[Discussion] The whole 'moral' side of One Piece makes little sense

[ayush0735]

One piece has been about right and wrong; and the sense of justice from the very beginning. Though a great storyline in itself, I believe the 'moral' angle of the story is highly illogical. We can all agree to the fact that the series considers the World Government evil just because it eradicated the Ancient Empire. I do not understand why it matters. Battles and takeovers of the kingdom is a normal thing in history. Why blame the world government just for winning a war? Lets look at facts:

- The marines, a faction of World Government, are responsible for maintaining peace in the world. They are able to fulfill their duty in many places. People look upto them.

- The pirates (barring a few) create chaos across the world as is evident by the reaction of the people.

- Most of the crimes committed are by pirates/schichibukai or rogue marine soldiers (with an establishment as large as the world government, it is not possible to avoid these circumstances)

- There is a status difference b/s royal and normal families but that cannot be eradicates. This will always be there and we can see that throughout our world that we live in. Doesn't Luffy abuse his power by fighting with marines who are just fighting against pirates? If he is so concerned, why not convince them rather than fighting and killing thousands of innocent marine soldiers? He injured/killed thousands just to save Robin (who one can easily assume to be a big threat. I dare say that the Government is trying to protect the people)

- Whats wrong with trying to kill all pirates and Ace (Marineford arc) or kill Robin (Ennies Lobby). I mention these two incidents since the series portray Marines to be the villians here.

- The only thing where World Government goes too far is Tyrabbuntu. However, they are basically spoiled brats and do not actually interfere in the world's political matters. The political matters are taken care by Gorosei, Fleet Admiral etc. We can all say that Sengoku/Akainu want the world free of criminals. Whats wrong with that?

- People mat not see Fishmen/Tontatta as equals but so do they not see cattle/chicken/fish as equals. Whats wrong with that? They are not humans.

In brief, I am trying to say that the concept of One Piece is flawed because it portrays the WG is a villian and Luffy is the hero. However, I think Luffy is selfish only protecting his comrades and injuring thousand others abusing his power without understanding if other people are criminals or not. It can be argued that it is not possible to know about everyone but the argument will also be valid for WG then. Luffy just has another ideology, that is it.

 

[My Username]

I agree .

 

[Joseph Gomes]

It's a story about Pirates, the World Government is obviously the villain

If you dislike Pirates, don't watch One Piece. Because the pirates are the hero from the story's point of view. If you don't get the POV, don't call it illogical

 

[Fireplay]

One Piece hasn't really been about "good" and "evil". Its a manga about pirates, the main character does some selfish shit which eventually benefits others which makes the viewer consider it "good". There are plenty of people caught in the crossfire of Luffy's selfish actions against the WG but Luffy himself said that he isn't "good" or "evil" he's a pirate and wether you consider him good or evil is up to you.

Also the fact that the WG is corrupt plays a huge role in this whole thing.

When it comes down to other pirates there isn't good or evil.
There are two types of pirates.

Peace main: Those who fit in this category would be Luffy, Shanks, WB etc.
Morganeers: Blackbeard, Moriah, Crocodile etc.

 

[ayush0735]

I dont think the story is about Pirates. It is about the 'right' sense of justice. Also, the story has been trying to showcase how WG is the villian.

I am trying to say that the depiction of WG as villian does not make logical sense and is not convincing at all. Instead, it feels like the story is only thinking from one point of view which nullifies the deep meaning that One Piece has always been known for.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

One Piece hasn't really been about "good" and "evil". Its a manga about pirates, the main character does some selfish shit which eventually benefits others which makes the viewer consider it "good". There are plenty of people caught in the crossfire of Luffy's selfish actions against the WG but Luffy himself said that he isn't "good" or "evil" he's a pirate and whether you consider him good or evil is up to you.

Also the fact that the WG is corrupt plays a huge role in this whole thing.

When it comes down to other pirates there isn't good or evil.
There are two types of pirates.

Peace main: Those who fit in this category would be Luffy, Shanks, WB etc.
Morganeers: Blackbeard, Moriah, Crocodile etc.

Exactly, Luffy has frequently pointed out that he's not a hero. Even Zoro has done the same. Why do people think Luffy is trying to be a good guy? He's doing what he wants, being pirate gives him freedom. That's what piracy is about in One Piece,. It's about freedom, not being good or bad, which has been said multiple times

 

[Skull Knight]

actually luffy is like jack sparrow.it doesnot matter if world govt is against him or not,his dream is just to find one piece. very much similar to jack sparrow who is always in search of treasures or hidden artifacts.obviously WG willb e against him but they are no innocents.just look what they did with robin and his country(whatever u can call it).same goes for celestial dragons.they are sick bastards.luffy is just like revolutionary when he punched that celestial dragon.so both WG and pirates are no good persons in general.

 

[ayush0735]

I am not talking about Luffy. I am talking about the story itself. As many believe and I too, one piece is about Void century and the Ancient Kingdom. If One Piece dint exist, the story will not have any meaning. I am only talking about the moral side of the story.

 

[Olorin]

so basically you just said genocide, slavery etc is ok?

the WG are shown as villains because they in fact ARE the villain, a villain is defined by some ''evil'' action important to the plot

I say committing genocide, supporting slavery and human trade, treating humans as animals, racism, ... fits that description

just look at what WG did with Ohara
look what they did to Flevance
what they the nobles are doing
...

but not everyone in the WG is a bad person, that's what makes this villain interesting

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I am not talking about Luffy. I am talking about the story itself. As many believe and I too, one piece is about Void century and the Ancient Kingdom. If One Piece dint exist, the story will not have any meaning. I am only talking about the moral side of the story.

One Piece is about Luffy and his friends, Luffy matters most in the story

And let me tell you something else, Eustass Kid has been initially portrayed as a bad guy in One Piece. It's been specifically said that Kid had a higher bounty than Luffy in Part 1 because Kid attacked civilians. Anybody who attack and torture in One Piece are usually shown negatively. Characters are good and bad in One Piece depending on their interaction with the Strawhats.

Pirates were never shown as good people, they can be admirable but not good people. And by EOS we might get to see that WG are worse than Pirates actually (the celestial dragons showed indications) So many people hate Roger for being the Pirate King, that's why Ace has been through hell in childhood

 

[silmarill]

We can all agree to the fact that the series considers the World Government evil just because it eradicated the Ancient Empire.

Actually that is just an assumption
WG are hiding stuff, so far we as readers don't know what it is they are keeping secret but if they eradicate whole country's who are in search for answers it should tell u that it will be something far worse as "some faction that destroyed another faction long ago".. I mean who gives a sh!t about that? The world and it's people don't give a flying fuk about some ancient kingdom that was destroyed 900 years ago

 

[ayush0735]

so basically you just said genocide, slavery etc is ok?

the WG are shown as villains because they in fact ARE the villain, a villain is defined by some ''evil'' action important to the plot

I say committing genocide, supporting slavery and human trade, treating humans as animals, racism, ... fits that description

just look at what WG did with Ohara
look what they did to Flevance
what they the nobles are doing
...

but not everyone in the WG is a bad person, that's what makes this villain interesting

As I mentioned earlier, there are rogue Marines/people in WG whose actions should not define the WG entity as whole. Activities like Slavery may be supported by people like these. Furthermore, slaves mostly consist of pirates/ non-humans. Ohara incident is also not wrong since it is a live example as to how the WG will take any measures to protect the world and has no interest in learning about the ancient weapons. (CP9 wanted to learn about weapons for its own good - rogue marine)

We can all agree to the fact that the series considers the World Government evil just because it eradicated the Ancient Empire.

Actually that is just an assumption
WG are hiding stuff, so far we as readers don't know what it is they are keeping secret but if they eradicate whole country's who are in search for answers it should tell u that it will be something far worse as "some faction that destroyed another faction long ago".. I mean who gives a sh!t about that? The world and it's people don't give a flying fuk about some ancient kingdom that was destroyed 900 years ago

How does it matter what the ancestors of WG did 900 years ago. Even if it was something terrible, it does not matter. What matters is how the people perceive the current governance and are they happy with it. I think more or less they are. Tyrabunto being the only exception. However, if the fight was against Tyrabunto, the pirates should target them, not the Government itself. Please remember these are two separate entities. It is much easier to kill these Celestial Dragons rather than destroy WG

 

[Punk Hazard]

One Piece hasn't really been about "good" and "evil". Its a manga about pirates, the main character does some selfish shit which eventually benefits others which makes the viewer consider it "good". There are plenty of people caught in the crossfire of Luffy's selfish actions against the WG but Luffy himself said that he isn't "good" or "evil" he's a pirate and wether you consider him good or evil is up to you.

Also the fact that the WG is corrupt plays a huge role in this whole thing.

When it comes down to other pirates there isn't good or evil.
There are two types of pirates.

Peace main: Those who fit in this category would be Luffy, Shanks, WB etc.
Morganeers: Blackbeard, Moriah, Crocodile etc.

Thread over .

 

[cptenn94]

I disagree.

Luffy does not have any political or moral views of the world. He just wants to be free, and protect his friends, and have adventures.

He along the way does good things. He frees countries along the way, and defeats mostly bad guys.

And before you say that the WG has good morals, I might remind you that up until enies lobby, luffy had not directly attacked the marines(he did attack morgan, but the marines recognized his corruption after it came to the light)

Yet luffy was pursued and attacked, just because he was strong, and not bowing down to the authority of the marines.


Throughout one piece, there have been plenty of bad marines. Marines who were corrupt and accepting bribes, and doing all sorts of dirty deeds. Marines who used excessive force, and only cared about doing what they wanted(see spandam unnecessarily tormenting robin, and eagerly to wave the authority to use buster call).

However the marines are not bad themselves.

The marines are mostly just a pawn of the WG. Which is corrupt, and completely power hungry. They are so power hungry that in order to keep their power, they do not let countries leave the WG, and they wipe out thousands of innocent people, just because a few knew about some history that was being covered up.

Then they spent 20 years hunting down a little girl, who at the beginning of the hunt, was guilty of nothing more than being able to read ancient rocks, telling a history that the WG does not want anyone to know.

Then you have the WG abusing and using laws hometown, extracting as much wealth as they could from them, and then murdering everysingle person from that town.

In both instances, the WG offered to give a ride for the innocent civilians(women and children) a ride out of there, and in both instances they massacred them instead.

The WG is like nazi germany, or communist russia. Dictating, lying to the people, murdering mass amounts of the innocent population.



Just because the WG goes and does what it can to make the world stable, and peaceful, does not mean that they are moral.

Unless you honestly think, that it is moral to go wipe out nations of people in (who are poor or in conflict)africa, or to completely destroy the middle east, to start to create peace and stability, then you cannot claim the WG is moral.



So conclusion.

The WG is corrupt and powerhungry. It does not allow people to be free at all. It takes what it wants where it wants to.
Through Its dictating, corrupt power structure, injustice and all the massacres it does, it is directly responsible for there being so many pirates. Pretty much anyone who stands up alone against the WG, is labeled as a pirate, and is given a bounty. Even though they do not want to do so. Robin just wanted to learn history, and be a normal girl. Yet she was hunted and was FORCED to take refuge with criminals and pirates, just to survive.

The WG may be corrupt, but the marines for the most part are not. They believe in justice, and many of them believe what the WG does is wrong. They are for the most part moral people, who are just forced to do the dirty work for the WG. They are just pawns to the WG.

The civilians are just normal people.

There are some moral pirates(such as Luffy), who just want to be free, and protect his friends.


Then there is the corrupt immoral pirates. People only concerned about selfishness.


You have on one end, the corrupt immoral WG. They try to control and dictate everything. Then on the other end you have the bad pirates.

Neither are good choices for who you want in power.

Thus that leaves the Rev army and good pirates.


Oda in a early version of the first chapter of one piece, directly had luffy say he was a good pirate. He directly had a distinct difference, and directly said there are good pirates and bad pirates. Though this did not make it to the version we have now, the themes are still there.

Finally in true conclusion, Oda has clearly been portraying the WG as bad, and bad pirates as bad. The fact that he goes out of his way to show marines who are dissatisified with the "justice" of the WG, and introduced the rev army further enforces that oda is portraying the WG as bad, not the marines themselves.

So WG= villian
Bad pirates=villian
Marines=antagonist, but not a villian.
Good pirates=protagonist, but not hero
Rev army=Protagonist and hero
SH crew=Protagonist and heroic.

 

[Fireplay]

I disagree.

Luffy does not have any political or moral views of the world. He just wants to be free, and protect his friends, and have adventures.

He along the way does good things. He frees countries along the way, and defeats mostly bad guys.

And before you say that the WG has good morals, I might remind you that up until enies lobby, luffy had not directly attacked the marines(he did attack morgan, but the marines recognized his corruption after it came to the light)

Yet luffy was pursued and attacked, just because he was strong, and not bowing down to the authority of the marines.


Throughout one piece, there have been plenty of bad marines. Marines who were corrupt and accepting bribes, and doing all sorts of dirty deeds. Marines who used excessive force, and only cared about doing what they wanted(see spandam unnecessarily tormenting robin, and eagerly to wave the authority to use buster call).

However the marines are not bad themselves.

The marines are mostly just a pawn of the WG. Which is corrupt, and completely power hungry. They are so power hungry that in order to keep their power, they do not let countries leave the WG, and they wipe out thousands of innocent people, just because a few knew about some history that was being covered up.

Then they spent 20 years hunting down a little girl, who at the beginning of the hunt, was guilty of nothing more than being able to read ancient rocks, telling a history that the WG does not want anyone to know.

Then you have the WG abusing and using laws hometown, extracting as much wealth as they could from them, and then murdering everysingle person from that town.

In both instances, the WG offered to give a ride for the innocent civilians(women and children) a ride out of there, and in both instances they massacred them instead.

The WG is like nazi germany, or communist russia. Dictating, lying to the people, murdering mass amounts of the innocent population.



Just because the WG goes and does what it can to make the world stable, and peaceful, does not mean that they are moral.

Unless you honestly think, that it is moral to go wipe out nations of people in (who are poor or in conflict)africa, or to completely destroy the middle east, to start to create peace and stability, then you cannot claim the WG is moral.



So conclusion.

The WG is corrupt and powerhungry. It does not allow people to be free at all. It takes what it wants where it wants to.
Through Its dictating, corrupt power structure, injustice and all the massacres it does, it is directly responsible for there being so many pirates. Pretty much anyone who stands up alone against the WG, is labeled as a pirate, and is given a bounty. Even though they do not want to do so. Robin just wanted to learn history, and be a normal girl. Yet she was hunted and was FORCED to take refuge with criminals and pirates, just to survive.

The WG may be corrupt, but the marines for the most part are not. They believe in justice, and many of them believe what the WG does is wrong. They are for the most part moral people, who are just forced to do the dirty work for the WG. They are just pawns to the WG.

The civilians are just normal people.

There are some moral pirates(such as Luffy), who just want to be free, and protect his friends.


Then there is the corrupt immoral pirates. People only concerned about selfishness.


You have on one end, the corrupt immoral WG. They try to control and dictate everything. Then on the other end you have the bad pirates.

Neither are good choices for who you want in power.

Thus that leaves the Rev army and good pirates.


Oda in a early version of the first chapter of one piece, directly had luffy say he was a good pirate. He directly had a distinct difference, and directly said there are good pirates and bad pirates. Though this did not make it to the version we have now, the themes are still there.

Finally in true conclusion, Oda has clearly been portraying the WG as bad, and bad pirates as bad. The fact that he goes out of his way to show marines who are dissatisified with the "justice" of the WG, and introduced the rev army further enforces that oda is portraying the WG as bad, not the marines themselves.

So WG= villian
Bad pirates=villian
Marines=antagonist, but not a villian.
Good pirates=protagonist, but not hero
Rev army=Protagonist and hero
SH crew=Protagonist and heroic.

Aint nobody reading this one.

 

[Olorin]

One piece has been about right and wrong; and the sense of justice from the very beginning. Though a great storyline in itself, I believe the 'moral' angle of the story is highly illogical. We can all agree to the fact that the series considers the World Government evil just because it eradicated the Ancient Empire. I do not understand why it matters. Battles and takeovers of the kingdom is a normal thing in history. Why blame the world government just for winning a war?

if you read the manga One Piece carefully you will see that the WG is also guilty of: genocide, racism, slavery and human trafficking, segregation, violence against civilians, ...

it's not just about the void century and the ancient empire, we know almost nothing about that, if that was the only thinkg we knew about the WG (the info we have on void century) than we wouldn't know that the WG is a villain yet

- The marines, a faction of World Government, are responsible for maintaining peace in the world. They are able to fulfill their duty in many places. People look upto them.

the Marines are an army, all kinds of people in there, do you think every Nazi was evil and every allied soldier pure goodness?

- The pirates (barring a few) create chaos across the world as is evident by the reaction of the people.

and that is why Pirates like Luffy kick the asses of the pirates like that ... Croc, Arlong, Moria, ... no not every pirate is goody goody and they are NOT shown as pure and good either because of it

- Most of the crimes committed are by pirates/schichibukai or rogue marine soldiers (with an establishment as large as the world government, it is not possible to avoid these circumstances)

actually slavery on a large scale is preventable given that it's happening in the ranks of the WG as well, genocide is also preventable given that the order to commit it was given BY the world government

- There is a status difference b/s royal and normal families but that cannot be eradicates. This will always be there and we can see that throughout our world that we live in. Doesn't Luffy abuse his power by fighting with marines who are just fighting against pirates? If he is so concerned, why not convince them rather than fighting and killing thousands of innocent marine soldiers? He injured/killed thousands just to save Robin (who one can easily assume to be a big threat. I dare say that the Government is trying to protect the people)

income inequality will always exist ofc but does that mean that segregation based on income is ok? is it okay to banish the lower classes into the gray terminal and burn them? to shun them from society and prevent them from ever having a chance to pursue what they want?

Yes Luffy us a pirate and as of yet the WG is his enemy because they attacked his Nakama but hints were goven in the story that before the end Luffy will find out what the WG is and how corrupt it is and from that point onward he will fight the WG because of that

The Government has no right to eradicate an entire island and take Robin just because they knew something the WG didn't want them to know, Robin was innocent until the WG pushed her, that is what justifies Luffy protecting her even if he has to fight innocent soldiers who are just following orders, it happens all the time, if you fight a war against someone innocent soldiers who are following orders will get hurt

- Whats wrong with trying to kill all pirates and Ace (Marineford arc) or kill Robin (Ennies Lobby). I mention these two incidents since the series portray Marines to be the villians here.

why does the WG have the right to kill Ace just because he is Roger's son?
why does it have the right to kill Robin because she is a historian from Ohara?
and above all why do they have the right to kill ANYONE without a trial??!!

- The only thing where World Government goes too far is Tyrabbuntu. However, they are basically spoiled brats and do not actually interfere in the world's political matters. The political matters are taken care by Gorosei, Fleet Admiral etc. We can all say that Sengoku/Akainu want the world free of criminals. Whats wrong with that?

the Tenryubito heavily influence the WG, just read Fishman Island when Otohime left with one, they have influence over the highest ranked marines and they can pretty much do anything and kill anyone they want, and look how other nobles react to them (Goa Kingdom nobles), they pretty much lick their feet, and the nobles who lick the feet of the teryuubito have a lot of power as well and so on and on ...

- People mat not see Fishmen/Tontatta as equals but so do they not see cattle/chicken/fish as equals. Whats wrong with that? They are not humans.

yes because cattle/chicken/fish have human or near human intelligence and awareness :/ that is EXACTLY the same, if you can't get what the difference between that is I pity you

In brief, I am trying to say that the concept of One Piece is flawed because it portrays the WG is a villian and Luffy is the hero. However, I think Luffy is selfish only protecting his comrades and injuring thousand others abusing his power without understanding if other people are criminals or not. It can be argued that it is not possible to know about everyone but the argument will also be valid for WG then. Luffy just has another ideology, that is it.

it shows the WG as a villain because they in fact are teh villain and Luffy will in fact be the hero at the end, but neither are an absolute, Luffy isn't the perfect flawless hero and the WG aren't the biggest baddest most evil devil of a villain

PS: Hitler just had another ideology, that's it

PPS: this thread is an absolute failure

 

[NarutoBmx33]

Oh man, I don't think you've actually read One Piece. Way off.

I would explain why but the guys above me have already explained more than enough as to why your interpretation is wrong.

 

[ayush0735]

I can argue on several of these points but, more or less, I will just say what I said in my original post.

 

[SSS12]

I think it's too soon to make such comments. Let's see where One Piece is headed first. I believe down the line, 'good' and 'evil' and 'right and 'wrong' will clash, Oda has been setting that part up too. I really hope Oda can pull it off, because he is chewing a lot of stuff, let's just hope he can swallow it. You are right about a few things.

 

[Love Cook]

Just going to post this

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