Does beating someone with a suicide tech count as a victory?

[KingHashirama]

It's a victory if you're trying to make sure that person dies at all cost.

but then its a victory for the other perosn also. Going back to a draw.

Wrong.

Whatever technique I use, if it kills you in the process, I won the fight. I killed you.

If Sasuke used his last chidory to kill Naruto, but then ran out of chakra and died, would you call that a draw? No. Sasuke won. His technique caused the death of the opponent.

That also, means I just killed you by making you use the technique that REQUIRES your death.

Chidori itself doesn't require death.. 2 different techniques mate.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

No. No it does not. Because 8 gates can't count. Or it will be op

There are many more Op techniques that involve giving up one's own life which are just as deadly, Reaper Death Seal, Deidara's final work of art, etc. The Eight Gates are not in a league of their own when it comes to this matter.

 

[Vapid]

I call that a forced draw.

 

[The Necromancer]

Wrong.

Whatever technique I use, if it kills you in the process, I won the fight. I killed you.

If Sasuke used his last chidory to kill Naruto, but then ran out of chakra and died, would you call that a draw? No. Sasuke won. His technique caused the death of the opponent.

And Naruto's perseverance killed Sasuke. Whoever is dead at the end of the match is the loser. 2 losers. Draw.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

Ok......this conversation got awfully quiet, so who thinks such a scenario would be considered a Pyrrhic victory instead?

 

[The Necromancer]

Ok......this conversation got awfully quiet, so who thinks such a scenario would be considered a Pyrrhic victory instead?

I do. In a hypothetical situation outside of the confines of the manga plotline, dying is losing, therefor a suicide technique is a loss or draw.

It just means the character wasn't powerful enough to win without killing himself.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I do. In a hypothetical situation outside of the confines of the manga plotline, dying is losing, therefor a suicide technique is a loss or draw.

It just means the character wasn't powerful enough to win without killing himself.

As long as the enemy is dead the sacrifice was worth it.

 

[The Necromancer]

As long as the enemy is dead the sacrifice was worth it.

Maybe in a plot oriented scenario. But when comparing two shinobi to determine the better one, it's not.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Maybe in a plot oriented scenario. But when comparing two shinobi to determine the better one, it's not.

That depends,if the enemy is so dangerous letting them live in anyway was not a option then a kamikaze victory is still viable.

 

[The Necromancer]

That depends,if the enemy is so dangerous letting them live in anyway was not a option then a kamikaze victory is still viable.

That is a plot-oriented scenario... :|

 

[Jcub]

This. If it was a win Minato would be #1 on every list.

Suicide techs are a draw.

Depends how its done, its a very epic draw!

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

That is a plot-oriented scenario... :|

How so?The scenario isn't caused by the plot.

 

[The Necromancer]

How so?The scenario isn't caused by the plot.

It's caused by a plot. In these scenarios the combatants are treated as if in a round of Mortal Combat.

Getting the kill at any cost to prevent a greater threat down the road is a plot-oriented motivation. The goal here is to be standing when your opponent is not. That is the only win-scenario.

 

[Ambivalence]

Suicide techniques are a draw. Nothing more to it. You take out your enemy, but only at the cost of your own life. "If i go down, i'm taking you with me.". That's as even as you can get.

This is why i hate seeing "8th Gate Guy vs .....", technically he can never win, only stalemate an opponent.

 

[Eternal Sage]

Suicide techniques are a draw. Nothing more to it. You take out your enemy, but only at the cost of your own life. "If i go down, i'm taking you with me.". That's as even as you can get.

This is why i hate seeing "8th Gate Guy vs .....", technically he can never win, only stalemate an opponent.

Unless it's one of those versus who make it a ridiculous matchup and take away 8th gate's side effects

I saw an 8th gate guy vs goku once :|

 

[The Necromancer]

Unless it's one of those versus who make it a ridiculous matchup and take away 8th gate's side effects

I saw an 8th gate guy vs goku once :|

Lol Krillin could take 8th Gate Gai.

Dragonball Roshi could take 8th Gate Gai. :|

DBZ fanboys overrate DBZ, while DBZ haters severely underrate it. DBZ is the Itachi of the manga world.

 

[Eternal Sage]

Lol Krillin could take 8th Gate Gai.

Dragonball Roshi could take 8th Gate Gai. :|

DBZ fanboys overrate DBZ, while DBZ haters severely underrate it. DBZ is the Itachi of the manga world.

+rep for bolded, I died.

EDIT: Or at least, I'll rep you when the system lets me Lol

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Lol Krillin could take 8th Gate Gai.

Dragonball Roshi could take 8th Gate Gai. :|

DBZ fanboys overrate DBZ, while DBZ haters severely underrate it. DBZ is the Itachi of the manga world.

You must be registered for see images

Take my rep for this post.

 

[Michael]

So, in a top 10 list, I'd put someone above another person if they could defeat them. But does dying just do defeat someone count as a win?

I'm bringing this up because of the top 10 lists with gai in them, even though saying minato/hiruzen > (place example here) because of RDS is another way to put it.

If someone is really stronger than another, they should be able to win without dying

It all depends on who dies first,

 

[Michael]

Lol Krillin could take 8th Gate Gai.

Dragonball Roshi could take 8th Gate Gai. :|

DBZ fanboys overrate DBZ, while DBZ haters severely underrate it. DBZ is the Itachi of the manga world.

Nice, I have seen people say goku can beat Superman(Pre-Crises), i just smh. Goku is indeed in the upper echelon of the anime world, however his faptards can highly overrate him.