[Discussion] Burgess-Ace-Sabo discussion

[Bogard]

2 years prior Burgess = No match for Ace
Current Burgess however was a match for Sabo

1- Does a veteran pirate like Burgess who ate no devil fruit during those 2years suddenly evolved that much in 2years? Or is it Sabo who is much weaker than Ace?

2- Assuming Burgess evolved that much in 2years, does a veteran pirate like Burgess who ate no devil fruit has faster growth rate than a youngster son of pirate king with vast potential(awakening conqueror haki at 10)? Or does it logically mean(like it should) that Burgess would have remained fodder to Ace 2years later?(maybe even widening the gap with his greater potential)

3- So if Burgess would have remained fodder to Ace 2 years later but was a match for Sabo, does it mean Sabo would have been fodder to Ace as well?

4- And considering the new devil fruit eater Sabo held his ground against an admiral(eventhough he was holding back), what does it mean concerning a Ace+2years? Pirate king level?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Maybe he was only no match for Ace because he didn't have CoA.

 

[Souji]

Ace's growth rate was greater than Luffy's. He was a Shichibukai level fighter already, and if he survived, he'd probably be slightly above Admiral level and a true contender for PK post-skip.

He's just gotten the short end of the stick in terms of matchups, which is misinterpreted for weakness.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Ace's growth rate was greater than Luffy's. He was a Shichibukai level fighter already, and if he survived, he'd probably be slightly above Admiral level and a true contender for PK post-skip.

He's just gotten the short end of the stick in terms of matchups, which is misinterpreted for weakness.

He barely improved during 3 years. If he had a good growth rate he would have been admiral level when we first saw him.

 

[Bogard]

Maybe he was only no match for Ace because he didn't have CoA.

The way it was worded, it was in terms of strength, not capacity. When you say someone is no match for another it's how it sounds. Besides, so a veteran pirate like Burgess has no haki, but in 2years he manages to learn haki to the point of being close to stalemate Sabo's possessing admiral level haki? I don't believe it

Ace's growth rate was greater than Luffy's. He was a Shichibukai level fighter already, and if he survived, he'd probably be slightly above Admiral level and a true contender for PK post-skip.

He's just gotten the short end of the stick in terms of matchups, which is misinterpreted for weakness.

He fought someone who scared a yonkou without devil fruit and the current fleet admiral, hardly fair fights

He barely improved during 3 years. If he had a good growth rate he would have been admiral level when we first saw him.

He wasted one of those years to search for Teach. In reality he only had 2 years of fighting/evolution experience in grandline and as a rookie pirate he was already stalemating Jinbe someone who is a match to current Luffy 2 years later

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The way it was worded, it was in terms of strength, not capacity. When you say someone is no match for another it's how it sounds. Besides, so a veteran pirate like Burgess has no haki, but in 2years he manages to learn haki to the point of being close to stalemate Sabo's possessing admiral level haki? I don't believe it
He fought someone who scared a yonkou without devil fruit and the current fleet admiral, hardly fair fights

He wasted one of those years to search for Teach. In reality he only had 2 years of fighting/evolution experience in grandline and as a rookie pirate he was already stalemating Jinbe someone who is a match to current Luffy 2 years later

He didn't stalemate Sabo's Haki; Sabo's was clearly superior. He didn't spend an entire year searching for Teach. Even if he did spend a year doing that he still had 2 years in which he had barely any improvement while Luffy could go from needing his entire crew to beat a Pacifista, to casually one shotting one. We do not know how Shanks was scarred by BB, for all we know Shanks was a weakling back then.

 

[YellowFang]

Without CoA, none would be able to challenge a pro Logia user like Ace...

Burgess is a Hand-to-Hand type so is Sabo... That's why he can give some resistance before getting owned by Sabo...

 

[Bogard]

He didn't stalemate Sabo's Haki; Sabo's was clearly superior. He didn't spend an entire year searching for Teach. Even if he did spend a year doing that he still had 2 years in which he had barely any improvement while Luffy could go from needing his entire crew to beat a Pacifista, to casually one shotting one. We do not know how Shanks was scarred by BB, for all we know Shanks was a weakling back then.

I said close to stalemate. Sabo's haki is stronger yes, but it was only barely stronger not much stronger like in the clash between Doflamingo and Luffy for example. Besides i think even 2years prior Luffy could have beaten the Pacifista alone, but with a lot of difficulty. As for Ace, it's not like you know his real strength when he only lost to ultimate final villain and if you don't know his real strenght, you have no idea concerning his real growth rate. The fact remain however that as a rookie he was already current Luffy/Jinbe level, so that says a lot in his potential growth a year later or so(he stalemated Jinbe during his first year, so he only had 1year at most to improve considering the final year was spent to follow Teach)

 

[-Akuma-]

He barely improved during 3 years. If he had a good growth rate he would have been admiral level when we first saw him.

It's ****ing stupid to assume he didn't improve considering he was improving at the same rate as Luffy while on the Island and when he set out to see and was fighting NW pirates his growth should of been more than when he was fighting wild animals. And it's stupid to say he should of been Admiral level at 19, considering like pretty much every Admiral level fighter is like at-least 30 or older. While WB also basically said Ace had PK level potential.

OT: Burgess wasn't a match for Sabo.

 

[Bogard]

It's ****ing stupid to assume he didn't improve considering he was improving at the same rate as Luffy while on the Island and when he set out to see and was fighting NW pirates his growth should of been more than when he was fighting wild animals. And it's stupid to say he should of been Admiral level at 19, considering like pretty much every Admiral level fighter is like at-least 30 or older. While WB also basically said Ace had PK level potential.

OT: Burgess wasn't a match for Sabo.

Yes he was
1- Showing concerns of Burgess even before the fight started:

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2- Dragon claw stalemated by Burgess' surge elbow(they remain in a standstil position with no one pushing back the other):

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3- Barely breaking through Burgess' haki during the same attack(see above. You even see veins on Sabo's hands/face showing the amount of effort it took during a clash that lasted 4panels)
4- I guess it won't be so easy statement (see above)
5- Sabo can't protect Rebecca while fighting Burgess despite saying before that he will protect her at all cost, sending Bartolomeo to do the job, indicating the pressure Burgess was giving to him:

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In the end, Sabo had to use diversions(by breaking the floor weakened by Burgess attacks) to go and steal the fruit when Burgess and everyone else was confused by his actions. Burgess was a match for him

 

[-Akuma-]

Yes he was
1- Showing concerns of Burgess even before the fight started:

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2- Dragon claw stalemated by Burgess' surge elbow(they remain in a standstil position with no one pushing back the other):

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3- Barely breaking through Burgess' haki during the same attack(see above. You even see veins on Sabo's hands/face showing the amount of effort it took during a clash that lasted 4panels)
4- I guess it won't be so easy statement (see above)
5- Sabo can't protect Rebecca while fighting Burgess despite saying before that he will protect her at all cost, sending Bartolomeo to do the job, indicating the pressure Burgess was giving to him:

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In the end, Sabo had to use diversions(by breaking the floor weakened by Burgess attacks) to go and steal the fruit when Burgess and everyone else was confused by his actions. Burgess was a match for him

No he really wasn't

1- He just noticed that it was Burgess, it didn't really seem like he was concerned about Burgess himself more like a member of the BB pirates is trying to take Ace's DF.

2-They never stalemated it, in fact you could argue that Dragon Claw was much stronger seeing how it's a attack crush limbs while the Surge Elbow is supposed to push you back, while Sabo was not pushed back and Burgess was overpowered in just a couple of panels later.

3- If you go a page back, Sabo veins popped out while preparing the move not due to him struggling to over power Burgess.


4- Again more like Sabo just reacting to the fact that Burgess is apart of the BB pirates seeing how he actually got the Mera Mera rather easily in the end.


5- I don't remember when he said he would protect Rebecca, but yes I doubt Sabo would be able to fight both Burgess and Diamante while trying to steal the DF and prptect Rebecca without quite a bit of pressure.



In the end Sabo didn't really have to use diversion stealing the DF. His priority was to steal the DF, he chose the quickest way to do it.

 

[shon93]

You even see veins on Sabo's hands/face showing the amount of effort it took during a clash that lasted 4panels)

Loll a vein seriously...just too have his hand fix in the position shoulded make a vein show up....u trying to add a pretty bow on top of the fact the Sabo's haki was superior to Burgess haki

 

[sravan]

Ace was stronger but had bad match up's. you can't be admiral level by just training for 2 years stop underrating admirals.He was shichibukai level that's a pretty huge thing for that age.And if he survived by now iam sure he will be admiral level above luffy,doffy,sabo,present rookies.
sabo is superior to Burgess.He choose a simple way to do things.why complicate things if u can do it easily????

 

[Aømine]

God i love how the retarded Ace haters on here count his clash with Akainu as a fight. lmao
They didn't fight and if they did, Ace would have lasted longer than some people think, ofc with a win for Akainu in the end.

You guys should read the panel again. Ace did jump infront of Luffy to proctect him from Akainus attack. And yet people say he got one shotted. Either you guys are brainded or blind and need new glasses.

 

[Gintõki1]

God i love how the retarded Ace haters on here count his clash with Akainu as a fight. lmao
They didn't fight and if they did, Ace would have lasted longer than some people think, ofc with a win for Akainu in the end.

You guys should read the panel again. Ace did jump infront of Luffy to proctect him from Akainus attack. And yet people say he got one shotted. Either you guys are brainded or blind and need new glasses.

Well said dude.

 

[xanonymosx]

burgess is no match for sabo just because somone survived a single clash dsnt mean he is a match zoro pushed fuji back with his slash that dsnt it mean he is admiral lvl (his badassery is beyond yonko lvl though ) ace stopped aokiji`s attack with ease but he is not admiral lvl if sabo and burgess have a full match sabo will mid-diff him (pre mera mera sabo) burgess didnt show any thing beside beating punch of fodders with his elbow

of course pre ts skip is no match for ace , ace is logia and he dsnt know haki even caribou can beat him

imo me ace had the best potentials in op , time or growth rate dsnt matter when it comes to haki it`s a matter of training or awakening ace didnt train to get it (i think it`s oda`s biggest plothole) and he didnt fight somone who can push him to his limit in NW
if ace got the same training luffy got he will be equal to sabo or even stronger

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

Burgess to Ace was like Luffy to Smoker in paradise, while he still was weaker his performance was greatly repressed by his opponent being a logia and him not having a counter to that .

I think while Burgess is waeker he wld pull off a perfomanfe similar to that Sabo wld give vs Ishou in an all out battle(they wld still lose in the respective match ups but not without some moments of their own in the fight).

I don't know why but if pple can say Sabo is admiral lvl for his underdog performance vs Isho shldn't that same scale give the benefit of the doubt to Burgess for a similar portrayal vs Sabo.

Ace ryt now wldnt b that much different coz he was in a place that is already very high in op and being able to at least counter effectively an admiral's attack(signature at that) is a big deal for a Guy still in his Teens give. that an admiral has what? 30 or plus yearsabive him in age and experience(damn these guys where already on the seas when Ace was a baby or even before).

Sabo right now is a smidgit above Ace at his best when he was alive, though considering that Sabo's standard arsenal is haki centric he has more points for that vs Ace's arsenal(which I love coz damn hatorubi n juujuka r awesome attacks).

 

[Forbidden Tale]

It's just that main villains/main character get stronger faster.

It would be no point for Sabo to be a lot weaker than Ace.

Actually, IMO Sabo pre time skip, should already be around same as Ace if not stronger.

Sabo was 10 years (I think 8 if we count only to time skip) on see, Ace for 8 years was sparring with Luffy in the forest and had 2/3 years on the see, some of them with WB. As I said Sabo had 8 + 2/3 years on the see (before Time skip) some of them with Monkey D. Dragon. The two were around equal when they were 10 years old, tho, Ace was slightly stronger, than gap should be lowered during these years and even Sabo should alredy be stronger than Ace, prior to time skip.

 

[A v i]

He's no match for Sabo.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

God i love how the retarded Ace haters on here count his clash with Akainu as a fight. lmao
They didn't fight and if they did, Ace would have lasted longer than some people think, ofc with a win for Akainu in the end.

You guys should read the panel again. Ace did jump infront of Luffy to proctect him from Akainus attack. And yet people say he got one shotted. Either you guys are brainded or blind and need new glasses.

Go to 5:00
[video=youtube;2ECI1otim38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ECI1otim38[/video]
Nothing was stopping Akainu from putting a hole through Ace right there. He could have just killed Ace right there, but he chose to torment him by trying to kill Luffy first.