[Discussion] Mihawk is not Yonko level

[Naruto D Luffy]

Obviously hes not

 

[Anduril]

All the admirals can fight with Shanks for a long period of time. Shanks is not Whitebeard, he isn't beating any admiral less than high diff. Especially Kizaru is seriously nerfed in the manga, he's by far the fastest character and has incredibly powerful long range and short range attacks. Aokiji can freeze a tsunami or part of the sea in an instant. And Akainu is Akainu

Well apart from the fact that Not one admiral not even Akainu noticed shanks until he had his sword against akainu's hand. I am pretty sure Akainu would have lost his right hand, if shanks was tinsy bit serious that day. (Knowing the kind of Haki beast shanks is.)

 

[Zeta42]

I'd say Mihawk is the strongest guy who isn't a Yonkiral. But pretty close.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

He beats any admiral one on one and it is not false.

Kizaru beats Mihawk with moderate difficulty if he's not trolling

 

[silmarill]

Admiral and Yonko level is roughly the same and Mihawk belongs in that power list for sure

 

[Apêx1]

Yonko captains are admiral level... there is no such thing as yonko level, this should be evident after seeing the WSM (WB) vs Akainu. WB left that battle with half his face melted off and a huge hole in torso, he even nearly collapsed at one point during the fight & Akainu could of easily killed him at that point instead of just staring at him. They're not in another league/tier than the admirals either.

Mihawk is admiral level by hype/plot.

They are on another level. WB was clearly on another league had he not been betrayed/old ass mofo. Doflamingo said he'd rather fight an admiral than Big Mom. Shanks stopped Akainu's punch with ease, had Akainu and BB back the fúck away, he clashed with WB. Kaido is supposed to be the strongest creature, and humans are creature's, so his power is clearly massive as well. Has massive hype. BB is likely the FV of OP if gets both his DF's mastered, so that speaks for itself as well. I don't see how you can deny this imo, it's clear Yonko are much more powerful than admirals by hype and portrayal.

 

[Bogard]

They are on another level. WB was clearly on another league had he not been betrayed/old ass mofo. Doflamingo said he'd rather fight an admiral than Big Mom. Shanks stopped Akainu's punch with ease, had Akainu and BB back the fúck away, he clashed with WB. Kaido is supposed to be the strongest creature, and humans are creature's, so his power is clearly massive as well. Has massive hype. BB is likely the FV of OP if gets both his DF's mastered, so that speaks for itself as well. I don't see how you can deny this imo, it's clear Yonko are much more powerful than admirals by hype and portrayal.

@Bold he never said that and the fact he had to call the celestial dragons to bring up CP0 and falsify the news of him resigning his Shichibukai title in order not to get attacked by admirals kind of prove he fears both. Later on during the rendez-vous point, Doffy slightly laughed at Law telling how how "scared he was" now that an admiral is there, implying it's the reaction Law expected him to have when meeting with him. And somewhere during the assault of dressrosa, he heavily implied that even with his entire family as a back-up(and the amount of one-hit hax devil fruit users he have like Sugar), he doesn't know if they even have a chance to defeat Fujitora. It's rather clear that through all this, Doflamingo knows his place when it comes to Admirals/Yonkous. They are above his level

@underline maybe but WB is WB, the strongest man in the world. He was on another league than the yonkous themselves. You can't use it as a standard yonkou argument when he was the strongest man alive. Not to mention i won't really say admirals performed bad against him. Even if he was injured, the fact all admirals got the upperhand in their duels against him shows that even healthy they are around his level, inferior for sure, but still around his level just like the yonkous if an injury was enough for the admirals to have an edge on him

The strongest creature title of Kaido seems to involve more concerning zoan fruit users. Considering admirals are logias, it shouldn't apply to them, and Shanks has no real hype really besides being roughly on Mihawk level. Stopping a magma punch aimed at a weaklink like Coby doesn't mean much considering to kill a fodder like Coby, Akainu only needs a fraction of his power, so i disagree with the yonkou stronger than admirals idea. The manga never portrayed it this way and Chinjao himself put them once again in a similar light during this arc. Those who really think yonkou are stronger than admirals are really setting up themselves to disappointment later

 

[Apêx1]

@Bold he never said that and the fact he had to call the celestial dragons to bring up CP0 and falsify the news of him resigning his Shichibukai title in order not to get attacked by admirals kind of prove he fears both. Later on during the rendez-vous point, Doffy slightly laughed at Law telling how how "scared he was" now that an admiral is there, implying it's the reaction Law expected him to have when meeting with him. And somewhere during the assault of dressrosa, he heavily implied that even with his entire family as a back-up(and the amount of one-hit hax devil fruit users he have like Sugar), he doesn't know if they even have a chance to defeat Fujitora. It's rather clear that through all this, Doflamingo knows his place when it comes to Admirals/Yonkous. They are above his level

@underline maybe but WB is WB, the strongest man in the world. He was on another league than the yonkous themselves. You can't use it as a standard yonkou argument when he was the strongest man alive. Not to mention i won't really say admirals performed bad against him. Even if he was injured, the fact all admirals got the upperhand in their duels against him shows that even healthy they are around his level, inferior for sure, but still around his level just like the yonkous if an injury was enough for the admirals to have an edge on him

The strongest creature title of Kaido seems to involve more concerning zoan fruit users. Considering admirals are logias, it shouldn't apply to them, and Shanks has no real hype really besides being roughly on Mihawk level. Stopping a magma punch aimed at a weaklink like Coby doesn't mean much considering to kill a fodder like Coby, Akainu only needs a fraction of his power, so i disagree with the yonkou stronger than admirals idea. The manga never portrayed it this way and Chinjao himself put them once again in a similar light during this arc. Those who really think yonkou are stronger than admirals are really setting up themselves to disappointment later

Must have been Kaidou then, I am rather confident he said he would rather fight one of the Admiral's then fight a Yonko. And yea, I agree on the rest.

I know that, but I was simply replying to Yo momma San who made claimed WB being heavily damaged by Akainu implied Yonkoo=Admiral when that's definitely not the case. So you misunderstood, I simply replied to the false analogy he made. It wasn't just the injury though, his age was a massive factor and I believe Marco emphasised that several times in the fight. A healthy/fit old WB is likely to take any of them down with less than high diff. And even then, WB still won after 1. Illness 2. Age 3. Damaged. Kizaru sneak attacked, Akainu attacked while WB was going retard and put a hole in his chest. So again, the analogy made before was completely fallacious. Any Yonko could've done the same and more to WB, who by Marco's standard should've dodged Squalo's attack and Kizaru's standard could've dodged his lasers. It's clear that WB was on the verge of death either way, any Yonko and even some Shichibukai could damage a seizure WB.

Yea, but that's simply conjecture, because humans are creatures as well, which makes it somewhat confusing. Shank's hype is alright, he still stopped a magma punch that had killing intent behind it, not to mention Akainu backed away (and was sweating) and BB left because of Shanks, whereas he seemed confident he could be dominating Marineford prior to Shanks' coming. Most likely a mythical Zoan for Kaidou though.
I disagree with Yonkou's being anything beneath Akainu as a Fleet Admiral. Kizaru who was shown as a parallel earlier stopped shooting Law's ship after Shank's first mate pointed a gun at him. WB's crew seemed pretty darn powerful with Jozu and Marco, and those two are still young and could keep up with admirals (at least Marco could rather extensively). I still wouldn't see Marco anywhere near Yonko level in my opinion, though that's just me. It's probably Fleet Admirals and Garp=Yonko, whereas admirals lose to Yonko. Why would Sengoku have feared a fight between Shanks and Kaidou so much? Akoji, Kizaru and Sengoku could've easily put a stop to them had they been equals, but it didn't seem to be the case. They clearly couldn't handle Shanks and a sick WB, the difference seems massive to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[Anduril]

Must have been Kaidou then, I am rather confident he said he would rather fight one of the Yonko's then fight an admiral. And yea, I agree on the rest.

I know that, but I was simply replying to Yo momma San who made claimed WB being heavily damaged by Akainu implied Yonkoo=Admiral when that's definitely not the case. So you misunderstood, I simply replied to the false analogy he made. It wasn't just the injury though, his age was a massive factor and I believe Marco emphasised that several times in the fight. A healthy/fit old WB is likely to take any of them down with less than high diff. And even then, WB still won after 1. Illness 2. Age 3. Damaged. Kizaru sneak attacked, Akainu attacked while WB was going retard and put a hole in his chest. So again, the analogy made before was completely fallacious. Any Yonko could've done the same and more to WB, who by Marco's standard should've dodged Squalo's attack and Kizaru's standard could've dodged his lasers. It's clear that WB was on the verge of death either way, any Yonko and even some Shichibukai could damage a seizure WB.

Yea, but that's simply conjecture, because humans are creatures as well, which makes it somewhat confusing. Shank's hype is alright, he still stopped a magma punch that had killing intent behind it, not to mention Akainu backed away (and was sweating) and BB left because of Shanks, whereas he seemed confident he could be dominating Marineford prior to Shanks' coming. Most likely a mythical Zoan for Kaidou though.
I disagree with Yonkou's being anything beneath Akainu as a Fleet Admiral. Kizaru who was shown as a parallel earlier stopped shooting Law's ship after Shank's first mate pointed a gun at him. WB's crew seemed pretty darn powerful with Jozu and Marco, and those two are still young and could keep up with admirals (at least Marco could rather extensively). I still wouldn't see Marco anywhere near Yonko level in my opinion, though that's just me. It's probably Fleet Admirals and Garp=Yonko, whereas admirals lose to Yonko. Why would Sengoku have feared a fight between Shanks and Kaidou so much? Akoji, Kizaru and Sengoku could've easily put a stop to them had they been equals, but it didn't seem to be the case. They clearly couldn't handle Shanks and a sick WB, the difference seems massive to me, but I could be wrong.

You might want to change the highlighted part around. But I agree that the yonkou are a level above the admirals.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

So Garp, Sengoku, post time skip Akainu, Kong, Roger, Silvers aren't Yonko level.

Mihawk is best swordsman in the world. The guy fought equal with Yonko. Wanted to fight with strongest man in the world.

In order to be a Yonko you need:
- To be interested in that title, but Mihawk never showed interest, he just want to sit in his casstle.
- To have a crew, otherwise how would he alone control all these islands, and Mihawk don't have crew.

 

[Apêx1]

You might want to change the highlighted part around. But I agree that the yonkou are a level above the admirals.

Oh damn, my bad. And yea, I can't see it in any other way.

So Garp, Sengoku, post time skip Akainu, Kong, Roger, Silvers aren't Yonko level.

Mihawk is best swordsman in the world. The guy fought equal with Yonko. Wanted to fight with strongest man in the world.

In order to be a Yonko you need:
- To be interested in that title, but Mihawk never showed interest, he just want to sit in his casstle.
- To have a crew, otherwise how would he alone control all these islands, and Mihawk don't have crew.

We don't know if Mihawk fought Yonko Shanks and how much Shanks has improved since then, saying they are still equals isn't assertable at this point.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

They are on another level. WB was clearly on another league had he not been betrayed/old ass mofo. Doflamingo said he'd rather fight an admiral than Big Mom. Shanks stopped Akainu's punch with ease, had Akainu and BB back the fúck away, he clashed with WB. Kaido is supposed to be the strongest creature, and humans are creature's, so his power is clearly massive as well. Has massive hype. BB is likely the FV of OP if gets both his DF's mastered, so that speaks for itself as well. I don't see how you can deny this imo, it's clear Yonko are much more powerful than admirals by hype and portrayal.

Fleet Admiral (level above admiral) is same as Yonko level.
Admiral level is same as First mate of Yonko crew (level below Yonko).

Pre timeskip Akainu was already a Yonko level or relative close to one. Aokiji as well, both of them were candidates for FA.
Kizaru is probably little lower than them, and Fujitora would come after that.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

We don't know if Mihawk fought Yonko Shanks and how much Shanks has improved since then, saying they are still equals isn't assertable at this point.

There is nothing suggesting that either of them lost, on the contrary there is more reason to believe that Shanks lost some of their battles than Mihawk loosing. Shanks disappeared for one whole year. Why? We still wait for answear but there is high possibility that he was ashamed because of his lost. In which Mihawk earned title Best Swordsman.

After that Shanks lost an arm. So, Shanks without an arm getting so much stronger and Mihawk getting any less stronger than that is unlikely.

 

[Anduril]

Fleet Admiral (level above admiral) is same as Yonko level.
Admiral level is same as First mate of Yonko crew (level below Yonko).

I agree with the first part but I am not sure of their first mate being Admiral level. I consider the First mate a little below admiral level.

And Mihawk is certainly admiral level. If he had a crew like shanks or WB's he would be the most notorious pirate on the seas.

 

[Apêx1]

Fleet Admiral (level above admiral) is same as Yonko level.
Admiral level is same as First mate of Yonko crew (level below Yonko).

Pre timeskip Akainu was already a Yonko level or relative close to one. Aokiji as well, both of them were candidates for FA.
Kizaru is probably little lower than them, and Fujitora would come after that.

Yes, Akainu is probably close or as strong as Shanks. Sengoku is the same, etc.
Marco, Jozu, Vista and Beckman all seemed around Admiral level. So not necessarily first mate, unless WB is an exception. Not sure about Kaido and Big Mom, but I doubt Yonoko's power differs vastly, there would be no stability if it where so.

Pre-Time skip Akainu and Aokiji are unlikely to be Yonko level, though Post-time skip I would agree, since he's a Fleet Admiral at that point. I don't really see how Kizaru is weaker, he was a parallel to the two of them.

There is nothing suggesting that either of them lost, on the contrary there is more reason to believe that Shanks lost some of their battles than Mihawk loosing. Shanks disappeared for one whole year. Why? We still wait for answear but there is high possibility that he was ashamed because of his lost. In which Mihawk earned title Best Swordsman.

After that Shanks lost an arm. So, Shanks without an arm getting so much stronger and Mihawk getting any less stronger than that is unlikely.

This is all baseless conjecture though. Nothing suggests which is stronger, and Mihawk being a better swordsman doesn't mean Shanks is a weaker all-round fighter. His Haki is most definitely stronger, so it may or may not make up for it. The extent of his abilities is unknown, but at the very least he has the speed to keep up with Mihawk and the strength to stalemate WB. I don't believe Shanks is the type to be ashamed, wasn't he the one to motivate Luffy's "never back down" ideals?

Haki is the massive factor nevertheless. If Shanks has a more powerful Haki and trained more than Mihawk, than I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to compete.

I agree with the first part but I am not sure of their first mate being Admiral level. I consider the First mate a little below admiral level.

And Mihawk is certainly Yonkou level. If he had a crew like shanks or WB's he would be the most notorious pirate on the seas.

Marco is definitely admiral level, was shown to be about Kizaru's equal. Akainu couldn't hurt him with his magma, only person that did shit to his Phoenix form is Garp, and that's nothing bad since he was still conscious. Ben Beckman seemed to slightly scare Kizaru, Marco seemed on par with Kizaru, Vista was keeping up with Mihawk decently, Jozu did well and stopped Mihawk's massive slash. Aokiji was shown on par with Jozu, and took a decent bleed from Jozu's smash. He only froze a distracted Jozu, he couldn't do that priorly.

Possibly so, but again, that's conjecture.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

I agree with the first part but I am not sure of their first mate being Admiral level. I consider the First mate a little below admiral level.

Well, Marco was able to fight equally with Kizaru. I rank Kizaru above Fujitora, so I would say that Marco could beat at least one admiral, which mean that he is on that level. Beckman attacked Kizaru and Kizaru was like "Oh, no", Kizaru could be trolling, but I think this also would make Beckman admiral level, considering that I see other admirals being weaker.
That's 2/5, I think portrayal sure say that 1st Mates are around Admiral level.

 

[Apêx1]

Well, Marco was able to fight equally with Kizaru. I rank Kizaru above Fujitora, so I would say that Marco could beat at least one admiral, which mean that he is on that level. Beckman attacked Kizaru and Kizaru was like "Oh, no", Kizaru could be trolling, but I think this also would make Beckman admiral level, considering that I see other admirals being weaker.
That's 2/5, I think portrayal sure say that 1st Mates are around Admiral level.

Jozu as well man, and him and Marco aren't even first mates, just commanders. Pretty OP, not to mention Vista keeping up with Mihawk is a good feat no matter how you look at it, would've been high diff for Mihawk but still..

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Yes, Akainu is probably close or as strong as Shanks. Sengoku is the same, etc.
Marco, Jozu, Vista and Beckman all seemed around Admiral level. So not necessarily first mate, unless WB is an exception. Not sure about Kaido and Big Mom, but I doubt Yonoko's power differs vastly, there would be no stability if it where so.

I don't really agree wtih Jozu and Vista being admirals, maybe close but still not on that level.

Pre-Time skip Akainu and Aokiji are unlikely to be Yonko level, though Post-time skip I would agree, since he's a Fleet Admiral at that point. I don't really see how Kizaru is weaker, he was a parallel to the two of them.

Akainu already pushed WB to mid-high diff. That's same guy who holds title of the strongest. IMO Shanks would come as second and than Big Mom or Kaido. Shanks would push WB to high diff, so I see pre time-skip Akainu as little below Shanks in power but around as strong as BM and Kaido.

Both Aokiji and Kizaru don't seems to be so serious at MF. Aokiji was candidate to FA so I believe he was already a Yonko level. Kizaru on the other hand wasn't so I believe he was weaker than them. Either way I would rank Yonkos + Admirals something like this:

WB > Shanks > Akainu >/= BM/Kaido >/= Aokiji > Kizaru

This is all baseless conjecture though. Nothing suggests which is stronger, and Mihawk being a better swordsman doesn't mean Shanks is a weaker all-round fighter. His Haki is most definitely stronger, so it may or may not make up for it. The extent of his abilities is unknown, but at the very least he has the speed to keep up with Mihawk and the strength to stalemate WB. I don't believe Shanks is the type to be ashamed, wasn't he the one to motivate Luffy's "never back down" ideals?

We never saw Mihawk using haki, but chances of his not having it are low. Never back down was just before he left Luffy's town but he got there 1 year before, many things can happen in meantime.

Haki is the massive factor nevertheless. If Shanks has a more powerful Haki and trained more than Mihawk, than I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to compete.

Just by loosing an arm Shanks was put in disadvantage. Assuming that they were equals before that, Shanks after loss of an arm, got weaker, that would make him weaker than Mihawk.

So from that point, Shanks needed to get a lot more stronger and Mihawk to get just little stronger or not even got stronger for Shanks to surprise him.

 

[ultraChalk]

Mihawk is at the level of a captain holding the Yonko title.

He just isn't a pirate so he is not considered a Yonko. And he is already holding a title as war lord so he can't be both.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Jozu as well man, and him and Marco aren't even first mates, just commanders. Pretty OP, not to mention Vista keeping up with Mihawk is a good feat no matter how you look at it, would've been high diff for Mihawk but still..

Marco is First Mate of WB pirates.