention he used a giant FRS, so 3 FRS aren't his limit anymore either, meaning he has more Sage Chakra available to him. He can also enter Sage Mode in a few seconds, so the clones aren't necessary.
I was referring to Pain Arc SM Naruto, I don't think Jiraiya can beat the War Arc version.

OP gave Naruto clones of the Toads.
I know, I was ignoring the conditions because I'm analyzing how an actual, realistic battle between the two of them would go.


Frog Song would paralyze Naruto, but then again many clones let Naruto not get caught by the technique, since Jiraiya won't know which one is the original and which one isn't. Their elemental Ninjutsu get evaded, Gama Rinsho isn't happening here, not when Jiraiya isn't going to last that long, and summoning 4 Boss Toads is useless when Pain Arc Naruto already fodderized boss toad level summons. Pain's summons.

And Naruto's sensing>>Jiraiya and his Toad's sensing.

But once again, read OP. They each get their own set of toads.
Naruto's sensing and reflexes aren't going to enable him to just dodge everything. Some of Jiraiya's AoE jutsu are just to big like or , or even Frog Song, , besides Fukusaku and Shima can face different directions and both use the technique simultaneously which means Naruto is surely caught by the soundwaves. Jiraiya can pull of Gama Rinsho, but I will not go into that since I think it makes a rather boring argument plus he has other ways of winning. @Bold, yes he did - with Fukusaku and Shima's help.


Except Naruto does everything he does better than Jiraiya.

-Better at clones.

-Far better at the Rasengan.

-FRS

Naruto>Jiraiya in strength, speed and reflexes going by feats, most likely durability too since Perfect Sages should get a better boost, and they do, which is why Naruto's physical abilities are so much better than Jiraiya's by feats even though they aren't in Base.

Even with the Toad Sage's Sensing and his barrier, Naruto's sensing is still vastly superior as it acts just like Sharingan, precognition, but in the form of sensing.
Strength speed and reflexes really don't give Naruto much of an advantage against Jiraiya's overwhelming arsenal of ninjutsu unless they get into close combat. He is better than Jiraiya at all those things, but Jiraiya has dozens of other jutsu that Naruto cannot perform.

Naruto is faster than Jiraiya, has better reflexes, and has clones to propel himself. There is no way that he isn't closing the gap, and once that happens, Jiraiya gets dominated by Frog Katas and superior strength and reflexes. Along with some Rasengan variants for good measure.
Except Jiraiya can summon a toad and then order the toad to hop away to increase the distance before Naruto closes the gap. Gamakichi jumped over hundreds of Juubi clones in one leap, I don't think I need to show you the distance that toads are capable of jumping. What's more Jiraiya can use various techniques to slow down Naruto or buy him time, like Yomi Numa.


If they both start in Base w/ no restrictions besides the fact that Naruto can't go above Sage Mode, he stomps Jiraiya. Jiraiya takes a while to summon the Toad Sages, Naruto enters Sage Mode in a matter of seconds. He enters it, attacks Jiraiya and slaughters him.
Yes, because Jiraiya is just going to let Naruto sit still and enter Sage Mode. Yomi Numa or a simple katon pretty much ends it right off the bat. Kebari Senbon mows down hordes of clones. Jiraiya stomps Naruto in base before either of them enter SM.

If they both start in Sage Mode, War Arc Naruto still destroys him due to being superior in pretty much everything except for irrelevant stuff like versatility.
War Arc Naruto wins, Pain Arc Naruto loses to Jiraiya mid difficulty. Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa, Naruto jumps up into the air to avoid it. Shima extends her tongue and wraps it around Naruto since he can't dodge in midair, then he gets poisoned. Or the toad sages just paralyze him and his clones with frog call then Jiraiya swiftly finishes him. Or Jiraiya ends it with one massive oil+fire combo with Bunta. Or he summons a giant toad intestine which proceeds to digest Naruto and literally turn him into poop. There are literally so many ways for Jiraiya to win I don't see how Naruto stands a chance.
 
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