Hashirama (the one at VOTE) vs Nagato ( "prime" the fanfiction one)

[KingHashirama]

No doubt normal CT is. Remember this was a near-dying and low on chakra Nagato that made a Kyuubi Sized CT. He even said he would have to make it bigger giving us the assumption that he could have made it bigger even on his death-bed . So a Healthy Prime Fan-Fic Nagato with his Uzumaki Chakra Reserves could make something I would say on par with Buddha, but possibly close or half its size (enough to gather up pieces of the wood from Buddha).

Look at edo tensei Nagato's Edo tensei, not that big either mate.

Even edo nagato cannot create anything close to the buddha's scale to attract the buddha to collpase.

Also Mokuton isn't just "wood" its wood empowered by chakra.

 

[Strict]

Again, Hashirama can melt with the environment, what safes him from being ground between the rubble. He can also use Mokuton as a defense, seeing how Houbi no Jutsu endured the sheer pressure and force of Kyuubi's Bijuudama. If required, Hashirama even increases the layers of this technique. A shell which grants unflappable defense against the force of Kyuubi's Bijuudama, can also endure the pressure of the rocks being ground between. The size of Chibaku Tensei doesn't matter in this case, as Hashirama can create further layers to create an even more stable shell. And then, when being buried and fully protected inside of Chibaku Tensei, he creates a tendril growing in the middle of Chibaku Tensei, absorbing or destroying the core.

 

[DrProof]

Look at edo tensei Nagato's Edo tensei, not that big either mate.

Even edo nagato cannot create anything close to the buddha's scale to attract the buddha to collpase.

Also Mokuton isn't just "wood" its wood empowered by chakra.

Size isn't the problem though, seeing as Size can be made through the gathering of Hashirama's Wood Techniques. The Buddha would still be broken apart because Gravity Defiance > All.

It's Wood lol. I don't see how it being Chakra empowered Wood would change anything

 

[KingHashirama]

There is one thing people are forgetting........ Hashirama can create Kurama sized hands without doing the buddha....... .

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[DrProof]

Again, Hashirama can melt with the environment, what safes him from being ground between the rubble. He can also use Mokuton as a defense, seeing how Houbi no Jutsu endured the sheer pressure and force of Kyuubi's Bijuudama. If required, Hashirama even increases the layers of this technique. A shell which grants unflappable defense against the force of Kyuubi's Bijuudama, can also endure the pressure of the rocks being ground between. The size of Chibaku Tensei doesn't matter in this case, as Hashirama can create further layers to create an even more stable shell. And then, when being buried and fully protected inside of Chibaku Tensei, he creates a tendril growing in the middle of Chibaku Tensei, absorbing or destroying the core.

How does Hashirama melt the Environment? And what does Melting have to do with anything? Haha. And Chibaku Tensei isn't aimed at Hashirama as I previously stated. It's merely for his large-scale Wood Techniques.

 

[Unorthodox]

dr proof is a joke Hashirama neg diff Mokuton spikes destroys Chibaku tensei aswell

 

[DrProof]

dr proof is a joke Hashirama neg diff Mokuton spikes destroys Chibaku tensei aswell

How am I a joke? Why come in here, and even start shit like that bud? I'm just getting answers to my prepositions. Chill out fam'.

 

[DrProof]

There is one thing people are forgetting........ Hashirama can create Kurama sized hands without doing the buddha....... .

You must be registered for see images

 

[Strict]

How does Hashirama melt the Environment? And what does Melting have to do with anything? Haha. And Chibaku Tensei isn't aimed at Hashirama as I previously stated. It's merely for his large-scale Wood Techniques.

Hashirama melts with the environment, what prevents him from being ground between the rubble.

Using Chibaku Tensei to get rid of Hashirama's wood is mere waste of Chakra. Creating the Mokuton again costs nothing for Hashirama, while Chibaku Tensei considerably drains Nagato's Chakra. Chibaku Tensei is a finishing technique, which can't be wasted for nothing.

 

[DrProof]

Hashirama melts with the environment, what prevents him from being ground between the rubble.

Using Chibaku Tensei to get rid of Hashirama's wood is mere waste of Chakra. Creating the Mokuton again costs nothing for Hashirama, while Chibaku Tensei considerably drains Nagato's Chakra. Chibaku Tensei is a finishing technique, which can't be wasted for nothing.

I'm not to knowledgeable regarding Hashirama "melting" as I didn't really read the War-Arc much could you possibly link me a scan bro? And yeah I agree Chibaku Tensei is a finishing move, and it takes a bit of Chakra to perform, but a dying Nagato performed it, so I do believe spamming such could be plausible.

Also, do you think Buddha doesn't cost Hashirama a chunk of Chakra as well? Curious.

 

[KingHashirama]

Well you gotta think. Gravity only destroys solid objects like Earth, and Wood, and shit like that. TBB, and Rasenshuriken aren't Solid Properties or Earth properties I should say.

Yeah that's true Chakra empowers objects. Hm so you propose that since Buddha possibly a huge quantity of Chakra CT wouldn't tear it/allow it to be gravitated slowly to the epicenter?

Gravity requires physical properties, not really solid properties. But you are right Chibaku tensei hasn't been shown to attact anything non-earth related things. However, notice that it has a limit also. And once it reaches a specific size it stops. so even if the chibaku tensei si complete, Hashirama can still easily evade it. And then later on just convert the Chibaku tensei into a Mokuton forest orb.

^^^^^ Now i'm sure you acknowledge Chibaku tensei alot of chakra, and on top of this. You have the thing where Nagato has no clue which one is the real hashirama via wood clone. Reason why this is an issue? Because Hashirama can transmit different power scales to different clones, if a clone did get caught in a jutsu, he simply takes out the chakra from it.

And yes that is my point. For the buddha to be pulled in by the gravity, it requires a bigger gravity orb than any Nagato can make.

The size of one of buddha's arms is about 4-5 mountains. <<<< the strongest chibaku tensei hasn't been that big.


And of course you have the Mayfly ability of mokuton wood clones.

 

[DrProof]

Gravity requires physical properties, not really solid properties. But you are right Chibaku tensei hasn't been shown to attact anything earth related things. However, notice that it has a limit also. And once it reaches a specific size it stops. so even if the chibaku tensei si complete, Hashirama can still easily evade it. And then later on just convert the Chibaku tensei into a Mokuton forest orb.

^^^^^ Now i'm sure you acknowledge Chibaku tensei alot of chakra, and on top of this. You have the thing where Nagato has no clue which one is the real hashirama via wood clone. Reason why this is an issue? Because Hashirama can transmit different power scales to different clones, if a clone did get caught in a jutsu, he simply takes out the chakra from it.

And yes that is my point. For the buddha to be pulled in by the gravity, it requires a bigger gravity orb than any Nagato can make.

The size of one of buddha's arms is about 4-5 mountains. <<<< the strongest chibaku tensei hasn't been that big.


And of course you have the Mayfly ability of mokuton wood clones.

Yeah you're right, but I do believe that Chibaku Tensei would tear some of Buddha up, along with taking some of Hashirama's Large-Scale Wood Techniques along with it. Just to clear the battle field for a few moments so that Nagato could strike with whatever. I agree also on Hashirama making Chibaku Tensei into a Wood/Forest-Orb through Wood Release manipulation which would be inside of the orb (as you already agreed on).

What about a Large-Scale Shinra Tensei which merked the Entirety of Konohakure. You think that would have been a better premise to clear out Hashirama's Wood, and save Chibaku Tensei for later?

 

[Benjamin King]

I've debated this before, Nagato wins.

-Flower Tree World can be sensed via Nagato's sensor which can be powered up by his Rain Technique (you gave him the location of that), and Nagato either flies out of the pollen's range by Deva Path or Summoning Jutsu: Bird via Animal Path. Once he is out of range, he can destroy the flower by shooting Asura Path: Rifles [

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] or can have Gedo Mazou (if not restricted) to destroy it for him. [

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] [

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]

-Mokuton: Mokujin is stalemated and overpowered by Gedo Mazou. It has shock-waves and Raiton that can obliterate at a high AOE, its durability can tank Chouji's full-powered punch, and Naruto's/Kakashi's/Bee's/Ga's combined effort. It's not like Mokujin has any fire-power to begin with.

-Preta Path absorbs most of his Jutsu.

-Shinsuusenju can be destroyed by Chibaku Tensei or Chou Shinra Tensei. Here is why:

• Chibaku Tensei - For one, it has a core which releases a powerful gravity pull. That gravity force was pulling multi-mountains (which makes up the Shinsuusenju's arms). Before the statue would hit the Jutsu, its arms would have already been pulled before it made it, thus it has no fire-power to destroy it.
  
  
• Chou Shinra Tensei - It's a repulsive force operation. So, once it makes contact with the statue, it annihilates it. For one, it is condensed gravity attack. Two, it can be controlled by Nagato as seen
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  .

Other than Ninjutsu battle, Taijutsu are also on his favour. Nagato wins, high diff.

 

[Strict]

I'm not to knowledgeable regarding Hashirama "melting" as I didn't really read the War-Arc much could you possibly link me a scan bro? And yeah I agree Chibaku Tensei is a finishing move, and it takes a bit of Chakra to perform, but a dying Nagato performed it, so I do believe spamming such could be plausible.

Also, do you think Buddha doesn't cost Hashirama a chunk of Chakra as well? Curious.

Those who have Hashirama's cells, can melt with the environment.

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And yeah, Nagato wouldn't get tired of one Chibaku Tensei, seeing how he, besides of that, crushed the village, revived the dead and fought multiple fights, including Naruto. But it's still a Chakra consuming technique, which shouldn't be used recklessly.

Hashirama on the other hand is a Chakra monster. The Buddha wouldn't get him tired, especially as he's using nature chakra to feed it.

 

[KingHashirama]

Yeah you're right, but I do believe that Chibaku Tensei would tear some of Buddha up, along with taking some of Hashirama's Large-Scale Wood Techniques along with it. Just to clear the battle field for a few moments so that Nagato could strike with whatever. I agree also on Hashirama making Chibaku Tensei into a Wood/Forest-Orb through Wood Release manipulation which would be inside of the orb (as you already agreed on).

What about a Large-Scale Shinra Tensei which merked the Entirety of Konohakure. You think that would have been a better premise to clear out Hashirama's Wood, and save Chibaku Tensei for later?

The large scale shinra tensei is only good against people who he can easily beat, or when he has a teammate to hold the opponent down. Otherwise its a take too long, and someone with Hashirama's experience and fighting prowess it'd be too easy to take him out or disturb him.. And plus he has to get in the air first.

And what is he gonna tear from the buddha? just 1 arm? << Thats pretty much all chibaku tensei has shown the ability to do . Also, Mokuton wood is different for specific jutsus. For example the one used in the forest is "weaker" than the one used for the statues.

I've debated this before, Nagato wins.

-Flower Tree World can be sensed via Nagato's sensor which can be powered up by his Rain Technique (you gave him the location of that), and Nagato either flies out of the pollen's range by Deva Path or Summoning Jutsu: Bird via Animal Path. Once he is out of range, he can destroy the flower by shooting Asura Path: Rifles [

You must be registered for see links

] or can have Gedo Mazou (if not restricted) to destroy it for him. [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]

-Mokuton: Mokujin is stalemated and overpowered by Gedo Mazou. It has shock-waves and Raiton that can obliterate at a high AOE, its durability can tank Chouji's full-powered punch, and Naruto's/Kakashi's/Bee's/Ga's combined effort. It's not like Mokujin has any fire-power to begin with.

-Shinsuusenju can be destroyed by Chibaku Tensei or Chou Shinra Tensei. Here is why:

• Chibaku Tensei - For one, it has a core which releases a powerful gravity pull. That gravity force was pulling multi-mountains (which makes up the Shinsuusenju's arms). Before the statue would hit the Jutsu, its arms would have already been pulled before it made it, thus it has no fire-power to destroy it.
  
  
• Chou Shinra Tensei - It's a repulsive force operation. So, once it makes contact with the statue, it annihilates it. For one, it is condensed gravity attack. Two, it can be controlled by Nagato as seen
  You must be registered for see links
  .

Other than Ninjutsu battle, Taijutsu are also on his favour. Nagato wins, high diff.

@Bold, You are making it seem like Hashirama just sits there and watches it.....


1. Lets look at the main stats from what they have shown:
- Ninjutsu= Hashirama > Nagato
- Genjutsu = Hshirama > Nagato
- Fuinjutsu = Hashirama > Nagato
- Experience = Hashirama > Nagato
- Taijutsu = Hashirama > Nagato
- Kenjutsu = Hashirama> nagato
- Strength = Hashirama > Nagato
- Speed = Hashirama > Nagato
- Reactions = Hashirama > Nagato

Nagato isn't superior in any of those categories that are used in a naruto fight.

2. Wood clone by itself can destroy Nagato, without Hashirama having to even mess with Nagato. Wood clones possessed enough power to lead a Juubi's TBB to the ocean via Jukai kouton... Then you have the mayfly ability, allowing the wood clones to merge into the ground or any other enviorment. And not only that Hashirama can change the power between all of his clones.. Good luck to Nagato.... And whats more annoying for him is the fact he won't know who the real Hashirama is.

3. Chibaku tensei is too easy to counter with mokuton

4. Chou shinra tensei only gets him killed.

5. Hashirama can also lock down Nagato via Wood dragon.

 

[Demonic.]

I've debated this before, Nagato wins.

-Flower Tree World can be sensed via Nagato's sensor which can be powered up by his Rain Technique (you gave him the location of that), and Nagato either flies out of the pollen's range by Deva Path or Summoning Jutsu: Bird via Animal Path. Once he is out of range, he can destroy the flower by shooting Asura Path: Rifles [

You must be registered for see links

] or can have Gedo Mazou (if not restricted) to destroy it for him. [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]

-Mokuton: Mokujin is stalemated and overpowered by Gedo Mazou. It has shock-waves and Raiton that can obliterate at a high AOE, its durability can tank Chouji's full-powered punch, and Naruto's/Kakashi's/Bee's/Ga's combined effort. It's not like Mokujin has any fire-power to begin with.

-Shinsuusenju can be destroyed by Chibaku Tensei or Chou Shinra Tensei. Here is why:

• Chibaku Tensei - For one, it has a core which releases a powerful gravity pull. That gravity force was pulling multi-mountains (which makes up the Shinsuusenju's arms). Before the statue would hit the Jutsu, its arms would have already been pulled before it made it, thus it has no fire-power to destroy it.
  
  
• Chou Shinra Tensei - It's a repulsive force operation. So, once it makes contact with the statue, it annihilates it. For one, it is condensed gravity attack. Two, it can be controlled by Nagato as seen
  You must be registered for see links
  .

Other than Ninjutsu battle, Taijutsu are also on his favour. Nagato wins, high diff.

Someone who says Nagato beats a SM Hashirama going all out, yet an EMS Madara without Kurama beats Nagato should not be taken seriously

But anyway,

1. You claim Gedo would overpower Wood Golem

---Gedo won't even get the chance to clash with Wood Golem, Gate of the Great God neutralizes it just like it did a far more powerful version of it, the Juubi, only this time it won't split apart into mini variants

2. Chibaku tensei destroys SS

---More like the other way around, SS destroys the core, easily, then rapes Nagato

 

[DrProof]

You guys think Perfect Jin Gaara could do better than Nagato?

 

[KingHashirama]

You guys think Perfect Jin Gaara could do better than Nagato?

Him going against a person who is built for counter tailed beasts? o-o. I don't see it turning to be good.

Plus, there would be a whole of assumptions on both side. But he could do better than Nagato tho.

 

[DrProof]

Him going against a person who is built for counter tailed beasts? o-o. I don't see it turning to be good.

Plus, there would be a whole of assumptions on both side. But he could do better than Nagato tho.

I just find Sand vs Wood a good match-up imo. But yeah I see Gaara doing way better than Nagato in this Match-up. Gaara's more versatile.

 

[Benjamin King]

Spoiler

Someone who says Nagato beats a SM Hashirama going all out, yet an EMS Madara without Kurama beats Nagato should not be taken seriously

But anyway,

1. You claim Gedo would overpower Wood Golem

---Gedo won't even get the chance to clash with Wood Golem, Gate of the Great God neutralizes it just like it did a far more powerful version of it, the Juubi, only this time it won't split apart into mini variants

2. Chibaku tensei destroys SS

---More like the other way around, SS destroys the core, easily, then rapes Nagato

Same as KingHashirama: where is the refute exactly?

Spoiler

The large scale shinra tensei is only good against people who he can easily beat, or when he has a teammate to hold the opponent down. Otherwise its a take too long, and someone with Hashirama's experience and fighting prowess it'd be too easy to take him out or disturb him.. And plus he has to get in the air first.

And what is he gonna tear from the buddha? just 1 arm? << Thats pretty much all chibaku tensei has shown the ability to do . Also, Mokuton wood is different for specific jutsus. For example the one used in the forest is "weaker" than the one used for the statues.


@Bold, You are making it seem like Hashirama just sits there and watches it.....


1. Lets look at the main stats from what they have shown:
- Ninjutsu= Hashirama > Nagato
- Genjutsu = Hshirama > Nagato
- Fuinjutsu = Hashirama > Nagato
- Experience = Hashirama > Nagato
- Taijutsu = Hashirama > Nagato
- Kenjutsu = Hashirama> nagato
- Strength = Hashirama > Nagato
- Speed = Hashirama > Nagato
- Reactions = Hashirama > Nagato

Nagato isn't superior in any of those categories that are used in a naruto fight.

2. Wood clone by itself can destroy Nagato, without Hashirama having to even mess with Nagato. Wood clones possessed enough power to lead a Juubi's TBB to the ocean via Jukai kouton... Then you have the mayfly ability, allowing the wood clones to merge into the ground or any other enviorment. And not only that Hashirama can change the power between all of his clones.. Good luck to Nagato.... And whats more annoying for him is the fact he won't know who the real Hashirama is.

3. Chibaku tensei is too easy to counter with mokuton

4. Chou shinra tensei only gets him killed.

5. Hashirama can also lock down Nagato via Wood dragon.

So...where is the refute to my points exactly?