Sasuke & Senjutsu

[Shinato]

As Kabuto stated, the natural ability of Jyugo's clan is to absorb Senjutsu from the world even while they're moving around. This is the reason Juugo and his clan members go berserk from time to time, its the fact that they have to release their Senjutsu. This means that those who contain this DNA within their bodies should carry this ability as well, in the same manner as those who posses Hashirama's DNA should be able to perform Mokuton. Because of Sasuke's Curse Mark in Part 1 and early Part 2, he mastered how to manipulate Senjutsu, yet he never knew how to gather it on his own. All in all, the Curse Mark works like a gather and storage device for Senjutsu. This was Orochimaru's try to obtain Sage Mode. To use the Curse Seal to gather and contain Senjutsu, created from Juugo's DNA. Basically what this DNA does is to remove the requirement of having to gather Senjutsu to use for Sage Mode naturally. Now, during Taka's fight with Killer Bee, Sasuke lost most of his body from Killer Bee's Lariat. What was destroyed was replaced with Juugo's DNA, body and mass. Along with Kurama's words about Sasuke perhaps being on the same level as "Old Mang Rikudou" aka Hagoromo. We know that Hagoromo was able to use Senjutsu, while having a great control over his visual jutsus (Rinnegan) along with being the host of the Bijuu's. We know that Sasuke has visual abilities that rivals that of Hagoromo, to the point where even Hagoromo is surprised over Sasuke's abilities. From the latest chapter, we saw that Sasuke was able to use all of the Bijuu's chakra without really becoming their Jin. This gives Sasuke 2/3 parts of Hagoromo's power, the last being Senjutsu. So the main point of this idea is this: Sasuke can fully control Senjutsu if he already has it, and with Juugo's DNA he should naturally be creating Senjutsu. This means that by all logic, Sasuke should have the ability to use and create Senjutsu at will. This however, doesn't give him a perfect Sage Mode like Naruto. It just gives him the ability to mold Senjutsu with his own jutsu. Meaning that even Naruto's Truth-Seeker Balls cannot neglect Sasuke's jutsus. This may also explain why Naruto's Truth-Seeker Balls were destroyed along with Sasuke's Susano'o arrows instead of just neglecting them like they should have done. (Either that or Naruto doesn't possess that power at all.) This also fits with Kurama's statement that Sasuke is on pair with Hagoromo in several ways. He may not have perfect Senjutsu to the same level as Naruto or Hagoromo, but he certainly have the ability to use it and should logically create it naturally. Edit: After some replies, I was told and noticed that Naruto's TSB's weren't destroyed when they clashed with the arrows. However, they didn't do anything but block against the arrows. They didn't neglect them like they should have done so my theory on that is still there. Either Sasuke has Senjutsu or Naruto doesn't have that ability.

 

[Flakez]

Naruto still has his 3 truth seeking orbs.

 

[Shinato]

Naruto still has his 3 truth seeking orbs.

I seemed to have missed that. Anyways, they only blocked the arrows, not removed them like they should have done.

 

[iFlowMotion]

Good thread

Disturbing sig though :erm:

 

[Shinato]

Good thread

Disturbing sig though :erm:

Funny thing, we agree on 2 things! (By that I mean, I see your sig in the exact same as you just describe mine! Yay!)

 

[Sound]

Truth Seeker Balls were never destroyed. Naruto made his Gudodamas detonate Sasuke's arrows.

Spoiler

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[Clouds]

I enjoyed reading this and it's quite logical.

PS : Unique sig ._.

 

[Rohan]

That Itachi though. Lol

 

[Shinato]

Truth Seeker Balls were never destroyed. Naruto made his Gudodamas detonate and negate Sasuke's arrows.

Spoiler

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Yeah, I missed that and I did comment on that. (I'll edit the original post now.) As I said in my reply, they should have neglected the arrows completely but as they didn't then there is still only two possible explanations. One is that Sasuke possesses Senjutsu or that Naruto doesn't have the ability to neglect Chakra like Obito and Madara.

 

[Sound]

Yeah, I missed that and I did comment on that. (I'll edit the original post now.) As I said in my reply, they should have neglected the arrows completely but as they didn't then there is still only two possible explanations. One is that Sasuke possesses Senjutsu or that Naruto doesn't have the ability to neglect Chakra like Obito and Madara.

Naruto has the ability to negate ninjutsu. All JJ-Pseudo JJ that are conscious have the ability to use Omnyodon.
It was commented that he has the same Yin-Yang as Kaguya. Because Sasuke has the Sage's chakra he can't just negate arrows on contact but he can disintegrate them by making his TSB detonate/explode like Obito could.

You can notice at the page where Susanoo arrows clash with TSB there is an explosion.
If the arrows could effect his TSB they would simply pierce through them without an explosion.

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[Kαmi]

I don't think Naruto has Omyoudon, he never learned Rikudou jutsus like Obito and Madara did, he just uses the TSBs for other purposes and to counter for the most part IMO. I do agree that Sasuke has the ability to manipulate senjutsu though. He was learning how to do it without knowing it when it came to use his curse mark and he was said that he mastered his Curse Mark. It's just as you said, it's not as great as SM but he can use it nonetheless.

 

[Waltz]

Agreed for the most part and with what 'Kami' said.

Also, since Sasuke was given

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gift the effect to be brought about would be

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. ​

 

[iFlowMotion]

Funny thing, we agree on 2 things! (By that I mean, I see your sig in the exact same as you just describe mine! Yay!)

LoL Touche =)

 

[Shinato]

Naruto has the ability to negate ninjutsu. All JJ-Pseudo JJ that are conscious have the ability to use Omnyodon.
It was commented that he has the same Yin-Yang as Kaguya. Because Sasuke has the Sage's chakra he can't just negate arrows on contact but he can disintegrate them by making his TSB detonate/explode like Obito could.

You can notice at the page where Susanoo arrows clash with TSB there is an explosion.
If the arrows could effect his TSB they would simply pierce through them without an explosion.

Spoiler

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Naruto also assumed that Tobirama was copying Minato, not the other way around. He isn't a smart shinobi, so taking his words when it comes to logical or scientific questions is equal to asking Akamaru. When Sasuke's arrows hit something during his fight with Danzo, a explosion was formed from the impact. The same effect would happen if they hit Naruto's TSB's if the only blocked them. Omnyodon is the ability to neglect Ninjutsu. Truth-Seeker Balls all contain all of the Nature Releases as well as Yin/Yan release. Yet only Obito was able to neglect Edo Tensei when he had focused the power.

That means that it isn't a natural trait of Balls, beyond that a explosion happened on impact. If the TSB's exploded, the explosion would be a whole lot bigger than that. (+ It would have been a completely round explosion.) Also, we know that Senjutsu removes the ability of Omnyodon from the balls, something shown against Obito. yet Obito was still able to block Senjutsu infused attacks so, no, Sasuke's arrows wouldn't just pierce it, they would hit the balls like hitting a wall.

 

[Sound]

Naruto also assumed that Tobirama was copying Minato, not the other way around. He isn't a smart shinobi, so taking his words when it comes to logical or scientific questions is equal to asking Akamaru. When Sasuke's arrows hit something during his fight with Danzo, a explosion was formed from the impact. The same effect would happen if they hit Naruto's TSB's if the only blocked them. Omnyodon is the ability to neglect Ninjutsu. Truth-Seeker Balls all contain all of the Nature Releases as well as Yin/Yan release. Yet only Obito was able to neglect Edo Tensei when he had focused the power.

That means that it isn't a natural trait of Balls, beyond that a explosion happened on impact. If the TSB's exploded, the explosion would be a whole lot bigger than that. (+ It would have been a completely round explosion.) Also, we know that Senjutsu removes the ability of Omnyodon from the balls, something shown against Obito. yet Obito was still able to block Senjutsu infused attacks so, no, Sasuke's arrows wouldn't just pierce it, they would hit the balls like hitting a wall.

Naruto can sense chakra. He didn't knew that Tobirama invented FTG that doesn't mean that he isn't able to differentiate between his TSB. Second, Sasuke who with the Rinnegan could see Kaguya's chakra and analyse that her chakra was on a whole other level to Madara, approved Naruto. This [

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] is much different from this [

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]

Truth Seeker Balls don't innately have Omnyodon. It is applied to it when the host is conscious. Obito who had lost his consciousness used TSB on Hiruzen and he regenerated. When he regained his consciousness Minato's arm didn't regenerate from his black staff. Senjutsu doesn't remove the ability, Omnyodon isn't able to negate nature energy or Rikodou's chakra. So yes Naruto has Omnydon and can negate ninjutsu.​

 

[Umari Senju]

I don't think Naruto has Omyoudon, he never learned Rikudou jutsus like Obito and Madara did, he just uses the TSBs for other purposes and to counter for the most part IMO. I do agree that Sasuke has the ability to manipulate senjutsu though. He was learning how to do it without knowing it when it came to use his curse mark and he was said that he mastered his Curse Mark. It's just as you said, it's not as great as SM but he can use it nonetheless.

Wait you don't think Naruto has Omyoudon? I know Zetzu said he has Gudoudama behind him when he was fighting Kaguya with Taju Kage Bushin. Aren't Omyoudon and Gudoudama the same thing? I am somewhat confused by both names.

 

[KCMNaruto]

yes Sasuke is at Post Jin Yin Yang Hagoromo level, so is Naruto.

1. Sasuke can not mold Sage chakra because he can not absorb nature energy from outside to mold with his own chakra.

2. Sasuke can utilise and use Sage chakra which was already transffered to him for use.

3. JJ Hagoromo stomps Naruto/Sasuke

 

[so12p]

The whole Jugo suddenly sage chakra and suckske can resonate with it thing was PnJ for suckske to be able to contribute to the battle when he otherwise would have added no value.

 

[Mr Hiru]

As Kabuto stated, the natural ability of Jyugo's clan is to absorb Senjutsu from the world even while they're moving around. This is the reason Juugo and his clan members go berserk from time to time, its the fact that they have to release their Senjutsu. This means that those who contain this DNA within their bodies should carry this ability as well, in the same manner as those who posses Hashirama's DNA should be able to perform Mokuton. Because of Sasuke's Curse Mark in Part 1 and early Part 2, he mastered how to manipulate Senjutsu, yet he never knew how to gather it on his own. All in all, the Curse Mark works like a gather and storage device for Senjutsu. This was Orochimaru's try to obtain Sage Mode. To use the Curse Seal to gather and contain Senjutsu, created from Juugo's DNA. Basically what this DNA does is to remove the requirement of having to gather Senjutsu to use for Sage Mode naturally. Now, during Taka's fight with Killer Bee, Sasuke lost most of his body from Killer Bee's Lariat. What was destroyed was replaced with Juugo's DNA, body and mass. Along with Kurama's words about Sasuke perhaps being on the same level as "Old Mang Rikudou" aka Hagoromo. We know that Hagoromo was able to use Senjutsu, while having a great control over his visual jutsus (Rinnegan) along with being the host of the Bijuu's. We know that Sasuke has visual abilities that rivals that of Hagoromo, to the point where even Hagoromo is surprised over Sasuke's abilities. From the latest chapter, we saw that Sasuke was able to use all of the Bijuu's chakra without really becoming their Jin. This gives Sasuke 2/3 parts of Hagoromo's power, the last being Senjutsu. So the main point of this idea is this: Sasuke can fully control Senjutsu if he already has it, and with Juugo's DNA he should naturally be creating Senjutsu. This means that by all logic, Sasuke should have the ability to use and create Senjutsu at will. This however, doesn't give him a perfect Sage Mode like Naruto. It just gives him the ability to mold Senjutsu with his own jutsu. Meaning that even Naruto's Truth-Seeker Balls cannot neglect Sasuke's jutsus. This may also explain why Naruto's Truth-Seeker Balls were destroyed along with Sasuke's Susano'o arrows instead of just neglecting them like they should have done. (Either that or Naruto doesn't possess that power at all.) This also fits with Kurama's statement that Sasuke is on pair with Hagoromo in several ways. He may not have perfect Senjutsu to the same level as Naruto or Hagoromo, but he certainly have the ability to use it and should logically create it naturally. Edit: After some replies, I was told and noticed that Naruto's TSB's weren't destroyed when they clashed with the arrows. However, they didn't do anything but block against the arrows. They didn't neglect them like they should have done so my theory on that is still there. Either Sasuke has Senjutsu or Naruto doesn't have that ability.

The pillar of your theory rests over the fact that Sasuke has Juugo's flesh in his body, yes?

There is a way to counter-argument this fact... which is, a question.

Why did Sasuke have the need of use Juugo to awake the Senjutsu Susano'o, if he had Juugo's Flesh already?

...it sounds kind of fishy, but my guess is that Sasuke shizen draining ability is useless compared to Naruto's ability. If Sasuke could do it just with his share of Juugo's flesh, then Sasuke wouldn't have the need of Juugo to create the Senjutsu Susano'o.

But, facts speaks about Sasuke's 'current' senjutsu ability correlated to the Moon Seal (He removed Tobirama's rods with his bare hands but Moon seal was shown, and when he created the black chidori, moon seal was shown again...). So his Senjutsu ability was trashed away when he lost the seal.