[VS] Killer Bee vs EMS Sasuke

[ARGUS]

So B enters V2, and Sasuke supposedly won't blitz before he goes Bijuu Mode or kill him while he's inside the tentacle?

and how exactly is sasuke blitzing cloaked bee?

 

[Rιver]

and how exactly is sasuke blitzing cloaked bee?

Are you really asking how he's blitzing B when he kept up with Madara and Obito?

 

[Kamui Sama]

Bee can enter full BM quite fast too (probably has been covered already somewhere deep in this thread Lol)

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[Rιver]

It doesn't matter if B can turn Bijuu Mode fast. He won't be creating a Bijuu Dama right off the bat. Sasuke will be charging with a slash that cuts him apart and leaves him burning, with his legged Susano'O. There's no way he'll prevent that.

 

[ARGUS]

Are you really asking how he's blitzing B when he kept up with Madara and Obito?

doesnt mean that hes blitzing him,
sasukes shunshin is no where near enough to blitz bee,

 

[Rιver]

doesnt mean that hes blitzing him,
sasukes shunshin is no where near enough to blitz bee,

So when he kept up with BSM Naruto, was probably as fast as him, reacted to and almost hit Obito, stabbed Madara...

He's not fast enough to take out B?

 

[ARGUS]

So when he kept up with BSM Naruto, was probably as fast as him, reacted to and almost hit Obito, stabbed Madara...

He's not fast enough to take out B?

Lol No, hes no where near fast enough to ''blitz'' bee thats absurd,
his reflexes are superior. but his speed isnt, they are 2 different things,
and Lol you mean the BSM naruto that didnt even use his shunshin Lol
naruto in BSM is tiers above sasuke in terms of speed, their reflexes are comparable, not speed

 

[Rιver]

Lol No, hes no where near fast enough to ''blitz'' bee thats absurd,
his reflexes are superior. but his speed isnt, they are 2 different things,
and Lol you mean the BSM naruto that didnt even use his shunshin Lol
naruto in BSM is tiers above sasuke in terms of speed, their reflexes are comparable, not speed

Are you telling me that EMS Sasuke hadn't become faster in the war arc?

 

[Apêx1]

Except nothing in the manga ever states that. That's just an explanation you came up with that you believe is logical, but the manga shows otherwise. Every. Single. Time. No exceptions. But the bold is possible. Regardless, B can still cut off the tentacle, he'll be inside, safe from the flame, then he comes out in V2, gets out of the encampment of flame he was trapped in, and then reenters Bijuu Mode, which blows any flame off his body, assuming that he can't just jump over the encampment of flame he's stuck in, and nothing implies that he can't.

-Enton Kagutsuchi=/=Amaterasu, so why you are mentioning it when I'm talking about Amaterasu?

-Nothing suggest Itachi used Amaterasu on the flame? Really now? The fireball is the thing that ignited, thus that is what he used Amaterasu on.


Irrelevant. According to your logic, him continuously using Amaterasu should result in more flame, thus a bigger fireball, except Itachi did that and that isn't what happened.

No, it's like this for every jutsu ever. More chakra is more quantity. Don't see why you are denying it. Sasuke equaled COFRS in chakra with his right eye, no reason he can't expel a similar amount of chakra with his left eye. The user creates Amateratsu as large as what he chooses, if it is what you say it is then Itachi would've covered the entire Cereberus with Amateratsu here [

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], but that's clearly not what happened. Sasuke chooses how much chakra he uses and he does what he did against the Juubi, thus Hachibi dies.

I never said that, I said nothing suggests Amateratsu was used continuously like Sasuke did here [

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], he simply closed his eye because Amateratsu follows what the user is gazing at, thus it fell to the floor. Nothing whatsoever indicates he did what Sasuke did in terms of continuously spawning, let alone him being able to do that to Sasuke's extent.

He didn't do it, and he didn't exert the chakra of a COFRS nor would he have any reason to if he was trying to kill Sasuke, so point is moot.

Where did the bold come from? The amount of flame shown is the amount of flame that will hit. Nothing implies otherwise.

Since when did elemental amplification just an addition of chakra amount inside the jutsu? That's what I was asking.

No, that's not true. The Enton's flames are based on how concentrated it is, given that the Raikage would've burned to a crisp here [

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]. It was barely larger than Ay's upper body yet covered the entire Samurai. Clearly it increased in size massively after contact. Not to mention that the Enton flames that covered the FRS after it was eaten where no where near the size of the Juubi from bottom to top, so my point stands. Amateratsu spreads after, it isn't a constant speed from the point is is initiated.

Logically speaking, Amateratsu eating through a doton wouldn't give it more chakra. Futon is no different, Amateratsu/Enton gain no extra chakra from the Futon because it eats away at the very chakra it is composed of, and eating chakra is not absorbing chakra. Thus I said it doubled the Enton in size because of the amount of wind present from the Chakra exerted for the wind itself. It may be less, it may be more, either way it would still be far larger than the Hachibi had it been a 10x increase, which is an unlikely case since Wind and Fire don't work like that.

Yes, it does. Those aren't hill level Mountains, those are Mountains. The Mountains are much farther back than the trees are, thus the Mountains look much smaller than they actually are.

No, it's clear the mountains I showed weren't far from the trees, yet weren't much larger. Mountains aren't constant sizes in NV, so my point stands that these are large hills. Then again, TBB has no feat to say it is extremely fast to hit a constantly moving hawk at the end of the day.

It shows that leaving marks that indicate speed means nothing when we have nothing else or any character to compare it to, or any statements at all. Sasori's IS broke the Sound Barrier, Juubito doesn't do that when he moves, is Juubito slower? Nope. Same principle here. Showing me that the hawk moves fast doesn't cut it, it has to be fast enough, and nothing implies that it is.


It doesn't stand solely due to perspective.

Doesn't matter, I already told you it was for emphasis and that it would be retarded for every character flying to have a supersonic shockwave behind him. At the end of the day, it's still a feat, and it still portrays it as being fast despite what you say about it not being a feat. It had the trail marks, it dodged Danzo's Futon with utmost ease and showed agility while doing so since it went downwards against a dead end. TBB has nothing indicating it will hit it when it is 30 meters away, from which Minato can form several hand seals and stretch his hands in comfort.

-That isn't free fall. Hashirama jumped from a rock toward the ground, so he was moving at an increasing speed. If he had jumped in the air, then had begun to fall back down, then it'd be free fall. And Hashirama is fast.

-Hashirama summoning Rashomon before Bijuu Dama hit only means that Hashirama is fast, which is something that has been established, so I don't know why you keep using character reactions as evidence that something is slow. He already noted that it reached the other shore and we saw it do that in a few seconds, so no, its fast, and that's a fact.

@bold: It was still spinning though, and when not influenced by any outside sources, Bijuu Dama>FRS and YM when it comes to speed based on feats, so no.

The bird evading Bijuu Dama just because its moving non stop is the illogical assertion here. Non stop moving only makes it harder to aim, if the bird is too slow, its most likely that he'll get hit, unless B is a terrible shot.

That's no justification for the TBB's speed which you exaggerated. Hashirama was in the air jumping from rock to rock [

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], and by the time TBB was being prepped, Hashirama was still on the move to the sea. After that, we see Hashirama after the TBB was fired, above the Kyuubi itself [

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]. That's still a partial free fall as he wasn't jumping downwards, his body was in position of a normal jump. Either way, that's still large air resistance from that height, landing, summoning jutsu, all before TBB crossed a few meters. It's no feat whatsoever. Hashirama's shunshin is fast, nothing indicates he propelled chakra from his feat while jumping from rock to rock above the Kyuubi. It's not character reactions, it's you making Hashirama seem like his bodily position was somehow in the stance for downwards movement, even though you can't travel at accelerated speeds in such a stance.

Based on what?

No, the bird isn't this slow poke you are making him seem. Sasuke would have had no reason to use it as a means of travelling had he been able to jog faster than it.. Lol Look, the bird is high, it's moving in an unorthodox manner, and Sasuke is able to aim extremely easily due to his sharingan, not to mention he can take control over it and give it his Sharingan's reaction speed's since he's controlling it. It's movement speed is perfectly fine, no reason to assume Bee can aim at something he can't predict's movements, unless he has a sharingan I don't know of.

Fine, ignore the Bijuu Dama hitting each other part.
Where is the evidence for the bold? The energy decreasing the farther you get away doesn't translate to Sasuke being that far away means he'll only take damage equal to a normal Ninjutsu attack. Completely unsubstantiated.

It was figuratively speaking. Still, exponential decay is part of all explosives, energy doesn't increase the further you go from the origin, it decays exponentially due to it requiring more energy to fill a greater area every second. Nukes are considered inefficient because they are overly powerful in the epicentre and much weaker around the rest of the explosion (not weak but you get the point). Same applies here, Energy decay occurs and the end of the TBB becomes nothing special, definitely not a Kirin level attack. Either way, Bee shooting a TBB when Sasuke is far higher in the air, and the fact that Sasuke is controlling the Hawk's actions with genjutsu all suggests that Sasuke is rather far away from the explosion, not to mention he can also jump with his Legged Susano to further get away. Sasuke losing is nothing but a bad joke, as we've seen how a spread out TBB damages and Suigetsu survived despite his chakra making complete contact with the TBB that was passing through him, and it not getting eradicated (unless you suggest he has no chakra), not to mention that the one he used against Taka was a forced TBB explosion in a single direction, which Karin was capable of evading, TBB's regular explosion is no different as both would be considered rapid releases of the mass of kinetic energy within the TBB.

The bird dies and then Sasuke survives, then he dies to the second Bijuu Dama as he won't be in flight. B not noticing he's alive is completely ridiculous. As if he won't see a Susanoo in the air, hell, he'll even see Sasuke falling to the ground once his transportation is obliterated. B can coil up to protect himself from the brunt of the blast, so he'll survive, and no, there won't be any kind of massive smoke/debris cloud hiding B.

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A second after Kurama's Bijuu Dama blew up, everything cleared and Madara and Hashirama could see each other. So B sees his arrow coming, uses Bijuu Dama, plows through it and kills Sasuke.

What? You said he fires it into the ground. How is he seeing him lmao? His entire LoS is blocked and Susano is either in the middle of everything or behind it. Bee in no way sees anything transpire.


1. Wind Cast Net affects a smaller Surface Area than FRS.

2. He was in Base when he got cut, so no, it doesn't need to faster than FRS.

3. Sasori's IS needs massive speed to break the Sound Barrier, is that enough evidence that compared to pretty much every mid-top tier that its fast? No. You can't tell what happened in-between those chapters so using it as a means of TBB having no debris production when it logically should doesn't hold. Not to mention he's within the explosion itself so he clearly can't see anything.

Implying Bijuu Dama is as fast, or that Bee can react to it. Nope.

A speed feat for Sasuke since he didn't see it coming yet still evaded it, meaning if he had saw it coming he would have evaded it with no damage. In what world does landing a sneak attack=speed feat? Lol.


Which means he dodged it. The Mask was right behind him, it fired at him, but he was shown to be fine, so he didn't get hit despite being fired at from point blank range. That's not fast. Where was Atsugai noted to be very fast anyway?


Which means Pain is fast, something that we've already seen. Doesn't change the fact that FRS is the fastest Fuuton.

Good point

No, he dodged no Futon, he simply went behind the mask itself which is easily achievable by going horizontally. Zexion

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Doesn't matter, turning a 180 and throwing someone away before it crosses a few feat when the same person can't make a single seal before Jiraiya's SM kick which is even fruther from where the FRS was in terms of it and Human path isn't impressive. Inb4 Jiraiya is fast. FRS's speed feats are lacking heavily, that Pain is fast, Deva and Ashura are fast. They clearly differ in speed given Animal path has no decent speed and required external help to escape the FRS, so that argument doesn't stand.

I never stated that FRS was the tip of the iceburg when it came to speed, I just said its faster than any other Fuuton out there by feats, and nothing you've posted disproves that, while everything in the manga proves that right. You are the one who said Fuuton shouldn't be undermined since they are extremely fast, so you saying FRS isn't fast, hurts your argument, as it sure isn't slower than any other Fuuton we were talking about here.

And no, it did cross the crater. Your point for Naruto's location makes absolutely no sense since he has to be in the crater, but in the crater at the point you made, the explosion of FRS is taking place, so Naruto was behind that, unless you think he tanked FRS and somehow tossed his attack several meters only to be at the end of the explosion. So he has to be somewhere on the left.

Wind Cast Net would

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be quicker than FRS, more so, FRS isn't as fast as you think it is, it was hyped to be fast. That's all, it's feats don't corroborate as I already said. No, because it hurts my argument in terms of the hawk, but it hurts yours because TBB was shown to be slightly slower than FRS in the CT scenario as I already established.

Dude, look again. The green circle shows Naruto and clones in the background [

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]. To his right are the the trees which only exist here and no where else [

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] on the other side of the crater. Here you see the forest behind both pain and Naruto [

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][

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] with the very same mountains and trees behind Naruto as I showed in the first scan [

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]. So again, logically, they would be here [

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], and if you look again at the whole picture, it simply verifies it [

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]. Note that the arows would also make the explosion awkward had it been fired from where you say it was [

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]. Blue arrow would be what happened, purple is what should have happened had it been fired from where you say it was. So my point stands firmly.

1. Minato reacting to something doesn't make it slow, I don't know why anyone would ever claim something like that.

2. In what universe is 100% Kurama's standard Bijuu Dama faster than BM Naruto's? Since when did Kurama being split in half mean his attack got slower?

3. Lol, a rock golem and sand shield were formed from the ground up to block Yasaka Magatama. All that means is that they form fast enough. I don't know why you thought that this was evidence that its slow, but its not. "Massive" and "Large Amounts" aren't descriptions that are helping your argument.

1. It's not like he reacted and Hirashin'd, he made hand seals and extended his hands outwards before the TBB came close. His hand seals being fast because he is is illogical. Not to mention TBB's lack of speed feats. either way, Sasuke's sharingan pre-cog noticing the TBB will allow him to have his bird dodge it given it can go up, down, left and right as much as it wants before and after the TBB, confusing Bee and forcing him to miss given Sasuke's pre-cog.

2. Manga showed that him having more chakra than every other Bijuu allowed him to form TBB much faster. More chakra means faster moulding. I might be wrong doe, Lol.

3. Alright. Matters not since TBB has a lack of speed feats in our discussion as there's nothing to base it off of apart from FRS, which isn't that fast imo.

I don't know why we are stressing so heavily on TBB when Sasuke's Amateratsu ends long before.

 

[ARGUS]

Are you telling me that EMS Sasuke hadn't become faster in the war arc?

Not fast to enough to spout that he will blitz bee that's for sure
Hell he's Not even as fast as bee, so blitzing is absurd

 

[Rizengan01]

Not fast to enough to spout that he will blitz bee that's for sure
Hell he's Not even as fast as bee, so blitzing is absurd

EMS Sasuke is waaaay faster than Killer Bee.

 

[ARGUS]

EMS Sasuke is waaaay faster than Killer Bee.

His reflexes are better but
In terms of shunshin?
No he's not

 

[Rizengan01]

His reflexes are better but
In terms of shunshin?
No he's not

Why do you say that?

 

[Apêx1]

Most important part is the EMS at the end, but feel free to use the rest as a means for his insane speed.

[

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] Sasuke blitzes Deidara, and had it not been for Tobi, he would've been blitzed. [

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][

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][

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]. In these he dodges a massive explosion, blitzes a CM2 user with ease, and goes out of the eye sight of the entire team 7 due to his massive speed, all of which are Hebi Sasuke feats.Note that Deidara only escapes because Sasuke aimed for Tobi who was behind Deidara [

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]

Sasuke outplayed Itachi's hand seal speed even though Kakashi couldn't even see it [

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] and later blitzed a Crow clone [

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].

Sasuke fought Killer Bee while "quite physically affected" from Itachi's fight, as stated by the VIZ chapter of this [

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]. Sasuke said he could easily perceive Bee's speed with the Sharingan, and showed so when he jumped on v1 Bee's back [

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].

He stops Mifune's sword [

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] which is said to be so quick one can't cast jutsu.

Not to mention, Bee's greatest speed feat is stopping Ay's punch, whose striking speed is shown to be slower than Darui's [

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], since his sowrd was way further back. Whose striking speed was shown to be equivalent to Darui's?

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. And what happened the last time Suigetsu attempted to strike? It got stopped immediately by Sasuke's shunshin mid-strike [

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] where he could barely even move his sword.

In the war arc which is the most relevant of the one's I pointed out, his speed is even greater than before. He was portrayed to be faster than KCM Naruto in terms of shunshin here [

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]. Here you can see the distance between Sasuke and Naruto, Naruto is in free fall [

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]. Sasuke sees him and somehow shunshins all the way to Naruto, activates Susano and stops the Jinton [

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], before Minato could even use his Hirashin.... One of the best shunshin feats by far pre Hax power-ups. Not to mention Madara commends his movements [

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], despite never commending anyone else bar Hashirama.

 

[Rizengan01]

Most important part is the EMS at the end, but feel free to use the rest as a means for his insane speed.

[

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] Sasuke blitzes Deidara, and had it not been for Tobi, he would've been blitzed. [

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][

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][

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]. In these he dodges a massive explosion, blitzes a CM2 user with ease, and goes out of the eye sight of the entire team 7 due to his massive speed, all of which are Hebi Sasuke feats.Note that Deidara only escapes because Sasuke aimed for Tobi who was behind Deidara [

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]

Sasuke outplayed Itachi's hand seal speed even though Kakashi couldn't even see it [

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] and later blitzed a Crow clone [

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].

Sasuke fought Killer Bee while "quite physically affected" from Itachi's fight, as stated by the VIZ chapter of this [

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]. Sasuke said he could easily perceive Bee's speed with the Sharingan, and showed so when he jumped on v1 Bee's back [

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].

He stops Mifune's sword [

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] which is said to be so quick one can't cast jutsu.

Not to mention, Bee's greatest speed feat is stopping Ay's punch, whose striking speed is shown to be slower than Darui's [

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], since his sowrd was way further back. Whose striking speed was shown to be equivalent to Darui's?

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. And what happened the last time Suigetsu attempted to strike? It got stopped immediately by Sasuke's shunshin mid-strike [

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] where he could barely even move his sword.

In the war arc which is the most relevant of the one's I pointed out, his speed is even greater than before. He was portrayed to be faster than KCM Naruto in terms of shunshin here [

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]. Here you can see the distance between Sasuke and Naruto, Naruto is in free fall [

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]. Sasuke sees him and somehow shunshins all the way to Naruto, activates Susano and stops the Jinton [

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], before Minato could even use his Hirashin.... One of the best shunshin feats by far pre Hax power-ups. Not to mention Madara commends his movements [

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], despite never commending anyone else bar Hashirama.

Thanks for this

Adding to that above, even though Sasuke was still ailing from his fight against Itachi, Killer Bee never actually outsped Sasuke. Even in his injured condition, he could keep up perfectly (in a matter of speed alone).

 

[ARGUS]

Not to mention, Bee's greatest speed feat is stopping Ay's punch, whose striking speed is shown to be slower than Darui's [

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], since his sowrd was way further back. Whose striking speed was shown to be equivalent to Darui's?

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. And what happened the last time Suigetsu attempted to strike? It got stopped immediately by Sasuke's shunshin mid-strike [

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] where he could barely even move his sword.

@Bold - nope, thiis is just ridiculous
using this stupid logic, i can say that suigetsu can bllitz sasuke since he appeared right infront of him,
and that his striking speed even shits on Ays,
despite Ay having comparable reflexes to Minato, and despite Ays V2 speed completely bltizing sasuke, and outrunning his MS
and By ur logic suigetsu would blitz Ay?? Lol this entire post is filled with wank
and

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, yet he comfortably reacted to EMS sasukes speed despite being blind

by ur logic does that mean that edo madara would also get blitzed by suigetsu, since u stated that his striking speed is superior to Ays? no it doesnt

In the war arc which is the most relevant of the one's I pointed out, his speed is even greater than before. He was portrayed to be faster than KCM Naruto in terms of shunshin here [

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]. Here you can see the distance between Sasuke and Naruto, Naruto is in free fall [

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]. Sasuke sees him and somehow shunshins all the way to Naruto, activates Susano and stops the Jinton [

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], before Minato could even use his Hirashin.... One of the best shunshin feats by far pre Hax power-ups. Not to mention Madara commends his movements [

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], despite never commending anyone else bar Hashirama.

You have got to be joking me, naruto is not even using his shunshin here,
the only thing thats portrayed is that sasukes enton and narutos FRS ATTACKS SPEED are equivalent nothing more nothing less
and Lol since when is freefall considered to be ones speed? this just BS
by this example one could say that sasuke can blitz even juubito since he blocked his attack smh
and lmao sasukes movements are commended, not his speed,
hashiramas speed isnt the highest either, does that automatically make his speed faster than BM Naruto, since madara didnt commend his speed? no it doesnt

 

[KidGamer65]

No, it's like this for every jutsu ever. More chakra is more quantity. Don't see why you are denying it. Sasuke equaled COFRS in chakra with his right eye, no reason he can't expel a similar amount of chakra with his left eye. The user creates Amateratsu as large as what he chooses, if it is what you say it is then Itachi would've covered the entire Cereberus with Amateratsu here [

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], but that's clearly not what happened. Sasuke chooses how much chakra he uses and he does what he did against the Juubi, thus Hachibi dies.

-You mentioning that he used his right eye to do X so he can do Y with his left eye doesn't work here as Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi are not the same jutsu. It doesn't matter if its coming from the same person and the same set of eyes.

-The target, as you can clearly see, was the Cerberus' 2 front heads (As they were directly in Itachi's Line of Sight unlike the other heads) and when they were ignited, its the same relative size, so that only helps me and hurts you, not vice versa.

Never said it wasn't, but that doesn't change how Amaterasu works, which I clearly explained, it doesn't change the fact that just because "More chakra=More quantity" that any amount of chakra can be put into any jutsu to make it any size.

I never said that, I said nothing suggests Amateratsu was used continuously like Sasuke did here [

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], he simply closed his eye because Amateratsu follows what the user is gazing at, thus it fell to the floor. Nothing whatsoever indicates he did what Sasuke did in terms of continuously spawning, let alone him being able to do that to Sasuke's extent.

He didn't do it, and he didn't exert the chakra of a COFRS nor would he have any reason to if he was trying to kill Sasuke, so point is moot.

1. Never said he did, nor is that relevant to my main point.
2. He did continuously spawn it, and every single piece of evidence agrees with that conclusion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Itachi uses Amaterasu.
2. Fireball is spawned.
3. He is still focusing his eye on the Black Flame up until it completely consumes Sasuke's flame.
4. If he had to shut his eye to stop Amaterasu, that means he'd been using it ever since his first casting, so no, that doesn't help you either, it hurts you. Every time Amaterasu has been used, 1 flame has been made and that's it, the user didn't have to shut their eyes or break LoS to stop the flame.

No, that's not true. The Enton's flames are based on how concentrated it is, given that the Raikage would've burned to a crisp here [

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]. It was barely larger than Ay's upper body yet covered the entire Samurai. Clearly it increased in size massively after contact. Not to mention that the Enton flames that covered the FRS after it was eaten where no where near the size of the Juubi from bottom to top, so my point stands. Amateratsu spreads after, it isn't a constant speed from the point is is initiated.

Uh, what? After its completely spawned, in that panel you showed, you can see it and it covers the majority of the Samurai's body, just as it does after he's been hit. So no, it doesn't increase in size.

And yes, they were. FRS has a giant sphere in the middle, so once that contained flame spreads out, it looks like its gotten bigger, but it hasn't, it just spread its actual size out. And that Chou FRS was shown to be near the size of the Juubi's head. [

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] Enton isn't a bomb, there is no reason for it to get larger for no reason at all.

Logically speaking, Amateratsu eating through a doton wouldn't give it more chakra. Futon is no different, Amateratsu/Enton gain no extra chakra from the Futon because it eats away at the very chakra it is composed of, and eating chakra is not absorbing chakra. Thus I said it doubled the Enton in size because of the amount of wind present from the Chakra exerted for the wind itself. It may be less, it may be more, either way it would still be far larger than the Hachibi had it been a 10x increase, which is an unlikely case since Wind and Fire don't work like that.

I know it doesn't gain chakra, but how does that relate to the power increase of a Fuuton and a Katon being used together equaling simple addition? Especially since you are stating that it ate away at the chakra, thus it gains no chakra.

Though, how can you say it gained no chakra at all when it got larger? Regardless, this doesn't tell me your basis for it being 1/2+1/2=1 for the formula of its size increase. You say that they cost equal chakra, so 1/2+1/2=1. Then you come and say that Enton gained no chakra from FRS, so where does the 1/2+1/2 come from if its not coming from chakra?

No, it's clear the mountains I showed weren't far from the trees, yet weren't much larger. Mountains aren't constant sizes in NV, so my point stands that these are large hills. Then again, TBB has no feat to say it is extremely fast to hit a constantly moving hawk at the end of the day.

Uh, no, its not. What's clear is that trees aren't as large as Mountains. What's clear is that they aren't right behind the Mountains, they are farther away, thus seeming smaller. Even then, this doesn't help at all since these Mountains=/=Those Mountains as they relate in any way besides the fact they are both hills/Mountains whatever you want to call them, and if they are only as large as Trees, then crossing over them isn't a good speed feat


And the hawk has nothing that says it moves extremely fast, let alone fast enough to evade Bijuu Dama at the end of the day.

Doesn't matter, I already told you it was for emphasis and that it would be retarded for every character flying to have a supersonic shockwave behind him.

Just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean that characters don't move at that speed. Markings mean nothing. They don't indicate any extreme speed feat unless you have some kind of real comparison to some other fast moving object or person in the verse.

That is my point.

At the end of the day, it's still a feat, and it still portrays it as being fast despite what you say about it not being a feat. It had the trail marks

Which tell me its fast, not that its fast enough to evade Bijuu Dama.

it dodged Danzo's Futon with utmost ease and showed agility while doing so since it went downwards against a dead end

.
Which has never been noted for its speed. Ever.

TBB has nothing indicating it will hit it when it is 30 meters away, from which Minato can form several hand seals and stretch his hands in comfort.

1. Minato reacting to Bijuu Dama and forming hand signs doesn't mean its slow as Minato moves fast. And in comfort? Are these wordings supposed to help your argument? Cause they aren't.

-Kurama charges Bijuu Dama.
-Minato makes hand signs.
-Kurama fires.
-Minato blocks with S/T Barrier.

So yeah, no. What you are stating isn't even true. He didn't form the hand signs and make the barrier as the Bijuu Dama charged toward him.

That's no justification for the TBB's speed which you exaggerated. Hashirama was in the air jumping from rock to rock [

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], and by the time TBB was being prepped, Hashirama was still on the move to the sea. After that, we see Hashirama after the TBB was fired, above the Kyuubi itself [

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]. That's still a partial free fall as he wasn't jumping downwards, his body was in position of a normal jump. Either way, that's still large air resistance from that height, landing, summoning jutsu, all before TBB crossed a few meters. It's no feat whatsoever. Hashirama's shunshin is fast, nothing indicates he propelled chakra from his feat while jumping from rock to rock above the Kyuubi. It's not character reactions, it's you making Hashirama seem like his bodily position was somehow in the stance for downwards movement, even though you can't travel at accelerated speeds in such a stance.

If your Shunshin is fast, your bodily movements need to be fast as well. Some slow guy isn't going to have an impressive Shunshin if he's slow as a snail without it. Unless you want to deny that being able to cross an ocean in a few seconds is fast, then there is nothing to argue about here.

And lol, it is character reactions. He jumped, landed and summoned because he was fast enough to do that. That simple.

Based on what?

Based on Bjiuu Dama crossing an ocean in a matter of seconds while FRS did the same, across the CT crater. Based on slower Pain evading FRS while Hashirama had to block and redirect Bijuu Dama.

No, the bird isn't this slow poke you are making him seem. Sasuke would have had no reason to use it as a means of travelling had he been able to jog faster than it.. Lol Look, the bird is high, it's moving in an unorthodox manner, and Sasuke is able to aim extremely easily due to his sharingan, not to mention he can take control over it and give it his Sharingan's reaction speed's since he's controlling it. It's movement speed is perfectly fine, no reason to assume Bee can aim at something he can't predict's movements, unless he has a sharingan I don't know of.

Never said that he can jog faster than it, and lol. What? Even if he could move faster than it, what's easier, sitting down on a bird and flying, or jogging many miles. Lol

And no, that isn't how Sharingan control, or any control at all works. He gives it orders, and it reacts at its own speed. Doing that is nothing but a waste of chakra in the end. The bird isn't going to gain reaction speed equal to Sasuke's.

Like I said, being in motion is irrelevant if you are too slow to evade the attack, it all comes down to the aim of the shooter, why in the world would B need to predict movements to hit a moving target? Cause that is exactly what I'm reading here. IRL, people hit moving targets all the time, pretty sure they don't have magic eyes that I'm unaware of.

It was figuratively speaking. Still, exponential decay is part of all explosives, energy doesn't increase the further you go from the origin, it decays exponentially due to it requiring more energy to fill a greater area every second. Nukes are considered inefficient because they are overly powerful in the epicentre and much weaker around the rest of the explosion (not weak but you get the point). Same applies here, Energy decay occurs and the end of the TBB becomes nothing special, definitely not a Kirin level attack.

I know that it does, but Sasuke isn't going to be at the end of the explosion unless he's going to be flying a Mountain's Height over Hachibi, which would be completely ridiculous as he wouldn't be able to properly fight him.

Either way, Bee shooting a TBB when Sasuke is far higher in the air, and the fact that Sasuke is controlling the Hawk's actions with genjutsu all suggests that Sasuke is rather far away from the explosion,

No, no and no.

not to mention he can also jump with his Legged Susano to further get away.

But the hawk dies, which is the point.

Sasuke losing is nothing but a bad joke, as we've seen how a spread out TBB damages and Suigetsu survived despite his chakra making complete contact with the TBB that was passing through him, and it not getting eradicated (unless you suggest he has no chakra), not to mention that the one he used against Taka was a forced TBB explosion in a single direction, which Karin was capable of evading, TBB's regular explosion is no different as both would be considered rapid releases of the mass of kinetic energy within the TBB.

Referring to a Suigetsu is a bad joke as Uncompressed Bijuu Dama<<Normal Bijuu Dama unless you have feats of an Uncompressed Obliterating a Mountain.

Lol, if Karin was capable of surviving on her own, the whole team would have just evaded. The only reason she survived is because of Suigetsu, implying otherwise is laughable.

Bijuu Dama's regular explosion vaporizes Mountains, thus its larger and stronger than what B used on Taka, so mentioning anything that happened there is pointless and in vain.

What? You said he fires it into the ground. How is he seeing him lmao? His entire LoS is blocked and Susano is either in the middle of everyth\ing or behind it. Bee in no way sees anything transpire.

His LoS is blocked during the explosion, not after or before. Bijuu Dama is chakra, so Sharingan isn't seeing through the raw explosion, so making this point is irrelevant if its not debris we are talking about, and manga shows that this debris stuff is fanfic.

1. Wind Cast Net affects a smaller Surface Area than FRS.

2. He was in Base when he got cut, so no, it doesn't need to faster than FRS.

You can't tell what happened in-between those chapters so using it as a means of TBB having no debris production when it logically should doesn't hold. Not to mention he's within the explosion itself so he clearly can't see anything.

In between what chapters?

Page 1-Explosion.
Page 2-Everything is visible.

That simple.

Yeah he can't see anything, during the explosion. Sasuke can't see anything either, and the explosion lasts a second or two, so making that point is irrelevant.

Implying Bijuu Dama is as fast, or that Bee can react to it. Nope.

Um, what? If you meant Sasuke? Not being able to evade on Hawk=/=not being able to react.

No, he dodged no Futon, he simply went behind the mask itself which is easily achievable by going horizontally. Zexion

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Um, meaning he dodged it. Lmao. The Mask fired it, Kakashi was there, then he wasn't. What way he went is irrelevant, he dodged it. AoE wise? No, but we aren't talking AoE wise, we are talking speed wise, and speed is the same all throughout.

Doesn't matter, turning a 180 and throwing someone away before it crosses a few feat when the same person can't make a single seal before Jiraiya's SM kick which is even fruther from where the FRS was in terms of it and Human path isn't impressive. Inb4 Jiraiya is fast. FRS's speed feats are lacking heavily, that Pain is fast, Deva and Ashura are fast. They clearly differ in speed given Animal path has no decent speed and required external help to escape the FRS, so that argument doesn't stand.

That same Pain that Jiraiya kicked blocked all of his attacks when they were in the Smoke Cloud.

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Lol.

Animal Path was on the floor for some odd reason when FRS came, thus it'd be harder to evade. Though I can agree that they differ in speed, though them differing in speed doesn't mean that the ones that dodged FRS aren't fast.

Wind Cast Net would

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be quicker than FRS, more so, FRS isn't as fast as you think it is, it was hyped to be fast. That's all, it's feats don't corroborate as I already said. No, because it hurts my argument in terms of the hawk, but it hurts yours because TBB was shown to be slightly slower than FRS in the CT scenario as I already established.

Is that scan supposed to support Cast Net being faster than FRS? Because it doesn't. It being hyped to be fast while no other Fuuton was hyped is enough to say that FRS>Every other Fuuton when it comes to speed.

@bold:

Secondly, TBB isn't as fast as FRS either, gravitational pull was what made all the attacks move as fast as they did, most likely, all of them reached their maximum momentum given that their spin no longer is what is moving it, but rather the gravitational field as well [x][x]. More so, the way in which the FRS was travelling wasn't the way it would traditionally travel given its position and spin, it would naturally travel in a downward arc, but here the gravity completely nullified that, thus removed the FRS's spin's momentum itself to make its speed based on its own gravitational pull rather than the speed at which it spins like usual. Therefor, TBB working in a straight line and FRS/Yasaka working in a differing way due to their non-spherical structures implies TBB had the speed velocity advantage in a gravity situation, since the other two aren't working in a straight line. Look at it this way, drop a large rock from the sky and it drop downwards extremely quickly, drop a frisbee from the sky which has a mechanical spin (but isn't moving anywhere until you drop it) and it will work with and against gravity, similarly to here. TBB has no notable feats to base its speed off, so it being capable of hitting a bird that is non-stop moving is illogical.

If gravitational pull is the thing defining their speed, then they'd be the exact same speed throughout, thus this can't be used as a determinant of each one's individual speed.

Um? Why would FRS travel in a downward arc when Naruto threw it upwards? And why would the spin's momentum be removed if its still spinning? And how does it spinning around automatically mean that it'd travel faster than a Bijuu Dama? That isn't sound logic. If Juubi's Bijuu Dama and FRS were fired at the same time toward CT (Assuming that the gravitational pull would cause all the jutsu to move at the same speed) would you say that FRS>Juubi's Bijuu Dama in speed? No, showing that this logic you are using doesn't work. FRS's momentum comes from how fast Naruto can throw it, and Bijuu Dama's comes from how fast the Bijuu fires it.

Dude, look again. The green circle shows Naruto and clones in the background [

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]. To his right are the the trees which only exist here and no where else [

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] on the other side of the crater. Here you see the forest behind both pain and Naruto [

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][

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] with the very same mountains and trees behind Naruto as I showed in the first scan [

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]. So again, logically, they would be here [

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], and if you look again at the whole picture, it simply verifies it [

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]. Note that the arows would also make the explosion awkward had it been fired from where you say it was [

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]. Blue arrow would be what happened, purple is what should have happened had it been fired from where you say it was. So my point stands firmly.

The forest exists all along the side of the CT crater, so he could be anywhere from the end of the crater on the left (Which would be ridiculously illogical as that is where the explosion took place) to the end of the forest on the right side of that scan.

-It makes no sense for him to be at the point you say he'll be at when that is where the explosion is? Are you telling me that Naruto threw the FRS several meters head, only for it to explode right in him and Deva's faces? For it NOT to kill them? Lmao.

-There is forest on both horizontal (going by the scan) sides of the crater.

-They were both inside the crater.

Why in the world would the explosion go upward if Naruto fired it from the left end of the crater? Why would it go how it did if he didn't fire from the left end of the crater? What you are saying makes no sense man.

Spoiler

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For the explosion to not catch Naruto and Deva, and for it to explode the way it did, Naruto and Deva have to be located on the other side of the crater, in the red.

1. It's not like he reacted and Hirashin'd, he made hand seals and extended his hands outwards before the TBB came close. His hand seals being fast because he is is illogical. Not to mention TBB's lack of speed feats. either way, Sasuke's sharingan pre-cog noticing the TBB will allow him to have his bird dodge it given it can go up, down, left and right as much as it wants before and after the TBB, confusing Bee and forcing him to miss given Sasuke's pre-cog.

The faster you are, the faster you move, thus the faster your body moves. The better your reactions, the sooner you react. So no, nothing of what I stated is illogical. Him reacting to it, thus making it fast, when Minato has top notch reaction speed is illogical.

Pre Cog doesn't matter if the bird is too slow.

2. Manga showed that him having more chakra than every other Bijuu allowed him to form TBB much faster. More chakra means faster moulding. I might be wrong doe, Lol.

Uh, no, it didn't. More chakra doesn't equal faster molding, nothing supports that.

3. Alright. Matters not since TBB has a lack of speed feats in our discussion as there's nothing to base it off of apart from FRS, which isn't that fast imo.

Which in turn hurts you as FRS is faster than any Fuuton out there.

I don't know why we are stressing so heavily on TBB when Sasuke's Amateratsu ends long before.

That's because it doesn't.

 

[Apêx1]

@Bold - nope, thiis is just ridiculous
using this stupid logic, i can say that suigetsu can bllitz sasuke since he appeared right infront of him,
and that his striking speed even shits on Ays,
despite Ay having comparable reflexes to Minato, and despite Ays V2 speed completely bltizing sasuke, and outrunning his MS
and By ur logic suigetsu would blitz Ay?? Lol this entire post is filled with wank
and

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, yet he comfortably reacted to EMS sasukes speed despite being blind

by ur logic does that mean that edo madara would also get blitzed by suigetsu, since u stated that his striking speed is superior to Ays? no it doesnt




You have got to be joking me, naruto is not even using his shunshin here,
the only thing thats portrayed is that sasukes enton and narutos FRS ATTACKS SPEED are equivalent nothing more nothing less
and Lol since when is freefall considered to be ones speed? this just BS
by this example one could say that sasuke can blitz even juubito since he blocked his attack smh
and lmao sasukes movements are commended, not his speed,
hashiramas speed isnt the highest either, does that automatically make his speed faster than BM Naruto, since madara didnt commend his speed? no it doesnt

And that's why it's not too interesting to debate with you. You're an intense straw man, you misconvey most points made in order to made said person you are replying to look bad, not to mention the Lol, lmao and false analogies. Either way, I'm not here to debate you nor am I in the mood to waste my time debating you since you miscomprehend every point ever made, or simply bring a false analogy which is somehow supposed to counter it. Sasuke's speed feats which I brought forth stand until proven by logical argument rather than fallacious one's.

 

[ARGUS]

And that's why it's not too interesting to debate with you. You're an intense straw man, you misconvey most points made in order to made said person you are replying to look bad, not to mention the Lol, lmao and false analogies. Either way, I'm not here to debate you nor am I in the mood to waste my time debating you since you miscomprehend every point ever made, or simply bring a false analogy which is somehow supposed to counter it. Sasuke's speed feats which I brought forth stand until proven by logical argument rather than fallacious one's.

This is clear evidence that you have ran out of counters,
you did the same to my previous post, you just callled me a straw man,
dude ur post is filled with fanboyism its ridiculous, and i have also countered ur scans and examples,
either concede or just stop posting this BS, dont just say that ''its not too interesting to debate against me'' or that ''im a straw man'' when i concede whenever im wrong,

i have provided a fair reasoning towards your scans, and how the logic ur using is BS,
you stating that suigetsus or daruis striking speed be superior to Ays is just beyond me,

 

[Apêx1]

This is clear evidence that you have ran out of counters,
you did the same to my previous post, you just callled me a straw man,
dude ur post is filled with fanboyism its ridiculous, and i have also countered ur scans and examples,
either concede or just stop posting this BS, dont just say that ''its not too interesting to debate against me'' or that ''im a straw man'' when i concede whenever im wrong,

i have provided a fair reasoning towards your scans, and how the logic ur using is BS,
you stating that suigetsus or daruis striking speed be superior to Ays is just beyond me,

I haven't ran out of counters at all, I can make counters all day to those terrible arguments, but your level of comprehension makes it rather futile when you either change my point to make me look bad (straw man) or simply don't understand in the first place for reason that can only be your fault (low level of comprehension). I ignored your last post because you were technically debating v2 Bee vs EMS Sasuke, laughable if anything, in addition to the fact that you didn't understand how Byakugo's enhanced power works and the fact that you told me to show you scans after having showed you it in 2 or 3 of my posts. Telling me v2 Bee's punch compares to Tsunade and Sakura's punches is nothing but a bad joke. Fanboyism isn't part of my arguments unless I am trolling, if anything you're the one who ignores factual information to support his arguments, whereas I concede rather often.

Darui's hands were behind his neck, Ay's hand was above his head. Darui also carries a sword. Their hands were shown to reach the same position. My 8 year old brother came to the conclusion that Darui's striking speed was slightly faster since his hands were behind his back, and righteously so. You didn't.

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What was shown was shown, ignore it all you want, you can't deny dem manga facts.